Need serious help on 2 diamonds! All the NB info is here!

[henri]

Hey guys

Firstly thanks for the great resource on this website, can not even imagine how I would've managed without it!
Secondly, this website has also confused me a little bit as there is so much information! I have done quite a lot of research, some good initial stones that I've looked at, I just need some final input from the PS experts, which will also help me decide if something else is found. Jewellers can sometimes be subjective (or maybe I am). I have already decided on a 18k WG palladium setting with RB solitaire (Protea design - check Browns.co.za). I have found these two stones:

1) Measurements: 5.84 - 5.86 x 3.73 mm
Carat Weight: 0.80 carat
Color Grade: H
Clarity Grade: VS2
Cut Grade: Very Good
Depth: 63.7%
Table: 59%
Crown Angle: 36.0°
Crown Height: 15.0%
Pavilion Angle: 41.6°
Pavilion Depth: 44.0%
Star Length: 55%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Medium to Thick, Faceted, 5.0%
Culet: None
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Crystal, Cloud, Feather

HCA Score:
Light Return: Good
Fire: Poor
Scintillation: Fair
Spread: Good
Total Visual Performance 5.6 - Good - Only if price is your main criterion
PRICE: $3400

2) 6.35 - 6.38 x 3.69 mm
Carat Weight: 0.90 carat
Color Grade: G
Clarity Grade: SI2
Cut Grade: Very Good
Depth: 58.0%
Table: 60%
Crown Angle: 32.0°
Crown Height: 12.5%
Pavilion Angle: 40.6°
Pavilion Depth: 42.5%
Star Length: 50%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Medium, Faceted, 3.0%
Culet: None
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None
Feather
HCA Score:
Light Return: Very Good
Fire: Excellent
Scintillation: Excellent
Spread: Excellent
Total Visual Performance 1.6 - Excellent
within BIC range
PRICE $4000

What is important to me: I want a colour of H or better, at least 0.80 ct size. The two features that I am willing to play with is cut and clarity. But after doing some research it seems that cut is more important, and it is very difficult to see inclusions, even down to SI2. Hence the SI2 G. According to some posts on this website the proportions of these diamonds are not ideal. My questions:
1) Is it worth going for a more expensive G SI2 with the same cut grading but a much better HCA score?
2) Will I really be able to see the HCA differences in these two diamonds when the 80 H VS2 is more affordable?
3) Does the 80 H VS2 shortcomings with its proportions really matter that much?

Help a brother out!

 

[SirGuy]

Re: Need serious help on 2 diamonds! All the NB info is here

Hi there. First of all, welcome aboard! This can be a very exciting journey, and you're in the right spot for learning and getting help making an informed decision.

You're on the right track for trying to look for good indicators of light performance. Neither of the stones you posted are particularly good, and I'd pass on both of them.

The first is a "steep/deep" combination, and would likely exhibit leakage. The second has a big table, shallow crown angle, and a short and stubby crown height.

Regarding your bit about the HCA, remember that the HCA is a rejection tool, and shouldn't be used for selection. If your candidates are under, say, 2.0, then look for images (Ideal-Scope, ASET, etc.). The HCA score on its own isn't very useful for comparing two stones if both hit under 2.0. It looks at only four of a round brilliant's 57 facets.

It's also beneficial to post who did the grading reports. Some labs are more reputable than others.

Again, welcome aboard. Could you give us some details on what elements are most important to you? Specifically, where you're willing to compromise?

I like to think of the 4 C's like sliders on a sound board. Dial up and dial down. Each affects price and everything is a compromise. Many here would argue rather emphatically that cut is the most important, and most greatly affects the brilliance, fire, and overall beauty of a stone. In that sense, I would seek stones with better cut within your budget, and that's where we can help.

What's your budget for just the stone?

Looking forward to hearing back from you. This'll be fun.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Need serious help on 2 diamonds! All the NB info is here

Okay, cut needs to be your #1. A good example of why is that the first stone is cut much too deep and has a really thick girdle, so instead of facing up like a .80 the stone faces up more like a .75. A .80 ct stone needs to be at or very close to 6mm.

The HCA is a screening tool, and off the bat you can eliminate stones that score over 3. Many will eliminate all stones that score over 2.0. #1 has so many problems. It will have leakage because of the angles. In fact the HCA warns you that light return is only "good" and you want excellent for that. Then FireOOR and Scintillation:FAIR???? I really don't see how you could even consider this stone because it is not a good one at all.

The second one is a stone that I would not personally consider, but it appears to be more acceptable than the first. Have you seen it to know that it is truly eyeclean? Looks like the SI2 grade making inclusion is a feather (crack), and I would not like that at all.

Honestly, the beginning of a search needs to begin with GIA Excellent cut only, and from there we narrow down the better GIA Excellents by using the HCA. Scores under 2.0 are usually safe and sometimes up to 2.5, but we always recommend an idealscope image and magnified image of the stone to confirm.

I would recommend starting over because I think you can find a better stone than #2.

 

[henri]

Re: Need serious help on 2 diamonds! All the NB info is here

Thanks for the feedback. Both were GIA graded. Something about the 80 bothered me, regardless of the good colour and clarity. Funny how people here only give you carat, color and clarity (in that order) and don't even mention cut.
This confirms to me the following:
I will only seek excellent cut (no compromise and preferably GIA or EGL) diamonds and then check the HCA;
Colour I am willing to go to I, J is just too yellow;
Size not less than 0.80 (6mm at least) - with my budget maybe up to 0.90;
Clarity nothing less than SI1.

Budget excl. setting is about $3500. I have spoken to many jewellers so now it's just about finding the right one. Like you said Sirguy, I can go I but then a higher clarity, or H with maybe SI1.
Will keep you posted on the next set of diamonds.
So much fun already!

 

[tyty333]

Re: Need serious help on 2 diamonds! All the NB info is here

GIA or AGS only...EGL USA might be ok.

Found this at JA...would need to ask if eye-clean.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.83-carat-g-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-311976

 

[tyty333]

Re: Need serious help on 2 diamonds! All the NB info is here

I know you didnt want to go this low but...ask for aset to check for leakage.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.80-carat-j-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-328427
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.91-carat-j-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-350876

A branded cut...in a J
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3171934.htm

 

[tyty333]

Re: Need serious help on 2 diamonds! All the NB info is here

Here are some I colored at WF
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2938288.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2953785.htm

 

[henri]

Re: Need serious help on 2 diamonds! All the NB info is here

Ok so I found two more diamonds at different jewellers:

1) 6.00 - 6.02 x 3.72 mm (GIA report 1165823343)
0.83 carat I VS1, excellent cut. HCA of 2.7 and all ratings very good.
$3300
Jeweller can manufacture ring (handmade) with 18k unplated WG (palladium alloy) ring for about $780. No plating ever necessary.

2) 5.93 - 5.99 x 3.61 mm (GIA report 2177008346)
0.79 carat H IF, excellent cut. HCA of 2.2 and all ratings very good.
$3700
This jeweller can either do platinum ring for $700 (cast) or 18k plated WG (palladium alloy) for about $550. According to this jeweller it should be plated ~annually (for $20).

To me it stacks up like this:
1) I like the idea of a handmade ring with 18k WG (their quality is exemplary). The diamond is the correct specs at a price within my budget. Also no need to plate every year.
2) Good colour with IF, but pushing the budget a bit. Ring manufacture costs much less (high quality) but diamond at a very good price for an IF.

Currently I am going with the 0.83.
Let me know your thoughts.

 

[JulieN]

Re: Need serious help on 2 diamonds! All the NB info is here

No to both.

 

[JulieN]

Re: Need serious help on 2 diamonds! All the NB info is here

Second set looks better. ask for pictures.

 

[henri]

Re: Need serious help on 2 diamonds! All the NB info is here

elaborate