The Setting of the Idiot's Sapphire Engagement Ring

[gasdark]

Or for that matter Palladium



ACtually, to be honest, the palladium one looks so close to platinum to my eye, that I can't even tell them apart.

And I can afford the palladium one definitely at roughly 1350.

As I understand it, palladium suffers from two big cons:

Very expensive to resize
And more brittle/less scratch resistant than platinum.

But the question I have is:

How often does the average person need a resize over a lifetime?
And how often does a well made palladium ring actually break?

(Neil - as to whether she would like yellow gold - I think so. Or at least, I really don't think she wouldn't like it.)

 

[Niel]

I may have missed this so I am sorry if I make you repeat yourself.

But if you like sholdt stuff why not just get a sholdt and not go though someone to replicate it.

And why not white gold? Is she allergic?

And to your point about yellow gold. You know her better than we do so you'd have to decide of shed like it. It would I do think flatter the color of the stone though, and bring out a very earthy feel.

Does she wear other gold jewelry? Even like fake stuff?

 

[velouriaL]

If she has a baby, she will probably need a resize. Or if she wants to pass down the ring to anyone else. Many people find that their rings get larger post-baby/middle age and then start getting smaller as they become elderly. Plus I have found that ring sizes aren't terribly standardized (even though they should be). I have tried on multiple different "size 7s" in my life and found them to be wildly different. It's a once-in-a-lifetime ring. I would probably spend the extra few hundred to make sure it's resizable. JMHO.

For insurance: find out how much it will be to insure, how much they will pay out if there is damage. I'm not sure, but I remember hearing about someone who tried to do this and found that it was geared for diamonds and so pretty expensive. In addition, the insurance didn't really know how to value colored gems and wound up undervaluing a stone that would actually be much harder to replace than a diamond. I would ask Jerry if he thinks, if it came to it, he could replace the sapphire with one of comparable size, clarity, cutting, and color. How long it would take, etc. I'm not sure how it works, but perhaps you can do a rider on the insurance noting that A Montana sapphire of that size is rare and difficult to replace? Not to say you shouldn't go the insurance route, just make sure you ask all the questions. I would also, DEFINITELY, ask about having it sent out to someone who specializes in setting colored gems. I would do this in addition to the insurance.

I think the settings you're honing in on are gorgeous!

If I were me, which it isn't, I would go for yellow gold. I think it would flatter the stone tremendously. But I'm a yellow gold lover.

 

[velouriaL]

But if you like sholdt stuff why not just get a sholdt and not go though someone to replicate it.

I would DEFINITELY have someone else set it in this case!!!

 

[gasdark]

I'm certainly prepared to have the stone set by someone else, I'm just not sure how that would work.

Does that mean I would order the setting from Sholdt, after giving them the stone to get the proper measurements from it. But then, rather than setting the stone into the setting themselves, they would send the setting and the stone to an agreed upon third party who would then do the actual setting of the stone and send the whole thing back to me?

 

[gasdark]

I may have missed this so I am sorry if I make you repeat yourself.

But if you like sholdt stuff why not just get a sholdt and not go though someone to replicate it.

And why not white gold? Is she allergic?

And to your point about yellow gold. You know her better than we do so you'd have to decide of shed like it. It would I do think flatter the color of the stone though, and bring out a very earthy feel.

Does she wear other gold jewelry? Even like fake stuff?

I just learned how to sue the quote function.

I'm not sure that she's allergic to white gold, but I think there's a safe bet the nickel is not going to do well by her.

 

[gasdark]

I may have missed this so I am sorry if I make you repeat yourself.

But if you like sholdt stuff why not just get a sholdt and not go though someone to replicate it.

And why not white gold? Is she allergic?

And to your point about yellow gold. You know her better than we do so you'd have to decide of shed like it. It would I do think flatter the color of the stone though, and bring out a very earthy feel.

Does she wear other gold jewelry? Even like fake stuff?

I just learned how to sue the quote function.

I'm not sure that she's allergic to white gold, but I think there's a safe bet the nickel is not going to do well by her.

I should say, neither would she be sure - it's just a real possibility in this case that there could be an allergic reaction and I'd rather not risk it.

 

[Niel]

But if you like sholdt stuff why not just get a sholdt and not go though someone to replicate it.

I would DEFINITELY have someone else set it in this case!!!

I know there was an instance where sholdt chipped a stone. But Brian Gavin sems to set a fair amt of CSs. And pearlmans does too. They might be options.

 

[Indylady]

Yep, I would find someone that has experience with CS's to set the stone.

 

[gasdark]

OK - So I'm pretty convinced about the look of the gold flora ring - Question is this: Is gold going to increase the chance of the gem falling out of the setting in the future? Is the gem falling out an inevitability if the ring is worn frequently? Would platinum significantly decrease those chances?

To that end, am I correct in saying that as between 14K and 18K gold, 14K is the more utilitarian composition: I.e. harder and more durable?

 

[Rosebloom]

I just had a sapphire set (by Whiteflash, a very similar company to Brian Gavin) and got jewelers mutual coverage for the setting process (many places will require you to do so). They require an independent appraisal and a few other things that can take a few days to arrange. If something were to happen to the stone, they don't cut you a check, they get you a replacement. So make sure the appraisal is as detailed as possible about the lapidary, color description, treatments, etc. Also, they wouldn't let me ship them the stone until they had proof of insurance. The whole process easily adds a week to your timeframe so you might get started on some aspects of this while you're figuring out the setting.

 

[Rosebloom]

Also, I think it would look glorious in 18kt yellow gold. Plenty durable in my opinion and much richer looking and "gold-ier" than 14kt.

 

[movie zombie]

Also, I think it would look glorious in 18kt yellow gold. Plenty durable in my opinion and much richer looking and "gold-ier" than 14kt.

I agree! 18k gold is more than adequate for an e-ring 24/7 for 30 years or more.
also, I think you're sapphire will be absolutely fantastic in it!
imo, 18k gold is a "richer" look.

eta: 14k gold does not have as much gold in the actual alloy.
18k gold is plenty strong for prongs, bezels and any of the settings you are considering.
I don't mean to be rude but I am blunt: sometimes 14k gold can look like costume jewelry...not always but sometimes.
re gold alloys: http://www.longdreamgallery.com/about/gold.html
22k gold should never be used for prongs. my e-ring is 22k hammered gold with an 18k gold bridge under it to give the mounting strength. the partial bezel is 22k...and plenty strong enough for that. however, I do not wear the ring 24/7!

 

[MollyMalone]

FYI Greenwich Jewelers in Tribeca carries Sholdt & based on my experiences there, I'm very comfortable suggesting them to you. Even with NYC sales taxes, they beat Pearlman's prices when I was shopping several years ago for a mounting for a sapphire to wear in a right-hand ring & I thought the the staff was great (close to my office, so I spent more than a few of my lunch hours there). Best to go earlier in the week rather than a Friday or Saturday when they are busier and often hosting special, "trunk show" events.
https://www.greenwichjewelers.com/

But much as I like supporting good, local businesses (and liked the idea of personally delivering the sapphire/picking up the completed ring myself), the reality is that, as a New Yorker, you won't pay sales taxes on a BG purchase. So Greenwich would have to quote you a price that's more than 8.75% lower than BG to be competitive in this respect.

OK - So I'm pretty convinced about the look of the gold flora ring - Question is this: Is gold going to increase the chance of the gem falling out of the setting in the future? Is the gem falling out an inevitability if the ring is worn frequently? Would platinum significantly decrease those chances?

My e-ring was a 14K Victorian one, which was more than 100 years old when I began wearing it daily. None of its emeralds or diamonds fell out over the course of the next 20+ years -- and those stones were all prong-set. Your sapphire would be "safer" in this Sholdt design because it will be cupped in a bezel.

If you take your Montana sapphire to Greenwich Jewelers, you could see it against the various Sholdt alloys uses in its rings, which might sway your decision. I think Montanas are amongst the colored stones that are particularly "tough to call" from a computer monitor, so it's not outside the realm of possibility that you might decide this particular stone looks best with Sholdt's rose gold. Also ask if Sholdt' offers a nickel-free white gold; if so, that would eliminate that particular concern of yours.

But honestly, if you're not going to bring your SO into the process at this point, I think you should try to ascertain whether she has a preference re white metals vs. yellow or pink/rose golds. Many of us have a strong opinion about what metal(s) we'd be happiest wearing every day

 

[movie zombie]

and if you're going to be open to red/rose gold, look at 18k green gold for your Montana sapphire.
seriously.
in 18k the red or green is so subtle it is hard to realize until you put it next to an 18k yellow gold item.
I wear an 18k red gold chain and no one knows it is red gold except me.
I had the opportunity to buy green gold at the time but didn't.
knowing what I know now I wish I had.....sigh.

speaking of which remember you're going to want a wedding band to go with whatever setting you select for the e-ring.
you'll probably want a matching gold [whichever one you go with] and it will need to fit up against the e-ring w/o causing lots of wear.

 

[MollyMalone]

I don't mean to be rude but I am blunt: sometimes 14k gold can look like costume jewelry...not always but sometimes.

Well, I'll be blunt as well. Since you have not seen any 14K Sholdt rings in real life, what's the point in conjuring up for gasdark the sneering specter of "costume jewelry"? geesh

(and no, my comment isn't because I feel self-defensive. I don't have a 14K Sholdt... but having seen several, in both their white and yellow gold alloys, I can say there's no basis for casting aspersion)

 

[chrono]

As I understand it, palladium suffers from two big cons:
Very expensive to resize
And more brittle/less scratch resistant than platinum.

Add one more that to me, is at the top of the list:
The patina happens very quickly (to me, it is sooner than platinum and gold) and it becomes an extremely DARK gray.
The 4th one for me is the weight; it feels very light. To some, this might be a positive thing though.

14k YG is strong enough to hold the sapphire safely 24/7. There is strong likelihood that your new Montana will look better in yellow gold than in a white metal but best to wait until you have the sapphire in hand and play around with the actual setting or at least other settings in a white, rose and yellow metal.

 

[chrono]

He had not himself seen a stone damaged. But in any case, we would arrange it so that I had insurance with Jeweler's mutual before they ever took possession of the stone, let alone began work. Basically, I would pay a deposit, they would give me a work order, I would order the insurance, and they would set the stone in the ring, then give assessment papers for the ring and I would just increase the insurance coverage to the new value of the total ring. As I understand it, if the sapphire is damaged, I'm cut a check from Jewelers mutual - which obviously doesn't replace this very particular jewel, but at least I'm monetarily not put out at all. Does this all sound kosher? As far as ERD is concerned, anyone have any experience with their colored stone work before?

I beg to differ; I think it depends on which bench they send the work out to. I've seen ERD set a zircon with no issues but they chipped my spinel. You can go the safe route with insurance, but for me, my stones are irreplaceable (took several years to find).

 

[Niel]

and if you're going to be open to red/rose gold, look at 18k green gold for your Montana sapphire.
seriously.
in 18k the red or green is so subtle it is hard to realize until you put it next to an 18k yellow gold item.
I wear an 18k red gold chain and no one knows it is red gold except me.
I had the opportunity to buy green gold at the time but didn't.
knowing what I know now I wish I had.....sigh.

speaking of which remember you're going to want a wedding band to go with whatever setting you select for the e-ring.
you'll probably want a matching gold [whichever one you go with] and it will need to fit up against the e-ring w/o causing lots of wear.

Green gold is going to be more expensive.
And to your point about the wedding band, if you did get a mokume gane wedding band, you could find one with any sort of mixture that included your metal color. But one with green gold would again Probabaly be more expensive. So I don't think I'd go that route.
I do not think you have to buy a flush fit wedding band. A strait band would look nice with that twisty sholdt, I disagree that it gas to fit up against the ering.

 

[pregcurious]

I've seen ERD set a zircon with no issues but they chipped my spinel. You can go the safe route with insurance, but for me, my stones are irreplaceable (took several years to find).

That is unfortunately. I've only had them set diamonds before, and I was planning on having them set all my colored stones because the setting came out so well. Chrono, did they handle it properly?

 

[chrono]

I've seen ERD set a zircon with no issues but they chipped my spinel. You can go the safe route with insurance, but for me, my stones are irreplaceable (took several years to find).

That is unfortunately. I've only had them set diamonds before, and I was planning on having them set all my colored stones because the setting came out so well. Chrono, did they handle it properly?

That is their saving grace. They handled it very well; sent it off to be fixed and reset promptly. The fortunate thing is that the damage was under the girdle, so there's no face up loss whatsoever, minimal carat weight loss and no effect on cut and colour. On a different spinel with a different non-PS vendor, the damage was above the girdle so there was greater carat weight loss.

 

[movie zombie]

I don't mean to be rude but I am blunt: sometimes 14k gold can look like costume jewelry...not always but sometimes.

Well, I'll be blunt as well. Since you have not seen any 14K Sholdt rings in real life, what's the point in conjuring up for gasdark the sneering specter of "costume jewelry"? geesh

(and no, my comment isn't because I feel self-defensive. I don't have a 14K Sholdt... but having seen several, in both their white and yellow gold alloys, I can say there's no basis for casting aspersion)

you assume too much, Molly.
and you ignored the "sometimes" in my post.

it does seem you took it personal and, again, it was a general statement and my opinion only.
since we have a person new to fine jewelry and asking lots of questions and looking for more info it does not seem unreasonable to share personal observations and then let HIM MAKE HIS OWN DECISION AFTER SEEING SETTINGS FOR HIMSELF.

and I do own a pair of 14K matte gold earrings which are lovely in my eyes....just so you know I'm not "above it".

 

[velouriaL]

IMO, 14k looks just fine. I personally can't tell the difference in white gold.

Your stone is unlikely to fall out, but she might want to get the prongs checked and tightened every, um, like 5-10 years.

Most women who have nickel allergies know it. There are also nickel-free alloys.

But get the best you can afford!

I def think getting out there are seeing some settings in person might be a good call. Greenwich us awesome and has a lot of great stuff.

For insurance, I would ask Jerry if he can provide a replacement and see if you can get that worked into the rider. Otherwise who knows what will be determined as a "reasonable" replacement.

In all reality, the stone won't be chipped. It's pretty rare. But accidents do happen.

If it were me, I would prioritize getting a really experienced setter. This, imoo, is as if not more important that insurance.

You don't have to go out to a third party necessarily. Most jewelers work with many different bench jewelers who do various tasks. For example, Daniel M does work for a retailer, I believe and his etsy shop is his side business. Similarly, Yvonne Raley describes her setter as having 30 years in the business and having set for Cartier, etc. His name is Pierre and has a shop on 47th street. Maybe you could seek him out and talk to him. But, you can also emphasize to whomever does the setting that you absolutely want it sent out to the beat and most experienced colored gem setter they employ/work with/know.

 

[movie zombie]

....... I personally can't tell the difference in white gold. ......

I was talking about yellow gold....I should have been more specific.

 

[pregcurious]

I've seen ERD set a zircon with no issues but they chipped my spinel. You can go the safe route with insurance, but for me, my stones are irreplaceable (took several years to find).

That is unfortunately. I've only had them set diamonds before, and I was planning on having them set all my colored stones because the setting came out so well. Chrono, did they handle it properly?

That is their saving grace. They handled it very well; sent it off to be fixed and reset promptly. The fortunate thing is that the damage was under the girdle, so there's no face up loss whatsoever, minimal carat weight loss and no effect on cut and colour. On a different spinel with a different non-PS vendor, the damage was above the girdle so there was greater carat weight loss.

Sorry for the thread jack. I have ask one more question...is there someone you recommend for setting spinels? I like ERD's work, but my understanding is that subcontract out things and I won't know who is working on my piece. Hunt Country Jewelers specializes in colored stones, but they don't do CAD/cast and I'm not sure I like the organic look of their rings.