Advice... which Diamond?

[bugaloosis]

Hi I need some advice choosing the best center stone for my Tacori engagement ring. Please see photos attached, both stones are about the same price...

Left side Diamond
GIA certified
.72 G SI2
Hearts and Arrows

Right side Diamond
EGL certified
.80 G SI2
Hearts and Arrows

If the difference is about $200 to $300, which stone should I go for???

Thanks!

Dori

 

[cactus88]

go with the one with GIA cert. And it looks more sparkle to me

 

[bugaloosis]

Thanks!

 

[Gypsy]

Bad advice. When taking advice please make sure the person who is giving it isn't another newbie.

Yes, a GIA stone is a better idea than an EGL stone in general. And yes, I would eliminate the EGL stone from consideration. But that doesn't mean the GIA stone is a stone worthy of purchase.

You can't tell anything of substance from those pictures. Lighting can greatly affect any image and make a great stone look bad, or a bad stone great.

NEITHER diamond is recommended at this point. The EGL because it is an EGL diamond. Please read this: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
And the GIA stone because GIA is not enough. GIA Ex cut is not enough. GIA 3 Ex is not enough. And GIA "hearts and arrows" is not enough.

Why? Because you have not given us enough information for us to help you. And that usually means you don't know enough about diamonds to vet them yourself.

Hearts and arrows is patterning. It doesn't have SQUAT to do with performance. A stone can have perfect hearts and arrows and be a complete dud.

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough.
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform. It's only goal is to weed out stones that have angles that do not normally result in ideal light performance.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. James Allen, BGD, GOG, ERD, HPD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA. The HCA is just used narrow and predict which stones will have a good idealscope image.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.


Please post the GIA lab report for the GIA diamond. And since it is an SI2-- is it eyeclean?

And while you are at it, please read this: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/[/URL]

 

[SG000]

^ That. Great advice Gypsy.

 

[bugaloosis]

Hi Gypsy

Thanks for all the input. I actually viewed both diamonds with the idealscope myself. I looked at both front and back. They both had a great hearts and arrow pattern. I know that photos do not give it justice. In addition the jeweler actually let me walk around the store to see the diamonds performance under different lighting. I even walked outside in sunlight with them... lol!

To my eye the GIA .70 seemed to sparkle more... none a huge difference, but since I'm good at details I could notice. The GIA also seemed less colorless. The EGL .80 seemed to have a small tint. Again not a huge difference.

I'm just having a hard time deciding if I should go with the smaller and have a GIA or just go with the EGL and have a bit more size.

This additional information may help... I wear a 3.5 ring size and I just attached some photos of the Tacori Mounting my fiancé choose.

Again Thanks to all those who help with a little advice!

Dori

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The GIA is more colorless. It is G color and the EGL stone is not. So between these two, certainly choose the GIA stone. But I agree with everything Gypsy said.

 

[Gypsy]

No. You didn't look with an idealscope.

I guarantee you that. You do not look though an idealscope at the back of a diamond. Only a hearts and arrows viewer.

You looked through a hearts and arrows viewer. Different scopes and hearts and arrows viewers do not evaluate performance, but rather pattern.

Again, GET THE GIA LAB REPORT NUMBER AND POST IT.

 

[Lorelei]

Hi Dori and welcome!

The others have given you great advice, I think maybe we need to go back to basics here and find out what your priorities are. Do you want a ' true' hearts and arrows diamond with perfect patterning and light performance? Or are you after a well cut diamond that sparkles beautifully, but isn't necessarily a flawless cut? I am a bit concerned you aren't quite sure what to look for yet. I would personally scrap the EGL graded diamond, there are many questions we would need to be answered and please bear in mind that some EGL graded diamonds might actually grade lower than stated should AGS or GIA be issuing the lab report. Also it is said some EGL labs are less strict than others so an EGL G SI2 could in fact be I/J or lower and I1 or even I2 clarity....

I think for the moment, let's concentrate on the GIA graded diamond, if you could post all the information from the report here please, or better yet, the report number so we can look it up, then we can go from there, there are things we need to check concerning the clarity of this diamond as well as the proportions. A little extra research will pay dividends right now for such an important purchase, don't let anyone pressure you into making a decision until you are confident you know you can make an informed, educated purchase!

 

[bugaloosis]

Hi...

I just uploaded the GIA Report... What are your thoughts.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[Roqsteady]

holy moly... you can do better than that.

The HCA score actually isn't terrible, but the spread is horrific. It faces up more like a 0.65 carat.

 

[bugaloosis]

Hi...

I just uploaded the GIA Report... What are your thoughts.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[Gypsy]

OMG. No. That's terrible.

Please go back and read my post to you about the HCA and idealscopes.

That diamond is NOT a good choice.

 

[bugaloosis]

Hi...

May I ask why is it a terrible diamond?

I know its a small diamond, but its graded with a very good cut. I've read that GIA is a good and reliable certification. If it were terrible wouldn't the cut grade be lower... such as fair or poor?

Again, thanks so much for your input. This is my first time buying a diamond and didn't realize how complicated it could be. I'm not looking for the most perfect diamond, but would love a fabulous sparkle. I actually like the idea of my diamond having some imperfections (just like love and marriage is not perfect)... thats why I feel its okay for it to be a SI1 or SI2.

I like dainty jewelery and thats why the size doesn't concern me... just fabulous sparkle!

 

[RockyRacoon]

It's important to know what else is out there, so I've found you some comparable stones with verified top-notch cuts.

I picked a few solid stones in this size range, that will give you a variety of options to choose from:

.707ct, H, VS2
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.707-h-vs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104069795033

.803ct, G, VS2
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.803-g-vs2-round-diamond-ags-c-104071505047

If you really want an SI2, here is a nice one:
.70ct, H, SI2
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/10894/

Ever consider an August Vintage stone? This one looks GREAT:
.79ct, G, SI1
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12284/

 

[bugaloosis]

Hi Gypsy

Hope your having a fabulous day, week... What do you think about this stone:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.70-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-sku-246271

I have it on hold and needed some input.

Thanks!

Dori

 

[Gypsy]

Hi Gypsy

Hope your having a fabulous day, week... What do you think about this stone:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.70-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-sku-246271

I have it on hold and needed some input.

Thanks!

Dori

LOVE IT! Get an idealscope image. JA will do that for you.

Love the setting you picked.

 

[bugaloosis]

Good Morning Gypsy

Happy TGIF! Thanks for responding so quickly. I'm waiting for James Allen to provide idealscope because they told me I can compare 3 stones. I'm just having a hard time selecting the other 2 from JA. I'm actually really impressed with JA, their customer service is fabulous. When I saw this stone it called me... I know its a .70 (small) but it seems to be so beautiful even with a Si1 clarity. And I remembered what you wrote me about the cut and that I can't go wrong with a AGS0. I am looking for the best possible sparkle I can get within my budget of $2700-$3000 max! JA is offering me this one for $2790 (with Pricescope discount). I have a couple more questions though, hope you can help...

This stone is an AGS H, before I was looking at a GIA G... when mounted do you think the tint difference will be noticeable?
Also once mounted do you think the setting will really add size to it? My fiancé is concerned with it being too small, but for some reason I am partial to these...lol! I guess I'd rather have fabulous sparkle then a bigger one that sparkles less. Also please note that I am a 3.5 ring size (literally like little girl hands). Any additional advise would help.

btw... thanks for your comment on the Tacori mounting, my fiancé actually picked it out.

Thanks again!

Dori

 

[Gypsy]

You don't have to pick three and certainly don't delay for it. Just tell them if this one idealscopes out you will buy it, you just want the one idealscope and for them to move on it.

 

[Gypsy]

I can't answer on the too small. Yes a halo will boost the size appearance though.

As for H or G. No I think you'll be fine when set.

 

[bugaloosis]

Thanks Gypsy!

I just requested Idealscope image... I'll keep you posted, hope thats okay?

I just uploaded a possible contender a GIA .73 H Si1 Excellent thats about the same price. The difference with this one is I've seen it in person, but just with a lope and not an idealscope. I saw it at a place in the Seybold building in Miami. If you get a chance please look and share your thoughts.

Thank you!

Dori

 

[Dancing Fire]

Thanks Gypsy!

I just requested Idealscope image... I'll keep you posted, hope thats okay?

I just uploaded a possible contender a GIA .73 H Si1 Excellent thats about the same price. The difference with this one is I've seen it in person, but just with a lope and not an idealscope. I saw it at a place in the Seybold building in Miami. If you get a chance please look and share your thoughts.

Thank you!

Dori

Are you sure this is a HoF stone? did you view the hearts with an H&A scope?

 

[Gypsy]

Did you run through HCA?

 

[bugaloosis]

Just did and got:

Light Return... Excellent
Fire... Excellent
Scintillation... Excellent
Spread... Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.3 - Excellent
within TIC range

 

[bugaloosis]

I just did it for the James Allen AGS0 stone and got...

Light Return... Excellent
Fire... Very Good
Scintillation... Very Good
Spread... Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.7 - Excellent
within TIC range

Now I'm confused...isn't AGS0 better then GI Excellent?

 

[bugaloosis]

I just reread your full explanation on HCA and Idealscope. I'm good with either stone because they are under 2 HCA. I guess now its time to wait on that Idealscope from James Allen. As soon as I get it I will post.

Again thanks for all your input. I have learned tons about all this... its sad that in retail stores they really do not educate the consumer. Thanks for what you do!

Dori

 

[Gypsy]

No. You buy the stone not the paper.

 

[bugaloosis]

I'm confused again... :/

I know we buy the stone, but doesn't the paper back up what we are buying? And the idealscope image help determine its performance... especially for its sparkle?

 

[Gypsy]

Sorry to confuse you.

You asked if AGS is better than GIA. That answer to that is no. They do different things. Both are good labs.

GIA Ex is overbroad as a catagory/range. And AGS is narrower. But both ranges have better stones in them and not as nice stones in them. But both LABS are good. And both labs grade diamonds with lovely potential WITHIN those ranges.

Which is why we say buy the stone not the paper. The paper is just information. It is a starting point, not an ending point. You need to process that information-- so run the numbers through the HCA and get an idealscope... to get to the point where you have enough information to buy the stone based on it's merits and performance. Regardless of whether it is an AGS0 or a GIA Ex.

 

[bugaloosis]

Now I understand... thanks! I'll keep you posted.