Diamond colors

the1kayladawn · Aug 23, 2014

Hey guys,

I got a refund on an awful diamond purchase after doing some research, and have decided to go the Blue Nile route.

I have a budget of less than 9000.

Original e-ring was an ideal cut hearts and arrows ring (how "ideal" it was, I am unsure, but it definitely sparkled more than the other two the jeweller tried to replace it with), SI2 G EGL USA cert stone 1.39 carat wait (approx 7 mm)

The reason it was returned, despite being beautiful, was I couldn't stand a big obvious white inclusion poking out from under a claw.

The jeweller traded it for a GIA SI1 G EX EX EX that was WAY TOO DEEP I discovered after some research and scored poorly on HCA.

My dear fiance is distraught and thinks we should have kept the original stone (as he liked how big it was and is discouraged because the last one had ZERO fire.

I have a friend on another forum who has helped me scope some good GIA options on blue nile with better proportions...

She suggested that since fiance is concerned with "spread", I go for an I or J color because I can go a bit bigger and the better cut stones will not show the warmth as much....

What do you guys think? Will I or J face up white if they have good fire and scintillation? She found me a VS2 J 1.40 that scored great on HCA for well in my price range. Is a J a waste of money?

She also found me an I VS1 but a 1.20.

What are your thoughts about I or J colored stones?

Diamond_Hawk · Aug 23, 2014

the1kayladawn|1408767198|3737930 said:
She suggested that since fiance is concerned with "spread", I go for an I or J color because I can go a bit bigger and the better cut stones will not show the warmth as much....

What do you guys think? Will I or J face up white if they have good fire and scintillation? She found me a VS2 J 1.40 that scored great on HCA for well in my price range. Is a J a waste of money?

She also found me an I VS1 but a 1.20.

What are your thoughts about I or J colored stones?

the1Kayladawn,

Here is a chart for your reference:

(thanks Chrono)

Some people who are particularly color sensitive see differences more easily at all levels, other people are less sensitive to differing levels of warmth in the stone. It boils down, of course, to personal preference.

It is true that when a diamond is cut well the better light performance can help the stone to face-up whiter. This is one of the reasons the diamonds are graded table-down so that the true color is perceived without regard to cut. A good HCA score is beneficial, but does not necessarily mean the cut will help the stone face-up with better color. You need more data (in the form of an ASET or IS of the diamond) a quality gemologist report from the vendor and - best option - the ability to see the stone in person.

AprilBaby · Aug 23, 2014

Which is more important to you? Size or color?

Karl_K · Aug 23, 2014

Here is the issue:
Take a well cut I or J color stone and show it to a bunch of people.
Some will say it has no color.
Some will say it has color and I like it.
Some will say it has color and I don't mind it.
Some will say it is off color and I hate it.

Then you take into account there is a very wide range of color in the I and J range and it gets more complicated.
The best answer is a good return policy from a solid company and see for herself.
The I range itself is wider than the d to g range and the J range is even wider.

luvdajules · Aug 23, 2014

Here's an H VS2 1.3 ct , HCA 1.5, no fluoro with the 7.0mm spread and the inclusions are not under the table, to boot (no clouds either).

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5156715-1.30-carat-Round-diamond-H-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=5156715&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

there may be others to consider, but this one popped up at me.

the1kayladawn · Aug 23, 2014

luvdajules|1408816134|3738123 said:
Here's an H VS2 1.3 ct , HCA 1.5, no fluoro with the 7.0mm spread and the inclusions are not under the table, to boot (no clouds either).

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5156715-1.30-carat-Round-diamond-H-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=5156715&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

there may be others to consider, but this one popped up at me.

While this looks awesome, I am in Canada so I also have to pay an additional 10 ish percent on that stone. I wish I could up the budget that much but we are young and just starting out, really.

the1kayladawn · Aug 23, 2014

AprilBaby|1408815598|3738116 said:
Which is more important to you? Size or color?

Well, here's the predicament. I think my hands are quite large, and one carats look funny on me. A 1.20 doesn't look terrible. But 1.00 ct looks like 0.7 on my hand.

luvdajules · Aug 23, 2014

You could offer your budget to B2C and see if they take it, I think you are close enough. Or is your $9k CAD budget for stone and setting, so you need a few hundred leftover for a simple gold setting? In that case, your stone budget is around $7800 USmax? Is that about right?

the1kayladawn · Aug 23, 2014

luvdajules|1408835663|3738273 said:
You could offer your budget to B2C and see if they take it, I think you are close enough. Or is your $9k CAD budget for stone and setting, so you need a few hundred leftover for a simple gold setting? In that case, your stone budget is around $7800 USmax? Is that about right?

9k CAD max for the stone alone is my budget. We kept the semi mount

ame · Aug 23, 2014

I am the aforementioned friend.

I think you've got a few options:

1) up the budget to get the size you want in the quality requirements you want.
2) go down in color to a J to get the size you want in the other quality requirements you want.
3) be ok with about a ~1.2ct to get an H-I color with the quality requirements you want.
4) be ok with it not being eyeclean to get the size and color you want within your budget.

I am only looking at Bluenile Canada to absolve you of import issues, because you're only paying local tax that way. Personally, I would go with a US vendor. I sent you stones from several, James Allen, Brian Gavin I think, and US Blue Nile. I just sent you a different B2C though I think it's a little unlikely that's going to be eye-clean to your standards.

I know you want to be around 1.3cts. But you're talking 1/100s of a mm between a 1.2 and a 1.3. The reason you had some serious spread on that stone you returned is because it was likely cut like crap. I am just relieved you got your money back. If you can get a really well cut stone, you'll get the edge to edge brightness and fire, and it will still look big and magnificent, and if you get it from somewhere with a trade up policy, you can upgrade in a few years.

I didn't think the 1ct size looked all that bad. I don't know that you ever shared your ring size with me.

the1kayladawn · Aug 23, 2014

ame|1408840963|3738305 said:
I am the aforementioned friend. I think you've got a few options:

1) up the budget to get the size you want in the quality requirements you want.
2) go down in color to a J to get the size you want in the other quality requirements you want.
3) be ok with about a ~1.2ct to get an H-I color with the quality requirements you want.
4) be ok with it not being eyeclean to get the size and color you want within your budget.

I am only looking at Bluenile Canada to absolve you of import issues, because you're only paying local tax that way. Personally, I would go with a US vendor. I sent you stones from several, James Allen, Brian Gavin I think, and US Blue Nile. I just sent you a different B2C though I think it's a little unlikely that's going to be eye-clean to your standards.

I know you want to be around 1.3cts. But you're talking 1/100s of a mm between a 1.2 and a 1.3. The reason you had some serious spread on that stone you returned is because it was likely cut like crap. I am just relieved you got your money back. If you can get a really well cut stone, you'll get the edge to edge brightness and fire, and it will still look big and magnificent, and if you get it from somewhere with a trade up policy, you can upgrade in a few years.

I didn't think the 1ct size looked all that bad. I don't know that you ever shared your ring size with me.

Oh ame you found me

I am going to check what the rules would be if I ordered from a US vendor... I think Blue Nile Canada is still importing, but the site just automatically will show me Canadian prices.

I think it might be a situation where a loose stone does not get charged duty but a complete ring does? I wonder if I called somewhere like James Allen they might know from experience shipping to Canada?

My ring size is between 6.75 and 7 depending on swelling.

This is such a hard thing, but I'm glad I have you batting for my team ame

the1kayladawn · Aug 23, 2014

ame|1408840963|3738305 said:
I am the aforementioned friend. I think you've got a few options:

1) up the budget to get the size you want in the quality requirements you want.
2) go down in color to a J to get the size you want in the other quality requirements you want.
3) be ok with about a ~1.2ct to get an H-I color with the quality requirements you want.
4) be ok with it not being eyeclean to get the size and color you want within your budget.

I am only looking at Bluenile Canada to absolve you of import issues, because you're only paying local tax that way. Personally, I would go with a US vendor. I sent you stones from several, James Allen, Brian Gavin I think, and US Blue Nile. I just sent you a different B2C though I think it's a little unlikely that's going to be eye-clean to your standards.

I know you want to be around 1.3cts. But you're talking 1/100s of a mm between a 1.2 and a 1.3. The reason you had some serious spread on that stone you returned is because it was likely cut like crap. I am just relieved you got your money back. If you can get a really well cut stone, you'll get the edge to edge brightness and fire, and it will still look big and magnificent, and if you get it from somewhere with a trade up policy, you can upgrade in a few years.

I didn't think the 1ct size looked all that bad. I don't know that you ever shared your ring size with me.

Also the SI2 I looked at at Independent Jewellers in Edmonton today, FI and I thought, was eye clean. The plot had twinning wisps but I couldn't see them. Was it the lighting? Would they be more visible in different lighting? Or maybe I'm not that clarity sensitive? Or maybe I need an eye exam??? Hahahah

I haven't really looked at any SI1s yet and been able to see anything. Would it be worth trying an SI1, and sending it back if it looked bad?

kmarla · Aug 23, 2014

Just to clarify, you won't pay duty on diamonds or settings imported to Canada from the U.S. due to the Free Trade Agreement. The only exception would be if a setting or piece of jewellery purchased from the U.S. was actually manufactured outside the U.S., which rarely ever happens, although it did happen to me once with a ring (not a diamond) actually purchased from Blue Nile. You should have no issues purchasing from the Pricescope recommended vendors. You can't avoid paying provincial taxes though. I Wish you the best with your search!

ame · Aug 23, 2014

Confirm with each vendor bec I am sure there have been instances with duties. And search on here as well. See what others in Canada have dealt with.

Every single stone in each clarity grade is GOING to be different. You have to view them to know. Some SI's are great, some are horrible. I've seen some VS2s that weren't eyeclean.

If you go with the Blue Nile ones from Canada, those you can likely get them to send images of before you settle. And they have a good return policy if you're not happy when it arrives. You will want to view it in several lighting conditions to confirm it is in fact eye clean to your standards and you're happy in general.I am only mentioning them as the feasible option because I thought for sure you'd be dealing with import issues and this was a way to avoid that. IF there's no import duties, etc., then by all means, go with someone from the US: GOG, HPD, BGD, JA, B2C, whatever. Someone who offers REAL IMAGES of the actual stone, we can seriously help you, me and the others. It's worth whatever additional cost it may be to get the best cut quality possible. You can often hide a multitude of issues with ideal cuts.

diamondseeker2006 · Aug 23, 2014

A J is going to show more tint than an I. It all depends on whether size is your #1 priority or not. Personally, in your situation, I would choose the best cut I SI1 I could find within budget. But I would only buy from vendors with magnified photos and idealscope images. I'd need to see the inclusions before buying, and the idealscope shows the cut quality.

ame · Aug 23, 2014

Don't give up a great cut and cleanliness--since that was the point in the first place--just to gain spread. You've been talking about getting your money's worth, and that's the whole point. If you're spending this much money, get the best your money can buy.

OoohShiny · Aug 24, 2014

Karl_K|1408815765|3738119 said:
The I range itself is wider than the d to g range and the J range is even wider.

I didn't know that, thanks for posting the info!

EvangelineG · Aug 24, 2014

kmarla|1408843068|3738318 said:
Just to clarify, you won't pay duty on diamonds or settings imported to Canada from the U.S. due to the Free Trade Agreement. The only exception would be if a setting or piece of jewellery purchased from the U.S. was actually manufactured outside the U.S., which rarely ever happens, although it did happen to me once with a ring (not a diamond) actually purchased from Blue Nile. You should have no issues purchasing from the Pricescope recommended vendors. You can't avoid paying provincial taxes though. I Wish you the best with your search!

+1

You will pay provincial taxes, but not duty. I would not restrict yourself to Bluenile Canada.

the1kayladawn · Aug 24, 2014

ame|1408845594|3738336 said:
Don't give up a great cut and cleanliness--since that was the point in the first place--just to gain spread. You've been talking about getting your money's worth, and that's the whole point. If you're spending this much money, get the best your money can buy.

Here's a photo of a 6.8 mm stone on my hand... (The EGL international that I returned)

I feel it looks small on me. But, I'm sure a fiery stone (this one was dull, deep and hazy) would pack a bigger punch and I would not be so focused on my stupid man hands (Worse when I don't have nails, so that's the other thing haha)

the1kayladawn · Aug 24, 2014

I really think that I want to look for a really amazing stone, and not sacrafice on size. 1.20 is really good in general (the average here seems to be 0.7 ish and a lot of people go smaller even, 1 carat being the ideal size here.... Even though there's oil money in alberta they would rather spend money on trucks and boats haha). So I mean, 1.20 is obviously larger than a 1 carat even though it looks tiny on my hand.....

So what do you guys think. Will I be able to get a killer cut 1.20 for 9000 CAD taxes (5%) in? I think our absolute max would by 9200 taxes in. I am so bad at math. 8600 CAD (7857 AMERICAN) before taxes... Max 8800 CAD (8040 AMERICAN) before taxes...

For some reason I feel like that's really a low budget. =/

the1kayladawn · Aug 24, 2014

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3114536.htm

If whiteflash says it's eye clean.... does that mean I shouldn't be able to see inclusions with the naked eye? Anyone have experience with this? The picture of this SI2 looks cleaner than some of the SI1s I saw on there.

Thoughts?

luvdajules · Aug 24, 2014

Can't go too wrong with an ACA, an eye clean I Si2 is a nice budget saver too. Good find!

ame · Aug 24, 2014

It means by THEIR definition it should be THEIR definition of eye clean, so about a foot away face up is typically how that's defined.

I define eye clean as if it's visible without a loupe, at all, from any distance in any direction period then it's not eye clean.

ame · Aug 24, 2014

If you're going to buy from a US vendor and you're concerned about eye clean I would probably not go si

Karl_K · Aug 24, 2014

WF has their eye clean definition here:
http://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/faq/
9th one down under Whiteflash diamonds.

You can also get a consultation with someone at WF who is viewing the diamond in person.

ame · Aug 25, 2014

Deez · Aug 25, 2014

I'm also in Edmonton and after a LOT of consideration, I bank wired Blue Nile for my stone.

If you have any specific questions about my experience, please ask.

I just insured the loose stone yesterday and submitted it today to my jeweller for setting.

the1kayladawn · Aug 25, 2014

Deez|1409008307|3739222 said:
I'm also in Edmonton and after a LOT of consideration, I bank wired Blue Nile for my stone.

If you have any specific questions about my experience, please ask.

I just insured the loose stone yesterday and submitted it today to my jeweller for setting.

Hi Deez! Congrats on your diamond!

How long did the shipping take? I am also planning to wire whoever we get the stone from the money (I don't know how but how hard can it be). Does BN only provide a photo or if you request a idealscope image can they provide that also?

What were the specs of the stone you got? Did you snoop around locally to get a sense of what you wanted first? I am so nervous of ordering something and not liking it. After rejecting 4 stones (granted they were kind of sketchy and were selected with no research) I am so nervous that I'm NEVER going to have a diamond I will like.

Before finding Pricescope I was convinced I was going to just forget it and get a Moissanite. Haha.

I've been engaged over a month and no ring, ready to just finish it and get something nice with the help of PriceScopers!

ame · Aug 25, 2014

I don't think BN has an IS. But they should provide photos

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