Cushion Spread, Need help finding and selecting one

[jing]

I posted earlier about getting a round brilliant for my girlfriend. However i've changed gears and now i'm searching for cushion cuts. I think i wanted the round when she always wanted a cushion, hahah. I've looked at so many cushions and i'm a little confused about selecting and what to look for. The round brilliants seemed pretty straight forward. Cushion Cuts are difficult. I have no idea what to look for.

Anyways my question is this. I was looking at the BGD Cushion cuts but noticed that the spread of their stones doesn't compare favorably to the carat of the stone. Do these two diamonds essentially have the same spread?

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD03884539
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.260-f-vs1-cushion-diamond-ags-104066027010

Face up will they appear the same size. $6,000.00 difference worth it?

If anyone could help me find a stone it be greatly appreciated. Cushion Cut, 1 carat or greater, 5.80 mm or greater spread, G color or greater, VS2 Clarity or better. My girlfriend doesn't like antique/old mine cuts like the August Vintage or Victor Canera Signature Cushion. $13,500 budget.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[Gypsy]

Can I ask you to read through my posts in this thread here: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-and-looking-for-help-choosing-cushion-cut-diamond-to-oz.205195/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-and-looking-for-help-choosing-cushion-cut-diamond-to-oz.205195/[/URL] (click on the links I post and study them)?

I think this will give you a good foundation to move forward from.

 

[jing]

Gypsy, Thanks for the quick reply. I've actually read it. It has been very helpful

 

[Gypsy]

Regarding the hearts and arrows cushions. I think you are off track there. Your lady wants a cushion. Not a cushion that looks like a round. I think you really want the ideal light return. But she really wants a fancy. I can tell you if I said I wanted a modern cushion, I would not be referring to a hearts and arrows cushion. And it sounds like your lady knows what she wants. Hearts and arrows cushions are a good fit for some people, but not for the majority of folks. And no, IMO, the BGD cushion is not worth 6k more. But that's what's important. I don't think you should buy a hearts and arrows cushion period.

I think you need to look into regular cushions. Hearts and arrows cushions are kinda like you imposing your will on her choice. Not a good idea.

And regarding spread. ALL cushions are going to be underwhelming in terms of spread compared to a rounds of the same carat weight. That's just part of it. On the plus side the cost less per carat, so you can get close to the same spread as a round, but going up in carat weight.

Please understand cushions are not like rounds. A one carat cushion will not always face up at Xmm. You have to look at the spread.

Please read and study the links I posted for you earlier. And I will look for some nice cushions for you.

 

[jing]

Thanks Gypsy, appreciate the response. She actually likes the hearts and arrows pattern, she just doesn't like it in a round, go figure, haha. She prefers the hearts and arrows pattern, then a modern cut cushion. I was talking to someone about cushion brilliant versus cushion modified and which has the best light return, but i'm guess it depends. She really dislikes antique cut cushions. I asked her. I really, really, appreciate you help. thanks again

 

[Gypsy]

OK Good information. If she's okay with it, then great. I would stick to the BN Signature line then and go up to a 1.3 carat or so diamond in budget.

Assuming you are okay buying the stone and setting separate (I don't recommend any of the B2C diamond settings) here is what I would be looking at:

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-6219329-1.50-carat-Cushion-diamond-G-color-VVS2-clarity.aspx Love this one, please put on hold if you like it too. 6.71x6.49x4.53

Or one of these:
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4635003-1.70-carat-Cushion-diamond-E-color-VS2-clarity.aspx 7.02x6.79x4.69
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-6219007-1.70-carat-Cushion-diamond-F-color-VS2-clarity.aspx 7.01x6.72x4.73

The bottom two have strong fluorescence, so they would have to be screened by the gemologist to make sure they aren't over blue. And you would want to check with your lady to see if she likes fluorescence or not (I, and many PSers, love it, personally).

The 1.5 carat I posted first though, is the strongest performer. It's also budget friendly. And it is a G VVS stone. I think she would probably flip head over heels for it.

What type of setting does she want?

 

[jing]

Thanks Gypsy, I saw the ASET on the first one and it looks really nice. The more red the better right? Question, the cut grade is "very good". should i be concerned?

Also, she's pretty anti fluorescence. so the second two stones probably wouldn't fly. regarding the BN signature stones, how do they perform?

 

[jing]

just realized it's because of the symmetry.

 

[jing]

The Brian Gavin Legera Pave Setting was the one she likes.

 

[Gypsy]

Thanks Gypsy, I saw the ASET on the first one and it looks really nice. The more red the better right? Question, the cut grade is "very good". should i be concerned?

Also, she's pretty anti fluorescence. so the second two stones probably wouldn't fly. regarding the BN signature stones, how do they perform?

The more red the better is fairly accurate.

As for the cut grade. The cut grade on that stone isn't very good. GIA does not grade cushions for cut. Only AGS does and only for a select number of (usually branded) cushions.

The "very good" is an arbitrary vendor rating the B2C assigns for whatever reason with their own criteria. You can safely ignore ALL vendor ratings of fancy stones with GIA lab reports, unless their grades are based on performance factors like light performance based on various tools that measure that.

The cut on that stone is very nice and the performance is excellent.

As for how BN Signature Hearts and Arrows stones perform: very VERY well. There have been a couple that people have bought and taken to get ASETs of through appraisers and the ASETs have been impressive. On par with the ASETs from BGD.

I would ask your lady if she would prefer a larger stone with modern cushion faceting 6.71x6.49 with excellent light performance. Or a smaller stone with Hearts and Arrows faceting and excellent light performance. I didn't see anything larger than 6mm square in budget at Blue Nile. So either you have to wait to see if they get anything new in that's larger (since you have plenty of room in your budget to get to a nice 1.3) or buy a 6mm stone.

I personally would chose the larger stone. But her choice might be different.
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/pave-and-side-stones/legera-pave-platinum-5861p I love the Legara. It looks like your lady is going for a Novo look. Which is a fabulous look.

 

[jing]

I was looking at the GIA certificate for the diamond you recommended and noticed that there was an "indented natural" face up and face down, however it is a VVS2. Will that be visible?

 

[Gypsy]

Oh my goodness no.

I have a VS1. I can't find my inclusions with a loupe. At VVS you are going to have fun hunting for that puppy even under magnification.

I promise there is no WAY you are ever going to see that even with the best human eyesight possible.

 

[jing]

what do you think about this stone:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.70-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-358930

it seems to fit my parameters. i'm looking for at least two more from james allen because they said they'll provide ASET for up to 3 stones.

 

[jing]

also, I thought about making an appointment to go to tiffany's. i'm not even sure if it's within my budget. are there diamonds and rings really worth the premium?

 

[Gypsy]

what do you think about this stone:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.70-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-358930

it seems to fit my parameters. i'm looking for at least two more from james allen because they said they'll provide ASET for up to 3 stones.

Not going to be a good performer. They do ASET up to three stones. And I can hunt there for you. But... that 1.5 I posted for you is really nice and fits all your desires. Do you just want to see what else is out there?

What is your goal with searching at JA?

 

[jing]

I wanted to keep my options open. I've also been going to local jewelry stores as well. I'm completely over thinking and over analyzing it. I found this option on JA as well but it doesn't appear to be eye clean. What are your thoughts?

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.75-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-357078

 

[Gypsy]

Eyeclean is irrelevant. That sucker is a dead rock.
Please go back and read this thread: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-and-looking-for-help-choosing-cushion-cut-diamond-to-oz.205195/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-and-looking-for-help-choosing-cushion-cut-diamond-to-oz.205195/[/URL] On stone selection. Especially portions below:

Hi,

I am trying to learn too. Gypsy, could you please tell me why his second choice of a stone was not a good choice compared to your choices. I look at the info and it looked good to me as well. You are not discounting the choice because you don't think a D is necessary or vvs1. Its cheaper. If there is no aset, how can you tell.

Annette

Here's my chance to show Gypsy that I'm actually learning, and possibly help you out Annete. AWESOME. I love it when our posters pay it forward

If you look at his second choice:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.20-carat-d-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-357119
A higher color D, higher clarity vvs2, same size (by .01)

and compare to one of Gypsy's stones specifically of equal size: Small edit here. These stones are NOT the same size. They are the same weight. In fact the E stone I picked is larger than the D of similar carat weight. That's why we always say that with fancies you compare spread (dimensions) not weight.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.21-carat-e-color-vs1-clarity-sku-313793

Even tho its an e (one step lower than a d) and vs1 (one step lower than vvs2), it is more expensive by $500

This is because of the facets, i.e. how it was cut. Look carefully at the 360 image...especially when you are at the center. Do you notice how the center of his choice is almost transparent, kind of like crushed ice. The facets are really hard to diferentiate, you can't really tell what the facet arrangement is beyond "chaos" unless you strain t to find some order in there.

Gypsy's choice (above and all others as well) will go dark, bright, dark, bright - you cannot see thru it...thats performance, thats sparkle, and thats a lively diamond rather than a "mushy dead" stone! That's how you can see the diamond is reflecting the light it is taking in, instead of absorbing it. And you want that reflection. You want the diamond to take light in and shoot it back at you.

At the end of the day we with ASET's and Idealscopes we can go a step further than our eye test to grade performance. However with James Allen's 360 images combined with Gypsy's experience...she can analyze several diamonds quickly to determine which will perform best and make recommendation for the 3 comparisons, assuming of course that they are eyeclean. Thats super helpful considering JA only lets you pick 3 to evaluate. I can usually predict based on my familiarity with certain vendors photo set ups what an ASET will look like. So if you see my post above to the poster, you will see I posted an ASET , and that I said that the JA stone 1.07 will ASET out similar to that one. When I am familiar with a photo set up, the way I am at JA, or B2C, or another vendor, I can usually pick a decent diamond out just by watching the images/video. It is a very easy thing to learn, and all it takes is a little time and experience.

Lastly, some other retailers have stones (such as BN's signature line or BGD's hearts and arrows) which they have already provided images and scopes and ASETS etc (still learning the difference haha)- I know there are some others out there as well. If you know how to analyze these images that will also be helpful to grade performance, sparkle, reflectiveness of light - which is what you want in a diamond. Exactly. Some vendors post the ASETs up front. B2C does for some of their stones. GOG does for nearly all their stones. Blue Nile signature doesn't provide ASETs but they do have a G-CAL posted and that evaluates the light return. I really only use it for the cushions. I don't trust it for rounds, and still sort with HCA for those and use the GCAL, instead of a idealscope, since they don't offer those. But I still use the HCA to disqualify for rounds on BN Signature line.

You did great.

Another thing to note is the facet pattern. With fancies (all of them) there is no "ONE" facet pattern like there is with rounds. There are dozens of different facet patterns for cushions, for example. Since you can't know by sight what a facet pattern is when you are starting out, you need to click on the GIA lab report and LOOK at the facet diagram. That way you can see which diamonds the facet diagrams correspond to, and you can see what which ones your eyes prefer:

In the example above:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.20-carat-d-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-357119 This is a modified eight main cushion facet diagram. THis particular diagram gives you a 'crushed ice' facet structure. Most of these are duds.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.21-carat-e-color-vs1-clarity-sku-313793 This modified 4 main facet structure. When you look at the faceting diagram and then look at the stone... you see how crisp the patterning of the stone is? How you can easily see how the faceting corresponds to the diagram? That's what you want. This is a GOOD example of this facet pattern.

But facet pattern is just a SINGLE factor. Here's a BADLY performing cushion with the SAME facet structure of the 1.21 E:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.21-carat-e-color-vs1-clarity-sku-313793 Not very nice right? This is what happens when faceting goes bad.

AND AGAIN, there are MANY MANY facet patterns for cushions: Here one that's similar to princess: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.35-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-348420 It's not going to be a high contrast performer. But probably will ASET out with a lot of consistent green, which is a quieter brightness, but brightness just the same.

Here's a uncommon one: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.50-carat-k-color-vs1-clarity-sku-338117

So, in short. There are many facet patterns for each shape of fancy. Some are more consistently 'good' than others. Pay attention to the facet pattern. Be aware of it, but don't depend on it by itself, as it just not enough. Sometimes it can help you. Sometimes it can't. But you should start to notice if there is a consistent facet pattern you like. So you know what to look for. Or if there is a consistent facet pattern you dislike. But keep in mind, there are good and bad examples of most facet patterns. Don't disqualify a facet pattern from a band example of the type. You might like the facet pattern if you see a good one.

Okay?

 

[Gypsy]

Selection is VERY slim for D-G eyeclean 1.5 or larger and under 13500 with performance worth your time. That's why I posted that B2C stone for you. It's an uncommonly nice stone in a very nice size/color/clarity combo.
Stones with potential:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.51-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-358969
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.52-carat-f-color-si1-clarity-sku-352931 If eyeclean (I was desperate, cause the selection was so poor, so I threw this one in) .

B2C has a fantastic return policy. So does Blue Nile. I suggest you get one of the stones. Then take it shopping person with you. See if you can find anything you like better. That's the best way to do it. If you do find something better, just return the stone.

And yes, you are over thinking it. I think it was too easy and you are feeling unsettled. That B2C stone just fell in you lap. I should have made you work for it. LOL!