Need Help Purchasing First Stone - engagement

[burntskye]

Hi All,

I'm a newbie! This is my first post. I have never purchased valuable piece of jewelry before but am hunting for the perfect stone for an engagement ring. i have elected not to go the diamond route and am instead interested in sapphires and spinels.

My preferences are: a high end, icy colored stone (lavenders, blues, peaches and mint greens - no reds, pinks, yellows or dark hues), precision cut or near precision (round or oval preferred but flexible - no pear, trillian or marquise), untreated, 1-2.5ct, loupe clean sapphire or spinel stone that sparkles like crazy. Price range for the stone is $4k-$7k - would say the most important part of this stone to me is its brilliance, luster and sparkle - i want it to be seen across the room! I am really willing to consider anything if its a perfect stone - i am flexible.

it will be set in a custom simple platinum claw band. possible micro pave diamonds in the shank but not probable. ring finger is a size 10 if that makes a difference. I feel head over heals in love with this below stone but its just too large for everyday wear (forever) and out of my price range. i am drawn to montana sapphires and i do enjoy the silvery aqua blue sapphires that come from there but i havent found the perfect one. i actually love alot of the sapphires and spinels on the Wildfish Gems site - what are your experiences wit them as a vendor?

http://wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/10826/18358

In my research i've read suggestions about going to a jeweler and sourcing the stone that way, others say buy the stone and get it set, go to gem shows, etc. what is the best way to purchase a gemstone of this importance? I dont mind purchasing online and understand/have read the camera issues/tips with capturing colors of stones.

I am looking for thoughts on sapphire/spinel sparkle when compared to that of a diamond - i know cut and other factors have alot to do wiht it, but can a sapphire or spinel really sparkle like a diamond if all factors are perfect? also, what is the best suggestion for finding a high-end stone like i am looking for? keep looking online and searching forums such as these to see what pops up?

Thanks so much for taking the time to read and respond! I really appreciate it!

 

[Acinom]

What a fun hunt!
I have bought colored stones online and did not see them in real life before they were set. It has worked out great but would not recommend it: you should actually see a stone before you buy it as it's the only way to determine what the true color and sparkle is.

Most vendors offer the possibility to view a stone for a couple of days and you can return it no questions asked. If you are in the US I would go this route. You need to pay the full amount upfront but you get it back if the stone is not to your liking.

I have some experience with Wildfish: great customer service but the stones are heavily photoshopped and photographed in disco lighting were they tend to look more attractive then in real life.

There is a list of good vendors here in this section and perhaps experienced PSers can help you find a great stone if you mention your budget.

Gemfix has great montana sapphires, but if you are outside the US they will only sell stones under a certain price threshold or you need to order via the jeweller that makes the setting for you.

For precision cut gems you could try: http://www.precisiongem.com/Gemstones/rapidcart/sapphire.html

I am sure you will find a gorgeous stone

 

[Marlow]

You should check several vendor and compare price and quality. There is no reason to pay 2x, 3x or 4x for the same quality!!!

The vendor is free with the price - and you are free which one you buy.

Check " price per carat" (pct) - total price / weight = pct ( 750 / 1,5 = 500pct)

So you can compare gems with same weight and "quality" and find a few items which are interesting.

 

[burntskye]

Thanks so much for the ideas! I will definitely buy and check before i commit. Thanks again!

 

[pregcurious]

If you are looking for a round sapphire, GemFix has a large inventory of them. (Sapphires tend to be cut to an oval shape because of the rough.)

Gemfix has both a "glamour" shot of the gem alone, and a a handshot that gives you a better idea of the size and color. Here are many lighter colored sapphires (from Montana):
http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_montana.html

There's a nice round one that is just up your alley:

 

[pregcurious]

Dana has 2 icy sapphires available here. Both are well priced:
http://mastercutgems.com/index.php?page=view&cat=301

 

[chrono]

Can you please clarify the following:
1. What do you mean by "high end"?
2. There are good precision and not so good precision cut stones, just as they are good and not so good non-precision cut stones. How fast are you holding on to the precision cut requirement? I ask because this will greatly limit your options.
3. Eye clean is the standard but I can understand wanting loupe clean. Again, how much priority are you putting on this criteria?
4. Heated or unheated?

Coloured stones just do not sparkle like a diamond, especially those that are light and icy. Spinel does a little better compared to sapphires due to the lustre but the trick is in finding one that isn't too dark. No, no matter what, spinel or sapphire will never sparkle like a diamond (no multi-coloured sparkle).

You can run a search on Wildfish yourself here on PS. My caution is that a dark background makes light coloured gemstones look nicer than they do in real life and fancy lighting used during photography also puts the stone on its best foot.

If you are looking for a very small stone (melee sized) or have major time constraints, having a local jeweller source the stone is the best way. Gem shows are a good way to get more exposure to coloured stones (see many different qualities to decide what you like best) because you might think you like A but after seeing 50 stones, decide that you prefer B instead. It also gives you a better feel for current pricing.

Online vendors almost always photograph their stones in the best light/view possible so pick the nicest realistic picture but do not expect the stone to look like that all the time. Sometimes, it is impossible to even make the stone look like the picture, no matter how hard one tries.

 

[Vidalia]

I'm by no means an expert, but it's my understanding that two qualities that result in sapphires and spinels having less "sparkle" than diamonds are (1) refraction and (2) dispersion.
Here's a link that I found to be a straightforward explanation for the layman: http://www.galleries.com/Minerals/property/index.htm.

Of the few gems I've seen, the spinels tended to have more fire than the sapphires. (The sapphires seemed to have more of a glow, which is also lovely, but definitely not the same.) Perhaps that's caused in part by spinels' higher dispersion than sapphires? If memory serves, spinels are also more like diamonds because both are singly refractive.
But even with the higher dispersion and single refraction, spinels won't be mistaken for diamonds.

Hope that's helpful!

 

[Marlow]

Spinel has RI 1,71-1,72 and dispersion 0,020

Corund has 1,762-1,770 and dispersion 0,018........

Spinel is often very clean and gemmy - corundum ( my experience ) esp. when heated (Geuda) not - looks maybe eyeclean but with a microscope you see it.

Same with chrysoberyl - lower RI compared with corundum but they have a nice brillance.

And multicolor sparkle - titanite, demantoid, benitoite, cerussite and sphalerite - o.k. soft or very soft but fire and dispersion!

 

[Niel]

I've always been obsessed with this one for a while. Very icy, but just white. It is heated but I just had to share.
http://www.concavegems.com/detail.cfm?zNum=6558

He has a peach and a lavender one too, all heated though . He often has things he doesn't list though, if you like his cutting might be worth emailing .

 

[Vidalia]

Finewater Gems has a really pretty oval sapphire that's violet colored. The many facets appear to give it lots of sparkle.
Link: http://www.finewatergems.com/sapphire.html

Edited for grammar and to add a photo:

 

[JewelFreak]

As said above, you won't find the brilliance of a diamond in a colored stone. They have other traits that are every bit as appealing (more, to some) but different. If you are near any gem shows, the suggestion to visit one is excellent. You may even fall in love with something you never considered, or a color you hadn't thought of. If you want a diamond's sparkle, though, and color, you should look at fancy colored diamonds. There are many here who will be happy to help you with vendors for those too. The more gems you can see in real life, the better idea you'll get of what you really like & why.

 

[burntskye]

Thanks to everyone who has responded. Sorry for the delay - I didnt realize there were no notifications for responses!

I reached out to Ed with Wildfishgems and he was helpful with a couple of his stones but was unable to provide additional photos or videos and didnt give any other suggestions. I have also reached out to Rogerio with Precision Gemstones (working with him now, very helpful but doesnt certify the stones) and Richard Homer with Concave Gems (deciding how i feel about the concave cut and also doesnt certify the gemstones). They all have items I like but nothing that i cant live without - everything i've found has had one piece of it that makes it not "perfect". I am also a little concerned with setting a stone that is not in a uniform size. I am going with a custom setting but still... do i run the risk of the gemstones not safely setting within a standard prong setting if they are an odd cut/size? Its the cut that i am specifying so i dont run into this problem - main reason i am asking for a precision cut stone but i realize that my assumption of "precision cut" and being "standard" enough to fit comfortably into a custom setting might be off base.

In regards to my previous post for wanting something "high end" and "precision cut" - i just want an extremely clean, sparkly/reflective/refractive well-cut stone around 9mm +/-.

I live in the Tampa area and have also gone to local jewelers and have not found any luck. I cant seem to get away from the standard "inky blue" sapphires that everyone wants to sell me. Even some of the online retailers i've reached out to havent been much help providing additional specs/videos. Its been more of a "what you see is what you get" idea. I am feeling like i have to pull tooth and nail just to get additional info. I didnt imagine this would be so hard!!

I dont want to settle but perhaps my specs are requesting too much? I am not in a rush but have been doing research and reaching out for months with no luck. I have also reached out to retailers for stock that might not be online and have been given the common "everything we have is listed" response. No one wants to help me!

So, I just want an icy stone hard enough for an engagement ring, certified untreated, that has an excellent cut and clarity (brilliant, lusterous, and completely eye clean) and is in the 9mm size range and is between $4k - $7k. I am also ok with stones that are possibly a bit darker (medium dark) as longs as they are bright colored (thinking well cut juicy grape jelly color).

I feel flexible but maybe i am not being that way. I am planning on going to a gem show in Sarasota the first week of September. Any additional advice would be amazing! anyone know any good customer jewelers to source gemstones in the Tampa or surrounding (Orlando) areas? Anyone know any good Southeast gem shows coming up? Also, how do you feel about Concave cut gems? I know they arent for anyone. I cant decide if they are too "different" to want to have forever on my finger. Does this cut reduce the value of the stone?

I am grasping at straws!

Thanks for the help!!

 

[digdeep]

I think you can find what you are looking for, IF you give yourself and the vendors a little bit of room. Often stones are not certified, but are stated as unheated or named origin if the vendor did the cutting and bought the rough. Some vendors will sell the stones as they described it, and offer a refund if it turns up otherwise when you get it certed........at your expense.
I'm confused when you said you are getting a custom setting, but concerned that the stone won't fit? Precision cut is not a size requirement.....it is how the facets are cut (with precision) in the meet points. Your custom setting (done by a reputable vendor) will be tailor made to fit your stone no matter what size/shape it is.
A lot of vendors will not take extra time to photo stones, but some will. Don't take it personally........as mentioned already, stone photography is difficult at best and people who cut could easily spend more time trying to photograph their stones than cutting. IF you are interested in a stone, the best thing to do is order it (with a clear and solid return policy!) and see it in person, That beats gem shows for me........There are many US stone vendors that do a great job........you just need to find what get's your eye. Do not weigh too much on price as you can come in below your amounts with exactly what you want! Good Luck!

 

[chrono]

Vendors do not provide certification for most of their inventory but can send it out to the lab of your choice, which is what you should be asking about. For them to have everything sent out takes a lot of time and money. Just FYI but Richard Homer also does traditional flat faceting; he did so for a pair of amethyst I commissioned him to cut.

If you are going to go with a custom setting, it will be made to fit YOUR stone, so you do not have to worry about depth, girdle and other issues. By holding fast to a specific size, it makes the search more difficult. There is little to no risk of issues with a custom setting route, especially if it is to be prong set. There are many well cut non-precision cut stones that will not pose setting issues. A vast majority of my gemstones are not precision cut but well cut, and fit both standard calibrated settings and custom settings easily.

I couldn't find anything for you because you wanted something super pale and icy. Now that you have opened up your options to include bright medium blue sapphires, it will be a much easier search. Many PSers are more than happy to help look out in your interest if you do not mind sharing the pictures and/or videos of sapphires you are considering. It will be very difficult to find a medium blue 9 mm stone for $7k but let me look around. However, you mentioned grape jelly, so are you looking for purple or blue?

 

[SparkliesLuver]

I know this is larger than what you're looking for, but ... this sure is pretty.

 

[mariedtiger]

How about this one? 3.76 ct, 10.0 x 8.0 x 5.8mm, VS clarity Burmese spinel. http://www.finewatergems.com/spinel.html Good luck with your search!

 

[burntskye]

Vendors do not provide certification for most of their inventory but can send it out to the lab of your choice, which is what you should be asking about. For them to have everything sent out takes a lot of time and money. Just FYI but Richard Homer also does traditional flat faceting; he did so for a pair of amethyst I commissioned him to cut.

If you are going to go with a custom setting, it will be made to fit YOUR stone, so you do not have to worry about depth, girdle and other issues. By holding fast to a specific size, it makes the search more difficult. There is little to no risk of issues with a custom setting route, especially if it is to be prong set. There are many well cut non-precision cut stones that will not pose setting issues. A vast majority of my gemstones are not precision cut but well cut, and fit both standard calibrated settings and custom settings easily.

I couldn't find anything for you because you wanted something super pale and icy. Now that you have opened up your options to include bright medium blue sapphires, it will be a much easier search. Many PSers are more than happy to help look out in your interest if you do not mind sharing the pictures and/or videos of sapphires you are considering. It will be very difficult to find a medium blue 9 mm stone for $7k but let me look around. However, you mentioned grape jelly, so are you looking for purple or blue?

Chrono and DigDeep - thank you so much. I value your options and always seek our your responses when reading posts. It sounds like maybe i am just too nervous about committing and perhaps i should research a gems website, order a stone i like, see it in person, and then return it if necessary? Its not like i am fully committing without seeing anything.

Being new to this, i am only going with what i've read/researched.

Regarding the question of color - what i dont want would be easier to list - no deep greens or blues, no pinks (some pink tone is ok - especially with peaches - but not primary color), no yellow, no brown, and no red. Starting with my favorite and working back, would be the icy peach with flecks of lavender. I would love suggestions of stones by those of you who know what you are looking at.

i also understand better about the setting/custom and dont think i have anything to be worried about there.

thanks again for the guidance.

 

[digdeep]

Here's a potential needle in a haystack..........from atggems.com (whom I have not dealt with)........but their inventory has this listed:

SPINEL MINCO-04-02 3.4600 CUSHION CLEAR $2,082.00 SRI LANKAN - RARE!

a Clear spinel is indeed rare and will sparkle like crazy....... you will need to contact them as there are no photo's (I could find) on the website. I would contact them asap for more info and possible hold if you are interested. There aren't many clear spinel's and this one is nearly 3.5 cts--and it's now on this forum!

PS you can check the box for notifications when there are replies scroll down and lower left of the page in the dark blue frame when you post.

 

[EvangelineG]

Regarding the question of color - what i dont want would be easier to list - no deep greens or blues, no pinks (some pink tone is ok - especially with peaches - but not primary color), no yellow, no brown, and no red. Starting with my favorite and working back, would be the icy peach with flecks of lavender. I would love suggestions of stones by those of you who know what you are looking at.

Icy peach with lavender sounds beautiful. Do you have any inspiration pictures of gems you like?

 

[digdeep]

Here's a potential needle in a haystack..........from atggems.com (whom I have not dealt with)........but their inventory has this listed:

SPINEL MINCO-04-02 3.4600 CUSHION CLEAR $2,082.00 SRI LANKAN - RARE!

a Clear spinel is indeed rare and will sparkle like crazy....... you will need to contact them as there are no photo's (I could find) on the website. I would contact them asap for more info and possible hold if you are interested. There aren't many clear spinel's and this one is nearly 3.5 cts--and it's now on this forum!

PS you can check the box for notifications when there are replies scroll down and lower left of the page in the dark blue frame when you post.

I did find a photo: http://www.atggems.com/Photos_Spinel.htm item B...........altho it looks like there is a window.

 

[burntskye]

Regarding the question of color - what i dont want would be easier to list - no deep greens or blues, no pinks (some pink tone is ok - especially with peaches - but not primary color), no yellow, no brown, and no red. Starting with my favorite and working back, would be the icy peach with flecks of lavender. I would love suggestions of stones by those of you who know what you are looking at.

Icy peach with lavender sounds beautiful. Do you have any inspiration pictures of gems you like?

Thanks! heres the site - i am in love but unfortunately its out of my price range... http://wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/11081/16002

 

[Vidalia]

That wildfish stone is really pretty, burntskye.

What do you think of this spinel (recognizing it's more lavender than your reference stone)? It's approximately 11+mm by 10 mm.


If you'd like, I'll post the link, but given the vendor, folks may already recognize who it's from.

 

[Starzin]

i am drawn to montana sapphires and i do enjoy the silvery aqua blue sapphires that come from there but i havent found the perfect one.

Gemfix appears to have several that fall into that category at the moment http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_montana.html

Check out his spinels too, there are several paler ones particularly #312 and #306

 

[chrono]

What do you think of this spinel (recognizing it's more lavender than your reference stone)? It's approximately 11+mm by 10 mm. If you'd like, I'll post the link, but given the vendor, folks may already recognize who it's from.

This vendor's pictures are always lighter and brighter than what the stone looks like in person, so I would adjust my expectations accordingly.

 

[chrono]

Gemfix appears to have several that fall into that category at the moment http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_montana.html
Check out his spinels too, there are several paler ones particularly #312 and #306

I would add 337 to the list too.

 

[chrono]

Thought you might be interested to see how an icy coloured stone looks like in person (a video comes quite close to the real experience).
http://www.ajsgem.com/fancy-color-sapphire/white-sapphire-4.86-carats.html

 

[burntskye]

Thought you might be interested to see how an icy coloured stone looks like in person (a video comes quite close to the real experience).
http://www.ajsgem.com/fancy-color-sapphire/white-sapphire-4.86-carats.html

Its beautiful! That's exactly what i am going for - just with a light color. Thank you for forwarding.

I think i am going to take the first plunge on the 1.87ct concave cut light purple/violet sapphire by Richard Homer on his site (number 7200 about halfway down the page). I had a hard time choosing between this and the 1.76ct grape stone #7199 but i think that the grape stone might just be too dark once its set. Both are a little smaller than i was originally wanting to go. Thoughts? I really want to see the Concave cut in person. will post photos when i get the stone!

 

[chrono]

Some people describe the look or performance of concave cut gems as "static". There seems to be a distinct love it or hate it camp. Hopefully, you will find this video useful as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8s8-qCJlQ4

 

[digdeep]

Thought you might be interested to see how an icy coloured stone looks like in person (a video comes quite close to the real experience).
http://www.ajsgem.com/fancy-color-sapphire/white-sapphire-4.86-carats.html

Its beautiful! That's exactly what i am going for - just with a light color. Thank you for forwarding.

I think i am going to take the first plunge on the 1.87ct concave cut light purple/violet sapphire by Richard Homer on his site (number 7200 about halfway down the page). I had a hard time choosing between this and the 1.76ct grape stone #7199 but i think that the grape stone might just be too dark once its set. Both are a little smaller than i was originally wanting to go. Thoughts? I really want to see the Concave cut in person. will post photos when i get the stone!

Good for you! That certainly is an attractive color and I think it's a good idea to check it out. I've only seen larger stones with concave cuts, but I will say they do bring another dimension to the stone.......it's not a typical cutting and therefore, not something seen everyday. Please post pic's and your impression when you get it.......