Missile Shoots Down Malaysian Passenger Jet Over Ukraine

[AGBF]

298 people were killed when a missile , deliberately fired at a passenger jet flying over Ukraine, caused it to explode and crash yesterday. The people who apparently fired the missile did not appear to be aware that they were firing at at a civilian aircraft when they did so, but neither did they care. Whether more blame for this lies on the airline for flying over a war zone or on the people who shot down the aircraft, it is obviously a tragedy of huge proportions.

I just listened to several audiotapes purporting to be between "Ukraine Separatists" and "militants" as they were described in the US press (with the aid of Cyrillic written translations beneath them which I could read even less well than I could understand the audio and also English written translations). In one of the tapes a man says that, "the cossacks who are based in the village of Chernukhino shot it (the Malaysian jetliner) down".

No one has commented on this yet. What are you thinking? This and the ground invasion of Gaza have been staring us in the face for the past couple of days.

Deb/AGBF

 

[missy]

I am thinking how desensitized so many people are about the value and loss of human lives. We see it all around us in the news, in the papers, in real life. Local violence killing kids and global violence killing countless others. It takes on a surreal feeling.

When 9/11 happened I couldn't believe it for weeks and months in fact. The horrific loss of so many for no valid (is there ever a valid reason for the loss of innocent lives) reason whatsoever. Politics, religion, intolerance towards others for being different.

My heart and brain aches when I think about it for any longer than a moment and I guess I block it out because there is only so much I can take. My heart breaks for all those who have lost loved ones for any reason but to lose them for such a senseless reason is all the more painful. And to me at least loss of lives due to senseless reasons continues to abound.

 

[justginger]

I was surprised to see that no one had posted about this when I was online earlier, but I didn't have time to do so myself.

Australia is reeling from this. Nearly 30 Australians on board, making it the second or third largest air fatality for the country. Not to mention the fact that at least one of the families in QLD who lost members in the previous MH tragedy has also lost more in this one.

Some airlines have been quick to state that they had already been avoiding this airspace -- but there are plenty of others who have not. This is not a situation unique to Malaysian. You can see on radar how other conflict areas are being avoided (over Iraq, Gaza, etc)...not at all. I think Malaysian Air bears no responsibility for this situation. It feels like victim blaming. I guess they shouldn't have been wearing that short skirt, hey? No. This is entirely the fault of the individuals who willingly murdered nearly 300 innocent travellers, not the company who chose to maintain a flight path at 33,000 feet through an area that had not been deemed a no-fly zone.

Besides the terrible loss of lives, the additional fact that multiple passengers were HIV/AIDS experts and researchers headed to their yearly international conference in Melbourne is an additional blow. I very much hope all of their work can be carried on by competent colleagues.

 

[chrono]

I was stunned by the news yesterday and I don't think MAS should be shouldering the blame on this one. I am sorry for all the lives lost in a senseless manner.

 

[Autumnovember]

I was completely horrified when I found out about this during work yesterday. All of the heartbreak families must be going through after this massive loss...just awful. I am deeply saddened by the turmoil going on in the country I was born in angry all at the same time.

 

[AGBF]

Some airlines have been quick to state that they had already been avoiding this airspace -- but there are plenty of others who have not. This is not a situation unique to Malaysian. You can see on radar how other conflict areas are being avoided (over Iraq, Gaza, etc)...not at all. I think Malaysian Air bears no responsibility for this situation. It feels like victim blaming. I guess they shouldn't have been wearing that short skirt, hey? No. This is entirely the fault of the individuals who willingly murdered nearly 300 innocent travellers, not the company who chose to maintain a flight path at 33,000 feet through an area that had not been deemed a no-fly zone.

I do not know if the map I am citing, which derived from the FAA, will post. It shows the route that the Malaysian Airlines flight was on, which was one that, supposedly, many other airlines were using. Right before it was shot down Russia is said to have closed four air lanes, one of which was a continuation of this flight path.

From, "The New York Times":

"The Malaysian plane was flying on an active route used by commercial airlines every day. Hours before the crash, Russia closed four airways near the Ukrainian border, including one that was a continuation of Flight 17’s route."

Rostov is the focal point of those pale grey lines.

 

[justginger]

It has now been confirmed that four of the passengers were a Perth grandfather and his three grandchildren, ages 12, 10, and 8. They had been vacationing in Europe with the children's parents, who were flying home separately via the US. My heart just aches for them.

Also, they estimate 100 of the victims were indeed on their way to the HIV/AIDS conference, a devastating blow for that area of research. Who knows if one of them would have one day created a vaccine?

 

[AGBF]

This chart shows the flight paths of several airlines on the same route. As you can see, some avoided Ukraine, others flew over it. I have been poring over maps as if this would solve the philosophical questions, although I know it will not and cannot. There is also a map showing the no-fly zones over the Ukraine/Russia conflict zone that the European and the United States authorities (in the case of the US it is the FAA) have been using . They are nowhere near where the plane was shot down; they are near Crimea. That those zones were far from where the plane was shot down did not keep the British, French, and Thai airlines from avoiding Ukraine entirely, however. They flew assiduously around it.

The chart did not post well, so I had to delete it.

 

[AGBF]

I had a really busy day. When I finally got home and logged onto Pricescope, I went right to Hangout. I didn't see this thread in Hangout and thought it must have been deleted. My fantasy ran to there having been a politically motivated argument and Ella having deleted it in my absence! I was stunned to see that it had simply fallen way down the list of popular threads with my last posting being the last thing anyone said.

What I take from my distorted view of how Pricescopers were looking at the same thread I was is that I am seriously out of step with others!

I was due at an appointment with my daughter at 12:30 today at a place that was at least a 20 minute drive from my house. But when I got home at 11:55 AM in a Jeep loaded with groceries I had to unload, President Obama was coming on the radio. I sat in my driveway, riveted to the radio while he made his entire speech. Only when he had finished and started to take questions did I feel I could get out of the car and start unloading my packages. This downing of the plane was momentous to me and I wanted to hear everything that the president had to say!

I don't know if I should be psychoanalyzing myself. Why is this so important in my eyes? Or if I should be looking at others: why does it not seem as momentous to everyone?

It reminds me of Hitler's invasion of Poland on September 1, 1939 when he wanted to get back Danzig and the Polish Corridor. I see Vladimir Putin as making his move to take back the lands of the old Soviet Union the way Hitler was bent on taking back the land Germany lost during World War I. Am I crazy?

Deb/AGBF

 

[Candygrl]

It's a huge deal to me too! I've been watching CNN every chance I get. This is such a huge huge tragedy. I start to tear up and my heart hurts every time I think about the heart ache their families are feeling right now. I just don't understand such hate. Sometimes I just want to put myself in a bubble

 

[VRBeauty]

AGBF - it may just be that posting about it doesn't change anything, and sometimes all you can say about something this horrific simply comes out as sounding trite. I don't think that people not posting equates indicates some sort of indifference.

I was waiting for a passenger list to be publishes as I have many relatives in Holland, some of whom routinely travel internationally on business. Fortunately none of them were on this flight. http://www.scribd.com/doc/234401036/MH17-passenger-list My heart goes out to the people who were on the flight, and especially to their loved ones.

I remember being at work on the morning of 9-11, checking my computer frequently, expecting our agency's Executive Officer to say something about what had happened. He did not, other than to announce the building's early closure later that day. During a conversation about that later on he simply said - what could I say?

 

[AprilBaby]

Reading about the individuals and seeing their pictures breaks my heart. What has humanity come to?

 

[AGBF]

I need to discuss things. I remember how we talked ourselves silly here on Pricescope during the presidential debates in 2008. I am sure it didn't affect the outcome of the presidential elections, but I needed to do it. So did a lot of other Pricescopers. (Or at least they wanted to do it.) I was also at my computer-on a diamond forum-when the first plane hit on September 11, 2001. A jeweler, Juan Lozano, from Mexico, who was also a pilot, was on-line at the same time on the same forum. It was he who called that first plane hitting as not normal before the the news media did. I stayed on-line all day. It was I who told my husband and his fellow workers about the terrorism: they were all away from their Wall Street offices on a work retreat in rural Massachusetts!

Deb

 

[mochiko42]

Hi Deb,

I've been following the news too, but really I am without words. People can blame Putin for arming the Donetsk rebel militants with those weapons, but really it seems like a never ending cycle that you see over and over again. I am not a fan of Putin but in general, it's not just us vs them, good vs evil. Who armed the Afghani Taliban in the 70s? Part of the reason there are rebel fighting in Syria, Egypt and Libya now is because there were dictators ruling for way too long who were propped up by the US and other powers. This is obviously a simplistic view as I am not a political expert, but yeah.... I don't know.. Nobody did anything about south Ossetia.. Just sat back and let Putin take it.. But at the same time it's been a region that has long and complicated relationship with mother Russia. Also what about China's suppression and economic and cultural marginalization of the Uighurs in Xinjiang.. And if I want to be extra controversial, how about Northern Ireland? Ah.. It's too depressing anyway.. I am not qualified to discuss matters like this.. Sigh..

 

[Sky56]

It's all been on my mind a lot - the jet and Gaza. My heart breaks. Thanks for posting, Deb.

I heard on my car radio today that a group of the world's top experts on AIDS died in the Malaysian jet crash. They were on their way to a conference in Australia.

 

[mochiko42]

It's all been on my mind a lot - the jet and Gaza. My heart breaks. Thanks for posting, Deb.

I heard on my car radio today that a group of the world's top experts on AIDS died in the Malaysian jet crash. They were on their way to a conference in Australia.

Yes I heard that too. I just wish people would stop killing each other. This is crazy.

 

[TC1987]

I was at the computer when the news broke about the plane. I go over to pprune.org and read their discussions.

Yeah, the world is full of crackpots and madmen. The problem is they kill off the wrong people, instead of crackpots and madmen.

 

[rosetta]

I've been posting on other forums about this. Tragic. The whole thing made my blood run cold when I first heard the news.

 

[Sophie2788]

I am terribly affected by this,
I did not know anyone on board however one passenger that passed grew up an hour away from me, which to me feels strange,
I'm mostly affected because honestly what a horrible horrible way for anyone to die. And the conversations recorded afterwards by the shooters makes me sick. At what point is it ok to kill someone for flying in your air space, is that what our world is ? At what point does it matter that this person was an aids expert (a tragic loss indeed) or that this person was a university student from Indonesia, they both were innocent they both were on the plain, approx 80 children were on that flight. We know that 3 babies were on board hence the death toll originally being 295 & going up to $298 (children under 2 need to sit on an adults lap) those kids could of been anything and taking children's life's you don't know what kind of affect that has on our future, one of those kids could of been the person to cure cancer. Parent were lost, friends, aunties, uncles, children grandfathers it's just truly tragic. Now me being me and looking for more information came across videos of the wreckage that were not censored. I saw the bodies up close and it was so strange to see how they ended up some worse than others but all of them dead 298 bodies laying there with locals walking around them like it was nothing, no emotion. What makes this even worse, all valuables and money were stolen from the passengers luggage and obviously if they had there clothes on or jewellery on people tampered with their bodies to take it. Not a single cent was found in any of the wallets recovered. I have a mum, I have 3 kids, I have a partner and I have friends and to think that they or anyone could die in such a way makes me so incredibly sad as to what kind of world we live in, I don't understand how anyone can not be affected by this regardless of weather the people on board were known to you / from your country. I don't know what the point of this post is but I guess I just started writing and forgot ...

 

[arkieb1]

It is sad for all of the families who have lost loved ones and for an airline that was already struggling to deal with one tragedy. I hope that all of our International P/S members & their families are safe.

 

[JaneSmith]

Way back when the Olympics were on and Putin was trying to annex Ukraine politically and it backfired, I was worried that I was witnessing the start of another European war and/or Cold War 2.
This is a terrible escalation with a devastating price. I think that all ex-USSR countries should feel very afraid.

Deb, I find discussing world events satisfying and interesting. I'm not always on PS though, and miss many threads.

 

[pregcurious]

It's so horrible. I have no adequate words.

 

[kenny]

I'm putin the blame on Putin.

 

[chrono]

I haven't been keeping up to date but glanced at the news this morning that negotiations resulted in the black box and some bodies being released. I have no idea what the deal included but am very glad that at least there is forward movement towards closure of some sort.

 

[monarch64]

The Dutch/U.S. citizen killed was a student here in my town. Her research had to do with an anti-cancer drug as well as a drug to potentially be used to treat Alzheimer's.

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2014/07/18/iu-student-board-malaysia-airlines-flight-shot-ukraine/12828171/