shape
carat
color
clarity

Americans, how do you feel about America?

Americans, how do you feel about your country?

  • 1 Worst country in the world

    Votes: 5 6.4%
  • 2

    Votes: 3 3.8%
  • 3

    Votes: 1 1.3%
  • 4

    Votes: 2 2.6%
  • 5

    Votes: 10 12.8%
  • 6

    Votes: 5 6.4%
  • 7

    Votes: 15 19.2%
  • 8

    Votes: 3 3.8%
  • 9

    Votes: 7 9.0%
  • 10 Best country in the world

    Votes: 27 34.6%

  • Total voters
    78
  • Poll closed .

liaerfbv

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 16, 2007
Messages
1,348
redwood66|1405022043|3710752 said:
I chose the shortest time possible by getting another job within 2 months.

I feel bad for your friends and don't wish that on anyone. If someone truly needs help then they need it. But if there are no jobs where you are then you might have to move right? If you cannot get your dream job then you might have to take something else. I can understand a fast food place not hiring someone with an MBA to flip burgers. But I have seen the high percentage of people who take advantage of a system that allows it to happen.

Guess I am not as tolerant as all of you.

I wish I was talking about dream jobs - I literally mean any job. One friend did end up moving for a job in another state, but the other 2 were geographically tied to the area through spouse's job (aka health insurance). I absolutely acknowledge there are scammers and lazy people, I'm just saying I think honest people trying to get by are far and away the majority of those utilizing government benefits. I don't think I'm "tolerant" -- I think I'm kind and believe people are inherently good.
 

redwood66

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
7,329
liaerfbv|1405023954|3710783 said:
redwood66|1405022043|3710752 said:
I chose the shortest time possible by getting another job within 2 months.

I feel bad for your friends and don't wish that on anyone. If someone truly needs help then they need it. But if there are no jobs where you are then you might have to move right? If you cannot get your dream job then you might have to take something else. I can understand a fast food place not hiring someone with an MBA to flip burgers. But I have seen the high percentage of people who take advantage of a system that allows it to happen.

Guess I am not as tolerant as all of you.

I wish I was talking about dream jobs - I literally mean any job. One friend did end up moving for a job in another state, but the other 2 were geographically tied to the area through spouse's job (aka health insurance). I absolutely acknowledge there are scammers and lazy people, I'm just saying I think honest people trying to get by are far and away the majority of those utilizing government benefits. I don't think I'm "tolerant" -- I think I'm kind and believe people are inherently good.

I wish I could believe that way but I learned to be wary of everything as a default.
 

mayerling

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
2,357
Redwood, I find it interesting that you seem to be proud of the fact that you went back to work after 8 weeks. I also find it interesting that you say your husband was there, which would be perfectly acceptable if you hadn't qualified that with how that was preferable than paying for daycare. I understand needing to go back to work; I don't understand being proud about going back to work. If it had been me, I would have gone back with a very heavy heart, blaming the system all the way for forcing me to hand my children over to someone else to raise in the precious first few weeks of life.

For what it's worth, I'm one of the more "conservative" Europeans in that I'm not trying to suggest maternity pay for longer. I think a happy medium would be to give a parent the option of taking unpaid leave for up to a year or so, knowing their job is secure when they come back. It's up to them to take it or not, and shouldn't cost the employer more. In fact, they could hire maternity cover in the meantime and give someone else precious work experience.
 

redwood66

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
7,329
azstonie|1405023761|3710781 said:
I believe this conversation is contingent upon what a person believes should come with a civilized, educated and prosperous society.

I believe that such a society should include single payer healthcare. Everyone insured.

I believe education is in the best interests of a civilized and prosperous society and as such, should continue to be funded by society INCLUDING vocational education (who is going to fix my air conditioner or my plumbing and electrical? Who will be our doctors, nurses, scientists, etc.?)

I believe that there should be safe, reliable and comprehensive public transportation.

I believe the infrastructure of society, our bridges, roads, buildings, airports, harbors, should be maintained for safe use.

I believe that government should continue to provide services which the private sector at one point had deemed unprofitable, because we needed/need them: Mail, law enforcement, etc.

I don't feel like having the foot of the 1% on my neck is doing me any good nor the vast majority of people in the US.

Because most of the people in the US read no newspapers and don't 'follow the money,' they don't realize the vast profits being reaped by the 1%. They simply have no idea. Living paycheck to paycheck has become so commonplace that most people don't see this as a problem!

*IF* people here ever DO wiseup to where the money is in this country, they will be STUNNED. Revolutions have succeeded based on less.

Why should I begrudge someone to be successful and make money? I am not entitled to a portion of their profits unless I invest in them. Sure our taxes should pay for the basic services you mentioned and there should be safety nets for the truly unfortunate. But the government should not be the answer for everything.
 

redwood66

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
7,329
mayerling|1405024394|3710788 said:
Redwood, I find it interesting that you seem to be proud of the fact that you went back to work after 8 weeks. I also find it interesting that you say your husband was there, which would be perfectly acceptable if you hadn't qualified that with how that was preferable than paying for daycare. I understand needing to go back to work; I don't understand being proud about going back to work. If it had been me, I would have gone back with a very heavy heart, blaming the system all the way for forcing me to hand my children over to someone else to raise in the precious first few weeks of life.

For what it's worth, I'm one of the more "conservative" Europeans in that I'm not trying to suggest maternity pay for longer. I think a happy medium would be to give a parent the option of taking unpaid leave for up to a year or so, knowing their job is secure when they come back. It's up to them to take it or not, and shouldn't cost the employer more. In fact, they could hire maternity cover in the meantime and give someone else precious work experience.

Not sure how my statement indicated I was proud to do it. It was my job to do it for our family. I am all for unpaid maternity leave but that is not the case here if you want to keep your job.

I guess my perspective is that you do what you need to do for your family while not becoming a burden on society.
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 26, 2003
Messages
22,143
redwood66|1405024651|3710790 said:
Why should I begrudge someone to be successful and make money? I am not entitled to a portion of their profits unless I invest in them.

I disagree. The laws were written so that they got that money. I say it is ill-gotten.

Deb
 

azstonie

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
3,769
redwood66|1405024651|3710790 said:
azstonie|1405023761|3710781 said:
I believe this conversation is contingent upon what a person believes should come with a civilized, educated and prosperous society.

I believe that such a society should include single payer healthcare. Everyone insured.

I believe education is in the best interests of a civilized and prosperous society and as such, should continue to be funded by society INCLUDING vocational education (who is going to fix my air conditioner or my plumbing and electrical? Who will be our doctors, nurses, scientists, etc.?)

I believe that there should be safe, reliable and comprehensive public transportation.

I believe the infrastructure of society, our bridges, roads, buildings, airports, harbors, should be maintained for safe use.

I believe that government should continue to provide services which the private sector at one point had deemed unprofitable, because we needed/need them: Mail, law enforcement, etc.

I don't feel like having the foot of the 1% on my neck is doing me any good nor the vast majority of people in the US.

Because most of the people in the US read no newspapers and don't 'follow the money,' they don't realize the vast profits being reaped by the 1%. They simply have no idea. Living paycheck to paycheck has become so commonplace that most people don't see this as a problem!

*IF* people here ever DO wiseup to where the money is in this country, they will be STUNNED. Revolutions have succeeded based on less.

Why should I begrudge someone to be successful and make money? I am not entitled to a portion of their profits unless I invest in them. Sure our taxes should pay for the basic services you mentioned and there should be safety nets for the truly unfortunate. But the government should not be the answer for everything.

I believe that rampant greed of the 1% is the problem, NOT hardworking people who get ahead financially in life. I know we can have a safe and educated and quality society to live in with the resources we have now as opposed to destroying the middle class and creating a huge underclass of poverty so that the 1% can continue on as they have been.

Regarding profits and investing, lets take a look at Walmart. Walmart could not have become what it did without the ROADS here. Who paid for and built the roads? Society did. Pharmaceuticals. Much, much research funded through the government is never repaid by Big Pharm when windfall profits come along. Just two of many, many examples.

Last month I ended cable TV in my home just like millions of Americans have stopped cable television in theirs. That is cutting into the windfall/no tangible costs profit model for several large companies(Cox family, billionaires for example). Do you think the Cox family is going to let that go down without a FIGHT? Here is where they are going to fight back: What you pay to get internet service into your house. The joke's on you, you don't need cable TV anymore because you have a smart TV with Hulu or netflix or amazon prime? Fine, Cox will quadruple what you pay to get online in your house.

And because our law makers tend to take care of the 1%, they will let Cox and other cable providers do this because god forbid they make a few less pennies.

So we will see if you feel so benificient regarding profit/investment/public good then. Enjoy going to library for your internet along with all the homeless and mentally ill folks who have no where to go (which is a travesty in our country) and wait in line with the other people who also cannot afford to get the internet into their home any longer.
 

ForteKitty

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
5,239
kenny|1405019036|3710709 said:
ForteKitty|1405016914|3710673 said:
Dancing Fire|1405011986|3710576 said:
A definite yes! IMO, We shouldn't allow every child who is born here to become a instant U.S. citizen unless one of the parent is a U.S. citizen.This will stop the pregnant mothers for sneaking across the borders to have her baby.

Stop acting like illegal immigration is a "brown people" problem. Plenty of Asians are doing it too. People aren't just sneaking across the boarders. People are flying across the Pacific to have their babies here. It is a huge problem in LA County, enough that the Board of Supervisors are actually cracking down on these "birth housing facilities". Women from China who can pay for this service are flying in and staying at illegally modified homes, with a housekeeper and private doctors to monitor their pregnancy. Then when the time comes, they give birth. Ta-da! Instant US citizenship. I, for one, am terribly ashamed to be ethnically associated with this drop ship birthing brigade.


Ethnically associated?
What an odd thought.

So I guess I'm 'ethnically-associated' and 'genderly-associated' with Hitler so I should be ashamed of being a white male?

But then I'm 'genderly-associated' with Ghandi, so I should be proud of being a male?

I think not.

How bout, what an individual does is not a reflection on any group to which they belong? ... and people do think it is are knobheads.

Oh Kenny, I wish it were that easy. I live in an area where there are a LOT of these birth houses. I am currently pregnant, and am terrified that someone might think I'm one of those women who came here to deliver, simply because I look Asian. There is THAT much judgement going on, especially amongst the Asian community. Did you know that they put up advertisements in China for these birthing trips? Yeah, it's that lucrative of a business. Right now, I don't even speak Chinese in public anymore! It's ridiculous, but I've heard older people making comments about pregnant women in the grocery stores, calling them terrible names. It shouldn't bother me, but I just don't want people to think I'm paying $40k for my kid to be born here. (I've paid much more than that in taxes, dammit. :cheeky: )
 

azstonie

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
3,769
Hold your head up high, your pregnancy is nobody's business (a thoroughly American concept once upon a time along with live and let live).
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 26, 2003
Messages
22,143
ForteKitty|1405026028|3710810 said:
kenny|1405019036|3710709 said:
ForteKitty|1405016914|3710673 said:
Dancing Fire|1405011986|3710576 said:
A definite yes! IMO, We shouldn't allow every child who is born here to become a instant U.S. citizen unless one of the parent is a U.S. citizen.This will stop the pregnant mothers for sneaking across the borders to have her baby.

Stop acting like illegal immigration is a "brown people" problem. Plenty of Asians are doing it too. People aren't just sneaking across the boarders. People are flying across the Pacific to have their babies here. It is a huge problem in LA County, enough that the Board of Supervisors are actually cracking down on these "birth housing facilities". Women from China who can pay for this service are flying in and staying at illegally modified homes, with a housekeeper and private doctors to monitor their pregnancy. Then when the time comes, they give birth. Ta-da! Instant US citizenship. I, for one, am terribly ashamed to be ethnically associated with this drop ship birthing brigade.


Ethnically associated?
What an odd thought.

So I guess I'm 'ethnically-associated' and 'genderly-associated' with Hitler so I should be ashamed of being a white male?

But then I'm 'genderly-associated' with Ghandi, so I should be proud of being a male?

I think not.

How bout, what an individual does is not a reflection on any group to which they belong? ... and people do think it is are knobheads.

Oh Kenny, I wish it were that easy. I live in an area where there are a LOT of these birth houses. I am currently pregnant, and am terrified that someone might think I'm one of those women who came here to deliver, simply because I look Asian.

I am furious on your behalf, ForteKitty. You have suffered enough. I remember the story you posted about encountering racism during your childhood.

Deb :wavey:
 

ForteKitty

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
5,239
azstonie said:
Hold your head up high, your pregnancy is nobody's business (a thoroughly American concept once upon a time along with live and let live).
Uh, it's not my pregnancy, it's my face. I just don't want people to think I'm one of those women. I think that practice is wrong and I want zero association with it.

These birth houses are actually affecting our quality of life around here. Immensely increased traffic, litter and trash everywhere along the main street where the shops are because apparently it's okay to throw cups and bags all over the floor, and we suspect these modified homes are funded and operated by the mafia as it isn't even remotely cheap to own property here. They are well hidden though, and I haven't figured out which ones are birthing houses, but the City and County have managed to find, fine, and shut down quite a few. They can't keep up though.
 

azstonie

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
3,769
Anything about you that does not harm someone else is nobody's business, then.
 

redwood66

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
7,329
azstonie|1405025144|3710796 said:
redwood66|1405024651|3710790 said:
azstonie|1405023761|3710781 said:
I believe this conversation is contingent upon what a person believes should come with a civilized, educated and prosperous society.

I believe that such a society should include single payer healthcare. Everyone insured.

I believe education is in the best interests of a civilized and prosperous society and as such, should continue to be funded by society INCLUDING vocational education (who is going to fix my air conditioner or my plumbing and electrical? Who will be our doctors, nurses, scientists, etc.?)

I believe that there should be safe, reliable and comprehensive public transportation.

I believe the infrastructure of society, our bridges, roads, buildings, airports, harbors, should be maintained for safe use.

I believe that government should continue to provide services which the private sector at one point had deemed unprofitable, because we needed/need them: Mail, law enforcement, etc.

I don't feel like having the foot of the 1% on my neck is doing me any good nor the vast majority of people in the US.

Because most of the people in the US read no newspapers and don't 'follow the money,' they don't realize the vast profits being reaped by the 1%. They simply have no idea. Living paycheck to paycheck has become so commonplace that most people don't see this as a problem!

*IF* people here ever DO wiseup to where the money is in this country, they will be STUNNED. Revolutions have succeeded based on less.

Why should I begrudge someone to be successful and make money? I am not entitled to a portion of their profits unless I invest in them. Sure our taxes should pay for the basic services you mentioned and there should be safety nets for the truly unfortunate. But the government should not be the answer for everything.

I believe that rampant greed of the 1% is the problem, NOT hardworking people who get ahead financially in life. I know we can have a safe and educated and quality society to live in with the resources we have now as opposed to destroying the middle class and creating a huge underclass of poverty so that the 1% can continue on as they have been.

Regarding profits and investing, lets take a look at Walmart. Walmart could not have become what it did without the ROADS here. Who paid for and built the roads? Society did. Pharmaceuticals. Much, much research funded through the government is never repaid by Big Pharm when windfall profits come along. Just two of many, many examples.

Last month I ended cable TV in my home just like millions of Americans have stopped cable television in theirs. That is cutting into the windfall/no tangible costs profit model for several large companies(Cox family, billionaires for example). Do you think the Cox family is going to let that go down without a FIGHT? Here is where they are going to fight back: What you pay to get internet service into your house. The joke's on you, you don't need cable TV anymore because you have a smart TV with Hulu or netflix or amazon prime? Fine, Cox will quadruple what you pay to get online in your house.

And because our law makers tend to take care of the 1%, they will let Cox and other cable providers do this because god forbid they make a few less pennies.

So we will see if you feel so benificient regarding profit/investment/public good then. Enjoy going to library for your internet along with all the homeless and mentally ill folks who have no where to go (which is a travesty in our country) and wait in line with the other people who also cannot afford to get the internet into their home any longer.

Which is why I am all for a flat tax and no IRS needed except to open the envelopes and deposit the checks. And a few to make sure people are paying theirs.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
33,225
ForteKitty|1405028230|3710836 said:
azstonie said:
Hold your head up high, your pregnancy is nobody's business (a thoroughly American concept once upon a time along with live and let live).
Uh, it's not my pregnancy, it's my face. I just don't want people to think I'm one of those women. I think that practice is wrong and I want zero association with it.

These birth houses are actually affecting our quality of life around here. Immensely increased traffic, litter and trash everywhere along the main street where the shops are because apparently it's okay to throw cups and bags all over the floor, and we suspect these modified homes are funded and operated by the mafia as it isn't even remotely cheap to own property here. They are well hidden though, and I haven't figured out which ones are birthing houses, but the City and County have managed to find, fine, and shut down quite a few. They can't keep up though.

If someone thinks you are one of 'them', fvck 'em.
Man up, woman!
 

mochiko42

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Messages
2,663
vtigger86 said:
ForteKitty|1405016914|3710673 said:
Dancing Fire|1405011986|3710576 said:
A definite yes! IMO, We shouldn't allow every child who is born here to become a instant U.S. citizen unless one of the parent is a U.S. citizen.This will stop the pregnant mothers for sneaking across the borders to have her baby.

Stop acting like illegal immigration is a "brown people" problem. Plenty of Asians are doing it too. People aren't just sneaking across the boarders. People are flying across the Pacific to have their babies here. It is a huge problem in LA County, enough that the Board of Supervisors are actually cracking down on these "birth housing facilities". Women from China who can pay for this service are flying in and staying at illegally modified homes, with a housekeeper and private doctors to monitor their pregnancy. Then when the time comes, they give birth. Ta-da! Instant US citizenship. I, for one, am terribly ashamed to be ethnically associated with this drop ship birthing brigade.
I'd agree! they should crack down on these birth housing facilities .. :appl: The rule should apply to every nationality :!:
Oh no.. That would mean those mums would come to Hong Kong to give birth instead if they cannot go to the US ...I heard now that Thailand is a popular destination for pregnant Chinese tourists now... That's a huge issue too here in HK :o:o: :(:(
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 26, 2003
Messages
22,143
mochiko42|1405039692|3710964 said:
Oh no.. That would mean those mums would come to Hong Kong to give birth instead if they cannot go to the US ...I heard now that Thailand is a popular destination for pregnant Chinese tourists now... That's a huge issue too here in HK :o:o: :(:(

Well...this is certainly a threadjack, but does giving birth in Hong Kong or Thailand deliver citizenship of a country other than China to the child of a Chinese woman? I am familiar with the citizenship policies of only a half dozen countries, and China and Thailand are not among them. I am familiar with those of one Asian country-Japan-however, and know that giving birth there does not bestow citizenship upon the child born there.

Deb/AGBF
:read:
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,852
[quote="redwood66|

I guess there are not many conservatives on PS, at least not many that post. I am glad to be here to voice another opinion. Thanks to DF I am not totally alone. :lol:

Even though I have these gripes with America - it is still the best place in the world to me.[/quote]



I'm sure there are more conservatives on PS but their just afraid to post their opinions... :lol: I'd give you a lot of credit for admitting being a conservative on PS. The last count was 5 and 4 of them are hiding under their bed...
rotflmao2.gif
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,852
[quote="AGBF|1405021233

There's a problem with your logic Dancing Fire: you are making the unproven assumption that the alleged "$17 trillion deficit problem" is the result of an "entitlement mentality". How on earth did you reach that conclusion. Would you, "show me your work" as my school teachers used to say?

Deb
:read:[/quote]
We have more people on government assistance program then ever in history.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,852
[quote="liaerfbv|

I personally had 3 friends laid off from work, all with college degrees and one with a masters. All were out of work for close to 2 years. Actively applying to every job under the sun - fast food, full time, part time, everything. Unable to find work. If they were not able to receive govt benefits I know at least one of them would not have been able to keep her apartment AND feed her kid. When the global market crashes and jobs become scarce, what is the government supposed to do? Sure there are people that take advantage of the system- that happens everywhere. I'm talking about the hard working Americans WHO WANT TO WORK AND CANNOT. Should the govt turn their back on those people and allow mass quantities of hunger and homelessness? I'm seriously asking you.[/quote]

Create jobs! we should be creating like 400K jobs per month during this cycle of our economy.
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 26, 2003
Messages
22,143
Dancing Fire|1405043906|3711023 said:
[quote="AGBF|1405021233]

There's a problem with your logic Dancing Fire: you are making the unproven assumption that the alleged "$17 trillion deficit problem" is the result of an "entitlement mentality". How on earth did you reach that conclusion. Would you, "show me your work" as my school teachers used to say?


We have more people on government assistance program then ever in history.


[/quote][/quote]

Even if that were true-which I highly doubt, since since during the Great Depression there were more alphabet agencies than one could shake a stick at-it would not prove that an "entitlement mentality" (as yet undefined by you) caused the current deficit. When did you plan on defining "entitlement mentality"?

Deb
:read:
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
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Messages
14,634
Dancing Fire|1405043906|3711023 said:
[quote="AGBF|1405021233

There's a problem with your logic Dancing Fire: you are making the unproven assumption that the alleged "$17 trillion deficit problem" is the result of an "entitlement mentality". How on earth did you reach that conclusion. Would you, "show me your work" as my school teachers used to say?

Deb
:read:
We have more people on government assistance program then ever in history.[/quote]
We also have more government employees on all levels than any time in history.
That is an even bigger problem.
Bloated bureaucracies that are massively inefficient and full of patronage and fraud and provide crappy service to those that they are supposed to serve.
 

packrat

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
10,614
Karl_K|1405044850|3711032 said:
Dancing Fire|1405043906|3711023 said:
[quote="AGBF|1405021233

There's a problem with your logic Dancing Fire: you are making the unproven assumption that the alleged "$17 trillion deficit problem" is the result of an "entitlement mentality". How on earth did you reach that conclusion. Would you, "show me your work" as my school teachers used to say?

Deb
:read:
We have more people on government assistance program then ever in history.
We also have more government employees on all levels than any time in history.
That is an even bigger problem.
Bloated bureaucracies that are massively inefficient and full of patronage and fraud and provide crappy service to those that they are supposed to serve.[/quote]

I really think the gov't should form a committee to study this claim. And a committee to study DF's claim. And a committee to study those committee's to see how and where they get their facts and do a report on how committee's do this.
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 26, 2003
Messages
22,143
Karl_K|1405044850|3711032 said:
[quote="AGBF|1405021233

There's a problem with your logic Dancing Fire: you are making the unproven assumption that the alleged "$17 trillion deficit problem" is the result of an "entitlement mentality". How on earth did you reach that conclusion. Would you, "show me your work" as my school teachers used to say?



Dancing Fire:

"We have more people on government assistance program then ever in history."



We also have more government employees on all levels than any time in history.
That is an even bigger problem.
Bloated bureaucracies that are massively inefficient and full of patronage and fraud and provide crappy service to those that they are supposed to serve.

I am still unconvinced by this statement, Karl. At the very least, I want someone to define, "government assistance program" before telling me that we have more people on it than ever before.

Are we talking about AFDC? (That was Aid to Families with Dependent Children, i.e. "welfare". It was called ADC or "Aid to Dependent Children" before it was called AFDC.) We no longer have that. President Clinton ended it.

Are we talking about Social Security? We started to have that when it was introduced by FDR in 1935.

Are we talking about the Centers for Disease Control; the National Institute of Health; The Food and Drug Administration; Child Protective Services? What umbrella of services constitutes government assistance? Are the fire and police government assistance? I know that the Founding Fathers gave them the nod. But they did not say we, the people, could not give a nod to other services we wished to utilize in the future.

We may have more government "service" than before service like electricity and advanced medicine existed, but it may not be because we have become socialist. It may be because more services exist in a civilized world than in a world with covered wagons.

At the very least, I want a definition of what a "government assistance program" is.

Deb/AGBF
:read:
 

ForteKitty

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
5,239
Karl_K|1405044850|3711032 said:
We also have more government employees on all levels than any time in history.
That is an even bigger problem.
Bloated bureaucracies that are massively inefficient and full of patronage and fraud and provide crappy service to those that they are supposed to serve.

I work for L.A. County and I think my department is pretty good. Mostly civil engineers who work very hard to make sure everyday life runs as smoothly as possible for our constituents. A lot of the constituents that call in, however, are downright nasty. They often start calls with a plethora of swear words and racial slurs if the person who answers the phone has even the slightest accent. When we try to offer solutions, they get pissed off and hang up, only to call right back hoping they'd get someone else who is willing to let them get away with dumping paint, restaurant or automobile grease, or other chemicals into the storm drains that go straight to the ocean. We try our best, but some people are just nasty and entitled. Yes, you may pay taxes that pay our salary, but you cannot treat us like slaves. If there is a big accident on the street and traffic is stopped, we cannot force a bus to fly over it so it can pick you up. I'm sorry if you see it sitting there behind the wreakage, I promise the driver is not happy either. If you break the law and infringe on other people's property, we do have to step in. If you swear at us repeated even after we ask you to speak calmly, we will hang up. We can't help you if you can't tell us what the problem is. Karl, is that what you mean by crappy service?
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 26, 2003
Messages
22,143
packrat|1405045889|3711044 said:
Karl_K|1405044850|3711032 said:
Dancing Fire|1405043906|3711023 said:
[quote="AGBF|1405021233]

There's a problem with your logic Dancing Fire: you are making the unproven assumption that the alleged "$17 trillion deficit problem" is the result of an "entitlement mentality". How on earth did you reach that conclusion. Would you, "show me your work" as my school teachers used to say?
We have more people on government assistance program then ever in history.
We also have more government employees on all levels than any time in history.
That is an even bigger problem.
Bloated bureaucracies that are massively inefficient and full of patronage and fraud and provide crappy service to those that they are supposed to serve.

I really think the gov't should form a committee to study this claim. And a committee to study DF's claim. And a committee to study those committee's to see how and where they get their facts and do a report on how committee's do this.


[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

I have an alternative suggestion. Posters could try to think through the issues under discussion here without involving politicians. We could continue this discussion civilly, as we have done thus far, and not force Ella to close the thread. ;))

I say: good job so far, everyone! Liberals and conservatives alike! You have all done good! No fighting yet!

Deb :wavey:
 

ForteKitty

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
5,239
Please, NO MORE committees. Those things are awful and only get in the way of real work. We don't need a study on whether the road need to be fixed. It's cracked, it needs to be fixed!

Signed,
disgruntled Public Works employee.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
33,225
packrat|1405045889|3711044 said:
Karl_K|1405044850|3711032 said:
We have more people on government assistance program then ever in history.
We also have more government employees on all levels than any time in history.
That is an even bigger problem.
Bloated bureaucracies that are massively inefficient and full of patronage and fraud and provide crappy service to those that they are supposed to serve.

I really think the gov't should form a committee to study this claim. And a committee to study DF's claim. And a committee to study those committee's to see how and where they get their facts and do a report on how committee's do this.

Oh Great!
Let's hire more government employees to study the problem of too many government employees. :lol:
 

redwood66

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
7,329
Sorry to say but welfare does exist today even though it is not called AFDC now. In my state it is more difficult to stay on it past 2 years and you must be in school if you do not have a job. Not so in California. I knew generations of people on welfare and it was sickening because they were able to work but did not want to.

People believe government workers are all lazy and "provide crappy service" but this is not the case. I take pride in my work and have been recognized for excellent customer service by the people I help. The majority of government workers I have worked with in my career are the same. That said there are a percentage that are just corrupt as can be but it seems that is higher up the food chain. The ones doing the actual work are a pretty good lot.

I work for my state's Transportation Dept. and we have cut 20% of our positions statewide in the past 2 years. More with less and I am fine with that. What I am not fine with is the fact that we make an average of 19-25% less than similar positions in the private sector. Some of our staff with families qualify for food stamps. Pretty sad when they are operating a $200K piece of machinery and are responsible for the safety of the traveling public. Money is not a driving factor for me to work here (I am already retired) because I have other benefits like being 3 miles from work and a decent retirement. But the wages are not great for those who need to survive on them. I would love to stay at home now but we have plans and those require a bit more working to make them happen.
 

packrat

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
10,614
Next the Govt should form a committee to study why there is a lack of sense of humor in certain areas.
 

redwood66

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
7,329
There shall be no sense of humor allowed. It will disrupt everything. :lol:
 
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