Need advice on DIFFICULT neighbor

[LetItShine]

Thanks! Fortunately the neighborhood is full of really nice families. I know several of them well as it is primarily filled with children who go to the same school. It just so happens that my new neighbor is a jerk! I guess you can't like all your neighbors

Here is a photo I just took of his house. Hard to tell from the picture but I think you can see the puddle around the foundation. Water is dripping into it from the gutters! He has no downspout! Just a hole where the downspout should be! That is not from my sump pump!!!!!! I agree if flooding were a real issue that he needs to take appropriate steps to protect his property.

 

[Dee*Jay]

Do you happen to know an attorney who can write you a letter? If so, I would put him on notice that you have not YET notified the police that he trespassed and vandalized your property, however any further action of this nature will be promptly reported to the authorities. I would also inform him that you have considered his position that your pipe was POTENTIALLY causing issues to his property, however upon observation you see that the missing downspouts on HIS OWN property are causing water to pool directly around his foundation. This also tells him that you are paying attention and looking at his house as closely (well, OK, maybe not) as he is looking at yours. Just my two cents.

Sorry for the brief response (today is April 15 and I'm preparing taxes as fast I can get the info in the system!) but you get the gist.

Good luck!

ETA: Not sure if you have the wherewithal and/or the inclination, but I would also put the pipe back in exactly the configuration it was in before just to prove a point.

 

[movie zombie]

your picture reinforces my opinion that you would be wise to step up to the plate on this issue re filing the police report and letting them tell him he's been reported for vandalism. with no downspout to take care of that water it is just going to sit. take more pictures if you can...I'd actually walk up to the property line and do this. if he asks what you're doing, just ignore him. if he comes onto your property call the police. document document and document more with this guy and do allow the police to come and take a report. if they want to talk to him let them but s how them the pictures before they do. It looks like he is blaming you for his lack of maintenance on his own property. it is possible that the water on your property made it worse but I'm betting he's been negligent.

 

[LetItShine]

I do love the suggestion of putting the pipe back...just to make a point My brother is an attorney. He deals with corporate law but I will get his opinion.

 

[aljdewey]

I mean, the pipe WAS going to be fixed before next winter anyway, right? So where is the harm, if the job has been done reasonably well?

The harm is that this person did something (altered another person's property) without their permission to do so. I don't care why he did it; it was flat out wrong and inexcusable.

Frustration does not allow one to bypass the law and encroach on someone else's rights. If that guy was frustrated, he could have pursued appropriate channels himself (appealed to the town, etc. etc.).

He approached OP knowing that it was a new owner. OP said they will fix it once the ground thaws enough to perform the required fix. If the neighbor needed a more immediate interim fix, he should have asked the OP for it when they spoke. If he had and OP refused, that would be the time for him to inform her that he's going to approach the town with his complaint.

Under NO circumstances did he have the right to come onto her property and take it upon himself to alter a thing.

 

[aljdewey]

personally, I'd want him to know the police had been called. why? he might actually realize he'd gone too far and in that case he might actually apologize. if he doesn't know then he has not reason to question his decisions or have to take responsibility for them.

1000000% agree with this. Letit, this jackass wasn't worried about neighbor relations with you at all......and apparently not with the flipper either.

His initial interaction with you was to be rude and demanding - how do you think you're going to improve relations with this jerk? It's pretty clear from his behavior that neighbor relations aren't high on his priority list, and it's already clear that he's going to take matters into his own hands whenever he feels like it. I don't see how it could get worse - worse is already happening from where I sit. The man touched something on your house!

MZ is completely right - this guy needs to know that such behavior won't be accepted. The whole point of being on friendly terms with neighbors is to avoid the very thing that's happening now, and since it's already happening, that's out the window. If you don't set a clear tone now, you're actually inviting more offensive behavior.

 

[momhappy]

Pictures still don't prove anything, so again, unless I knew with 100% certainty that my drainage issue was causing absolutely no harm, then it's all just speculation (having said that, I doubt that your improper drainage is causing your neighbor's basement to flood).
Anyway, I'm sorry that you're dealing with this, OP. The situation sucks and you've been put in an awkward position for sure. It sounds like you want to keep the peace, but you also don't want to have your toes stepped on by this guy. My only advice to you would be to go with your gut. If you feel that you should file a formal report, then do so. You will receive lots of different advice, but only you can decide which course of action might be right for you. I wish you the best of luck with your new home (and with your new neighbor) I will cross my fingers that this wil be a one time incident with your neighbor.

 

[quaddio]

Consider posting this sign facing his property along with 'No Trespassing'

 

[movie zombie]

quad, a bit over the top i'm afraid for the OP and the situation me thinks.
but: where can I get one of those?!

 

[zoebartlett]

I agree with Alj and MZ. I'd be livid if someone touched something on my property without my consent. I don't care how frustrated your neighbor was, he had no right to take matters into his own hands. It's not his property.

 

[junebug17]

I can't believe this guy did such a thing. In all my years of owning a home I've never come across or heard of a situation like this. What this man did is illegal and has to be addressed. I'm a pretty easy - going person but I would be livid if this happened to me. To me it's immaterial whether or not your pipe is causing his basement to flood - and after seeing those pics, there's no way it is.

If you don't want to get the police involved, I like Deejays's suggestion - your brother could even write the letter. You've got to send a message that you are upset by his behavior and will not tolerate any further incidents. If you don't he might very well feel entitled to come onto your property without your knowledge in the future. Now is the time to set boundaries. I wouldn't worry about trying to get along with this guy, he's made it clear he has no interest in getting along with you. And to do anything anonymously would defeat the whole purpose - I'm sure he would know it was you anyway.

What is your husband's reaction to all of this?

 

[quaddio]

quad, a bit over the top i'm afraid for the OP and the situation me thinks.
but: where can I get one of those?!

This is a joke

 

[LetItShine]

Junebug- My husbands attitude is that of disbelief. He just can't fathom that the neighbor would do that. He also thinks it just really stinks. We love are current neighborhood and its going to be hard enough moving as it is. I know the new neighbor is an idiot but I probably know close to 50 families in the new neighborhood so at least I won't feel isolated. My brother lives in DC. I think I will give him a call.

Thanks for the support everyone! I will keep you posted. Think this is going to be a interesting ride!

 

[KaeKae]

I agree with Matata, too.
Unless I misunderstood, technically, you don't KNOW it was him who moved the pipe, right? So, by calling the police and filing a report, you wouldn't be able to accuse him. Instead, make the report, as if you don't know (or even if it comes out with the police, don't name him in your complaint) but you will have an official record of the incident, should things escalate and this is just the first of a pattern of behavior.

 

[junebug17]

Junebug- My husbands attitude is that of disbelief. He just can't fathom that the neighbor would do that. He also thinks it just really stinks. We love are current neighborhood and its going to be hard enough moving as it is. I know the new neighbor is an idiot but I probably know close to 50 families in the new neighborhood so at least I won't feel isolated. My brother lives in DC. I think I will give him a call.

Thanks for the support everyone! I will keep you posted. Think this is going to be a interesting ride!

Ok, thanks LIS, I was just curious...and I feel the same way he does! I just can't believe it, I would never dream of doing something like this - I'm so sorry about this situation, I hope you can work this out so that this neighbor keeps his distance from here on out.

 

[VapidLapid]

I was being sarcastic when I said to thank him. My meaning was to be nice while the camera was recording so that you get him to admit he did it. Without that you have nothing to back up your report. Then make the report. If he gets away with it once he will walk all over you. It is illegal to go onto someone else's property with out permission and make changes to their building's systems, even it if were to have fixed his problem. I second the call to put in security cameras.

 

[LaraOnline]

I know there is a cultural difference here - I don't live in the states - so I'm finding the rush to lawyers and cops and signs with guns on them really erm 'culturally interesting'.
If there has been no actual destruction, hey maybe the ad hoc pipe system has actually been improved - I would hold my fire and bring out lawyers and cops when something more negative happened.
Sure, the guy may be foolish. In identifying your piping as exacerbating his flooding problem he may not be looking at the full issue of his drainage.
Or he might just be broke and not able to upgrade his own system just now.
But he is obviously desperate for a solution of some sort.
The lack of empathy is interesting. You have to live next to this guy.
Why not try and be calm and focus on solutions to promote happy neighbourhood living?

 

[aljdewey]

I know there is a cultural difference here - I don't live in the states - so I'm finding the rush to lawyers and cops and signs with guns on them really erm 'culturally interesting'.
If there has been no actual destruction, hey maybe the ad hoc pipe system has actually been improved - I would hold my fire and bring out lawyers and cops when something more negative happened.
Sure, the guy may be foolish. In identifying your piping as exacerbating his flooding problem he may not be looking at the full issue of his drainage.
Or he might just be broke and not able to upgrade his own system just now.
But he is obviously desperate for a solution of some sort.
The lack of empathy is interesting. You have to live next to this guy.
Why not try and be calm and focus on solutions to promote happy neighbourhood living?

Lack of empathy? Are you kidding?

There has been actual destruction: he sawed one of her pipes!!! I don't know where you live, but here, what he did is not legal. I'm flabbergasted that you think this isn't 'negative enough' to warrant reaction; if this would actually be welcomed where you live, I guess I'd find your section of the planet equally 'culturally interesting' as well.

If you want to take the speculative "maybe he did a great service" tack, let's run it the other way too. Maybe his hack fix has now created a drainage problem that will end up damaging her property. Maybe the elbow he put on to redirect the water is going to ultimately damage someone else's property. If these things happen, who's going to be financially responsible for that damage....the clown neighbor? Probably not - it will likely be the new homeowner.

If the guy really is just broke and can't fix his own crap, that doesn't entitle him to hack someone else's, and I'm beyond shocked that you think it's ok or excusable in any way. Happy neighborhood living requires all parties to be respectful and calm and solution focused, right? It's clear that someone (assclown neighbor) already lacks those skills since he decided by bypass the calm, happy neighborhood living route and instead opted to hack his neighbor's house.

You're 100% right.....OP has to live next to this guy, and if she doesn't establish that this isn't ok, it Capital-W WILL happen again, in which case happy neighborhood living will be out the window anyway.

 

[aljdewey]

duplicate post removed

 

[Gypsy]

I know there is a cultural difference here - I don't live in the states - so I'm finding the rush to lawyers and cops and signs with guns on them really erm 'culturally interesting'.
If there has been no actual destruction, hey maybe the ad hoc pipe system has actually been improved - I would hold my fire and bring out lawyers and cops when something more negative happened.
Sure, the guy may be foolish. In identifying your piping as exacerbating his flooding problem he may not be looking at the full issue of his drainage.
Or he might just be broke and not able to upgrade his own system just now.
But he is obviously desperate for a solution of some sort.
The lack of empathy is interesting. You have to live next to this guy.
Why not try and be calm and focus on solutions to promote happy neighbourhood living?

Lack of empathy? Are you kidding?

There has been actual destruction: he sawed one of her pipes!!! I don't know where you live, but here, what he did is not legal. I'm flabbergasted that you think this isn't 'negative enough' to warrant reaction; if this would actually be welcomed where you live, I guess I'd find your section of the planet equally 'culturally interesting' as well.

If you want to take the speculative "maybe he did a great service" tack, let's run it the other way too. Maybe his hack fix has now created a drainage problem that will end up damaging her property. Maybe the elbow he put on to redirect the water is going to ultimately damage someone else's property. If these things happen, who's going to be financially responsible for that damage....the clown neighbor? Probably not - it will likely be the new homeowner.

If the guy really is just broke and can't fix his own crap, that doesn't entitle him to hack someone else's, and I'm beyond shocked that you think it's ok or excusable in any way. Happy neighborhood living requires all parties to be respectful and calm and solution focused, right? It's clear that someone (assclown neighbor) already lacks those skills since he decided by bypass the calm, happy neighborhood living route and instead opted to hack his neighbor's house.

You're 100% right.....OP has to live next to this guy, and if she doesn't establish that this isn't ok, it Capital-W WILL happen again, in which case happy neighborhood living will be out the window anyway.

No surprise here. But I agree with Aldj

There are situations where empathy is appropriate. Destruction of private property and trespass are not one of them.

 

[LaraOnline]

Well my koombaya response got the feedback I expected lol.
So I'll leave you to it, fellow PS-ers.
Good luck settling into your lovely new home and neighbourhood, OP!

 

[chemgirl]

I wouldn't involve the police. What I would do is change everything back to how it was and let the neighbor know you did it. That pipe is very close to your house. I would be nervous that any changes could cause water in my basement!

I would get a few quotes to move the pipe and casually ask if they think the current setup is flooding the neighbor's basement. Then I would let the neighbor know that I didn't appreciate someone going on my property, that the pipe has been changed back to the old configuration, and I'm dealing with such and such company to move it at the earliest opportunity (to show I'm serious about moving it). If he balked I would bring up how the professional doesn't think its causing the water problems and point out his own downspout issue.

Yes he will problems be ticked off, but he gets the idea that you're not going to be messed with. The if he does something like this again I would consider getting the police involved.

I would also get a quote for a fence while I'm at it. This guy doesn't sound like someone I'd want to see every day.

LaraOnline, for what it's worth I'm not American and I'm often shocked by the cultural differences I see here.

Eta: That came across wrong. I think my culture is generally conflict avoiders. We are taught in school to run from an attacker, get to a safe place, and call for help. It seems that other cultures are more likely to stand and fight.

 

[LetItShine]

Thanks again everyone! This is a tricky situation and I think there are many ways it could be handled. I agree that the worst action would be no action on my part. Last night I was thinking there was no way I could live next to that man. I could always sell the house and walk away. Today, I'm feeling like this man isn't going to scare me off. I can deal with him!

I decided on my first course of actions. The forecast is decent this weekend. IF the ground is thawed, my husband and I are going to dig the pipe underground. Im sure this will extract the neighbor from his house as he will be curious where exactly we are putting things. This will give us a chance to talk to him. Maybe moving the pipe is all it will take??? I doubt it. Anyway, we can gauge his attitude and determine then how to address it with him. In either case, he will know that it isn't okay to alter things on our property. We can also point out that it looks to us like he is the cause of his own flooding. If he's a jerk, the cops get called at that time and a police report filed. I think it's best to start slow and become more aggressive if I need to.

I'll keep you posted!

 

[Meezermom]

From the picture of this guy's house, I'm betting that his property isn't graded correctly, and from the time he probably moved in whenever it rains, it goes to that lowest corner. This has nothing to do with any water from your property. He trespassed onto your property, and he cut a pipe which is part of your house (that IS vandalism), and it's time to file a police report and have a lawyer's letter sent to this guy to stay off your property. You can be as nice as possible forever, and it won't make a bit of difference to this lunatic. A lawyer's letter will get the message across to him that you mean business, and you won't be pushed around, and if necessary, you will press charges and file a lawsuit to recover money for any damage he has caused. Sometimes it has to hit them in the pocket. Also, you will save yourself a lot of aggravation if you put up a fence (have your survey ready, because he's going to complain about the placement of the fence) with a locked gate. Place the fence just a few inches within the property line. Been there.

 

[momhappy]

Thanks again everyone! This is a tricky situation and I think there are many ways it could be handled. I agree that the worst action would be no action on my part. Last night I was thinking there was no way I could live next to that man. I could always sell the house and walk away. Today, I'm feeling like this man isn't going to scare me off. I can deal with him!

I decided on my first course of actions. The forecast is decent this weekend. IF the ground is thawed, my husband and I are going to dig the pipe underground. Im sure this will extract the neighbor from his house as he will be curious where exactly we are putting things. This will give us a chance to talk to him. Maybe moving the pipe is all it will take??? I doubt it. Anyway, we can gauge his attitude and determine then how to address it with him. In either case, he will know that it isn't okay to alter things on our property. We can also point out that it looks to us like he is the cause of his own flooding. If he's a jerk, the cops get called at that time and a police report filed. I think it's best to start slow and become more aggressive if I need to.

I'll keep you posted!

I think that you are wise to engage in a dialogue with him and see where it goes.
If the neighbor remains unreasonable and you feel the need to involve officials at that time, then by all means, do so. If you truly want to live next to this guy in peace, communication is key and how you handle your interactions with him in the beginning, will set the tone for future relations. Best of luck - try to stay positive - and keep us posted

 

[TC1987]

I do drop by the house on an almost daily basis. I called the police department. They suggested I file a report. I really dont want the neighbor to know I called the police because I fear it would escalate the situation. I was told that the report could state that I don't want to press charges. That way no uniformed officers would show up at the house. Seems I could file a report for the records and the neighbor would never have to find out??? I didn't file the report yet...still wondering if its the best course. Maybe when I have my drain brought out to the street he will leave me alone?

Oh, I would definitely file a report. You have no proof that this man actually did anything, so I can't see pressing charges. But do report it, because someone trespassed on your land and cut and modified the piping, and that is not legal. Do mention that conversation that you had with the guy and describe any threatening or odd behavior that he exhibited. Let the police decide whether or not they want to go question him about it. The fact that they show up and nose around and ask him if he observed anything going on at the house next door might be sufficient leverage to settle him down. But he truly sounds like an ass, because unless you are pumping Lake Champlain out of your basement daily, there is no way that standing water all came from your home. His home is in the drainage path, and that's his misfortune.

My ex husband was employed by state government, and he taught me to go talk to the NRCS office before buying any property. Maybe the state DEP, too. NCRS deals with soil types and waterways and they have maps of drainage systems and also soil types - is the soil clay, slip-prone type, purely fill dirt, flood-prone area, or what. DEP tracks mines and mine subsidence and some other things like old landfills and possibly buried industrial waste. Cover all the bases, before you plunk down money on land or home. And of course make all offers contingent upon a satisfactory report from this, that, and everything under the sun.

 

[iLander]

File a report. Ask to have a cop go talk to him to show him the report. BACK HIM OFF NOW OR YOU WILL REGRET IT.

I had a neighbor that just WOULDN'T stop pushing us around. Every time we trimmed our bushes, she complained about the lack of privacy. But when we let them grow, she complained that the bushes were overrunning her yard. Our house was the reason her lawn flooded, even though she's at the bottom of the hill. Dumb crap like that for 8 years. Whine, complain, blame. But then, the ultimate:

She cut down one of our trees, that was fully on our property, except for one branch that was across the property line.

Instead of cutting the branch, she had her lawn guy walk 5 feet across our lawn and saw down our 20 foot tree!

When I saw the stump I called the cops. It was a protected tree in our locality, and if I had removed it, I would be fined $500. I couldn't allow her to subject me to a summons and a fine.

The cops went and talked to her. She admitted cutting it down, she was fined, and she has to mitigate by planting more endangered trees on her property.

But she has never spoken to me again. She wrote me a long letter, cc'ing the city vegetation department, about how it was a lousy tree (it gets so large, it drops leaves, etc). It was a Mahogany.

But, whatever, she doesn't talk to me anymore, and it's a relief. If I hadn't tried to "be nice" all these years, I wouldn't have had to put up with this crap for so long. Because people like that see niceness as a sign of weakness to be taken advantage of. They will NEVER stop pushing, it's not in their nature.

Call the cops, have a lawyer write a letter, raise a stink. If you don't do it now, you will be doing it in the future, for something else, for sure.

 

[momhappy]

^No one here could possibly predict how this situation will play out. To say that OP will regret any one given course of action just doesn't make sense to me. There are any number of ways that this situation could be handled and it sounds like OP has made a plan that works for her and her family. The story above is one way to handle (and resolve) a situation, but there are others. As I mentioned before, I have successfully handled neighbor situations without involving the police, so it just goes to show that these outcomes are not predictable and there is no one-size-fits-all approach

 

[LetItShine]

Re: Need advice on DIFFICULT neighbor***UPDATE***

My husband got a phone call from the old owner (the flipper). He paid his plumber to come to the house Monday and move the pipe. Wish he would have called sooner! Anyway, apparently while we were gone on vacation the neighbor was harassing the past owner about the pipe. He said he was going to take legal action against us. There is NO legal action to take, but whatever. The flipper knew we were on vacation and was trying to protect our interests. He didn't want us to be harassed more once we moved so he moved the pipe. Glad I didn't accuse or file a report Neighbor is still an under informed idiot so I will be watching his actions! Let you know if anything big develops

 

[Dee*Jay]

Woah, what an interesting twist of events!

I am really glad your neighbor did not do this! I am also sorry I was so fast to jump to conclusions (honestly, it never even occurred to me that someone other than the neighbor could/would have done this) and suggest getting a lawyer involved.