Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting it?

[jimyhoff]

I bought this diamond about 2 months ago with the understanding that an "I" color was perfectly acceptable for an engagement ring. It has a good HCA number and medium blue fluorescence. After being in Cartier and Tiffany stores, etc., my girlfriend has in her mind that an "I" color isn't good enough.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.09-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-248746

So my question, is it worth trying to spend maybe $5,000 more (assuming the seller would let me) and try to upgrade to an H with similar size and cut? Or would I just be wasting my money?

Thanks!

 

[AprilBaby]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

Wow! Any 2 ct diamond would be good enough for me! I think it's in her mind. I bet she can't tell an I from an H. To see the difference I think you would have to go to F.

 

[jimyhoff]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

I sure can't tell the difference. If it matters we're setting it in platinum.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

Is it worth 5k to upgrade.

Well. No. But I also don't think that getting her an I when she said she doesn't want one is right. She is entitled to her personal opinion and color tolerances are important and very individualized. I believe you should respect her color request. But you can go down to a 1.8 ct H color for the same amount of money. And that way she gets the color she wants and everything is still in budget.

I don't believe in expanding budgets. There is a reason you set that budget in the first place. Stick to it. But go down to a 1.8 ct H to respect her color request

 

[jimyhoff]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

She also has a 2ct request....

Can you tell the difference between and H and an I?

I also have a hard time "respecting" her color request. To be honest, I found it offensive that she even asked what color it was after I thought I spent a lot of money on something nice. Regardless, I'd consider dropping a little more on something that's going to last a long time if there really is a noticeable difference.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

Okay so here is some advice.

If someone were buying you a car you were going to drive for the rest of your life, don't you think you'd want some input?

There's nothing to be offended by when it comes the to her color request.

What if you don't want a red car? And that's what she wants to get you. And again, you have to drive that car for the rest of your life? What if you want a black or silver car. But she wants to get you a red car.

NONE of our opinions on color matter. I LIKE red cars. My husband doesn't. MY opinion doesn't matter on HIS car. Even if I am the one buying it. I want him to love it, because it is a gift. And giving a gift is about the RECIPIENT, and making them happy.

This is the same scenario.

NOW, I see she requested two carats. That's not as easy as the H thing. Because it's one thing to have a color preference. But the minimum size thing is the same as dictating a budget, IMO, and that's less okay.

BUT, this is still FRANKLY an easy thing that you are complicating unnecessarily. She's already opened up a dialog with you about the ring. That's GREAT. So just go to her and say... Listen, I have a budget I am sticking to it. Here are you options: "1.8 H color. Or 2 carat I color. Which one would you rather have. As you are wearing this, I want you to be happy, so please tell me which option you prefer. A 2 carat H color is out of budget though, so you do have to chose between either color or size."

And see which one she picks. And then do that.

It's her ring.
And yes, I can tell the difference between an I and H. But I'd still buy an I. I know people who CAN'T tell the difference between the two and STILL wouldn't buy the I color because it's not mindclean for them. And that's fine too.

Hers is the only opinion on this issue that matters. So go to her and talk to her.

It's great practice for marriage.

 

[mrs-b]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

For what it's worth, Jimyhoff, I can tell then difference between an H and an I. And spotting the difference between a G and an I is easy, in my opinion. For me, I is the color where you begin to see tint. It's one thing to say 'get great light return - you'll never notice the color since we view diamonds from the top, not the sides. But the truth is - I look at my ring from every angle, and if there's tint, I know about it! So, for me, H is my hard limit. Each color grading also has a range. My e-ring is an H, but it's on the G side of H, not the I side of H - and it makes a difference if you're as color sensitive as me. For what it's worth, I also like stones in the K-M range, if I'm buying an old cut or if I'm after a creamy look for one reason or another. But the I's and J's of this world, to my eye, are neither white, nor warm, so I steer clear.

And I agree with previous posts; if you have a limit, stay with it. But if you're feeling offended by her requests, you'd be better putting off the proposal till you no longer feel that way. Giving someone a ring after a request you found offensive isn't starting on the right foot.

So I'd buy the H (or the G, for that matter), put a halo of little diamonds around that bad boy, and you're going to be very hard pushed to tell if it's a 2ct stone or a 1.8. Or a 1.5 even, if you're like a lot of people. If she has slim fingers, a 1.5 with a halo will give you a bunch of finger coverage.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

She also has a 2ct request....

Can you tell the difference between and H and an I?

I also have a hard time "respecting" her color request. To be honest, I found it offensive that she even asked what color it was after I thought I spent a lot of money on something nice. Regardless, I'd consider dropping a little more on something that's going to last a long time if there really is a noticeable difference.

Well, I guess your only other choice would be to go lower on the clarity or find a cheaper GF ...

 

[jimyhoff]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

It's funny I put the two of these on my computer split-screen and watch them spin side-by-side and I can't tell any difference. To me this I is closer to an H than the other I's I looked at which was one reason I bought it.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.09-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-248746
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.03-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-267576

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

It's funny I put the two of these on my computer split-screen and watch them spin side-by-side and I can't tell any difference. To me this I is closer to an H than the other I's I looked at which was one reason I bought it.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.09-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-248746
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.03-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-267576

Yeah. That's not a valid comparison. Unless they are side by side in the SAME video.

You really just need to talk to her.

If you can't.

You shouldn't be proposing.

 

[NYCSpoonman]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

Wouldn't the blue fluorescence make the I look whiter? I just bought a 2 Carat G Vs2. They do not come cheap. I had to extend my budget 5K dollars for the same stats but a 1.8 carat. So it looks like you are in the same boat i was in. I wasn't going to stray from a G though. Se didn't request 2 carats but i knew in hear heart of hearts she wanted that magical number. Mind Clean color thing to the GF with the G color so that was my lower limit. Honestly, upside down I could tell the difference from G to I and J was very easy to see but right side up I had no clue. They all looked very similar. Basically I was told that from the top it's almost impossible but it's from the side where you can tell.

Also remember there are different "hues" in the color range. Could be a G color but could be gray or brown and not really white but it's still a G. So look out for that as well.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

I am a bit color sensitive and to be honest ... H is where I will go. I can see a difference between H and I but it also depends if it is a high H versus a low I. If you can accommodate, it is better to do it now versus down the road when it is problematic.

The other piece is that the gf may not be understanding the price difference .. perhaps when phrased to her about size over color ... the reaction may be different. Or a trip over the color grade. Or have her contribute the price difference. In the end .. it's all shared money

 

[GreenBling]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

If you are going to be husband and wife, you should be open and honest with each other. Can you just tell her your budget and let her choose 2ct I or smaller G/H?

 

[doberman]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

I'm quite color sensitive, always get 100% on those silly online color tests, so I can discern color in diamonds no prob., esp from the side. That being said, I have noticed that there seem to be high I's and low I's, ones closer to H and ones closer to J. I have seen some I's with tint and many without. But the important thing is that you and your GF need to treat this as you would treat anything in your marriage - talk and come to a plan of mutual agreement. Compromise - both of you.

And I believe Tiffany sells I color diamonds, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[TC1987]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

James Allen return period is 60 days. You have a 70% buyback option, and upgrade to a diamond costing 2x more. So, you need to get moving if you are not keeping that stone.
http://www.jamesallen.com/about-us/upgrade-policies.html


I think what Gypsy suggested is fair. This is an engagement ring. Personally, I think 2ct is a lot to expect or demand just for an engagement ring. My mother says she's seen enough marriages fail that she thinks there ought to be NO diamond e-ring or else go back to the .25c or .33ct, and then if the marriage lasts, say, 1-2 years, wife gets that big diamond ring. (Oh, believe me, I was shocked to hear that come out of her mouth, b/c she is usually leaning toward feminist.)

I don't think I would have been as patient as you. If trading this diamond back to JA is still an option, give Ms. Demands your original budget to work with, and tell her she can compromise on cut, clarity, or carat because this is it. Perhaps given that choice she can decide to maker her peace with the I color and be happy with it. Some women just don't know when to back off. Does she have the kind of job than can pay for a 2ct diamond of H or higher? If not, then she shuts up. If so, then maybe she can kick in the $5000 to make her dream come true.

Depending on what mounting it's going into, the side view can be hidden or minimized.

 

[jimyhoff]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

I appreciate all the responses. Let me just clear up a few things. She doesn't have a color demand, it's more a concern like "do you think an "I" is ok?". She knows as little about diamonds as I did 2 months ago. Originally she thought anything besides D-F is bad, which was way off-base. If given the choice she would chose size over color.

Some here have said G is the bottom limit. I figure if Cartier is selling the setting she wants with a 2ct H, VS2 for $70,000 an H is good enough. I spent a bunch of time watching Good Old Gold videos last night and staring at this diamond. To me, the difference between H and I seems like we're splitting hairs.

I really thought people would respond to this post saying the "I" is totally acceptable. Those were the responses I received when I was on here doing this diamond search. Now people are being a bit more critical about color, maybe because they're taking into account GF's thoughts?

I didn't buy it from James Allen. I bought it from another vendor that beat their "pricescope" price on the diamond by a bunch. Cash price on this diamond was under $17k and I was so proud of what I found and the deal I got.

My return policy is 30 days. I didn't give it to her right away so that was gone even before she saw it. I would guess if they can go back to the cutter or whoever and swap for something else I'd have the ability to exchange it. If they had to sit on it and find me something else I wouldn't expect them to do anything.

 

[artdecolover71]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

Did you show her this actual I colored diamond? I agree that there are high / low I's and maybe she would feel better if she saw this one and felt comfortable? I actually had an H with one of my last stones and went to an I this time, truly even from the side, I don't see the tint. Maybe face down during grading it is more obvious but side and top view, often it isn't to many people.

 

[chrono]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

My return policy is 30 days. I didn't give it to her right away so that was gone even before she saw it. I would guess if they can go back to the cutter or whoever and swap for something else I'd have the ability to exchange it. If they had to sit on it and find me something else I wouldn't expect them to do anything.

If you are out the return/refund period, it is likely that you cannot get your money back but you can always ask the vendor and explain that you are interested in a higher coloured diamond. They might be open to this if you are also buying/upgrading the diamond from them. In any case, I always recommend sticking to the original budget. If you can't have everything, then something has to give, and if size matters to her, then I would stick with the I colour.

 

[baby monster]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

I can't tell the difference face up between H and I. And that's how I wear my I color stone, face up.

If your gf hasn't seen lots of stones, she is probably falling for the marketing instead of being an educated consumer. Show her the stone you purchased and give an option to go to H with smaller stone or let her kick in some money to increase the budget. I agree with others that communication about expectations is key here.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

Oh, boy. Girls have to understand there is a budget. Does she have a clue about how much diamonds cost? 2 cts is huge for a first time engagement ring in most places. But to answer your question, yes, I can see the color in I color diamonds. I had to go to I color in my current stone because that was the highest color GOG had above 2 cts (and I have been married over 30 years to get that upgrade). But I would much rather have G-H color if I had the option.

You guys really need to always give the ring within the return period so that it can be returned or exchanged when the ring is being given without the girl's input. Tiffany definitely sells I color engagement rings, so that color is considered acceptable by at least one high end jeweler. But if she is color sensitive, I think G-H is the safer choice for an e-ring.

But I should add, if you went with a vendor who does that kind of discount, I doubt they stock many stones and it is probably too late. The cutter or supplier isn't going to take the stone back at this point and the vendor probably doesn't want to have to keep the stone in inventory. So really, asking us is meaningless if the stone can't be exchanged. Call your vendor immediately.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

Sorry, I missed your original thread and didn't respond in the original. However, I would have said the same about color.

I started with a G diamond but then to be mind clean .. I went up to an E. I then switched gears to OEC ... and ended up with an I (which was way too yellow for me) and now I am at a H. This is a H OEC which is typically much whiter than a H MRB. So in conclusion .. if you can, I would go with H (but honestly - I would stick with a G).

With all this said, my experience shows that Tiffany grades harder on color. If you are bench marking T&CO, you may find that your diamond shows up more yellow. I would dare say an I T&CO may be a G/H with GIA.

Also, videos are of zero help for color in my opinion. Comparing through videos are not accurate based on what I have seen in real life versus videos. I have seen many photos of diamonds that look white but in real life .. they are far from it.

In the end, it is all personal preference and tolerance. We have PSers say J are great ... but for me, I would never consider if for a e-ring. I have J diamonds in the 1.7 ct range but they are very clearly yellowish to me.

 

[msop04]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

I appreciate all the responses. Let me just clear up a few things. She doesn't have a color demand, it's more a concern like "do you think an "I" is ok?". She knows as little about diamonds as I did 2 months ago. Originally she thought anything besides D-F is bad, which was way off-base. If given the choice she would chose size over color.

Some here have said G is the bottom limit. I figure if Cartier is selling the setting she wants with a 2ct H, VS2 for $70,000 an H is good enough. I spent a bunch of time watching Good Old Gold videos last night and staring at this diamond. To me, the difference between H and I seems like we're splitting hairs.

I really thought people would respond to this post saying the "I" is totally acceptable. Those were the responses I received when I was on here doing this diamond search. Now people are being a bit more critical about color, maybe because they're taking into account GF's thoughts?

I didn't buy it from James Allen. I bought it from another vendor that beat their "pricescope" price on the diamond by a bunch. Cash price on this diamond was under $17k and I was so proud of what I found and the deal I got.

My return policy is 30 days. I didn't give it to her right away so that was gone even before she saw it. I would guess if they can go back to the cutter or whoever and swap for something else I'd have the ability to exchange it. If they had to sit on it and find me something else I wouldn't expect them to do anything.

I am a little late to this, but I agree with you, OP... an I is acceptable -- esp when she wants a 2 ct and already liked an H... I understand where she is coming from, because she's probably never even seen equally cut H & I color stones together for a comparison. Like your FF, I thought I had to have H or above before I really started looking at diamonds IRL -- no exceptions! I soon found that I valued size over color (I have a J), but only when I discovered I could totally go lower than an H - I liked I's!! Who knew??!! I guess I'll have to disagree with the responses to change to a smaller H stone before she even sees the I. I think she'll be extremely happy with her big whopping 2 carat I. Also, you got an amazing deal -- congrats to you!!

You've gone through a lot and taken a lot of time to research to try to meet your FF's request of a white, 2 ct stone -- you've done a lot more than most guys to make her dream come true. Let her see it, because I truly don't think she'll be disappointed. Once she has that bad boy on her finger, the last thing she'll see is "yellow." If she's anxious about it, I would take her to a jewelry store that sells GIA and AGS and have her directly compare it with a 1.7-1.8-ish ct. H with the same XXX/Ideal cut and similar specs. Explain to her that you want to make her happy, and these are the choices. If she preferes the smaller H, then get her the smaller H. But, I truly think she'll choose the larger stone, because the two will appear so close to the same color (I think you got a high I). This way, you have presented her with an option and shown you want to make her happy -- she has the choice!

I'll admit, I was greedy and a bit selfish when it came to my ering. I wanted a 3 ct colorless stone, but I knew my budget wouldn't allow a white enough stone for me. My choices were around a 2.18 I, a 2.43 J, or a 2.98 K. I chose the middle of the road -- best of both worlds! ...and I'd do it all over again!

I know it's hard, but please try not to stress over this. Just propose and give it to her -- then go from there. Post photos when you get the ring, keep us updated, and GOOD LUCK to you!!!

 

[msop04]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

I can't tell the difference face up between H and I. And that's how I wear my I color stone, face up.

If your gf hasn't seen lots of stones, she is probably falling for the marketing instead of being an educated consumer. Show her the stone you purchased and give an option to go to H with smaller stone or let her kick in some money to increase the budget. I agree with others that communication about expectations is key here.

I think baby monster is right on with this...

 

[Laila619]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

If you want my blunt, honest opinion, I think your girlfriend is being a little, er, too demanding. It's one thing to state preferences, but she seems ungrateful and a little spoiled about this. You got her a beautifully cut diamond, better than anything she'd probably see in a mall or at Tiffany or Cartier. If she wants a higher color diamond, then she needs to go down in size. For her to demand a higher color *and* at least 2 carats seems like a bit much. She needs to pick one or the other. And also Tiffany itself sells I color diamonds, so I'm not understanding why it wouldn't be "good enough."

 

[mrs-b]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

I just wanted to add - we need to remember that we only have the OP's version of this. His 'demand' might be her 'request', but if he's feeling offended, he's going to see her requests through those 'eyes', if you kwim.

Anyway, just think we should hold off making judgment calls on her approach since this is very much a 'one side of the story' scenario. For all we know, she might be more than willing to make up the difference if she knew the situation. And I have heard of SO many guys who took the 'you just tell me what you want and I'll take it from there' approach, who were then taken aback when what their fiancee-to-be wanted was an F colored 3 carat stone! I'm guessing the lady in question doesn't know the budget - but there again, I have no idea.

ETA Anyway, to answer the question again - yes, I can see the difference between an H and an I, and most color sensitive people can, where as most non-color sensitive people can't. So the question isn't "can you tell the difference between an H and an I?" The question really is "Can my fiancee-to-be tell the difference?" No way to know that without showing her. An online forum won't answer that question.

 

[chrono]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

And to add to Ms B, even if you can tell the difference between an H and I, will you (she) mind it? I can tell the difference but I don't mind it for certain styles of diamonds.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

yes I can see the difference IRL b/t H & I color. Maybe, b/c one is a high H and the other one is a low I color.

 

[Agnasia]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

I do think it is important to take your girlfriend's wishes on board and you don't want this niggling her in the future and having to change the diamond a couple of years down the line. If it really matters to her then for you to dismiss it or not respect her feelings isn't great, but I get that you've majorly done your research and not many guys do that. BUT she needs to get her head round diamonds a bit so that she knows what she is asking for. The budget is the budget and she shouldn't push you beyond that unless she wants to make up the difference, that is only fair to you.

So I totally agree with what others are saying - she needs to look at the I and compare it to a H, is she colour sensitive or is a marketing thing she has in her head that I isn't good enough. If she definitely decides she wants a H then you go down in size to accommodate your budget OR she adds in the cash to get to 2 carats. You both need to be open and honest, it's what good marriages are based on BTW not that my opinion matters but 2 carats is blinking huge and I would worship my hubby to be forever and ever if he got me a rock that size (I colour doesn't bother me)!!!!

 

[Fancygems]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

I do think it is important to take your girlfriend's wishes on board and you don't want this niggling her in the future and having to change the diamond a couple of years down the line. If it really matters to her then for you to dismiss it or not respect her feelings isn't great, but I get that you've majorly done your research and not many guys do that. BUT she needs to get her head round diamonds a bit so that she knows what she is asking for. The budget is the budget and she shouldn't push you beyond that unless she wants to make up the difference, that is only fair to you.

So I totally agree with what others are saying - she needs to look at the I and compare it to a H, is she colour sensitive or is a marketing thing she has in her head that I isn't good enough. If she definitely decides she wants a H then you go down in size to accommodate your budget OR she adds in the cash to get to 2 carats. You both need to be open and honest, it's what good marriages are based on BTW not that my opinion matters but 2 carats is blinking huge and I would worship my hubby to be forever and ever if he got me a rock that size (I colour doesn't bother me)!!!!

I agree if my hubby have me a 2 carat xyz color diamond I would fall to my knees.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Worth upgrading this 2ct I color diamond before setting

OK. So now that you've given us more information, here are my (revised) thoughts.

You are out of the return policy. So PROPOSE NOW with the I. Let her wear it for 2-3 weeks. If there is an issue with the color and you guys want to go back to the vendor and see what he can do for you, you might as well do it AFTER she's seen this one and worn it for a while. Not going to make any difference, it's out of the return policy.

You really should have proposed within the return window, but that ship has sailed.

That said, being color sensitive isn't the same as being able to spot color. Spotting color just means your eyes work correctly. Color sensitive means that you can spot the color AND YOU LET IT BOTHER YOU.

I do still think that communication is important. And so are budgets. So if you DO decide TOGETHER to upgrade the color, I would seriously consider going to 1.8 carats at that time. 17k is a healthy budget.

Additionally, I would advise that any lurkers not go to Tiffany for their color tolerance evaluation. Tiffany uses an in house grading system. Hearts on Fire dealers are a much better comparison because they use AGS for their lab reports.

Best of luck to you!