Fraud at the CDC uncovered

[vintagelover229]

I know there was a HUGE thread a few months back about the topic of vaccinations and some very insightful and educated pricescope members chimed in with very valuable information regarding the science of the topic. I was attacked a few times since I refused to participate much in the thread and assumptions were made about me and my personal beliefs without any info from me and I'd prefer to keep this not about me and my families choices because they really have no baring on this thread or this topic.

However there has been a new development on the studies front and I am curious about PSers thoughts/feelings on the matter. Here is the article
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1164794

Snip from the article
A top researcher at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) played a key role in helping uncover data manipulation by the CDC. This fraud obscured a higher incidence of autism in African-American boys. The whistleblower, Dr. William Thompson, came forward after a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request for original data on an autism study was filed and these highly sensitive documents were received with the assistance of U.S. Representative Darrell Issa, Chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. The CDC documents and discussions with the whistleblower reveal widespread manipulation of scientific data and top-down pressure on CDC scientists to suppress a causal link between the MMR vaccine and later autism diagnosis, particularly in a subset of African-American males who received their immunization “on-time” in accordance with the recommended CDC schedule.


The received documents from the CDC show that in 2003 a 340% increase in autism in African American boys related to the MMR vaccine was discovered and then hidden due to pressure from senior officials. The CDC researchers then recalculated their results by removing a population to get the results that were desired.



I do not plan on participating much in this thread other than reading the posts. Just figured I'd share since it was posted all over facebook and interesting discussions are always known to be had here on the boards especially when it comes to conversational topics such as this one.

 

[momhappy]

This is the first I've seen/read it, so I'm not sure that it's fair to say that it's all over FB, etc…. Perhaps more investigation is needed, but I still feel that the benefits of vaccines outweigh the potential risks/side effects.

 

[Aoife]

http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/cdcwhistleblower.asp

 

[monarch64]

Good old Facebook, the pinnacle of reputable information on the internet.

 

[vintagelover229]

http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/cdcwhistleblower.asp

Thanks for the link! Guess I should research more before posting

 

[momhappy]

http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/cdcwhistleblower.asp

Love, love, love Snopes. Thanks for posting this

 

[diamondseeker2006]

http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/cdcwhistleblower.asp

Thanks for the link! Guess I should research more before posting

I always check Snopes, but I didn't exactly think they proved it was false. It may well be totally false, but if people think the CDC (or any government source) is 100% honest 100% of the time, I'd say they're drinking some koolaid!

 

[vintagelover229]

http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/cdcwhistleblower.asp

Thanks for the link! Guess I should research more before posting

I always check Snopes, but I didn't exactly think they proved it was false. It may well be totally false, but if people think the CDC (or any government source) is 100% honest 100% of the time, I'd say they're drinking some koolaid!

LOL diamondseeker your so so right. Which is sad-but that's the thing history has really taught us is that the truth is stranger than fiction!

 

[JulieN]

LOL

 

[ksinger]

Who needs Snopes, when the original piece gave us all the info we need, although for a decent propaganda piece, it's got it all: Shadowy power figures, conspiracy to suppress knowledge, scholarly links, politicians, and correctly assuming that the credulous reader will not bother to follow any of those links and check them out.

I found this link from the CNN piece, particularly entertaining (since it is the basis of the sensational FRAUD at the CDC!!!! headline after all):

"The peer reviewed analysis of the original CDC data showing a 340% increase in autism in African American boys due to the MMR vaccine can be found here"
http://www.translationalneurodegeneration.com/content/3/1/16

(and yes I checked, and this appears to be a legit journal, although I could still be wrong. But I DID check it out at least.)

If you go there, one of the researchers mentioned right away is one rather infamous Dr. Wakefield, with zero mention even in passing, that the guy has been discredited to the point of being run out of medicine completely - and this is supposedly a new study, not an old one, so they can't say they didn't know about this. So, right out of the gate, I'm unimpressed.

Furthermore, the headline assertion of "340% increase in autism in African American boys due to the MMR vaccine", falls WAY down when you read the discussion section and the conclusion section. In fact, this journal article makes no such claim. While the general public stubbornly insists that correlation is causation, the researchers at least are not making that mistake and don't claim that at all.

And finally, if the CDC is trying to suppress a "340% increase in autism in African American boys due to the MMR vaccine", I'm thinking this easily linked and read study is NOT the study to trot forth as being suppressed. In any case, the discussion and conclusions below:

"The weaknesses of the current study include the age groups selected for autism cases and controls within the original data set. The average age to receive an autism diagnosis has been reported (using the CDC’s Vaccine Safety Datalink) as between 3.7 [29] and 4.2 years of age [30]. However, the CDC’s dataset included controls as young as 3 years of age who could have been “too young” to receive an autism diagnosis. Accordingly, there is a greater than 50% probability that some of the controls could have later received an autism diagnoses, thus skewing the analysis to the null (“no effect”) hypothesis. However, when the analysis was recompleted using controls that were six years of age or older, very similar results were obtained (data not shown). Also, information on the timing of other infant vaccines was not released by the CDC and thus it was impossible to control this factor in the current analysis. In addition, socioeconomic factors were not assessed in the current analysis. Thus, any differences in “healthcare seeking behavior” among individuals vaccinated ontime versus late could not be assessed. (and yes, this is a glaring flaw, IMO)

Conclusions
The present study provides new evidence of a statistically significant relationship between the timing of the first MMR vaccine and autism incidence in African American males. Using a straight-forward, Pearson’s chi-squared analysis on the cohort used in the Destefano et al. [14] (CDC) study, timing of the first MMR vaccine before and after 24 months of age and 36 months of age showed relative risks for autism diagnoses of 1.73 and 3.36, respectively. Future studies should be completed to further evaluate the relationship of first MMR timing and neurodevelopmental maladies, including autism, especially in underserved populations.

Routine childhood vaccination is considered an important public health tool in reducing the morbidity and mortality associated with infectious diseases. However, consideration should be made in the current United States vaccination schedule for genetic subpopulations that may be associated with vaccine adverse events. Additional research is required to better understand the relationship between MMR exposure and autism in African American males."

Furthermore, there is no analysis of autism vs autism spectrum disorders, which hopefully most of us know by now, is pretty dang broad. So broad in fact, that the DSM V, controversial in its own right, has dropped Asperger's . You've got to wonder how the 340% study would pan out now that Asperger's no longer falls under the autism umbrella.

It also does not even dare to whisper any speculation as to how much of the current slew of diagnoses of autism is being driven by improperly or untrained docs making the diagnosis du jour type of call, or by parents eager to get a diagnosis so their child can obtain additional services in the schools that they could otherwise not get. And yes, it happens. And no, I'm not saying autism isn't real, or that all parents are doing this, just in case anyone wants to flame in.

(Oh, and maybe a statistics guru can chime in on whether the study in general is decent (I am admittedly unqualified in that, and usually just key in on the conclusions) and on how that 340% number- which is nowhere in the study, is derived. I'd really like to know how the article writer got that number....)

So from my reading, the usual non-bombshell mushy study, that admittedly has weaknesses, addressed and unaddressed, does not draw any hard causal-type conclusions, and does not in any way support the hyperbolic and near-hysterical headline supposedly based on it, and thus the CDC has the need to suppress precisely ZIP. Which calls even further BS on the so-called whistleblower who said "the CDC knew about the relationship between the age of first MMR vaccine and autism incidence in African-American boys as early as 2003, but chose to cover it up." (And remind me to tell you sometime about the former employee of a friend of mine, who, after he lost his job (yes, feds can and DO get fired) has filed the same FOIA every 6 months for the last 7 YEARS, just to be a dick, and they HAVE to take time and resources to address it by law every.single.time)

 

[partgypsy]

Seems like there are a lot of conspiracy stories floating around that are anti-vaccine. As I work in health care including elderly, and I am a mother of 2, I am concerned about anything that reduces vacinne effectiveness, which is what would happen if people stopped get vaccinated.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertpearl/2014/03/20/a-doctors-take-on-the-anti-vaccine-movement/

 

[katharath]

What scares me is that so many people almost seem to WANT vaccines to be discredited. The particularly rabid antivaccine crowd would be thrilled if a genuine study showed bad effects of vaccines. Then they could scream "we were right!!" to the rooftops. How frightening is that?? Don't we want vaccines to keep doing their jobs and protecting the world from death, disease, disfigurement, etc...?

This issue has become totally out of control. I guess all we can really do is try to control our own lives. My kids are fully vaccinated, so I can say that I've done my part to stop the insanity.

(And btw...my two boys at ages 7 and 10 are the healthiest kids I know, having never been on antibiotics their entire lives, never had an ear infection, no surgeries, etc etc, despite being fully vaccinated on schedule AND being formula fed...the horror!! Lol I guess they are little freaks of nature

 

[partgypsy]

I could be mistaken here, but an earlier paper found a similar finding, and attributed it to : "Rather than concluding that the first MMR vaccine could be playing a causal role in autism in these children, the study authors instead attributed the increased risk to greater numbers of autistic children receiving timely vaccinations in order to participate in State of Georgia special education services." Ta da!

Basically it looks like the method of selection for the autistic group and control group differs.
Children (more likely minority) who want to enroll in State of Georgia early intervention programs, need to be vaccinated before they can be enrolled. It is assumed that these kids are are also getting more testing of their intellectual development, and also that the parents may be more concerned about their development.

In contrast the "Control children were chosen from “regular” education programs and were within the same age group and schools of attendance or neighboring school as cases." The article also mentions the austic group was more likely to be of low birth weight as well.

So for me, I would take this information with a grain of salt due to the sampling issues.

And if it was true, the author does do not give any reason why this relationship would only hold for African American males, but not Black females, or White females, or White males. What is the mechanism? More likely this is due to the sampling issues, that the autism diagnosis (and early vac people) are coming from a sample where the parents are trying to enroll their children in head start program, which means they are both more concerned about their development, and are going to be tested more for developmental disabilities, while the controls were takend from regular education programs.

and I like the title "fraud at the CDC." They actually got the basic data from the CDC! I guess they suck at "supressing data".

 

[momhappy]

What scares me is that so many people almost seem to WANT vaccines to be discredited. The particularly rabid antivaccine crowd would be thrilled if a genuine study showed bad effects of vaccines. Then they could scream "we were right!!" to the rooftops. How frightening is that?? Don't we want vaccines to keep doing their jobs and protecting the world from death, disease, disfigurement, etc...?

This issue has become totally out of control. I guess all we can really do is try to control our own lives. My kids are fully vaccinated, so I can say that I've done my part to stop the insanity.

(And btw...my two boys at ages 7 and 10 are the healthiest kids I know, having never been on antibiotics their entire lives, never had an ear infection, no surgeries, etc etc, despite being fully vaccinated on schedule AND being formula fed...the horror!! Lol I guess they are little freaks of nature

Nope, not freaks of nature - two fully vaccinated kids here and they've only been on antibiotics a few times (within a 10-year span) - knock on wood I agree with you about your first paragraph - it seems as though the anti-vaxxers would looooove it if vaccines were discredited. Sad but true

 

[distracts]

While I am fully pro-vaccine, I can kiiiind of understand the anti-vaxxer movement if people are really worried about those things (there's no reason to be, but people are crazy). The thing I don't get is this new bizarre offshoot where people are saying things like you don't ever need medicine and as long as you eat organic food you will never get sick (their babies won't get sick because breastmilk is totally organic!). These people must have missed a history class or two at school because, uh. For most of history people have 1) eaten organic foods (by the modern definition anyway), and 2) died in droves from diseases that are now treatable.

 

[Laila619]

I'm all for life-saving vaccines, but I really think they should be spaced out more. For a 2 month old baby to get 4+ vaccines at once? Absolutely ridiculous. My kids are vaccinated but we are spacing them out a bit, to allow their tiny bodies to process the aluminum, formaldehyde, etc. a bit more effectively. It's NEVER a bad thing to question authority and to not just blindly listen to whatever a doctor tells us. A newborn baby one hour old born to a Hep B negative mother does not need a Hep B vaccine. Completely silly. It's scary how much blind faith some people put in their doctors and the CDC.

 

[partgypsy]

i'm a scientist so I don't see it as blind faith. I see it as evidence-based medicine.

 

[momhappy]

I'm all for life-saving vaccines, but I really think they should be spaced out more. For a 2 month old baby to get 4+ vaccines at once? Absolutely ridiculous. My kids are vaccinated but we are spacing them out a bit, to allow their tiny bodies to process the aluminum, formaldehyde, etc. a bit more effectively. It's NEVER a bad thing to question authority and to not just blindly listen to whatever a doctor tells us. A newborn baby one hour old born to a Hep B negative mother does not need a Hep B vaccine. Completely silly. It's scary how much blind faith some people put in their doctors and the CDC.

I agree and after speaking with my pediatrician (when my kids were much younger), we both agreed that spacing the vaccines out was a good idea. It meant having to go in for vaccines more frequently, but I think that it was worth it. I question the Hep B vaccine right after birth too - not necessary at that age, although at the time, I didn't know any better and my babies had the vaccine. I did so much research & prep before my babies were born, but somehow, the Hep B at birth vaccine was completely off my radar, so when they informed DH and I about it in the hospital (as though it was the norm), we reluctantly agreed. In hindsight, I would have spaced out that vaccine too.

 

[distracts]

Spacing out vaccines is fine for people who are responsible enough to bring their kids back in for the rest of the vaccines. MOST people are not that responsible or don't have that much time/aren't willing to make the time. So it's much better for the majority of people to get them all at once than to not get them until the kid is going to go into kindergarten.

 

[msop04]

What scares me is that so many people almost seem to WANT vaccines to be discredited. The particularly rabid antivaccine crowd would be thrilled if a genuine study showed bad effects of vaccines. Then they could scream "we were right!!" to the rooftops. How frightening is that?? Don't we want vaccines to keep doing their jobs and protecting the world from death, disease, disfigurement, etc...?

This issue has become totally out of control. I guess all we can really do is try to control our own lives. My kids are fully vaccinated, so I can say that I've done my part to stop the insanity.

(And btw...my two boys at ages 7 and 10 are the healthiest kids I know, having never been on antibiotics their entire lives, never had an ear infection, no surgeries, etc etc, despite being fully vaccinated on schedule AND being formula fed...the horror!! Lol I guess they are little freaks of nature

I'm with you, katharath... it really does seem like people want to discredit vaccines. I think a lot of that mentality coincides with our society wanting to play the blame game when it comes to conditions such as autism. People like to think that they can have more control where their children's health is concerned. Also, we have to consider that a lot of the reason there are so many more cases of autism is bc it wasn't a known condition until relatively recently -- same with ADD/ADHD, bipolar disorder, and depression. It gets a lot of press as well...

 

[msop04]

Made me think of this, as I feel many doctors incorrectly {over}diagnose children... most of the time at the parents' urging...

 

[Laila619]

i'm a scientist so I don't see it as blind faith. I see it as evidence-based medicine.

Okay, so can you please explain to me why a newborn baby born to a Hep B negative mother would need a Hep B vaccine? I am not asking to be snarky, I am genuinely puzzled. This is SOP not because research proves it's needed, but because doctors just assume mothers don't know whether they are Hep B positive or not, or they are lying about their status, so "just vaccinate 'em all" for convenience sake.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I'm all for life-saving vaccines, but I really think they should be spaced out more. For a 2 month old baby to get 4+ vaccines at once? Absolutely ridiculous. My kids are vaccinated but we are spacing them out a bit, to allow their tiny bodies to process the aluminum, formaldehyde, etc. a bit more effectively. It's NEVER a bad thing to question authority and to not just blindly listen to whatever a doctor tells us. A newborn baby one hour old born to a Hep B negative mother does not need a Hep B vaccine. Completely silly. It's scary how much blind faith some people put in their doctors and the CDC.

Yep, I would do the same today. I don't remember my daughters receiving 15 vaccinations? when they were little babies. ...

 

[momhappy]

Spacing out vaccines is fine for people who are responsible enough to bring their kids back in for the rest of the vaccines. MOST people are not that responsible or don't have that much time/aren't willing to make the time. So it's much better for the majority of people to get them all at once than to not get them until the kid is going to go into kindergarten.

I don't think that it's fair to say that "most" people wouldn't follow through with spacing out vaccines. If someone is responsible enough to do their own research, engage their pediatrician in a dialogue about an alternate vaccine schedule, then I think that they are likely responsible enough to follow through and get the required vaccines before kindergarten. It's not that much more time consuming and you have a 5-6 year time span in which to do it. I don't think it's necessarily "better" for the majority to get them all at once - my pediatrician assured me that spacing out vaccines was perfectly fine and he would give me reminders of what vaccines were still needed at each doctor visit (children have annual wellness visits, plus any additional illness visits, so again, there's plenty of opportunity to have vaccines before kindergarten).

 

[Dancing Fire]

Spacing out vaccines is fine for people who are responsible enough to bring their kids back in for the rest of the vaccines. MOST people are not that responsible or don't have that much time/aren't willing to make the time. So it's much better for the majority of people to get them all at once than to not get them until the kid is going to go into kindergarten.

I don't think that it's fair to say that "most" people wouldn't follow through with spacing out vaccines. If someone is responsible enough to do their own research, engage their pediatrician in a dialogue about an alternate vaccine schedule, then I think that they are likely responsible enough to follow through and get the required vaccines before kindergarten. It's not that much more time consuming and you have a 5-6 year time span in which to do it. I don't think it's necessarily "better" for the majority to get them all at once - my pediatrician assured me that spacing out vaccines was perfectly fine and he would give me reminders of what vaccines were still needed at each doctor visit (children have annual wellness visits, plus any additional illness visits, so again, there's plenty of opportunity to have vaccines before kindergarten).

How many vaccines are require before starting kindergarten?

 

[Calliecake]

I have never understood giving multiple vaccines to children on the same day. If your child had a terrible reaction how would you possibly know which vaccine was the problem. I would not let the vet give my puppy multiple vaccines at the same time for that reason.

 

[Laila619]

I have never understood giving multiple vaccines to children on the same day. If your child had a terrible reaction how would you possibly know which vaccine was the problem. I would not let the vet give my puppy multiple vaccines at the same time for that reason.

Yep, it's really kind of bizarre. I guess they just assume most people are fat and lazy and irresponsible parents, so just administer the vaccines all at once so the baby is protected regardless.

 

[packrat]

Spacing out vaccines is fine for people who are responsible enough to bring their kids back in for the rest of the vaccines. MOST people are not that responsible or don't have that much time/aren't willing to make the time. So it's much better for the majority of people to get them all at once than to not get them until the kid is going to go into kindergarten.

Agreed.

I worked at Dr's office for just under eight years and I never had a parent specifically say they wanted to space vaccinations out b/c of x, y, or z. If anything was spaced out it was inadvertently b/c they didn't bring them back. Dr. put off the 12 month shots until 15 months for...I don't remember why. Been too long. I think they have to get another shot at 15 months so rather than shots on two separate occasions, she did the 12 and 15 month ones together. Something like that.

We had to deal w/a lot lot lot of parents that were irritated w/*us* b/c their kid wasn't UTD on immunizations when they'd need the sheet printed for school to enter preschool or TK or Kindergarten. We don't do house calls. Ya gotta bring the kid *here*. So, yeah, now your kid is going to get a bunch at once.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

I have never understood giving multiple vaccines to children on the same day. If your child had a terrible reaction how would you possibly know which vaccine was the problem. I would not let the vet give my puppy multiple vaccines at the same time for that reason.

Yep, it's really kind of bizarre. I guess they just assume most people are fat and lazy and irresponsible parents, so just administer the vaccines all at once so the baby is protected regardless.

No, it isn't a case of assuming that people are lazy. It is a case of the numbers showing that many people actually do neglect to take children to check up and vaccination appointments, that people do stop taking medicine earlier than recommended by doctors or stop taking long term medication. The drop out rate for tuberculosis patients is very high, many people stop taking antibiotics before the full course, etc. Spacing out vaccines means more appointments, which can also be a hardship to people with difficult work schedules or tight finances and increases the chance of the child not getting vaccinated.

The good old conspiracy line of thought would say that doctors and pharma would like to spread them out as much as possible (more appointments) and into as many separate vaccines as possibles (more doses to sell). There must be a reason it isn't so.

I don't have any solid data as to why the Hep B vaccine is given so early but there is one interesting fact: there is a 10% chance of an infected adult becoming chronic, while there is a 90% chance of an infected baby becoming chronic.

 

[Calliecake]

Well I'm beginning to understand my vet making the comment that he wished all children were cared for as well as my dog is.