Fake Art deco rings... made by whom?

[BearFluff]

I'm shopping for a vintage Art Deco ring and I keep seeing the same rings for sale! In some cases the jeweller has claimed that the ring is a new Art Deco reproduction which was hand-made by themselves, which is clearly untrue as several shops are selling identical rings. More worryingly, some jewellers have actually claimed that it's a vintage Art Deco ring from the 1930s.


Last week I tried on a ring which the jeweller assured me was vintage Art Deco, they appeared to genuinely believe it was a vintage ring and had priced it high because it was in excellent vintage condition.

The same ring is for sale online here http://bearbrooksbank.com/products/engagement-rings/SN87/ (where they claim it's hand-made by themselves using sapphires)

And here http://www.philiplloydjewellers.co.uk/index.php/rings/art-deco/art-deco-ruby-and-diamond-ring-18ct-white-gold-0-90ct.html (where they also claim it's hand made by themselves, in ruby this time)

And here, where they have both the sapphire and ruby versions: http://www.farringdonsjewellery.com/hikashop-menu-for-module-22/product/627-art-deco-style-sapphire-and-diamond-ring-18ct-white-gold/category_pathway-12
http://www.farringdonsjewellery.com/hikashop-menu-for-module-22/product/625-art-deco-style-ruby-and-diamond-ring-18ct-white-gold/category_pathway-12

And here, where they appear to be claiming it's an actual vintage ring: http://www.coopersjewellery.com/shop/antique-jewellery/rings/236/ruby-and-diamond-cluster.php


I also went into an antiques centre where they tried to sell me this exact ring as a real vintage ring - here it is for sale on two different websites:
http://crispinjewellery.bigcartel.com/product/art-deco-style-18ct-white-gold-diamond-0-85-ct-ring
http://www.philiplloydjewellers.co.uk/index.php/rings/art-deco/art-deco-diamond-ring-0-90ct-18ct-wg.html


Clearly someone is making fake Art Deco rings and probably selling them wholesale - and some jewellers are claiming they're hand-made by themselves while others are trying to pass them off as real vintage rings!

Firstly, does anyone know who makes these fakes? I'd like to look at their stock so I know which styles are fake, to avoid getting caught out by a jeweller who tries to sell me a fake as a real vintage ring.

Secondly, does anyone have any tips for making sure I buy a real vintage ring and not a fake?

 

[kefira]

A lot of these listing have the words Art Deco Style, which is an important difference from Art Deco, so there's a good way to weed for modern reproductions. The designs may be ones available for sale to jewelers (from some nebulous place others probably can say more about), who are recreating it themselves. It's unfortunate that they are trying to pass them off as vintage pieces, but you may be also dealing with misinformed sales people. The last ring you posted, both places say the ring is Art Deco Style, and the stones are clearly modern cuts, which means someone on their end is out of the loop, or lying to you.

The two places that do represent the rings they have as being genuinely antique (Coopers and Bear Brooksbank), well I think you are right, they are straight up, um, lying. The rings don't look old to me, but that's just my opinion based on a few pics. They look like they have very poor metal work in both examples, which isn't what you usually see with vintage pieces. I'd avoid those jewelers, personally.

I hope someone can speak to where these designs come from. I have seen a lot of fake looking antiques, as well, mostly just perusing ebay.

 

[BearFluff]

I have been avoiding rings listed as Art Deco style as they tend to be fakes. But I tried on both of these rings at specialist antique shops (not the shops linked in my original post) and they insisted the rings were genuine Art Deco from the 1930s. One shop called me back a few days later to see if I had made a decision about purchasing their ring - when I said it was a fake and named the websites which were selling identical rings, they got really annoyed and said they don't deal in fakes, and hung up the phone.

Phillip Lloyd told me the rings are hand-made by themselves and they could start work immediately if I placed an order the same day. Bear Brooksbank said they design and make their own rings with 1920s inspiration, but they do stock a few genuine antiques as well - no mention of buying ready-made rings from a third party!

I can understand how some jewellers might mistakenly think they're selling a real antique, but I can't think of any good reason why someone would claim a ring is hand-made by themselves when it clearly isn't. So now I'm really concerned that I'll end up being fooled into buying a fake... or even that I'll buy a supposedly hand-made ring which is actually a mass produced item and they're lying about making it by hand! But I'd also love to know who makes these replicas as they seem to be everywhere!

 

[LGK]

Yeah, there are some super common repro settings out there. They probably come out of India and China. And yeah, lousy jewelers do lie through their teeth about them. And misuse "handmade". I would bet money they mean "we bought a stock setting and our bench set the stones".

Pretty much you need to spend some time looking at a ton of settings to get a feel for them. A lot of the super busy, lots of colored stones jammed in with tons of diamonds type settings, are often repros. The real deco ones are often more... airy? More metal showing, less big.

If you can handle the ring in person, flip it over. Most true Deco rings are die struck and will be lighter feeling than a molded ring, and the reverse should be very smooth, no bumps or lumpiness. The thick slightly bumpy underside of a cast ring is a pretty good indication it's new. Not like, 100% accurate and you need to see both the die struck and the cast examples to really know what you're doing but it's a quick and dirty way to have a good idea what you're looking at.

Sadly there is no bible for weeding out repros. There are just too many sources. And yes there are some incredibly common ones.

 

[distracts]

It's always possible that the salespeople trying to sell you the rings are misinformed or just forgetting to say that it's art deco style, not an actual art deco piece. You know, that whole never attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance thing. Plus, I guarantee that most people coming into jewelry stores asking for "antique" or "vintage" rings don't actually mean OLD rings, just vintage-style or antique-style, or even just something a little fussier than a plain solitaire.

I'd also not refer to them as "fakes" to people but rather "reproductions." The materials are still genuine, and fake usually denotes, uh, fakes, not repros. Just. Like. You may be ruffling feathers unnecessarily by calling them fakes rather than reproductions, which won't help in getting straight answers.

 

[Gypsy]

Yeah, there are some super common repro settings out there. They probably come out of India and China. And yeah, lousy jewelers do lie through their teeth about them. And misuse "handmade". I would bet money they mean "we bought a stock setting and our bench set the stones".

Pretty much you need to spend some time looking at a ton of settings to get a feel for them. A lot of the super busy, lots of colored stones jammed in with tons of diamonds type settings, are often repros. The real deco ones are often more... airy? More metal showing, less big.

If you can handle the ring in person, flip it over. Most true Deco rings are die struck and will be lighter feeling than a molded ring, and the reverse should be very smooth, no bumps or lumpiness. The thick slightly bumpy underside of a cast ring is a pretty good indication it's new. Not like, 100% accurate and you need to see both the die struck and the cast examples to really know what you're doing but it's a quick and dirty way to have a good idea what you're looking at.

Sadly there is no bible for weeding out repros. There are just too many sources. And yes there are some incredibly common ones.

LGK!!!!! WELCOME BACK!!!

 

[LGK]

Hey honey!!! I am totally out of the loop but it is good to be back It is so good to see so many familiar "faces" still here. (Sorry for the brief hijack, Bear!)

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Hi, LGK!

The rings are not fake. They are called reproductions of antique rings. Antique style rings are immensely popular. I will give you some links of entire lines of antique style rings. I agree with whoever said those don't appear to be the best quality, but they aren't fakes. You may have some jewelers who lied or salespeople who are ignorant, but the rings are real art deco style rings. They just aren't antiques.

Here are some that are better quality:

http://www.beverleyk.com/engagement-rings.html?limit=30&styles=159

http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/royal-chandelier-cushion-brilliant-collection-pclid-16.html

 

[arkieb1]

If you get to try the rings on it should be fairly obvious if they are old or brand new by the wear you will see (even if a ring has been polished) if it is a true antique look at the shank or band these usually have thinned out over time. The colour of the metal has usually some age about it..... As the others have pointed out flip the ring over, the under gallery of genuine Antique pieces look and feel different to modern repos or as the dealers term it "Deco Style" rings.

Here is another site that sells a lot of repo settings;

http://www.faycullen.com/Art-Deco-Ring-Settings/

I also see a lot of complete repo target rings and Deco rings on Ebay as well.

 

[Dancing Fire]

.

I'd also not refer to them as "fakes" to people but rather "reproductions." The materials are still genuine, and fake usually denotes, uh, fakes, not repros. Just. Like. You may be ruffling feathers unnecessarily by calling them fakes rather than reproductions, which won't help in getting straight answers.

They refer to them as "homage" on the watch forums...just another word for FAKES...

 

[Circe]

Another big welcome back, LGK - you've been missed!

Bearfluff, I know exactly what you mean: I think I started a similar thread over in the Antiques forum a while back, I'll see if I can dig it up for you ... yep, here it is: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/common-reproduction-designs.196664/

In my experience, it's the delicacy of the workmanship and the age of the stones that are the big tells. A very detailed gallery is typically a reassuring sign: similarly, some wear to the engraving. But the best approach is just perusing as many pieces as possible until you develop a spidey-sense ... informative, and better yet, fun.

 

[Rosebloom]

Yay for LGK!!! I was reading and not posting during your days but I learned so much from you and love your collection.

 

[BloomsburyHouse]

Agree with distracts. These are not fakes, in the same way that a counterfeit Tiffany is a fake. Art Deco isn't a brand, it isn't even a time period. It's the name of the style developed in the late 1920s through to around 1935.

You'll probably find that in legal terms Art Deco does not have to refer to items produced in during what is generally thought to be the art deco period. If you do want something produced in the Art deco period, look for 1920s, 1930s, vintage or antique.

The art deco style has become very popular of late and I agree that looking at the underside will help you determine whether it was die cast or from a modern mold.

I was recently looking at buying from a very reputable dealer who was showing me some obviously new items and describing them as original art deco!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Agree with distracts. These are not fakes, in the same way that a counterfeit Tiffany is a fake. Art Deco isn't a brand, it isn't even a time period. It's the name of the style developed in the late 1920s through to around 1935.

You'll probably find that in legal terms Art Deco does not have to refer to items produced in during what is generally thought to be the art deco period. If you do want something produced in the Art deco period, look for 1920s, 1930s, vintage or antique.

The art deco style has become very popular of late and I agree that looking at the underside will help you determine whether it was die cast or from a modern mold.

I was recently looking at buying from a very reputable dealer who was showing me some obviously new items and describing them as original art deco!!

Welcome to PS! I cannot identify your business because what comes up for Bloomsbury House is a house in the UK. Do you have a website?

 

[BloomsburyHouse]

Hello! We arehttp://bloomsburymanor.com I've asked for the profile name to be changed from house to manor!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Hello! We arehttp://bloomsburymanor.com I've asked for the profile name to be changed from house to manor!

Thanks!