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HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every............

moneyring

Rough_Rock
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Long time lurker and finally decided to partake in another e-ring hunt :). I am in search for the perfect e-ring. I need everyone's help with this search. Here is the criteria that I have slyly inquired from my GF.

Timeframe: 2-6 months
Shape: Round Brilliant
Carat: 1.80-2.10
Color: H or better
-- She can't tell the difference between a G from a H but can tell a F from a G / and a F from a H.
Clarity: SI1 or better
-- Must be eye clean and partially mind clean (she states she doesn't mind white inclusions but knowing that there are black minerals in the diamond irks her... she said a few black inclusions, say 2-3, are fine but any more it would bother her)
Cut: Ideal cut (AGS0 or GIA triple EX with HCA under 2) +/- H&A
-- All she said was she wants it to "sparkle"; I, however, would want to make this the important criteria (e.g table 54-57, depth 60-62, optimal polish, and symmetry)
Cost: Like any normal person, I am looking to save as much as possible but willing to spend up to $25k for the diamond

Setting: She fell in love with this. http://www.shaneco.com/Jewelry-Cata...SEARCH&X=41045152&nid=GN_Header_Search_Button
-- I would also prefer to get the setting and diamond from the same vendor for the various reasons mentioned from previous threads

I have already used the PS search and have a few diamonds that might fit the criteria. Instead of posting them off the bat, I'm hoping you, the experts, will reply wtih those same diamond(s) to help solidify my choices. Please let me know which diamond you would select and why.

Questions I have:
1) How often do <2.00 ct diamonds come on the market? In terms of saving money, I think going <2.00 ct would be save me $$$. Selections seem a little limited to what I gathered and maybe the inventory is low?
2) Is it common to see a 1.80+ ct diamond on a thin band? The ShaneCo setting is 1.8mm thick. Would it look funky? She has small fingers also (size 4).

As promised, I will donate $1 for every reply I get on this thread to my favorite charity, Feed for America, up to $100. With such a big purchase, I'm hoping to get as much feedback as I can before I make this purchase and this is a WIN-WIN for everyone :D I'm looking forward to reading up on everyone's comments :)
 

MissGotRocks

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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-search-results/

This comes from quickly using the search tool at the top of the page. I asked for stones in 1.8 - 2.1 carat range, G-H color, VS2-SI1 and checked the AGS box for AGS graded stones. You can see there are several stones that popped up; you can begin to get a feel for the price difference before and after the 2 carat mark. These are all well cut stones - ACA is Whiteflash's branded cut but the Expert Selection stones just missed the ACA designation by a minor item and represent a well cut stone at a bit of a better value. It just so happened that all of these are from the same vendor but you can adjust these parameters to include different sizes, colors and clarities and can also search different individual vendors on your own for more selections. You can search Good Old Gold, James Allen, High Performance Diamonds and Brian Gavin Diamonds just to name a few.

If you find a stones that you are really interested in, post them here for suggestions and advice.
 

starryeyed

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

Hi moneyring and welcome! :wavey:

MissGotRocks has given you some excellent advice. Most people here would caution you to stick with AGS or GIA certs.

I'm really just replying so your favorite charity gets another dollar. :)

Keep us posted what you find!
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

While it is really nice to donate to charity offering rewards for help is against the spirit of PS.
We are happy to help you for nothing more than a thank you and pictures when you get it.
 

RockyRacoon

Brilliant_Rock
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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

Alright - I was able to find 3 prime candidates.

All of these have a top-notch cut, include a Lifetime Guarantee, and are under budget!

2.13ct, H, SI1
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12329/

1.90ct, F, VS1

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12405/

1.85ct, G, VS2
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12251/

If I were you, I would reach out to Good Old Gold and have them make me a video of those 3 stones side-by-side. That way, you would be able to use your own eyes to compare and match up with the paper specs. Any of those 3 are winners, so you can't really go wrong.

Best of luck!
 

Candygrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

Love the 2.13 that RockyRaccoon posted. Not an expert, but it is gorgeous :love:
 

Gypsy

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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

RockyRacoon|1406045410|3718282 said:
Alright - I was able to find 3 prime candidates.

All of these have a top-notch cut, include a Lifetime Guarantee, and are under budget!

2.13ct, H, SI1
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12329/


YUM! This would be my choice hands down!
 

diamondseeker2006

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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

Gypsy|1406058271|3718433 said:
RockyRacoon|1406045410|3718282 said:
Alright - I was able to find 3 prime candidates.

All of these have a top-notch cut, include a Lifetime Guarantee, and are under budget!

2.13ct, H, SI1
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12329/


YUM! This would be my choice hands down!

Yep, easy choice! I'd reserve that baby before it disappears! It is at the top of the size range, which is a very good thing.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

Oh, and in addition, GOG carries MANY brands of settings. I think you can get a MUCH better quality one than the one you linked, but you need to allow more money for that.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

teobdl|1406065321|3718529 said:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.27-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-310791

Strangely, they have a GIA report, but it says there is AGS. It might have both reports, just ask.

It's GIA I color and AGS H apparently!!!!
 

lioness

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Messages
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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

diamondseeker2006|1406061983|3718495 said:
Oh, and in addition, GOG carries MANY brands of settings. I think you can get a MUCH better quality one than the one you linked, but you need to allow more money for that.

+1. I just took a quick peek at their settings page and there are many similar settings to the one she likes, and far better quality.
 

teobdl

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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

Good catch, DS. That pretty much settles it, for me. In that color range, we have now seen, I think, 5 diamonds in a row with dual reports in which AGS grades color 1 higher than GIA. Assuming a 50% probability of one lab grading higher or lower, the probability of this happening is 0.03, which is statistically significant. Please, AGS vendors, we need data to settle this. Until this point, I have been very doubtful that they grade color differently.
AGS 0 already carries a premium. Now, you are also paying extra for equivalent color.
 

RockyRacoon

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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

teobdl|1406070217|3718592 said:
Good catch, DS. That pretty much settles it, for me. In that color range, we have now seen, I think, 5 diamonds in a row with dual reports in which AGS grades color 1 higher than GIA. Assuming a 50% probability of one lab grading higher or lower, the probability of this happening is 0.03, which is statistically significant. Please, AGS vendors, we need data to settle this. Until this point, I have been very doubtful that they grade color differently.
AGS 0 already carries a premium. Now, you are also paying extra for equivalent color.

If you know anything about statistics you know that this is far too small of a sample size to draw any real conclusion. Regardless of the alpha, this is statistically meaningless.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

RockyRacoon|1406071481|3718611 said:
teobdl|1406070217|3718592 said:
Good catch, DS. That pretty much settles it, for me. In that color range, we have now seen, I think, 5 diamonds in a row with dual reports in which AGS grades color 1 higher than GIA. Assuming a 50% probability of one lab grading higher or lower, the probability of this happening is 0.03, which is statistically significant. Please, AGS vendors, we need data to settle this. Until this point, I have been very doubtful that they grade color differently.
AGS 0 already carries a premium. Now, you are also paying extra for equivalent color.

If you know anything about statistics you know that this is far too small of a sample size to draw any real conclusion. Regardless of the alpha, this is statistically meaningless.

It certainly statistically insignificant, but I find it amazingly coincidental that virtually EVERY diamond I have seen posted here or in my own experience with both reports had a color grade higher from AGS!!!!
 

teobdl

Brilliant_Rock
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Messages
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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

Woah--Sorry I typed that so hastily and, as you rightly pointed out, incorrectly. the thoughts in my head were closer to "which would be statistically signficant if we had a bigger sample size" and then the sentence re: need help from vendors for more data.

EDIT: and now that i'm reading that over, womp womp, i'm thinking I need to go back to my basic stats books. it's been a number of long day and even longer time since stats. no need to point out the errors in stats testing.
 

WinkHPD

Ideal_Rock
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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

teobdl|1406070217|3718592 said:
Good catch, DS. That pretty much settles it, for me. In that color range, we have now seen, I think, 5 diamonds in a row with dual reports in which AGS grades color 1 higher than GIA. Assuming a 50% probability of one lab grading higher or lower, the probability of this happening is 0.03, which is statistically significant. Please, AGS vendors, we need data to settle this. Until this point, I have been very doubtful that they grade color differently.
AGS 0 already carries a premium. Now, you are also paying extra for equivalent color.

I would like to bring this post from John Pollard to bear on this comment: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/2-69ct-g-vvs2-worries-feather-natural-ags-color-clarity.203189/#p3698017']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/2-69ct-g-vvs2-worries-feather-natural-ags-color-clarity.203189/#p3698017[/URL]

To make it easy for you I am also going to copy the pertinent information from two posts John made in that thread. The gist is this: OF COURSE you ONLY hear about “soft” AGS Reports. The others get lost, buried or burned.

Quote:

First hand experience here. We regularly submit to both labs.

Short answer: AGSL is not loose. I can describe why that comment makes the rounds though.

We all know color and clarity are subjective and occur on a sliding scale. That means any "G" diamond can be G+ or G- compared to F and H. It's the same with clarity. This is why a +/- 1 grade tolerance between educated professionals is expressed as reasonable. For an educated submitter there will be three possible results for any given diamond’s color and clarity: (1) The lab’s grade is in-line with the submitter’s grade (2) The lab’s grade is stricter than the submitters grade (3) The lab’s grade is softer than the submitter’s grade.

How do submitters approach discrepancies? Generalized...

* When GIA is stricter the submitter requests a re-check. That request might be captioned "Beg pardon m'lord…please forgive me…but are you certain?.-“
* When AGSL is stricter the re-check may be demanded with frowning face, hands-on-hips, and even "Ahem…GIA would give this (desired-grade).-“
* Alternately, when GIA is softer the submitter’s reaction is wide-eyes, a finger to the lips and “Shhh…we received a gift.-”
* But when AGSL is softer the reaction is to pick up the phone, call some friends and brag about the “improvement.-”

While dramatizations, the synopses above are constantly playing on diamond-world-Broadway. In essence, GIA “gifts” are hush-hush, because no one wants to devalue the perception of GIA’s strictness. AGSL “gifts” are far more gossiped-about, even by people who never use the lab.

What's certain: A submitter will receive “gifts” and “downgrades” from any lab on the planet, no matter how strict. It’s unavoidable due to subjectivity. Therefore, the happiest submitters are those making pre-grading purchases (rough or polished) knowing already where the “G” sits (closer to F or H), where the “SI1” sits (closer to VS2 or SI2) etc... Even then there will be outliers in the results, but a production team with enough skill and experience can accurately predict what’s coming back – from both labs – around 90% of the time or better.

End Quote:

This was followed by a second post also addressing the issue of consistency:

Quote:

Another point can be made regarding consistency. Any lab, no matter how efficient, produces outliers and exceptions which deviate by one or more degrees from the median, despite best efforts. In that sense AGSL has a single lab location grading appx 200,000.- diamonds per year. By contrast GIA has seven locations with hundreds of graders, now grading between 2-4 million diamonds per year.

A common sense exercise, comparing 3,850 diamonds graded-per-week (in 1 location) to circa 60,000.- diamonds graded-per-week (across 7 locations) makes it no stretch to presume AGSL’s output to be statistically more consistent - with less deviation from the median - than the all-told of GIA.

So while the smaller market-share of AGSL may be a disadvantage, compared to the unarguable size and recognition GIA commands, there are advantages with AGSL in terms of consistency which can be appreciated on a diamond-by-diamond basis.

End Quote:

I hear and see these comments frequently, yet I too have had diamonds graded more harshly by AGS than GIA. I had a diamond graded by GIA to be an SI2 and by AGS to be an I1. Since cut is my king I sold it with the AGS paper, but it cost me nearly $2,000 to do so.

Wink
 

moneyring

Rough_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

Thank you for everyone's replies!

I narrowed it down to the following diamonds

2.13ct, H, SI1 $24,537
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12329/
- This seems like everyone's favorite but with a SI1, it may not be mind clean (possible black inclusions which I would need to double check with GOG). I'm going to call them tomorrow morning to reserve these babies.

1.85ct, G, VS2 $23,826
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12251/
-

1.867ct, H, VS1 $23,040
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3172003.htm

How does the 1.867 ct ACA WF compare to the GOG ones?
 

Dancing Fire

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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

IMO, just a hit or miss depending on who was working at the lab that day. I don't mind buying either lab if the stone is well cut.
 

starryeyed

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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

moneyring|1406077105|3718687 said:
Thank you for everyone's replies!

I narrowed it down to the following diamonds

2.13ct, H, SI1 $24,537
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12329/
- This seems like everyone's favorite but with a SI1, it may not be mind clean (possible black inclusions which I would need to double check with GOG). I'm going to call them tomorrow morning to reserve these babies.

1.85ct, G, VS2 $23,826
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12251/
-

1.867ct, H, VS1 $23,040
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3172003.htm

How does the 1.867 ct ACA WF compare to the GOG ones?
You may want to keep in mind that the 2.13 ct has Med Blue fluorescence. Some say that may make the stone appear whiter. To some it's desirable, to some it's not. If you look at the microscope images, you can see the inclusions - they seem minor, but you should ask. Looks like a fantastic stone.

About inclusions - I have a VS2 and love my inclusions. I can't see them AT ALL, hardly even with a loupe. With greater magnification I see them, but they are what makes my diamond totally unique. I think of them as my diamond's beauty marks.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

I find it interesting that John said this:

"First hand experience here. We regularly submit to both labs."

So basically they are regularly sending stones to both labs so that they can sell with the report that will bring them more profit, I assume? Why else would one send diamonds to two labs?

Technically there is nothing wrong with that, unless you are the consumer paying for a diamond based on one report, and when you go to sell that diamond, you have a possibility of getting an appraisal or second lab grading report that is lower which will cost you money.

So fine. I can buy into the fact that AGS is a little softer on color but stricter on clarity, but a lot of times, a higher color grade will bring the higher price (maybe not with I1's). I am sure grading discrepancy mostly happens with borderline stones.

We have seen many threads here of AGS being softer on color and virtually none with GIA turning out with the lower color, so that is enough for me to be cautious when I buy stones. But if that is not enough, the fact that vendors here are admitting they send to more than one lab should be reason to get second opinions on color grading before buying. I certainly do not intend to pay for the higher color grade when a stone gets a lower grade from the other reputable lab.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

moneyring|1406077105|3718687 said:
Thank you for everyone's replies!

I narrowed it down to the following diamonds

2.13ct, H, SI1 $24,537
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12329/
- This seems like everyone's favorite but with a SI1, it may not be mind clean (possible black inclusions which I would need to double check with GOG). I'm going to call them tomorrow morning to reserve these babies.

1.85ct, G, VS2 $23,826
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12251/
-

1.867ct, H, VS1 $23,040
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3172003.htm

How does the 1.867 ct ACA WF compare to the GOG ones?

All of the stones are nice, and certainly an ACA is an outstanding stone. But your GF sounds like she'd enjoy the larger size over having VS1 clarity, so I am going to have to stick with the 2.13 H if they say it is totally eyeclean. That stone is a GIA H and has a little fluorescence which may boost the color, so I think it will turn out to be a great choice in terms of color. It is also significantly larger than the other two stones.
 

John P

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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

diamondseeker2006|1406080386|3718723 said:
I find it interesting that John said this:

"First hand experience here. We regularly submit to both labs."

So basically they are regularly sending stones to both labs so that they can sell with the report that will bring them more profit, I assume? Why else would one send diamonds to two labs?
No. That's an erroneous interpretation. We don't have the time for nonsense like that.

The diamonds we produce are either sent to AGSL or GIA, depending on the client and their target-market. Our output of branded "Crafted By Infinity" diamonds sold in the USA all pass through AGSL. Other clients in overseas markets prefer GIA reports for their diamonds. Those clients sell in places where AGSL is not-known. No diamond goes to both labs.

The point being made: We craft and analyze every diamond the same way. Paul and Lieve personally track every stone from raw-material and planning through final polish. We know how (example) diamonds 1-50, all going to AGSL, are expected to grade - and how diamonds 51-100, all going to GIA, are expected to grade. It then becomes a simple matter to check the results of the lab graders, who spent a few minutes with the diamonds, against our internal grading which was based on months of planning and experience.

Simply put, we are far more consistent, internally. Resultantly, we have strong insight into the strictness and consistency of those labs, and even the different locations of GIA.
 

RockyRacoon

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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

teobdl|1406072465|3718622 said:
Woah--Sorry I typed that so hastily and, as you rightly pointed out, incorrectly. the thoughts in my head were closer to "which would be statistically signficant if we had a bigger sample size" and then the sentence re: need help from vendors for more data.

EDIT: and now that i'm reading that over, womp womp, i'm thinking I need to go back to my basic stats books. it's been a number of long day and even longer time since stats. no need to point out the errors in stats testing.

My apologies for any harshness.

I re-read my comment and realize I may have come across as curt.

I definitely agree with you that the issue warrants further investigation, so we can get that sample size to something significant!
 

RockyRacoon

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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

moneyring|1406077105|3718687 said:
Thank you for everyone's replies!

I narrowed it down to the following diamonds

2.13ct, H, SI1 $24,537
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12329/
- This seems like everyone's favorite but with a SI1, it may not be mind clean (possible black inclusions which I would need to double check with GOG). I'm going to call them tomorrow morning to reserve these babies.

1.85ct, G, VS2 $23,826
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12251/
-

Update us once you have the additional info and/or video!
 

AprilBaby

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

The 2.13 is gorgeous, the 1.86 ACA is more mind clean. Tough choice! I think I would go for the size!
 

moneyring

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Messages
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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

I've got pictures! So far, both GOG and WF consultants have been extremely helpful. I narrowed it down to the following:

1.867ct, H, VS1 $23,040
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3172003.htm
Per WF, "All of the inclusions that I could see were white, there are no black inclusions visible with 10x.
There are no inclusions visible without magnification, in any lighting or angle of view. They are very difficult to find with magnification as well.
"



Would you agree this is a high H in color?

2.13ct, H, SI1 $24,537
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12329/
- Per GOG, the consultant states, "I am very surprised it received a grade of SI1 and not VS2 because the diamond is 100% eye clean and even with a loop, they are hard to see (most SI1's are obvious under the loop). Regarding the inclusions, there are several small inclusions throughout the diamond. 90% of them are white. The 10% are slightly darker (not jet black, but between gray and black). Regardless, they are eye clean as I mentioned."




I am leaning towards getting the 1.867ct H VS1 (due to mind clean clarity, great cut). I know these are top of the line diamonds but if you had to nick pick or name three issues with the 1.867, what would it be? Or why would the 2.13ct be better suited for my GF

sbs_2.jpg

tray_1.jpg

ags-104070154003_ags-ags-104071965005_hand.jpg

size_comp.jpg
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

There is enough of a size difference that I would go for the bigger stone personally - they are telling you it is 100% eye clean that means it IS eye clean, if you are unsure get it before it is set, look at it and make sure you are happy with it if not GOG is great they will refund the amount if you find it is not clean enough for you.
 

Gypsy

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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

No way. I'd go for the 2 carat. Listen. Most women would EASILY give up a little bit of mind clean to be able to pull out that rock and say "It's over two carats" with confidence.


The stone will be gorgeous. And I trust GOG when they say that the stone is clean and bright and gorgeous. GO FOR THE BIGGER STONE!
 

ElleElle

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Re: HELP ME FIND THE ONE! I will DONATE $1 for every........

The bigger stone!!! She'll thank you forever!
 
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