Purple Stone Advice

[kimpnoth]

Hello all,

I have been lurking for months, reading and learning. I have wanted a grape jelly purple stone for ages. After reading (for hours and hours) here, I thought a spinel or sapphire would be the best choices. But now I think, no, an amethyst has the qualities I really want. Given the list of qualities I seek below, what are chances of finding a spinel or sapphire that would match my taste? I have recently found some Zambian amethysts, but they are round with brilliant faceting. Might be doable, I'd have to order them and see. Does amethyst have less sparkle (dispersion?) than spinel?

1. Color: Grape jelly purple, I'm still on the fence as to whether I'd like to it lean red or blue --both would be perfect.
2. Cut: Princess, asscher, cushion (I kind of want it to look like someone scraped all the left over jello off the bottom of the bowl, and put it in a little pile. I like the visual of light slowly moving around larger facets for this stone.
3. Size: hmmmm for the right stone I'd go small, but at least 6mm. However a 9-12 mm would be heaven
4. Price: also hmmmm, depends on the stone, but I'd like to stay under $500. Would go higher for the right stone, maybe $1200

I understand amethyst is less durable than spinel or sapphire -- I think I can live with that. . . .. for the right stone.

Thank you.

 

[ephsea]

I think you're correct in thinking amethyst is what you want. A really *top* quality piece will have some red/blue flash to it. Hard to find, but worth it IMHO. Hardness for sapphire is 9, spinel 8, amethyst 7. Generally 8 or above gets recommended for rings, especially for regular wear - but there are plenty of rings between 7 and 8 floating around on this forum. Amethyst will also be far easier to find in a grape jelly purple -spinel or sapphire would take a longer and stretch your budget - the amethyst is very do-able. Could you find a picture of a gem you like the color of for us? There are different colors of grape jelly... Also is the gem for a ring or ?

 

[alicet]

amethyst is the most beautiful gem I have ever seen...and its color...so royal..

 

[pregcurious]

For under $500, in a larger size (9-12 mm), amethyst will be a good fit. To get the rich, grape jelly like color in sapphire, your budget will have to bigger; it is also difficult to find a purple sapphire. Purple sapphires are often not heated, and are often heated to produce blue sapphires.

As for spinels, they have a higher refractive index than both amethyst and sapphire, but in a dark color, it is difficult to see the sparkle. Spinels also tend to be gray, or cold looking, in darker colors, also spinels that do not have much grey and have good saturation do exist.

The main issue with the amethyst will be durability. Sapphire is much more durable at 9 Mohs. Here is a 1 carat purple sapphire, with a slightly assymetrically cut. Africa Gems tends to have higher prices, but I think the price on this is reasonable. The size, however, is lacking for your hunt:
http://www.africagems.com/cushion-purple-sapphire-g2k-855232.html?gclid=CO7g_-fa1b8CFaVZ7AodNEoAog

 

[katharath]

An ammy should be easy to find. Here's a purple spinel you might want to take a look at though!

http://www.gemrite.com/collections/gems/products/purple-spinel-2-44-cts

 

[LoversKites]

Brad at thegemtrader.com sometimes lists Zambian (known for a red flash) and Jackson's crossroad (known for blue flash) amethyst. I'd reach out to him and see what he has in stock. It will be well within your budget and you'll be able to get a large size too. I've always wanted one from him.

 

[mochiko42]

how about this one? Looks like a bit of a window but the color is nice.
It was still available as of July 3.

Also Julia B has some purple spinel but they are usually more lavender or pinkish purple.

 

[LoversKites]

how about this one? Looks like a bit of a window but the color is nice.
It was still available as of July 3.

Lucky find.

 

[chrono]

In terms of RI or sparkliness, I find that spinel has the most, sapphire next and amethyst the least, out of the three.
In terms of durability, sapphire is the most durable, followed by spinel with amethyst coming in last.
In terms of price, sapphire is the most expensive, spinel in the middle and amethyst the least.

1. Grape jelly purple - amethyst is your best bet. Some are red leaning, some are blue leaning, some have neither and a select few have both. It is harder to acquire sapphire and spinel with this characteristic.

2. Princess cut will be the most difficult to find and highly unrecommended due to the softer MOH coupled with the 4 pointy corners. Asscher is doable but most likely will require a custom cut commission. Cushion will take some work but is the easiest of the 3 shapes.

3. 6 mm is realistic. 9 - 12 mm will take more time and a healthier budget.

4. Under $500 is realistic for an amethyst, even a top one at around 9 mm but not realistic for a sapphire or spinel unless it is closer to 6 mm.

 

[dk168]

This is the Amethyst I have been lusting after:

Richard Homer's square emerald concave brilliant: http://www.concavegems.com/detail.cfm?zNum=2590

Concave cut is not everyone's cup of tea, however, I love it.

DK

 

[JewelFreak]

Colored stones don't have the brilliance of diamonds but they have other things diamonds don't. For saturated grape jelly color, amethysts can't be beat & they are beautiful in their own right. Sparkle isn't their strength -- depth of color is & more than compensates for sparkle. I bought one from Brad Payne at the Gem Trader that just sings to me -- I paid waaay under $500 & couldn't be happier. He's also one of the nicest people on the planet -- and very helpful. He has a lot of stuff that doesn't appear on his site, so emailing to ask is a great idea.

2.54 ct Zambian:


An amethyst, as compared to sapphire or purple spinel, will also leave you plenty of money for a super setting.

--- Laurie

 

[kimpnoth]

You all are amazing -- but I already knew that.

Attached are pictures of the color, one might even be the stone. These are about 11 mm. They are round . . . . . but the color. Vendor says they are primarily purple with blue secondary. Blue flashes, no red. Stone 1 is pretty clean. Stone 2 has a visible inclusion, but I have not yet learned to recognize an inclusion. I can see windows -- although sometimes I mistake a reflection for a window and vice versa. Windows bother me more than inclusions. The right inclusions can add character.

So, with an amethyst I don't need to worry about too much sparkle?

This would be for a ring.

Thoughts on these stones?

 

[chrono]

Yes, I agree that although amethyst is the least sparkly, it more than makes up for it with the intensity of colour and affordability. For all amethyst, purple will the primary colour. Whether you want a secondary red or blue is your choice. I do not see a window in the pictures you posted but I caution you to be more forgiving with amethyst. Another downside to the low RI is that it is a stone that will show a tilt window more easily. With good cutting and a richer colour, most people will not be able to see it nor be bothered by it. The nice thing with a round cut (especially with a very good cut and small table) is that your chance of seeing the tilt window becomes slimmer.

 

[kimpnoth]

Grrrrr. Colored stones are such a personal thing, and I just don't have the experience of having looked at a lot to pinpoint my own personal taste (although I have definite preferences). The jeweler I work with is also a "rock hound" and has an extensive collection. But not all are of the best quality. And he's really busy right now, I was going to wait until he has his gem show in December to have a better look. THE gem show was in my town last year -- but I didn't know I cared at the time. I had thought of a custom cut, but again, I'm afraid without more colored stone experience I could disappoint myself. I think I'm at the stage where I have to see it rather than imagine it. Although I'm definitely a custom kind of woman. My taste is frequently out of the mainstream. Anyway . . . ..

I'm concerned the stones for which I posted pictures might be too dark. My taste walks that fine line between rich, deep color with decent color in most light and that drab dreck in low light.

Chrono, are you saying these stones are well cut and worthy of a real life look?

Jewelfreak, is that ammy from the most recent TGT lot? I looked on 7/15 for the new stones. Nada. I looked 7/16. Nada. By 7/17 there was finally new stock, and the ammy was already reserved. I emailed to say I'd like to be on the wait list, but if that was your stone, I'm guessing I'll never hear from them. But I may contact them to see what else they have.

All others, thank you for validating my feeling that it probably needs to be an amethyst. Sapphires seem to have more the color I want, but, yup, that would be an investment for sure. I'd also have to decide to just keep looking and waiting for the right stone to show up. . . .which I still may do.

This forum is such a lovely source of knowledge.

 

[chrono]

Are you also in the US? If so, then there is little risk in ordering both stones to see if they are what you are looking for. The vendor has a good return/refund policy. As for Brad@TGT, he has many more stones not listed online so if you are hanking for one, email him to see what else he has available.

 

[marymm]

Not sure if you've seen this Zambian oval at MasterCutGems? http://www.mastercutgems.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=7776 The description says it is VS1 so I am assuming maybe those are fingerprint marks at the bottom/left of the stone but if you are interested in this stone I'd specifically confirm with Dana that the stone is free from visible inclusions. Dana may also have more Zambian rough so perhaps it is worth asking him if he has something suitable for a large cushion if that is your preference. (I bought a large beautifully-cut Zambian round from Dana a couple years ago, maybe 11mm? so pretty!)

 

[kimpnoth]

I did just see that -- and I'm at work and can't remember the first 4 characters of my paypal password. Although, I am really not partial to ovals, and query doesn't require paypal.

RE: Zambian Amethyst and blue or red flashes. I've seen stones described as Zambian and some say red flashes and some say blue. The color flash difference is just the nature of the stones from a particular deposit?

 

[chrono]

Varies from stone to stone, even if from the same deposit/mine.

 

[JewelFreak]

I bought my amethyst a while ago, so it's not the one on TGT now. (Btw, the black parts in my stone photo are camera reflection; it has no extinction.) Too bad it's snagged -- but Brad usually has quite a number of them in stock & if not, he can easily find more. If you're in the States, you could order a few and see how you like them, then send back what you don't want, or all of them. Most vendors used here are happy to do that. In fact, Brad sent me 3 or 4 without charge & I lived with them all under varying light conditions for a few days before choosing one & returning the rest. This may have been because I've done business with him for a while, but dealers usually will be very cooperative.

Everybody feels overwhelmed at first. It takes time & exposure to get an idea of what you like & dislike. Nobody's born knowing all this! I've been at it a few years but don't live where gem shows are held anywhere nearby, so still wish for the opportunity to eyeball the real thing in quantity. There are true gem experts here; wish I were one of them.

If you can send Brad or any other vendor a photo of the color you like, he can try to find similar stones for you to look at. They are great folks to ask for advice on color & saturation, etc., too -- the more they can educate customers, the better customers they have. Tell them you're on PS too. Don't feel rushed -- time is an advantage in our crazy world.

--- Laurie

 

[kimpnoth]

I have located a few amethysts that interest me. One appears to be the perfect stone, already sold. But at least I have a picture! I found a few other sold amethyst pictures that should also help me better communicate what I seek. I am in discussion with a few vendors. More questions.

One of the stones is quite deep. By deep, I mean it stands 10 mm bottom to top. What is the correct gemology term for deep in this context?

Am I correct in thinking this is could be a tad too deep for a ring stone? I'm thinking 7 mm is about the limit. Does anyone wear stones that sit 10-12 mm above the finger?

JewelFreak: how does your amethyst stand up in low light? BTW (chuckle), I think Brad sent all the stones to cohabit with you because of your business relationship. Can't imagine sending a complete stranger several hundred dollars worth of stones without some guarantee because they want to look at them.

Marymm: Is the color of your amethyst similar to the ones I posted? Is it Zambian? If so, it might be the same stock. How does yours perform in low light conditions? Can you tell it's purple? Any glow or flashes visible?

Chrono, JewelFreak, Marymm did you have your stones set?

I had a bright (maybe) idea to get to a similar and similarly sized second stone so I could wear the heck of one, then swap it out to polished. Does that make sense? I would wear the right stone a lot -- but my rings go on when I leave the house, and come off when I come home and I don't wear them for inappropriate activities (or remove them before participating).

Thank you.

Kim

 

[chrono]

What is the face up measurement of the stone? Depending on the carat weight, it could be 10 mm in depth without being considered overly deep. Also note that because amethyst is a stone with low RI, it needs that depth to work with (high crown with small table and etc for a smaller tilt window).

I have not set my amethyst because I don't know how I want it to be set yet. It is also very deep at 7 mm for a 4 ct stone.

 

[T L]

I'm going to talk about fine amethyst because it is still not out of people's price range, and you don't have to be wealthy to afford one.

Fine amethyst should not be a flat purple, it should have lots of blue and red in it, and be of a medium dark tone, but not too dark where it's almost black. I've seen very dark toned amethyst with red and blue flash, but the very dark tone ruined the stone. Synthetic amethyst can look like fine amethyst, so be careful, and know your source.

Zambian Amethyst.

 

[kimpnoth]

What is the face up measurement of the stone? Depending on the carat weight, it could be 10 mm in depth without being considered overly deep. Also note that because amethyst is a stone with low RI, it needs that depth to work with (high crown with small table and etc for a smaller tilt window).

The stone is 13 x 13 mm. So maybe not overly deep for the size. 10 mm above the finger seems a tad, um, high. Yes, and I was wondering if the depth was related not just to the size of the stone, but also to the nature of the stone.

 

[chrono]

13 x 13 x 10 mm is deep. Mine is 12 x 12 x 7 mm.

 

[indigoblue]

13 x 13 x 10 mm is deep. Mine is 12 x 12 x 7 mm.

Show her a picture, Chrono. I drool every time I see it.

I bought two amethysts from Finewater Gems. He custom cut them for me, and they were $200 each.

 

[kimpnoth]

Mmmmmmmmm. The Nambian is the color I want. Did you set them? Do you wear them? Thank you for reminding me that more is available beyond what is on the websites.

Chrono, I've seen the picture and checking out the measurements is what made question the depth of the stone I saw.

Let's not get people too hyped on amethyst until I've found my stone. I would still love to hear other's experience with the virtues, sins, color variations, and general properties of the stone.

 

[Indylady]

Kim--I would be wary of a very large and deep stone for a ring, since it will sit pretty high off the finger. For an occasional wear ring, that's fine and the times you might bump the ring around are limited since you won't wear it often. If you plant to wear it often, I would chose a stone that isn't as deep.

TL--your Amethyst is gorgeous!! I've always wanted a nice one.

 

[indigoblue]

I bought them for my daughters whose birthday is in February. A local jeweler set them in pendants.

 

[T L]

Kim--I would be wary of a very large and deep stone for a ring, since it will sit pretty high off the finger. For an occasional wear ring, that's fine and the times you might bump the ring around are limited since you won't wear it often. If you plant to wear it often, I would chose a stone that isn't as deep.

TL--your Amethyst is gorgeous!! I've always wanted a nice one.

Thank you Indy.

 

[kimpnoth]

Indigo: the pendants are lovely. I hope your enjoy them. Twins, huh?

TL: your ring is impressive. What are the stats on the stone? Do you wear it often?

Thank you all.