I live in a warzone. Oh wait, no, I'm in St. Louis.

[Karl_K]

What I think we should do is sit in our armchairs and use our broad stroke brushes and paint all cops the same way. It's easier, b/c they're all obviously corrupt and shitholes, so let's call a spade a spade, right? There's so much in the media about the corruption in law enforcement, so it must be true in every department full stop across the board, the whole United States, hell the whole fecking planet. Just like there's so much about gun violence, so all gun owners must be ****holes. And really, there's a lot in the news about black people looting and stealing and doing lord knows what, so that tells me they all are like that.

Get rid of the police. And the military. Problem solved.

I understand your feelings but this is downright unacceptable!
Thanks the dhs grants it is almost any department USA.
A sniper sitting on top of an armored car.

 

[Karl_K]

so is this unacceptable

 

[Karl_K]

so is this:

 

[packrat]

Never said it was acceptable. Pointing out that we aren't there. We aren't in the situation. We don't know what's going on. And the public is getting itself completely rabid over this, which does not help. I can not say with 100% certainty what happened and if what happened was right or wrong given the situation. I was not the officer, I do not have that officers training. I was not the person who was shot, I do not have that person's knowledge. I am also trying to point out that EVERY TIME there is something brought up about law enforcement, the first things out of everyone's mouths is cops are corrupt. Cops suck. Cops are *******s. Cops have too much power. Cops are the lowest of the low. It gets a little old after a while. So I'll just start a new movement. Since the experiences *I've* had w/some people from across the border have not been positive, they ALL are like that. All people of a certain color are bad. Liars, cheaters, stealers, drug dealers. Feck-how about all fat people are lazy and bilking the system b/c the guy a few blocks over is doing *just* that? Why not, the guy a few blocks over is fat and lazy and bilking the system? What we like to do is, pick and choose what we get fired up about. If I were to post something about a black guy who held up a gas station and scream it's getting out of hand, these black people doing all this horrible stuff hooooooo doggies. I'd have people w/pitchforks stabbed into my eye balls in about 2 seconds flat. But I *know* that's not true. So I wouldn't say it. I wouldn't label an entire race b/c of one person's actions. So we're all talking about how horrible and corrupt and evil law enforcement is, rather than what possibly was wrong that *one* specific officer did (of course not being right directly there that very second), which sends what....the correct message to other people? To our kids? who are impressionable? Soooo they're going to be pretty trusting of the cops they see, right? Since we all say how horrible they are? And that makes any potential law enforcement situations they might have to deal with...better? To have that ingrained distrust and disrespect for law enforcement?

I'm about half sick and tired of it. Maybe the cops should only serve and protect SOME people. Would that be better? Everyone else can fend for themselves? Gnashing our teeth and shaking our fists and calling for heads to roll doesn't solve the problem any more than guns pointed at Great Aunt Thelma leaving the local Kmart. You'd think by now we'd know this, but we don't. For whatever reason. It's better to just jump up and start going ballistic, and accusing everyone of everything willy nilly. Let's all be Monday Morning Quarterbacks and see where that gets us.

 

[Gypsy]

I'm about half sick and tired of it. Maybe the cops should only serve and protect SOME people.

Packrat, I've known many great law enforcement officers. I certainly don't police bash. That said, it appears that IN THIS CASE the problem in St. Louis is.. the cops ARE only serving and protecting SOME people. And those people are all white. And that's not acceptable. Also, we have certain liberties. Freedom of press and assembly are two of them. And the cops in St. Louis are are infringing on those rights. And that is not legal. So when cops do things that break the law, rather than uphold it, it's perfectly reasonable to complain about that. And... I think that's all that's happening here. Maybe you do have a particular sensitivity to the issue so this is bothering you a lot, and I can understand that. But I really don't think anyone meant that all cops are bad. Just that the police department at issue here clearly has crossed lines and is acting like they are above the law. And that is upsetting.

 

[packrat]

I do have a sensitivity to this b/c my husband is an officer. He has to deal w/second guessing every day. By regular people in town. By city officials in town. By people in town on FB. Which then spills into people from dang...Uganda or the stinking rainforest, judging everything he does. Every officer deals w/this. Cripes, we went off on a tangent on how LE responded after a fricking BOMB went off, carnage everywhere, and we're off who knows where, Uganda and the rainforest..the outback, Siberia, judging and finding LE lacking, on their responses. Like WE'D have stepped up to the plate and taken care of everything ourselves? I'm pretty sure if we'd all have been able to take care of business, we'd be doing it as our jobs. It's just ridiculous. Is the media choosing what to show/print etc, to make it *look* like certain things are happening? I dunno. I wouldn't put it past them. We need to have our ducks in a row before we go spouting off about stuff we don't know about. Maybe in this case every media person/outlet is completely honest and is sporting a halo. All I've seen so far are the three pictures Karl has posted, and such insane crap on my FB newsfeed I don't know which way is up. This one posts a link to this, that one posts a link to something completely different, this one says "this just in, breaking news" from a media source, and then someone else has "this just in, breaking news" from a different source that says something completely different. I don't live in Ferguson. I didn't happen to be in both the officers shoes and the person who was shot's shoes, to know what happened. I don't know why things have escalated the way they have. Have there been threats against the police department? Armchair warriors threatening LE and their families? Their kids? Threats of full on violence/terrorism? I don't know. What are they reacting to? someone got shot so they start rolling in the cannons and death rays by default?

 

[lulu]

I agree with packrat. We should wait until we have all the facts. I have way more faith in the police than I do in the press.

 

[packrat]

Thank you Lulu.

 

[Karl_K]

All I've seen so far are the three pictures Karl has posted,

I could post a thousand more just like them from all around the country.
It is a fact that police departments around the country are gearing up with military equipment and training.
Who are they going to make war on?
Well the only obvious target is the American people.
That is not acceptable.

 

[packrat]

Well, you're safe in my small town Iowa. And the small towns all around here..and the bigger ones too. JD would know if they were gearing up to make war on America. I would think JD would know if USA LE was making plans to attack the population at large. Unless maybe us small towns aren't invited to the overtaking.

Actually, maybe Iowa in general isn't going to be invited. Maybe we're too laid back and corn fed to be part of the conspiracy.

 

[lulu]

It's unfortunate, Karl, but there are bad guys among us. Always have been, always will be.

 

[Karl_K]

It's unfortunate, Karl, but there are bad guys among us. Always have been, always will be.

But is that a valid reason for this?

 

[Karl_K]

Well, you're safe in my small town Iowa. And the small towns all around here..and the bigger ones too. JD would know if they were gearing up to make war on America. I would think JD would know if USA LE was making plans to attack the population at large. Unless maybe us small towns aren't invited to the overtaking.

Actually, maybe Iowa in general isn't going to be invited. Maybe we're too laid back and corn fed to be part of the conspiracy.

Storm Lake Iowa Police Department
Caiman 6×6 Mine Resistant Armored Personnel Vehicle (MRAP)

 

[packrat]

Have you ever driven on our roads during the winter?

 

[Karl_K]

"WASHINGTON, Iowa- A police vehicle request going to the Washington City Council next week is likely to generate more than the usual amount of interest in the community. That's because Police Chief Greg Goodman is asking for an armored vehicle for his 11-officer department."
http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Washington-Police-Seeking-Surplus-Armored-Vehicle-for-Department-247355391.html

 

[Karl_K]

Police departments in Mason City and Storm Lake also have received MRAPs, as well as sheriffs in Buena Vista, Jasper, Scott and Story counties.

Goodman, for instance, previously received two M-16s plus night vision scopes, helmets and breathing masks through the same program.

Buena Vista County last year picked up a smaller, four-wheeled model called a MaxxPro

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/local/kyle-munson/2014/04/05/munson-heavy-duty-military-equipment-police/7337463/

 

[lulu]

Karl, do I understand you to be saying that our police are out to wage war against us?

 

[packrat]

I asked JD. He said, these towns are rough towns. Our dept doesn't have anything like that b/c we don't need it. We don't have the gangs that some other towns do. Storm Lake in particular has been known as Little Chicago since my mom was little. Shit is BAD there. I myself witnessed an officer pull a gun on someone right in front of the theater there 20 years ago. I won't go there alone, and certainly not w/the kids by myself.

Now, should the shit hit the fan somewhere, Storm Lake now has the capability to take that vehicle there and assist in a vehicle that can withstand weapon fire that a standard squad car can not. Just typing this right now, JD told me of two instances in Iowa where a vehicle like that would have saved many officers lives. Those officers will never come home to their wives and children, quite possibly because they didn't have a vehicle like this to protect them, b/c the bad guy had heavier shit than they did. Not every dept needs one. But one can serve many communities.

And is is wrong for officers to want that protection? Is it wrong for me to want my husband to be protected, should the need arise? maybe it never will, here. But maybe it will 60 miles away from Storm Lake and that department can keep it under control until that vehicle can get there and get close enough to diffuse the situation. I like my husband to have the chance to come home at the end of the day. I'm sure he does too.

The things LE are up against nowadays...gone are the days of yore. Full on artillery hard core fire. Criminals bring on the big guns, LE has to have equipment to go against that. The bad guys ALWAYS have harder shit than the peace officers. Always. You don't bring a knife to a gun fight. Some departments, when they go to serve a warrant, need to basically have SWAT capabilities. For something simple, bc of the type of people they're up against.

We need to remember these things. And put ourselves in others shoes. When we aren't in the profession, we don't know what all is involved. We don't become CSI investigators b/c we watched some shows.

 

[packrat]

Nobody thinks b/c hard drugs and cartels are getting bad maybe we need to be a little proactive in our protection modes? Nobody thinks that b/c of threats of terrorism from other countries maybe we need to be a little proactive in our protection modes? Why do we assume that American LE is out to take over the US? Has someone read a manifesto written by LE departments across the country? Are they having secret underground meetings? Did they advertise punch and pie like Cartman suggests? Is that how they got apparently every LEO involved in this great undertaking of a conspiracy?

If so, well, bully for me, I guess, since I've got an in. I guess *I* get to be part of the new regime by default. Sucks to be you guys.

 

[Dancing Fire]

One thing for sure...If M. Brown was Asian there would of been no national news reports, no looting, no protest, no nothing.

 

[Dancing Fire]

The things LE are up against nowadays...gone are the days of yore. Full on artillery hard core fire. Criminals bring on the big guns, LE has to have equipment to go against that. The bad guys ALWAYS have harder shit than the peace officers. Always. You don't bring a knife to a gun fight. Some departments, when they go to serve a warrant, need to basically have SWAT capabilities. For something simple, bc of the type of people they're up against.

How soon we forget..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1452yvw5RA

 

[AGBF]

Never said it was acceptable. Pointing out that we aren't there. We aren't in the situation. We don't know what's going on. And the public is getting itself completely rabid over this, which does not help.

I disagree with your logic, packrat. If it is not acceptable, and I agree with Storm that IT IS NOT, then it doesn't matter "if we are in the situation" or "if we know what is going on". Unacceptable means unacceptable. And it means the public should be rabid when unacceptable things happen.

AGBF

 

[ame]

These departments have all this equipment mostly because of the 1033 Program. It was made available to "fight the drug war", so now they have it.

Never said it was acceptable. Pointing out that we aren't there. We aren't in the situation. We don't know what's going on.

So you guys aren't, BUT I AM. And there's other locals on this board who are. The media is not giving you all of the facts. Precisely what any reasonable and logical person would expect to happen in such an instance is happening: If he had been a white kid, he would've been labeled "brilliant", and "having a bad day" or a "fit of rebelliousness". But since he's black, now he's a thug, who "Strong armed" a convenience store. IF he did it, BIG IF, at best that was a shoplift. If he was white, he'd have gotten probation. But because he's black, he would probably have gotten time. If you don't keep up on Social Media (Specifically, Twitter) you're missing out on 90% of what's really going on from people who are actually there, right in the middle, and have been the entire time, blow by blow, canister by canister. Fantastic journalists, photojournalists and even government officials, those people are right in the middle of it, sharing it all. Most of the country didn't know a damn thing til Wednesday, with few exceptions, and that's only because WashPo and HuffPo had reporters assaulted and arrested, with the LA Times calling the Chief to tell him how far it had gone. There were serious media blackouts over this, mock that statement all you want. When the treatment of the journalists got out there, it was allll over. This made the world news, front covers of papers in Australia, when most papers and newscasts here didn't even mention it. Hell, the paper where my MIL lives, a MAJOR metropolis, has not mentioned it yet, to this day. NOT ONE TIME. I have my suspicions as to why.

That absolute clusterf!ck of a "press conference" this morning, yknow the one where they painted this young deceased man as a thug and a thief, and refused to answer questions after dropping all these bombshells that they spent six days drafting, the one they didn't inform the commanding officers of any details of, or even the deceased's family or attorneys and never once mentioned the altercation that led to an unarmed man being murdered in broad daylight within 180 seconds with witnesses watching? Yea. That's what happened. They did what they did on purpose. They wanted people caught off guard, and then the Chief ran away into a waiting car and zipped out of there as soon as he could. When the backlash started and the questions were being lobbed even more furiously with everyone poring over the "packets", then they came back later with that "Officer had no idea about the robbery and was about to arrest them for walking in the middle of the street and blocking traffic" line of shit? That's a tiny sidestreet, on a residential block and there was no blocking of any traffic.

I get wanting to stand up for officers because you have family who serve and they put their lives on the line daily, especially in particularly dangerous areas and situations like we have in some areas here. I think we all know and can agree that not all officers or military are bad and there are *******s everywhere. But in this case, the officers and their commanders, across the board, failed to do this right, they went beyond the law's reasonable affords. They did whatever they wanted with no regard for safety, or the law, or the constitution, and are fully responsible for the escalation that occurred. And thankfully the Governor and President agreed, whether the county prosecutor did or not. There is absolutely no excusing the actions.

 

[AGBF]

Thank you for telling us what is actually happening, ame. Without eyes on the ground, how could we know anything?

Deb

 

[Karl_K]

Karl, do I understand you to be saying that our police are out to wage war against us?

It seems that way at times. They certainly are arming up for something.
Just in the closest mid sized city to me it seems like every year the city pays out several million to families of people that were wrongly killed by the police.
Of course the officer is never charged and it is swept under the rug but they still pay out the millions.
nothing changes.
What is wrong with that picture?

 

[Gypsy]

I get wanting to stand up for officers because you have family who serve and they put their lives on the line daily, especially in particularly dangerous areas and situations like we have in some areas here. I think we all know and can agree that not all officers or military are bad and there are *******s everywhere. But in this case, the officers and their commanders, across the board, failed to do this right, they went beyond the law's reasonable affords. They did whatever they wanted with no regard for safety, or the law, or the constitution, and are fully responsible for the escalation that occurred. And thankfully the Governor and President agreed, whether the county prosecutor did or not. There is absolutely no excusing the actions.

And this is it. I know COPS that would condemn this. You can be pro-cop and still condemn the actions of THESE cops.

 

[ame]

Thank you for telling us what is actually happening, ame. Without eyes on the ground, how could we know anything?

Deb

I could not believe my eyes watching it unfold. I actual wept at the crowds for NMOS last night. The tone shift with the new command is absolutely fantastic. But you keep hearing from those who are displeased about all the stuff "still happening." Well, yea, there are still a-holes, and there are people coming here from all over, some with bad intentions, just looking to stir stuff up. There have been several reports of militias coming in and starting altercations, and I've seen plenty of photos of the KKK in full hoods showing up to the protests.

 

[Karl_K]

I get wanting to stand up for officers because you have family who serve and they put their lives on the line daily, especially in particularly dangerous areas and situations like we have in some areas here. I think we all know and can agree that not all officers or military are bad and there are *******s everywhere. But in this case, the officers and their commanders, across the board, failed to do this right, they went beyond the law's reasonable affords. They did whatever they wanted with no regard for safety, or the law, or the constitution, and are fully responsible for the escalation that occurred. And thankfully the Governor and President agreed, whether the county prosecutor did or not. There is absolutely no excusing the actions.

And this is it. I know COPS that would condemn this. You can be pro-cop and still condemn the actions of THESE cops.

Who were using equipment they should not have had in the first place to intimidate people.

 

[ame]

I get wanting to stand up for officers because you have family who serve and they put their lives on the line daily, especially in particularly dangerous areas and situations like we have in some areas here. I think we all know and can agree that not all officers or military are bad and there are *******s everywhere. But in this case, the officers and their commanders, across the board, failed to do this right, they went beyond the law's reasonable affords. They did whatever they wanted with no regard for safety, or the law, or the constitution, and are fully responsible for the escalation that occurred. And thankfully the Governor and President agreed, whether the county prosecutor did or not. There is absolutely no excusing the actions.

And this is it. I know COPS that would condemn this. You can be pro-cop and still condemn the actions of THESE cops.

The City Chief declined to provide officers, or be involved, and with good reason. There's a shitstorm brewing because of that choice, which I would say was the smartest move ever, not to mention the choice to relieve the County in favor of the State Patrol.

 

[ame]

The militarized police response to protests in Ferguson has driven a rare wedge between two forces that often work closely together – the two largest police departments in the area: the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department and the St. Louis County Police.

St. Louis Police Chief Sam Dotson said in an interview this afternoon that he does not support the county police tactics in Ferguson, and has not sent officers to help them, aside from four officers to direct traffic.

He said he made the decision earlier this week, long before the confrontation between police and protesters on Wednesday night that saw the St. Louis County respond to protests with armored vehicles, tear gas and officers toting cannons and assault rifles.

“One side, the chiefly side of me, wants to always be there to support law enforcement in the city or in the county,” Dotson said. “My personal side was concerned about the things I saw transpiring in Ferguson.”

“My gut told me what I was seeing were not tactics that I would use in the city and I would never put officers in situations that I would not do myself,” he said.

He emphasized that he was not criticizing his counterpart in the county police, Chief Jon Belmar, but said he did not agree with Belmar’s tactics.

"This is going to drive a further wedge, without question,” he said. “I have two responsibilities: to protect our community and to keep it safe and to protect my officers. After two nights of not making any progress in Ferguson I was concerned about both of them.”

Terry Kennedy, alderman of the city's 18th Ward, emailed Dotson on Wednesday night to discourage him from sending city police officers into Ferguson. A copy of the email exchange was posted on Twitter.

Kennedy wrote: “The possibility of having St. Louis Police Department personnel present with the Ferguson Police in what appears to be a racially-charged and possibly discriminating environment could make it appear that the St. Louis Police Department supports racial discrimination and disenfranchisement.”

Dotson’s response: “I agree and removed our tactical assistance. We did not send tactical resources to Ferguson on Tuesday or Wednesday. Our only assistance was that of four traffic officers to help divert traffic and keep both pedestrians and motorists safe. On Thursday we will have no officers assisting Ferguson.”

(stltoday.com)