Losing hope with OEC search. Will modern RBC do?

[umbrella]

I've made a couple of posts here, but I mostly sit back and read all of the greatly helpful threads.

I've been searching for a <1 carat OEC for several months, and I'm just really not enjoying it anymore. I recently purchased one on eBay but I will be returning it (deep cut with nail head, light leakage and lazy facets under the table). The small OEC inventory compared to modern RBC makes searching quite limited, particularly because I'm located in Aus, where it's difficult or costly to view the diamond in person. I realise that most OECs are best seen in person to decide if the facet play etc is of interest. I also have a limited budget of around $2000. So I've come to the sad realisation that maybe an OEC isn't for me. I love them, but the search is getting out of hand now. I have tried all of the typical vendors and preloved sites with no luck so far.

I was wondering if there will be a noticeable difference between an OEC and a RB if the diamond size is only around 5.8mm? With the eBay OEC, it's about 5.7mm and I have to bring it really close to my eyes to notice the culet and OEC facets, but that could be due to the deeper/poor cut. Is it worth looking into RBCs? I want a quite ornate art deco setting, so it's not like I would only notice the diamond, I would predominately notice the setting, then the diamond. I also should mention that I have a weird thing with symmetry, so maybe a RBC would be better for more symmetry? But it doesn't have those lovely chunky facets though! Argh.

Sorry if this is a bit of a mopey post. I've just hit a wall in my search and it's getting me down

FYI this is along the lines of the type of setting I'm having custom made, but round. Thanks all.

 

[arkieb1]

Hi,
I just went back and looked at your posts and I can see the problem with the former stone it was more of an OMC than an OEC in shape and it had fish eye or a really dead ring and dead spot that took up a large area in the centre. NO well cut small OECS, Antique cushions and OMCs are little fireballs they should not look like that one did.

A modern RB will not look like a OEC although it is true that you will notice the cut pattern far far less the smaller the stone. If you don't hold it up to inspect it a lot then an RB might be O.K if you plan to inspect it closely then an OEC still might be better for you.

It is difficult buying things from Australia, I had three goes at getting the setting right for my large OEC and I have bought and sold a number of things along the way. If you do want an Antique stone it does pay to be patient. It is probably still worth hassling, Erica, Grace and Adam again to see what else they are getting in. I know their stones cost more than ebay finds but they will eliminate the risk of getting a dud stone and having to send things back and forth which ultimately will work out more costly anyway. I can also keep an eye out if I see anything here for sale if you like.

 

[Dreamer_D]

You will pay much more for a well cut MRB because there are fewer nice ones on the secondary market, and cut in MRBs is less forgiving. A .75ct MRB that is well cut will cost much more than your budget.

 

[Dreamer_D]

You can find mounts like that from vendors ready made, too. Custom is a can of worms that will make your OEC hunt look like a walk in the park

I think your best bet could be to find a vintage ring that you love AS IS.

 

[Gypsy]

Is there a hurry? I would just save up for a year, then you can afford something really nice. Your budget is very low for what you want. And there are only two solutions: change your expectations and be happy with a 5mm diamond, or change your budget. Of the two, I think saving up for a year or even two is the better road for you.

 

[arkieb1]

I wonder if you could email Erica and ask how much this stone would be without the setting (so diamond only) or is the colour too low for you;

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/0-89ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ring-j-k-vs1/

Or I agree with the others either become more flexible with what you are looking for and purchase a whole antique ring with a halo or save up and buy something you love.

Look at Loupetroop and DiamondBistro every day as well, members frequently sell beautiful items to upgrade or clean out things they are not wearing.

 

[umbrella]

Thank you all so much for your replies. It's just what I needed to hear.

arkieb - Wow, that's such a generous offer to keep an eye out here for a possible OEC. That would be awesome if it's no hassle for you. I will again try Adam, Erica and Grace. I just popped to the shops to have a look at modern brilliants and I just do not like them. I will be patient and get the OEC, because I know I'll regret it if I don't. I have spoken to Erica about that diamond you mentioned but I think it's a little too warm and I can't get my head around that carbon spot on the table.

Dreamer - Good to know about MRB costing more than OECs. I didn't know they were less forgiving either so that's very reassuring to hear - OEC it is! Ideally I would find the perfect vintage mount and diamond AS IS to purchase, however whenever I seem to find the perfect or almost perfect mount, the diamond is very included or terribly cut MRB. I have yet to see a true vintage ring with an OEC in it. I do have a very, very good idea of what I'd like to custom make, and I do realise that will probably be a headache too, but at least I'll know that I will have something at the end of the process when it's finally done. Out of interest, which vendors have mounts like my inspiration picture? I've been quoted about $1450 to have it custom made in platinum by a very respected jeweller.

Gypsy - No there isn't necessarily a hurry, but we are waiting for the ring before the proposal/engagement. We're at the stage where we just want to be engaged. My partner and I feel like I've been caught up with the materialistic side of "the ring" and "the proposal", when I am not that much of a materialistic person at all. The sentiment should mean more to me than how big or perfect a diamond is cut. In my social circle, most proposals are unexpected and the girls have no say in the ring whatsoever anyway. But now with all of the knowledge and information in my head from the wonderful Pricescopers, it would kill me to get a poor cut diamond. To be honest we can afford a more expensive ring/diamond without waiting 6 months - 1 year. But $3500-$4000 is what we agreed was a sensible and reasonable amount to spend on a ring. I think I'd freak out wearing a more expensive thing on my finger! I've always been uncomfortable receiving expensive gifts, or buying pricey things for myself, and that is definitely reflecting on this diamond purchase. Perhaps I need to realise that a very special once off is okay to spend a little bit of money. Can you advice what a reasonable budget would be for about a .80ct OEC, no warmer than J?

 

[arkieb1]

I saw that carbon spot as well, but I was not sure how noticeable it would be in real life, if you decide to extend the budget how about something like this;

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/rings/vintage-inspired/1-12ct-est-old-mine-cut-halo-ring.html#.U9c1tu0Vq5Q

You can't always tell with old cuts some hide colour better than others. I have an L that mostly faces the same as a GIA graded J that I also own.

 

[umbrella]

Oh gosh arkieb I love that ring so much, it's 100% perfect, but it's double my initial budget! And then there's the customs import and GST tax... But is that a reasonable amount to spend on a ring?

 

[arkieb1]

O.K how about some of these;

http://www.newyorkestatejewelry.com/engagement-rings/1.08ct--art-deco-style-platinum-diamond-engagement-ring/4486/3/item

I can't see the stone well enough in the pics to judge the cut but this one is in budget;

http://www.newyorkestatejewelry.com/engagement-rings/0.75ct--art-deco-style-platinum-diamond-engagement-ring/4902/3/item

Or something different in budget;

http://www.newyorkestatejewelry.com/engagement-rings/art-deco-style-0.60ct-diamond-0.50ct-square-cut-ruby-engagement-ring/21831/3/item

http://www.newyorkestatejewelry.com/engagement-rings/art-deco-style-0.72ct-diamond-0.68ct-sapphire-engagement-ring/23748/3/item

http://www.newyorkestatejewelry.com/engagement-rings/0.60ct-diamond-0.58ct-ruby-engagement-ring/23158/3/item

Have a look on their site and also check dover;

http://www.doverjewelry.com/

If you are flexible you might be able to find an entire ring in that budget.

One at Lang's;

http://www.langantiques.com/products/item/10-1-6779

If you want something well within the budget, nice cut, white facing and great finger coverage this is a lovely antique ring;

http://loupetroop.com/listings/rings-natural-diamond-center/platinum-edwardian-star-dome-diamond-ring

The key to finding a good deal is being flexible with what you are willing to purchase. Alternatively if you want a perfect stone buy something like a Canera newly Cut OEC or a AVR from GOG put it into a plain setting or a preloved setting so spend the entire budget on the stone ($4000.00+) and wear it for a while and for an anniversary or birth of a baby or special occasion get the setting you love made for it then, that is what lots of members do.

Only you and your partner can answer what is a reasonable amount to spend on a ring. For some people that is a lot for others it is not, it really depends on each individual person and their circumstances.

 

[Gypsy]

I would contact Grace at Jewels by Grace. And ask her to find you a nice 5.8-6.0 mm center stone. You should ask for OECs by measurement not by carat weight as spread can vary dramatically depending on the stones's angles and depth, etc.

I think you are probably most realistically going to be in the 2500-3500 range... And that's probably what I'd tell a vendor, that you want something 6mm, GIA J or K color and that ideally you would like to be under 3000. And if she finds something fabulous slightly over, and up to 3500, then you have that room already budgeted.

I also think being open to K color, as long as the diamond is GIA or AGS graded is a good idea. And that's why I recommended Grace, because her stones are graded by GIA or AGS.

And yes, for that budget you could get a MRB. Here's an example. The numbers are just south of perfect. But still within a range that could idealscope out well, and JA does provide idealscopes: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.81-carat-k-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-306888 The stones hits 6.00mm for you.


As for splurging. I don't know your finances. But yes, if you are talking about a shift in budget of under 2000 and you can afford it without going into debt, then I do think that it is worth it. You will wear this ring all your life and it will symbolize your promise of commitment to one another. When you look down at it, you should always smile with joy.

 

[umbrella]

Thank you thank you thank you! That is so incredibly kind of you to post all of those lovely rings. Some of them are so, so close to what I have in mind. And I haven't heard of those websites before so it's allowing me to browse some more and hopefully raise my spirits!

I agree with you about being flexible to find a good deal. I'll search through the Dover site and see if I spot anything else there too. I like your GOG AVR/AVC suggestion (although would prefer preloved to be green). I didn't know Canera had newly cut OECs, I will check those out.
Thank you so much again

 

[Gypsy]

So here's a fabulous stone: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xeuropean+diamond+GIA+&_nkw=european+diamond+GIA+&_sacat=0 .85 GIA K Si1 GORGEOUS and hits 6mm. You could ask David what his price is for the stone alone. That would give you a range price to expect.

 

[umbrella]

You will wear this ring all your life and it will symbolize your promise of commitment to one another. When you look down at it, you should always smile with joy.

Spot on, I couldn't have said it better myself, thank you.

I'll keep in contact with Grace and will be flexible to a K colour.

 

[Gypsy]

Thank you thank you thank you! That is so incredibly kind of you to post all of those lovely rings. Some of them are so, so close to what I have in mind. And I haven't heard of those websites before so it's allowing me to browse some more and hopefully raise my spirits!

I agree with you about being flexible to find a good deal. I'll search through the Dover site and see if I spot anything else there too. I like your GOG AVR/AVC suggestion (although would prefer preloved to be green). I didn't know Canera had newly cut OECs, I will check those out.
Thank you so much again

2 things. I adjusted the estimate above and edited my post about price ranges. So re-read that.

Also... and this is important. Just because a vendor says it is a J doesn't mean it is. Ebay J means O-P unless the vendor has a GIA lab report or an AGS lab report.

As for Dover. I am pretty sure they use a dart board for their evaluations of their pieces. I bought a band from them. The stated it was X weight and so on and so forth. Well, they were HUGELY wrong. But the kicker is... the band had the diamond weight and information actually engraved onto it. So they didn't even loupe it to figure that out. I also got a necklace from them. Said it was .50 carats. It was .21. So at Dover if you want a J-K in color look for listings that say H. Usually UNCERTED stones that people claim to be "H" color are more accurately graded at J-K.

 

[umbrella]

Thanks Gypsy, I will be wary of Dover and take their stats with a grain of salt.

Even with your estimated budget of an OEC around $3000-3500, I could keep my entire project about $4000-4500 going the custom route, which is pretty good. My spirits are climbing

 

[apacherose]

[quote="
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/rings/vintage-inspired/1-12ct-est-old-mine-cut-halo-ring.html#.U9c1tu0Vq5Q

You can't always tell with old cuts some hide colour better than others. I have an L that mostly faces the same as a GIA graded J that I also own.[/quote]


SWOON! That diamond, that ring!!!! I'm over the moon for that.

Good luck in your search!

 

[Gypsy]

If you feel like gambling:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ART-DECO-14K-GREEN-WHITE-GOLD-1-06-ctw-OLD-EUROPEAN-CUT-DIAMOND-ENGAGEMENT-RING-/371045536132?pt=Diamond_Solitaire_Rings&hash=item5664099184 Good chance it's a true K. And eyeclean. I would ask for close up head on shots of the diamond. And I would ask for a measurement of the spread of the diamond. If both come back pleasing it might be worth risk as there is a 14 day return policy.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-diamond-solitaire-engagement-ring-14K-yel-gold-92CT-VVS-European-round-/121397060314?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c43d422da This is a very good seller. They state that the diamond is a K and it might well be as this seller doesn't tend to inflate. IF EYECLEAN (ask) it might be worth a look especially at 6.2 mm.

This one is interesting. http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-ESTATE-1-20-carat-OLD-European-Cut-Diamond-Si2-I-/171393672656?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27e7dbe5d0 Diamond looks like it probably just needs a polish for abraded facets. The pattern is lovely. I would ask him what inclusions he is basing his clarity grade on, I only see one white inclusion and some abraded facets. If it isn't a black crystal it might be worth investigating. Spread is nice. If the clarity is basically just external things I would best offer for 3200 including a polish of the diamond to improve abraded facets (but no faceting changes, you still want an OEC you do not want that recut into a MRB). Only other thing I would negotiate is a return policy. Ask for 7 days, settle for 3. Even if it means no polish. Put the return policy of 7 days no questions asked full return including original shipping into the comments of the Best Offer. Buyer pays return shipping.

If this one is eyeclean it could well be a GIA K or better: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-01ct-H-Si2-OLD-EUROPEAN-CUT-DIAMOND-EGL-USA-CERT-VINTAGE-ROUND-ANTIQUE-LOOSE-/151362349283?pt=Loose_Diamonds&hash=item233de628e3 Lovely. 6mm. And I would message them on ebay and ask them if they would take 3K for it. See if they will, doesn't hurt to ask. If they counter with anything off list price it's a win.

AWESOME transitional: http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-88c-H-Si1-EGL-USA-CERT-OLD-EUROPEAN-CUT-LOOSE-VG-CUT-VINTAGE-DIAMOND-ROUND-6mm-/151362182662?pt=Loose_Diamonds&hash=item233de39e06 Budget friendly. And could be a GIA K.


You would want to take ANY Of these to an appraiser and have them check the stones out themselves. A GOOD appraiser. Where are you located? We might be able to help you with one

 

[Dreamer_D]

I just want to clarify that OECs don't actually sell for less than MRBs at reputable retailers. But you can often find OECs for less because a) they are available on the secondary market and sometimes sellers do not know what they have; b) OECs can look nice in a variety of cut styles and often an imperfect cut is not a deal breaker because wonk and quirks (within reason) are simply a reality when you are talking about old stones cut by hand 100 years ago!; and c) old cuts look pretty in lower colours for many people. None of that applies to MRBs in my opinion. There are a million crapppy cut MRBs out there on the secondary market, but who wants that

Beverly K is a designer who makes settings almost exactly like the on enough like for very reasonable price. I think there is a thread in PS SOMEWHERE... I might have even started it!


The ring is he ring and it is important. But I would never counsel anyone to postpone something as meaningful and significant as a proposal and declaration of commitment over the ring. If you think you want to take time to find the one, then get a pretty and inexpensive and lively treasure for a few hundred bucks and get engage already! The proposal is about you and your fiancé and your connection, not the ring. Don't let this overshadow this important moment in your relationship. I most definitely feel that a ring can be an amazing symbol of your love..but you can make those memories and that symbolism anytime. And if your dream ring comes later... Mine did... And your engagement ring is simply what worked at the time...mine was... It takes nothing away from he moment or the sentiment. I still wear my original engagement ring on my right hand fairly often!

So get engaged already if you are truly ready to commit. This ring hint... Small potatoes in the scheme of your life together. This whole process should be fun! If it's not, then try another approach.

 

[umbrella]

Gypsy - they are all excellent options, albeit a bit frightening to test eBay again, but this time they are jewellers. I don't know of any appraisers at all. I am in Melbourne, Aus. I like transitionals but that one doesn't look very chunky. But it isn't the best photo.

Dreamer - Your advice is astonishingly wonderful. I completely agree with you about getting engaged when the time is right, not when the ring is here. I'm working on my partner to feel the same way, he's the teeniest bit clueless with these things, bless his cotton socks. I have told him he doesn't need to use "the ring" to propose to me. I do love Beverley K settings. In fact the first online ring I fell in love with ever was a Beverley K ring! I'll give them another look and I'll search for that thread. I do for the most part love researching diamonds and rings, I think today I just felt I'd exhausted my options. But now with the supportive help in this thread my search is alive again

 

[arkieb1]

I do agree with the others Dovers listings are VERY loose with the real colour and clarity estimates keep that in mind, they also have a large shop on ebay that sells things - quite a few bargains appear on there but you have to be open to more risk to buy on ebay and you have already had one bad experience so that is why we are suggesting paying more and using someone like Erica, Grace or Adam to screen items for you. Israel Rose is not too bad with things they and Langs (who are more expensive) will get items certified for you, a lot of their items come with GIA certificates which offers more reassurance if you are getting something from them.

Rubylane is another place to search they will have rings similar to the one you are looking for probably as well, but like ebay the colour and clarity can be more of a gamble.

 

[Lorelei]

This is an excellent thread and everyone has taken great care of you!

I would add to Gypsy's wise words, this is indeed a once in a lifetime purchase and if you spend a bit more, the memory of that will turn into one of satisfaction that the money was well spent as you enjoy your beautiful ring over the years! I think you will end up with something wonderful and I look forward to seeing how this turns out!

 

[MarionC]

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/0-90ct-est-old-european-cut-diamond-ring-l-m-vs/

has this one been suggested? It is one of my favorite OECs - such a pretty facet pattern.

 

[teobdl]

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/0-90ct-est-old-european-cut-diamond-ring-l-m-vs/

has this one been suggested? It is one of my favorite OECs - such a pretty facet pattern.

+1

 

[umbrella]

This is an excellent thread and everyone has taken great care of you!

I would add to Gypsy's wise words, this is indeed a once in a lifetime purchase and if you spend a bit more, the memory of that will turn into one of satisfaction that the money was well spent as you enjoy your beautiful ring over the years! I think you will end up with something wonderful and I look forward to seeing how this turns out!

Absolutely! I am blown away will how helpful, honest, kind and supportive everyone has been. What a wonderful community. I now completely understand that this is a once in a lifetime purchase, and I absolutely know it will bring me so much joy to have the perfect ring, that we both created together. I think increasing my budget a little bit will make a huge difference.

Jimmianne those facets are glorious! I may just have to investigate that little nugget. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Geebee625]

What about this? I think it's your safest bet for a well cut stone and getting the look you want. If you are increasing your budget a bit...
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12317/

 

[teobdl]

What about this? I think it's your safest bet for a well cut stone and getting the look you want. If you are increasing your budget a bit...
<a class="vglnk" title="Link added by VigLink" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12317/"><span>http</span><span>://</span><span>www</span><span>.</span><span>goodoldgold</span><span>.</span><span>com</span><span>/</span><span>diamond</span><span>/</span><span>12317</span><span>/</span></a>

Also a great one! You should be able to get a decent halo setting from Beverly K or Gabriel (sold at GOG) for about 1500.

 

[Niel]

http://www.rubylane.com/item/843875-GGx20-x200098/Mine-Cut-Diamond-Solitaire-Pendant-Necklace
(A lot of people on ruby labe take offers too, so maybe offer a few hundred less?)
?

With this setting (assuming price is the same)
http://m.pearlmansjewelers.com/site/pearlmansjewelers/jewelry-designers-beverley-k-jewelry?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pearlmansjewelers.com%2Fjewelry-designers%2Fbeverley-k-jewelry%2Frings%2F176PP1%2F#2824

Would keep you under 3500

 

[arkieb1]

Not green but very pretty as well;

http://www.diamondbistro.com/category/216/Natural-Diamond-Center/listings/38798/Reduced3-Stone-OEC-Diamond-w-Montana-Sapphires.html

 

[umbrella]

What about this? I think it's your safest bet for a well cut stone and getting the look you want. If you are increasing your budget a bit...
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12317/

I've kept my eye on that diamond, it is gorgeous. Although I'd prefer a true antique, I love the symmetry and flowery facets. I'll email Jon for some more photos

Niel - they are two promising options, thank you.

arkieb - that's a lovely ring but I don't think they're selling the diamond separately unfortunately.

I just got off the phone with Adam from OWD, he was very lovely and calm. I was so nervous to call him, I had a notepad with points to mention as prompts! He'll email me a few options in a few hours, how exciting