Medium Culet Diamond Help

ebadevil · Jul 31, 2014

Hey guys, this is my first post on the forum. I've been looking into purchasing a diamond/ring and this has been one of the contenders thus far:
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4270674-1.50-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VVS1-clarity.aspx

Carat Weight:1.50
Cut:Very Good
Color:I
Clarity:VVS1
Price($):10127.91
Lab Name:GIA
Certificate No:2131888070
Depth:57.40
Table:59.00
Polish:Excellent
Symmetry:Very Good
Girdle:TN-M
Culet:Medium
Fluorescence:Medium Blue
Ratio:0.00
Measurements:7.52x7.55x4.33

It seems like a nice diamond, larger-looking than it's weight indicates, and the stats that I've been looking at...good HCA score of 1.0... the only issue that I have with it is the medium culet... I'm not a diamond expert at all and there seems to be very little info on culet's impact on visual characteristics of the diamond... on top of that, I keep reading conflicting opinions on some pages that medium culet is still not visible with the naked eye, and on others that medium culet starts contributing to light loss... with the shallower diamond, I'm concerned about it... so... what are your thoughts on the diamond? do you think medium culet is a big problem? should I stay away form this diamond because of it? does anyone have pictures of a diamond (yours or any other) with a medium culet... I just need help...

Thanks!

Gypsy · Jul 31, 2014

My advice:

1. It's a very good cut diamond. But it has a good HCA score. This is a 'maybe' zone. Do not proceed without an idealscope image.
2. I like open culets, even on a MRB. But many people don't. I would NEVER advise anyone to buy a MRB with a medium culet without pictures from the vendor of the stone. So ask for that. See what you think of it.

Bottom line: It could be a good value if you are okay with it's quirks. It's a bit of a unique find. It's a VG cut diamond with an HCA and medium blue... all those discount it's price. But.. there's usually a reason those discount it's price. And you need to screen to make sure the performance is good (idealscope) and that the medium culet is something you can live with (picture).

B2C can sometimes NOT provide idealscopes and images. And I can tell you that for me, this stone is too risky to buy without those. So if they can't get it to you, I would pass personally. There are other stones out there and we can help you find them.

Gypsy · Jul 31, 2014

This is what a medium culet on a MRB should (hopefully) look like-- but you need to see what it looks like on your actual stone:

Gypsy · Jul 31, 2014

Other stones you can consider:
If eyeclean: http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4807061-1.50-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=4807061&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

Gypsy · Jul 31, 2014

I like this one. http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.46-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-276813 Put on hold and ask for idealscope image.

Has potential, ask for lab report and run though HCA http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.52-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-327464

If eyeclean, get idealscope: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.57-carat-i-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-347418

John P · Jul 31, 2014

Your posted diamond is an interesting 60-60(ish) candidate. Agree 100% with the need for further info and images (ASET/IS).

Gypsy|1406863418|3724216 said:
Other stones you can consider: If eyeclean: http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4807061-1.50-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=4807061&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

I'd also ask for ASET/IS on the Gypsy suggestion. Between the two I expect you'll have one stand-out.

Gypsy · Jul 31, 2014

John Pollard|1406864269|3724224 said:
Your posted diamond is an interesting 60-60(ish) candidate. Agree 100% with the need for further info and images (ASET/IS).

Gypsy|1406863418|3724216 said:

Other stones you can consider: If eyeclean: http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4807061-1.50-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=4807061&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

Click to expand...

I'd also ask for ASET/IS on the Gypsy suggestion. Between the two I expect you'll have one stand-out.

Thanks for catching that John! You need idealscopes on all of them.

ebadevil · Jul 31, 2014

Thanks gypsy!

B2C just got me a video of the diamond... it looks fine by me, but again, I don't know much about all this. I'm attaching it, can you please let me know your thoughts? I'm gonna ask them for ideal scope and top-down picture as well

And thank you very much for your help on the other diamond. I'll take a look at it and plug all the values into HCA/DCA...

In addition, this is the diamond that I have on reserve from blue nile:
http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD03000885

It seems like a perfect diamond to me, and definitely in my price range... I have a picture of it too, I'll attach it, can you please help me with your thoughts on it?

The only issue with the Blue Nile stone is... I hate all their settings... I love a setting from B2C but they are refusing to sell it to me without a stone... so I've been looking on their page for a diamond but I just can't find anything that will match the BN stone's quality...

OK... I can't seem to add the video cause it's MOV format, let me see if I can reformat...

ebadevil · Jul 31, 2014

hey guys, I can't find a video format that this forum will accept... can anyone suggest what format I can convert the file to in order to upload?

Gypsy · Aug 1, 2014

Idealscope images are what you need for performance. Just post the link to the video or upload to You tube. I don't know any other way. At least it would let us see the culet. BUT WE STILL NEED AN IDEALSCOPE.

BN doesn't provide idealscope images. But the diamonds specs are good.

What is the setting you are in love with? Please link.

ebadevil · Aug 1, 2014

thanks, I'm gonna upload it to youtube but I assume it might take bit

yea I asked BN for idealscope and they said that the diamond is in the vault and they can't get it

http://www.b2cjewels.com/Traditional-Solitaire-Settings/Solitaire-Diamond-Ring-Platinum-(2.0-mm)-5500-1.aspx

so this setting is honestly issue... both gf and I have looked at it and we both love it, but B2C won't set the diamond for me in that setting or sell to me without a center stone, I can't find it anywhere else online... there are close options, but nothing we liked as much as that... and the local jeweler quoted me 3k+ for custom job to create that... at that point I can buy that setting and cheapest diamond from B2C just to get them to sell it to me... twice... and still have $600 left over...

ebadevil · Aug 1, 2014

ok got it on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2rszPa8U6o

Gypsy · Aug 1, 2014

Gypsy · Aug 1, 2014

I'd buy the BN stone. And take it to an appraiser for an idealscope image. Where are you located again?

And then we'll help you find a great setting for it.

Does she have a pinterest account (ask her). If so I suggest STRONGLY that you snoop and see what style of ring she wants.

ebadevil · Aug 1, 2014

Hey Gypsy, thanks so much for your help! I've been looking for about 2 weeks straight now day and night and the BN stone is still the best deal that I found... I'm essentially set on buying it unless B2C comes through with a miracle... I'm located in Atlanta, any appraiser you can recommend in that area?

and wow that's a lot of settings... I like quite a few of them, I don't know if I'll be able to sell her on many of them... I've actually been looking at the same settings that you've sent me, just from Zoara... they said they'll set my diamond too if I send it in to them. These are the settings that I was looking at:

http://www.zoara.com/engagement/rings/p_half_bezel_solitaire_round_cut_diamond_ring#p=108415
http://www.zoara.com/engagement/rings/p_swirl_bezel_set_diamond_ring#p=170520
http://www.zoara.com/engagement/rings/p_half_bezel_twist_diamond_ring#p=1187566

The issue is that she's sort of (and by sort of I mean really really) klutzy... how safe are those settings? I know she'll take care of the ring, but I don't know if she'll stop dropping and hitting things... in addition she has tiny hands, so she's completely insistent on a smaller setting...

I really like the first one, it seems a lot more secure than the other options but I don't know if I'll be able to sell her on the bulkier top

The second one is my favorite and I know she'll like that one the most out of the three as well... it's thinner and more exposed to show off the diamond... but I guess that also carries a higher chance of an accident... do you think this setting is safe? what are your thoughts on this fake tension/bridge style? I really like it... personally more than the b2c setting... just wondering how safe the "2 contact points" setting is in comparison to the 4 thick prongs on the b2c setting? what would you suggest?

option 3 seems like the best compromise in terms of hold vs sleeker look... but I don't see a bridge under that stone which again, makes me worry...

what are your thoughts? how is zoara is general? thanks!

Gypsy · Aug 1, 2014

Those aren't tension set. Most of them are bezel set. Very safe if well done.

I LOVE the first one. I think it's elegant and perfect. I MUCH prefer it to the 4 prong at B2C.

I think you should go for the Blue Nile stone and here is appraiser information:
https://www.pricescope.com/appraisers/georgia

And this is what you need to know to research both of them to make sure they are a good choice:

denverappraiser|1404344469|3705566 said:
I appreciate all of the kind words and I do try to maintain my practice at the top of the field but it’s not correct that I’m the only one out there that does it ‘right’. I know dozens. Allow me to recommend the folks from the American Society of appraisers (www.appraisers.org) and the Independent Certified Gemologist Appraisers from the American Gem Society (www.ags.org) as well as the members of the Independent Association of Jewelry Valuers (http://www.independent-jewellery-valuers.org)

Another great resource is the National Association of Jewelry Appraisers (www.najaappraisers.com)

Look for people who at least claim to be compliant with the Uniform Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice (www.USPAP.org). Compliance is voluntary, it's not particularly easy to do, and there are some rules that are a bit arcane, but appraisers who have studied and understand the rules tend to be the ones to take their job seriously.

40 years ago, appraising was a sideline job for jewelry salespeople to do in their spare time and that's why the reputation is for so many charlatans. That's changed, and it continues to change. As a client, you no more want this service than you want dental work done by your barber but I bristle at the idea that this means appraisers are useless. THOSE appraisers are useless.

Strategies I specifically DON’T recommend is just looking up the closest jewelry store and, even worse, calling around and finding who does the cheapest work in your area. SOME jewelers are pretty good, but a lot aren’t, and the cheapest are very rarely the best.

Always with appraisers, make sure they understand what you are asking and that you understand what they’ve answered. That’s why I mentioned the difference between an appraisal and an appraisal report. This is especially true if what you're looking for is different from the standard pre-loss insurance documentation sort of work.

Professional advice from a buyer, or even from an otherwise perfectly good appraiser working for a buyer on your deal, is like getting legal advice from opposing council. It’s not necessarily wrong, but it’s good to be aware. Their interests are NOT aligned with yours.

Also when you call for an appointment after checking to make sure they are a member of one of the associations mentioned above and are USPAP compliant, make sure to ask if they have an idealscope or an ASET scope if that's what you want.

Gypsy · Aug 1, 2014

If she wants thin and delicate though, this would be my choice/recommendation: http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/lola-sholdt-platinum-5341p

Gypsy · Aug 1, 2014

http://www.bluenile.com/build-your-own-ring/bezel-solitaire-ring-14k-white-gold_48186?elem=img&track=product

ebadevil · Aug 1, 2014

thanks for the appraiser info! I'll start looking!

I definitely agree with you on the first setting... I love the look, I just don't think I'll be able to sell it to her, I'm like 80% sure she'll say it's too bulky...

I think if I have a chance on getting away from the b2c setting, I'm gonna have to put all my eggs in the #2 basket... do you think Zoara will do a good job setting it? I'm assuming that's just a stamped ring and is no different than the WF one?

I'm worried about 2 points of contact but I absolutely love the look way more than b2c... I just hope it will be set in there safely...

ebadevil · Aug 1, 2014

she definitely doesn't want a full bezel

Gypsy · Aug 1, 2014

Ok. Let's go at this from a different directions. What does SHE want. Ignoring her clumsiness.

I gotta tell you, I am the clumsiest person I know. AND before I got engaged I was notorious for losing jewelry. I absolutely am NOT hard on my rings at all. I take them to get polished and checked by my local jeweler and they are always amazed at how easy I am on my pieces and that comes from A) great quality jewelry and B) the awareness that this is very special and unique and I respect it.

So she might surprise you.

I can't comment on the quality of the Zoara settings. I do not know anyone who has purchased from them. And have never seen reviews of them good or bad.

So personally, I'd go with Whiteflash as I KNOW that they have amazing quality. PLUS, if you asked for it as a favor they might be willing to do an idealscope of your stone for you (doesn't hurt to ask) while it is there.

ebadevil · Aug 1, 2014

it's hard to really tell... we're about on the same page... simple, elegant, clean, geometrical lines

she wants something thin as her fingers are really small, so anything that adds extra bulk is out and she can be very picky about the bulk... she doesn't want any halos or any halo effect (that includes a full bezel too)... I think she wanted diamonds on the band before but now she came over to the side of "get a better diamond and accent it by a clean looking solitaire" so now she really don't want any diamonds

the true specifics, I don't know... she likes the b2c setting and that's really about where we're at, she didn't see too excited about the band, but she had to go into work early today so she left before I woke up since I went to bed at 630 looking for this setting lol... the reaction I'm judging from her email response, might not be very accurate until we sit down to look at it tonight but I wanted to proceed looking for something during the day...

ebadevil · Aug 1, 2014

she's also concerned that the setting might affect brightness, do you think it will? from what I read, it shouldn't have a very significant impact, but may just make it a little less bright? is that true? seems like an ok arrangement to me if you gain some protection and frankly I like the shape more..

Gypsy · Aug 1, 2014

WHEW! OK. So you are getting her input as you go. That's all you can do.

MY advise? Show her all the links to settings (including the full bezel) that I posted for you. See what she thinks of all of them.

Gypsy · Aug 1, 2014

Is the stone has a great idealscope, no, a Bezel won't affect brightness with a MRB.

ebadevil · Aug 1, 2014

yup, that's our homework for tonight, I already planned on it lol...

We've been talking throughout the day about it and if I can sum up her concern is: with the diamond + setting + insurance +shipping +setting, the whole thing will be $12k+ which is quite a bit of $$ for me/us as this point in our lives... but this is something I want to do, I want to get her the best thing I can at this point, I don't believe in upgrading later and neither does she I think, so this has to be right right now... I don't mind spending the $$ but I think she feel slightly guilty and wants to make sure that the $10k+ diamond isn't ruined by the band... so she keeps wondering:

1) if the band will make the diamond look smaller than it actually is (although all in all, it seems like a fairly wide cut diamond, and larger than what we were originally looking at... I started looking in the 7.30 diameter range and with this diamond I managed to get up to 7.56 which means that even if the band makes it look slightly smaller, that's ok in my mind...
2) if the larger, vertical semi-bezel band will make the diamond look duller

she really is just looking out for me so I don't spend so much $$ on a diamond and then ruin it's beauty with the band (although I think it'll look fantastic)

Gypsy, in your professional "Super Ideal Rock" opinion, does she have valid concerns? all of her friends like really over the top jewelry and all my friends are dudes that do keg stands so really, we have no one to ask...

ebadevil · Aug 1, 2014

Gypsy|1406920960|3724584 said:
Is the stone has a great idealscope, no, a Bezel won't affect brightness with a MRB.

ah just saw that! that's pretty much what I was thinking... how do the physics of a diamond work? I know about how it enters and is reflected by the pavilion and then get spread out by the crown. Is pretty much all of the light reflected back entering from the table? Does any of the light come from other parts of a diamond... it seems to me that a properly cut diamond should be illuminated enough just by the light entering through the table? The blue nile diamond doesn't seem to be the absolutely brightest of the bunch but judging by where it falls on the HCA graph and by the picture, but it looks bright enough... DCA is giving me a 92.31% brilliance... what seems pretty good, right? I feel like the setting doesn't cover the necessary light and it seems to be cut well enough to not need stadium lighting to make it bright...

Gypsy · Aug 1, 2014

LOL! Okay well.

Here's the thing.

YES a very thick shank CAN, depending on the design of the ring and the size of the diamond, make a diamond appear smaller.
However, it VERY MUCH depends on the setting. Here is a setting you MIGHT think would do that, but doesn't.
Sholdt Fremont

So that really depends on the actual setting.

Second, no rounds with good idealscopes are cut so that they take their light in from the top of the diamond, not the sides. So if you want a full bezel a round with a good idealscope is actually one of the best stones to bezel. And the half bezels you are considering certainly won't do that. And neither would either of the full bezels I posted for you.

ebadevil · Aug 3, 2014

thanks gypsy!

Looks like we're gonna go with just designing a custom ring. She didn't like the setting that I showed her so we're just gonna work on getting one custom made!

thanks for all you help!

Gypsy · Aug 4, 2014

That's good. Read this please: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/custom-jewelry-work-cad-and-cast-psa.175834/#post-3202426#p3202426']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/custom-jewelry-work-cad-and-cast-psa.175834/#post-3202426#p3202426[/URL]

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