Why Food Stamps Are NOT A Scam

[ImperfectGirl]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrea-gardner/to-the-woman-behind-me-in_b_5082769.html

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Well, just let me say that , I, am not reponsible for starving children in America, or my own county or anywhere else in the world and, that you would dare make such an argument on here leaves me spechless.

To use every other type of societal benefit, many of which improves life for everyone as a way to discredit any discussion that many have on abuses in the foodstamp program also adds nothing to the discu.ssion.

Yes, one of the worst abuses does sit with the hedgefunds who pay such low taxes its ridiculous. Legislation is required by someone.

Lobbying is a natural way of getting Gov't attention. I accept some things, as I cant fight everything.

Cutting benefits during the Clinton years did stop pregnant 16 yr olds from getting their own free apartments and have the boyfriends move-in and make more babies.And it worked.

I don't think liberals should be listened to anymore, as well as those on the right. Neither have perspective anymore.


Please, don't let anyone make you feel responsible for "the starving children argument". Thats one bimbo.



Annette

 

[vintagelover229]

Fly by post here.

I come from a family and only have half siblings. I have 3 sisters from my mother and one brother from my father. My father is on SSI for mental/physical issues and my mom has been off meds/assistance for many years now-but not until her early 50's.

I was brought up on what seems to be the family that is frowned upon-the people having babies and abusing the system. In fact the whole town I grew up in for many years is apart of that system.

Many people are unable to get better work. They don't marry bc the shift work (in a factory called ADM-used to be nick named another man dead-you can tell how much they are) that produces people who are alcoholics because the job SUCKS. But it's one of the few 'good paying' jobs in the area but they STILL can't afford to feed their families bc it's still not enough. They usually have kids by a few different women-most men are paying child support-and most mothers are broken and the men aren't real men.

They have all been raised in this cycle and most hate it but are unable to pull themselves out due to lack of jobs-good education-and many other things.

I am grateful for breaking the cycle but I am one of few. I do not judge my family and am grateful for the system even though its broken and many abuse it.

The rich (1%) anger me FAR more than those who use/abuse the system since the 1% are educated enough to know how to take advantage of the loop holes and abuse the 99% into doing their back and soul breaking labour-often at the expensive of peoples mental and emotional health. Not being able to provide for your family cuts deep-the judgement is harsh from 'those who have' as if they don't want-and didn't aspire-to be more-to be better. Most by the time they mature enough to realize the sins of their fathers have left them so scared and the choices they made while unable to fully understand that there were other choices to be had (even if they had the chance) have left them pretty much unable to do much about it.

I'm glad to see the compassion but to see people wanting to 'limit' and to 'control' even more because they have 'to many kids' or 'to many different partners' or are selling them for drugs (to escape their lives which are pretty hard and crappy I might add) really saddens me. Most probably do not know what it feels like to grow up and not know anything different. To have come from that-and to see it in my family who really do love-and really do try-and really do long and work hard for more-but is impossible for a number of different reasons-are clueless. Yes that's right-I said clueless.

I am now more mature than most people in the town I went too. Not only mentally-emotionally and spiritually but I can see what went wrong-how it continues to be wrong-but I understand why they are the way that they are and how hard it is to break free even when given the choice. Most of us don't feel any value and are only surviving the only way we know how. The difference between survival and thriving and living is something totally different. Many of them because parents too soon and never had a chance.

I have so much more I could say but I need to go. I doubt I explained myself very well anyways since it's quite an emotional topic for me. But I'm grateful that our hard earned money goes towards those who may or may not need it. Cuz I know for a fact the interest rate the banks make off of our mortgage and CC's far exceed anything they really need. When you can make more in one minute off of one investment than all of the tax payers pay out to assistants or bail out companies and still get your big bonuses then you should be ashamed of yourself. There is a difference between wealthy and controlling the wealth of the world. Of which the latter falls into the hands of a very select few-so much so they can determine the wealth of the remainder quite effectively.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Easy response...American children are children and should not have to resort to prostitution or gangs to feed themselves, even if they are orphaned or have irresponsible parents. Not only is it best for those kids not to enter prostitution and gangs, its better and probably less expensive for society to give out food rather than combat the criminal activity poverty and hunger create.[/quote]

ID
Who said anything about starving the kids?.. I am pointing fingers at bad parenting.

 

[ruby59]

Why on earth penalize children in large families? Have we gone mad? Parents have "too many" kids, so we let the excess ones starve to death?

Deb

And this was exactly the response I was hoping to get.

People rant and rail against the people with many children (as has been written in this thread) and it made sense to have everyone argue it to the logical conclusion; what is the alternative, starvation?

I thought it was important to bring this out, my suggestion was not how I actually feel. I'm also hoping others will expand on reproductive freedom as we go further along.

But I am kinda liking the fingerprint idea, ID's can be faked.

I'm really bothered by the number of posters that have pointed out comments disparaging the use of food stamps because they're given to "mother's with four kids with different last names." Obviously, many have made the point to mention "different last names" and "different fathers"--rather than to be bothered simply by the number of children--they're bothered that those children didn't come out of a single nuclear family. The sense of moral superiority that comes through those posts is just stunning. As if penalizing the kids will turn back time and ensure that they were never born, or as if rich people are all angelic virgins?

I am one of those posters and am only speaking for myself. What someone else does is their business as long as they are taking care of business. It is not who the father is or how many children you have but the fact that you cannot take care of them. And it is not moral superiority but common sense. By the government finally putting their foot down might not help those already born ( for which there are many programs already in place) but might stop others from abusing the system.

I could not access the links on the other page but as far as the low figure of those who are abusing SNAP, I would assume it is for the number of those who are actually caught. From what I have read and have been told by family who deal with it on a daily basis, it is not exactly a high priority crime considering what else our city and state governments have to deal with. But from what I have read and seen in our State, it is a lot bigger than the figure quoted.

 

[ksinger]

Fly by post here.

I come from a family and only have half siblings. I have 3 sisters from my mother and one brother from my father. My father is on SSI for mental/physical issues and my mom has been off meds/assistance for many years now-but not until her early 50's.

I was brought up on what seems to be the family that is frowned upon-the people having babies and abusing the system. In fact the whole town I grew up in for many years is apart of that system.

Many people are unable to get better work. They don't marry bc the shift work (in a factory called ADM-used to be nick named another man dead-you can tell how much they are) that produces people who are alcoholics because the job SUCKS. But it's one of the few 'good paying' jobs in the area but they STILL can't afford to feed their families bc it's still not enough. They usually have kids by a few different women-most men are paying child support-and most mothers are broken and the men aren't real men.

They have all been raised in this cycle and most hate it but are unable to pull themselves out due to lack of jobs-good education-and many other things.

I am grateful for breaking the cycle but I am one of few. I do not judge my family and am grateful for the system even though its broken and many abuse it.

The rich (1%) anger me FAR more than those who use/abuse the system since the 1% are educated enough to know how to take advantage of the loop holes and abuse the 99% into doing their back and soul breaking labour-often at the expensive of peoples mental and emotional health. Not being able to provide for your family cuts deep-the judgement is harsh from 'those who have' as if they don't want-and didn't aspire-to be more-to be better. Most by the time they mature enough to realize the sins of their fathers have left them so scared and the choices they made while unable to fully understand that there were other choices to be had (even if they had the chance) have left them pretty much unable to do much about it.

I'm glad to see the compassion but to see people wanting to 'limit' and to 'control' even more because they have 'to many kids' or 'to many different partners' or are selling them for drugs (to escape their lives which are pretty hard and crappy I might add) really saddens me. Most probably do not know what it feels like to grow up and not know anything different. To have come from that-and to see it in my family who really do love-and really do try-and really do long and work hard for more-but is impossible for a number of different reasons-are clueless. Yes that's right-I said clueless.

I am now more mature than most people in the town I went too. Not only mentally-emotionally and spiritually but I can see what went wrong-how it continues to be wrong-but I understand why they are the way that they are and how hard it is to break free even when given the choice. Most of us don't feel any value and are only surviving the only way we know how. The difference between survival and thriving and living is something totally different. Many of them because parents too soon and never had a chance.

I have so much more I could say but I need to go. I doubt I explained myself very well anyways since it's quite an emotional topic for me. But I'm grateful that our hard earned money goes towards those who may or may not need it. Cuz I know for a fact the interest rate the banks make off of our mortgage and CC's far exceed anything they really need. When you can make more in one minute off of one investment than all of the tax payers pay out to assistants or bail out companies and still get your big bonuses then you should be ashamed of yourself. There is a difference between wealthy and controlling the wealth of the world. Of which the latter falls into the hands of a very select few-so much so they can determine the wealth of the remainder quite effectively.

I'm so sorry you and your family have endured that, and so happy you reached escape velocity. My husband teaches the kids that you were, and he too sees too many fall back into that generational poverty. It breaks his heart. I think that's where the empathy is most lacking - people are unable to imagine the level of grinding, soul-crushing despair that so many in poverty have.

My husband and I have some friends, a married couple - very successful local business people, each in his/her own right, both restaurateurs. The wife is running for lt. governor of my state, which is deep deep red. They are not. Anyway, one of the things they did was called "The Living Wage Experiment". They moved out of their home, got minimum wage jobs (I forget what he worked at, she worked in a school cafeteria), and moved into a run-down $350 a month house (yes, they have those here). They documented the whole thing on video. Since we know them, we know they did not cheat in any way. They lost about 15 pounds each (she is already tiny, and he looked like a street person), he rode a borrowed bike because they could not afford the gas, and the wife sold her plasma to afford the extra gas to send her husband to their son's football game in another town (yes, he's in private school). They were both stressed as hell, and THAT was with them both having crazy money skills AND knowing it was coming to an end in a month. Neither one of them expected THAT part of it. I know, the husband's health suffered during that time (he even forbore to see a doctor, just like someone who could not afford insurance would do - they are both in their 50's) and he is still not totally recovered. The one thing that I remember is him saying how he could more clearly understand now the despair and lack of ability to even MAKE a decent choice with one's options so limited.

I gotta say, this couple is so unexpected in a place like Oklahoma. I do so hope she wins, although her chances are pretty slim.

 

[AGBF]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrea-gardner/to-the-woman-behind-me-in_b_5082769.html

Thanks for posting this link, IG. I loved it! It was "good news" for once!

Deb

 

[AGBF]

Please, don't let anyone make you feel responsible for "the starving children argument".

I want to clear up what I said about starving children. I was replying to iLander's suggestion that after a family had a certain number of children that their food stamp allowance no longer be increased for additional children born. I said that it was madness to penalize additional children born into large families and asked why the children should starve to death.

I was asking why-IF iLander's hypothetical plan were to be put into effect-the hypothetical children should starve to death.

I think you are a bit too concrete.

AGBF

 

[AGBF]

Hi,

Well, just let me say that , I, am not reponsible for starving children in America, or my own county or anywhere else in the world and, that you would dare make such an argument on here leaves me spechless.

To use every other type of societal benefit, many of which improves life for everyone as a way to discredit any discussion that many have on abuses in the foodstamp program also adds nothing to the discu.ssion.

Yes, one of the worst abuses does sit with the hedgefunds who pay such low taxes its ridiculous. Legislation is required by someone.

Lobbying is a natural way of getting Gov't attention. I accept some things, as I cant fight everything.

Cutting benefits during the Clinton years did stop pregnant 16 yr olds from getting their own free apartments and have the boyfriends move-in and make more babies.And it worked.

I don't think liberals should be listened to anymore, as well as those on the right. Neither have perspective anymore.


Please, don't let anyone make you feel responsible for "the starving children argument". Thats one bimbo.



Annette

I am looking at this again and I'll be darned if I know what you are saying. Just whom are you addressing with this posting, Annette? You write, "that you would dare make such an argument on here leaves me speechless". I believe I am the only one who mentioned starving children. I have now explained that the children were hypothetical. But was that entire posting aimed at me? I can scarcely discern what your main point is. And your generalizations are so sweeping as to be absurd. "I accept some things, as I can't fight everything". Can you elucidate a bit? "I don't think liberals should be listened to anymore, as well as those on the right. Neither have perspective anymore". You wouldn't care to be a bit more specific?

"Cutting benefits during the Clinton years did stop pregnant 16 yr olds from getting their own free apartments and have the boyfriends move-in and make more babies. And it worked." Know any 16 year olds who had their own apartments while on AFDC*? I gave out AFDC and I didn't know a single one! You got $444.00 for a family of FOUR. No 16 year-old could get an apartment with that! When you say "it worked", what do you mean by, "it working"? What result for society would be evidence that cutting AFDC "worked"? Citation please.

And what, exactly, do you mean when you say that a "starving children argument" is, "one bimbo"?

Can you clarify? Or at least translate what you wrote into English?

AGBF


*AFDC stands for Aid to Families with Dependent Children

 

[Dancing Fire]

It is easy to point fingers at the riches 1% for not paying enough taxes, but they themselves (the welfare careered) have yet to contributed a single dime into the tax system. All take and no give.

 

[packrat]

It. will. never. change. period. end of story.

There will always be ones that work the system, on both ends, high and low, b/c they know how, and b/c they can and b/c they're allowed to. The shitty thing about it is the kids are the ones, on the low end, who suffer.

That makes me sad and it also makes me angry that we ALLOW it. We do. By allowing people to go out and willy nilly have 47 babies if they so choose, we are allowing those kids to grow up pissing into the wind. B/c we can't tell anyone no. It's bad. No is not a word that Americans can handle in any way shape or form. It's our right to pretty much do as we see fit no matter what, and nobody is gonna tell us otherwise b/c nobody can step on our rights. Even if it's for our own good, uh uh nooo way sir.

We can wring our hands and gnash our teeth all we want about all the kids who grow up w/parents who don't give two plug nickels for them, that are abused/neglected etc but as far as I'm concerned it's our fault.

So honestly..we may as well shut up about it. Let people go out and do what they want and just continue to pay for it. Eventually the system will break down completely and we'll just only have ourselves to blame.

 

[msop04]

It. will. never. change. period. end of story.

There will always be ones that work the system, on both ends, high and low, b/c they know how, and b/c they can and b/c they're allowed to. The shitty thing about it is the kids are the ones, on the low end, who suffer.

That makes me sad and it also makes me angry that we ALLOW it. We do. By allowing people to go out and willy nilly have 47 babies if they so choose, we are allowing those kids to grow up pissing into the wind. B/c we can't tell anyone no. It's bad. No is not a word that Americans can handle in any way shape or form. It's our right to pretty much do as we see fit no matter what, and nobody is gonna tell us otherwise b/c nobody can step on our rights. Even if it's for our own good, uh uh nooo way sir.

We can wring our hands and gnash our teeth all we want about all the kids who grow up w/parents who don't give two plug nickels for them, that are abused/neglected etc but as far as I'm concerned it's our fault.

So honestly..we may as well shut up about it. Let people go out and do what they want and just continue to pay for it. Eventually the system will break down completely and we'll just only have ourselves to blame.

Sadly, this is the truth... we have done this to ourselves. Our "rights" will truly be the death of this country.

 

[Kelinas]

It is easy to point fingers at the riches 1% for not paying enough taxes, but they themselves (the welfare careered) have yet to contributed a single dime into the tax system. All take and no give.

Agreed

 

[msop04]

I am one of those posters and am only speaking for myself. What someone else does is their business as long as they are taking care of business. It is not who the father is or how many children you have but the fact that you cannot take care of them. And it is not moral superiority but common sense. By the government finally putting their foot down might not help those already born ( for which there are many programs already in place) but might stop others from abusing the system.

I could not access the links on the other page but as far as the low figure of those who are abusing SNAP, I would assume it is for the number of those who are actually caught. From what I have read and have been told by family who deal with it on a daily basis, it is not exactly a high priority crime considering what else our city and state governments have to deal with. But from what I have read and seen in our State, it is a lot bigger than the figure quoted.

How many of these moms would continue to have children if they knew the government wouldn't continue to pay for them? Maybe not all of them, but a lot of them just might try to practice a little common sense like any other adult person... because those who are not extremely wealthy have to be financially responsible, and most times the family budget just cannot accommodate 5 children. Many just don't care. They have no plans to get off of welfare, nor do they see any need to get a job or even try. They know that the more kids they have, the more money is coming in. It may not be a lot by most standards, but when you're not really using that for you children anyway, it really doesn't matter to those with that type mentality.

We have disability for those who cannot work. We have unemployment for those who are in between jobs. Why do we allow welfare as a lifetime option?

 

[movie zombie]

Fly by post here.

I come from a family and only have half siblings. I have 3 sisters from my mother and one brother from my father. My father is on SSI for mental/physical issues and my mom has been off meds/assistance for many years now-but not until her early 50's.

I was brought up on what seems to be the family that is frowned upon-the people having babies and abusing the system. In fact the whole town I grew up in for many years is apart of that system.

Many people are unable to get better work. They don't marry bc the shift work (in a factory called ADM-used to be nick named another man dead-you can tell how much they are) that produces people who are alcoholics because the job SUCKS. But it's one of the few 'good paying' jobs in the area but they STILL can't afford to feed their families bc it's still not enough. They usually have kids by a few different women-most men are paying child support-and most mothers are broken and the men aren't real men.

They have all been raised in this cycle and most hate it but are unable to pull themselves out due to lack of jobs-good education-and many other things.

I am grateful for breaking the cycle but I am one of few. I do not judge my family and am grateful for the system even though its broken and many abuse it.

The rich (1%) anger me FAR more than those who use/abuse the system since the 1% are educated enough to know how to take advantage of the loop holes and abuse the 99% into doing their back and soul breaking labour-often at the expensive of peoples mental and emotional health. Not being able to provide for your family cuts deep-the judgement is harsh from 'those who have' as if they don't want-and didn't aspire-to be more-to be better. Most by the time they mature enough to realize the sins of their fathers have left them so scared and the choices they made while unable to fully understand that there were other choices to be had (even if they had the chance) have left them pretty much unable to do much about it.

I'm glad to see the compassion but to see people wanting to 'limit' and to 'control' even more because they have 'to many kids' or 'to many different partners' or are selling them for drugs (to escape their lives which are pretty hard and crappy I might add) really saddens me. Most probably do not know what it feels like to grow up and not know anything different. To have come from that-and to see it in my family who really do love-and really do try-and really do long and work hard for more-but is impossible for a number of different reasons-are clueless. Yes that's right-I said clueless.

I am now more mature than most people in the town I went too. Not only mentally-emotionally and spiritually but I can see what went wrong-how it continues to be wrong-but I understand why they are the way that they are and how hard it is to break free even when given the choice. Most of us don't feel any value and are only surviving the only way we know how. The difference between survival and thriving and living is something totally different. Many of them because parents too soon and never had a chance.

I have so much more I could say but I need to go. I doubt I explained myself very well anyways since it's quite an emotional topic for me. But I'm grateful that our hard earned money goes towards those who may or may not need it. Cuz I know for a fact the interest rate the banks make off of our mortgage and CC's far exceed anything they really need. When you can make more in one minute off of one investment than all of the tax payers pay out to assistants or bail out companies and still get your big bonuses then you should be ashamed of yourself. There is a difference between wealthy and controlling the wealth of the world. Of which the latter falls into the hands of a very select few-so much so they can determine the wealth of the remainder quite effectively.

just wanted you to know that I relate to your post. I will always be "working class poor" in my own mind.

 

[makemepretty]

Fly by post here.

I come from a family and only have half siblings. I have 3 sisters from my mother and one brother from my father. My father is on SSI for mental/physical issues and my mom has been off meds/assistance for many years now-but not until her early 50's.

I was brought up on what seems to be the family that is frowned upon-the people having babies and abusing the system. In fact the whole town I grew up in for many years is apart of that system.

Many people are unable to get better work. They don't marry bc the shift work (in a factory called ADM-used to be nick named another man dead-you can tell how much they are) that produces people who are alcoholics because the job SUCKS. But it's one of the few 'good paying' jobs in the area but they STILL can't afford to feed their families bc it's still not enough. They usually have kids by a few different women-most men are paying child support-and most mothers are broken and the men aren't real men.

They have all been raised in this cycle and most hate it but are unable to pull themselves out due to lack of jobs-good education-and many other things.

I am grateful for breaking the cycle but I am one of few. I do not judge my family and am grateful for the system even though its broken and many abuse it.

The rich (1%) anger me FAR more than those who use/abuse the system since the 1% are educated enough to know how to take advantage of the loop holes and abuse the 99% into doing their back and soul breaking labour-often at the expensive of peoples mental and emotional health. Not being able to provide for your family cuts deep-the judgement is harsh from 'those who have' as if they don't want-and didn't aspire-to be more-to be better. Most by the time they mature enough to realize the sins of their fathers have left them so scared and the choices they made while unable to fully understand that there were other choices to be had (even if they had the chance) have left them pretty much unable to do much about it.

I'm glad to see the compassion but to see people wanting to 'limit' and to 'control' even more because they have 'to many kids' or 'to many different partners' or are selling them for drugs (to escape their lives which are pretty hard and crappy I might add) really saddens me. Most probably do not know what it feels like to grow up and not know anything different. To have come from that-and to see it in my family who really do love-and really do try-and really do long and work hard for more-but is impossible for a number of different reasons-are clueless. Yes that's right-I said clueless.

I am now more mature than most people in the town I went too. Not only mentally-emotionally and spiritually but I can see what went wrong-how it continues to be wrong-but I understand why they are the way that they are and how hard it is to break free even when given the choice. Most of us don't feel any value and are only surviving the only way we know how. The difference between survival and thriving and living is something totally different. Many of them because parents too soon and never had a chance.

I have so much more I could say but I need to go. I doubt I explained myself very well anyways since it's quite an emotional topic for me. But I'm grateful that our hard earned money goes towards those who may or may not need it. Cuz I know for a fact the interest rate the banks make off of our mortgage and CC's far exceed anything they really need. When you can make more in one minute off of one investment than all of the tax payers pay out to assistants or bail out companies and still get your big bonuses then you should be ashamed of yourself. There is a difference between wealthy and controlling the wealth of the world. Of which the latter falls into the hands of a very select few-so much so they can determine the wealth of the remainder quite effectively.

Love this post. It has boggled my mind that people on a diamond board are trying to think of ways to limit the food that goes to extremely poor families. Or even what type of food they purchase or how to stop them from reproducing. Seriously?

A person who has to buy his daughter a diamond bracelet because his other daughter got one (stomps feet) could never empathize.

The person who said it's not their responsibility if a child is starving is wrong. It is everyone's responsibility. It's called compassion and being a decent human being. I've fed kids that are hungry, given them a safe place to stay, I've taught some to read better....it's not just helping that child, you are essentially helping future generations. None of us are going without in order to help others, that's the big picture.

 

[movie zombie]

....It has boggled my mind that people on a diamond board are trying to think of ways to limit the food that goes to extremely poor families. Or even what type of food they purchase or how to stop them from reproducing. Seriously?

A person who has to buy his daughter a diamond bracelet because his other daughter got one (stomps feet) could never empathize.

The person who said it's not their responsibility if a child is starving is wrong. It is everyone's responsibility. It's called compassion and being a decent human being. I've fed kids that are hungry, given them a safe place to stay, I've taught some to read better....it's not just helping that child, you are essentially helping future generations. None of us are going without in order to help others, that's the big picture.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="makemepretty|


A person who has to buy his daughter a diamond bracelet because his other daughter got one (stomps feet) could never empathize.

The person who said it's not their responsibility if a child is starving is wrong. It is everyone's responsibility. It's called compassion and being a decent human being. I've fed kids that are hungry, given them a safe place to stay, I've taught some to read better....it's not just helping that child, you are essentially helping future generations. None of us are going without in order to help others, that's the big picture.[/quote]


You have memory like an elephant, don't ya?...
I feel sorry for their kids not the "irresponsible parents".

 

[nkarma]

I do not get how some posters on here think it's a simple as be smart, use birth control. If that is really the cause you so desire there are many great organizations out there that help with getting sexual education and health care access to women. Some of them are the ones that are being demonized over and over again in the media. But if you think this is the solution, please volunteer and donate to these organizations, you will do A LOT to help!

All of the mostly middle class educated people on here, think it's as simple as just be smart & use birth control. There are very few people that can be smart (reasoning & critical thinking) without education. Maslow's hieracy of needs state that people cannot develop without having their physical & emotional needs met as well as being secure & safety. People in generational poverty grow up without all of these on a daily basis. There is study after study in this country and worldwide that the poor & less educated (those go hand in hand) have more kids and at a younger age. Let's do something about this instead of telling someone who has never lived near water to go catch a fish. Just because you know how to catch a fish, does not mean someone else does or even can get the resources to catch one.

 

[ksinger]

I do not get how some posters on here think it's a simple as be smart, use birth control. If that is really the cause you so desire there are many great organizations out there that help with getting sexual education and health care access to women. Some of them are the ones that are being demonized over and over again in the media. But if you think this is the solution, please volunteer and donate to these organizations, you will do A LOT to help!

All of the mostly middle class educated people on here, think it's as simple as just be smart & use birth control. There are very few people that can be smart (reasoning & critical thinking) without education. Maslow's hieracy of needs state that people cannot develop without having their physical & emotional needs met as well as being secure & safety. People in generational poverty grow up without all of these on a daily basis. There is study after study in this country and worldwide that the poor & less educated (those go hand in hand) have more kids and at a younger age. Let's do something about this instead of telling someone who has never lived near water to go catch a fish. Just because you know how to catch a fish, does not mean someone else does or even can get the resources to catch one.

And to which I would add, generational poverty will not be solved simply by delaying having children. That too, is too simplistic a fix. Just because a kid doesn't have a kid of his/her own at 15 or 16, doesn't mean that he/she will automatically escape poverty. My husband, who is terrible at saving sites and/or documents (dang him to the nethermost heck), read an interesting economic analysis a few years ago that even came to the conclusion that early parenthood did NOT actually negatively impact the chances of escaping poverty from those in deep intergenerational poverty, and in fact, had some benefits - one of which was, since they were effectively children when they had children, they were still at home with their own parent/s, and thus had more of a support network. I don't know that I agree, and as I said, I can't read it myself, but it was pretty interesting.

And for vintagelover229, I've discussed this thread with my husband, and he is interested on what level of "luck" you feel you had in escaping your beginnings. Understanding you may not wish to discuss, of course. But he was curious, since as I said, he teaches the kids you used to be. Nothing gives him more happiness than meeting one of his former students (and seeing them happens often around here) who has truly made it out, and he wonders lots about what thing or combination of things did the trick. He knows too, how often his kids who DO start to college, fail at it due to lack of a support structure or proper funding and just the pressure of it. These kids have SO many strikes against them that middle or upper-middle-class kids just do not. It's sad.

 

[vintagelover229]

Ksinger:
I’m happy to expand on things a bit although I must admit my survival ‘mode’ is probably the most shameful part of my past for me. I experienced from a very young age (and I will be the first to admit that I had it MUCH better than many people out there) quite a few things that really impressed things on me that are quite unhealthy and false. A few examples being-my dad is/was an addict-was in prison for attempted murder just when I was 2. My mom and dad were married and I was the only child which was planned (I do believe that has had a very strong impact on me vs my siblings all were out of wedlock and unplanned and I was born out of love-admit dysfunctional love-but love never the less).

My mom was always in a relationship (by that I mean living with some guy-always addicts in some way shape or form-mom would leave me with sitters for days on end-not sure when she’d come back/violence/etc). My grandma had me at one point for a year-my godparents another (from 5-6 in which my god-brother molested me which is how I ended up back with my bio mom).

My mom and her bf lost us kids when I was around the age of 10. At that point myself and my 2 younger half siblings went into foster care (there was some back and forth) and I ended up agreeing to the adoption at the age of 12. I knew (even though I wasn’t doing well with the family-I was by nothing short of God’s grace-placed with my 2 younger sisters) that it was a good place for them to be and I wasn’t going to rock that boat. I raised my younger sisters for the most part and although I thought all was already lost on me-I had hope for my 4 yr old (roughly) and 2 yr old sisters.

We were adopted by a very functional family. Very religious (which works for them-I am personally a follower of Christ but it has little to do with the example they set-they are very loving people but very concerned about reputations/others perceptions/etc) and coming into that from having free reign and being my own person-to having little to zero say-and getting the vibe that something was wrong with me. I will say that there are STRONG personality clashes which stand to this day-but due to my maturity and loving myself unconditionally and doing (in their eyes) better and being a functional member of society they are able to (I won’t go as far as to say accept) but tolerate and even at times-enjoy my uniqueness.

Because of my ‘different’ and aggressive/strong personality-coupled with the abuse/neglect from my childhood-I had a lot of issues. I was required to take medication (don’t get me started on that-I have a lot of strong feelings/thoughts on how those didn’t help and probably caused a lot of the issues they were supposed to help) and go to therapy. Not ONE person told me during this time that it was normal to have the coping mechanisms that I had been using up until that point to survive considering what I had come from. I just was told I was depressed-defiant- had anger problems-the list goes on and on.

Anyways I went to a place called Eagle Village (the adoption part) which many kids were court ordered to go to. While there I was loved and accepted and pretty much taken off all my meds. I was taught healthy coping skills over the 1.5 years that I was there. I should mention at this time most court ordered kids (had they behaved like I did) could be out in less than 6 months but my adopted parents weren’t having any of that. At one point they (Eagle village) threatened to place me in foster care (around 16) because there was no reason for me to be there any longer-forcing my parents to take me back home. I was at a really good place in my life-until I had been home for around 6 months.

At that point in my life I understood it wasn’t just me-that I just wasn’t a good fit in the family and was working on finding a friend to live with-finish my HS-go to college/etc. However my folks thought I was going to run away to NYC (bc I was chatting with someone online) and get sucked into being a hooker-so they dropped me off the summer before my Jr. year with my bio dad. That didn’t go very well but that’s neither here nor there.

Despite my best efforts to graduate HS and work full time-I just couldn’t do it. My GPA went from a 3.8 to idk because I dropped out before the tri-mester ended. I got my GED right away-but was sad because I was a very talented violin player and no longer had any outlet to play. I was trying hard to be successful on my own but none of my best efforts got me anywhere. No amount of working-saving-anything-was getting me anywhere. So I didn’t the one thing my mom did best-I found a guy with a good job (used my looks and my brains) and got out of that town as quickly as possible.

Now this guy was a good guy but we weren’t compatible at all. 10.5 yr age gap didn’t help but I wasn’t in a healthy place in my life-didn’t know who I was-but that relationship lasted long enough for me to move to Texas-get my AAS degree and do a little something with my life. But when it ended (in divorce) I went downhill faster than a rock thrown off a boat. Drinking-sleeping around-skipping work-you name it. I hated myself and my life. I became what I hated most in women-thinking that would make me happy since when I had worked my butt off trying to make a relationship work-do school/etc that didn’t get me anywhere either.

I met my husband in the middle of this whole mess. A functional man that saw though the mess I was to the person that I could be-if given the right environment. I don’t think he knew what he was getting into though-severe panic attacks-depression-re-programming my thoughts/emotions/etc.

I got down on my knees (after realizing it wasn’t Gods fault that so many people perverted His teachings/etc) and asked for His help. And boy did I get that prayer answered. Within a year of doing that I was able to function on a more mature and healthy manner than most people do with years of therapy. Because my then bf was in Canada I was unable to work so my days were spent processing/thinking/re-programming myself out of those unhealthy thinking/emotional/mental responses. It was a lot of trial and error and even more frustrating because my husband had no clue what to do let alone how to help-and at times he didn’t even get *how* I could be that crazy and respond in that way. He’s an engineer and very cut and dry about things so he just did his best to support me and not respond in a way that would escalate the situation to even greater proportions.

At this point in my life I am a stay at home mom and I do before/after school care. I have plans to help at a local youth shelter in town for people aged 15-26 as well as a womens shelter. I know the road they’ve walked-I understand how difficult it is to change your mind set-to go against your very natural survival walls/things that you’ve set in place (a lot of selfishness-subtle manipulation-etc) which is bred into you. I understand the cause/affect of rejection from parents/peers/other sources/etc and how it can even change the very way we think/process things.

These things are very difficult to explain in the written word. This has gotten very long but I hope that a very small part of my story can shed some understanding on some of this. I can tell you I always longed for something more and went to ungodly lengths to make things happen in my life. Including facing the honest horrors of the reasons that I made decisions (even if I didn’t know them at the time or understand them) and all the flaws that had/have to be changed if I wanted to life a functional and healthy life-many people are unable to self reflect and such a deep and honest level because what they see is to deep and real and ugly. They don’t know how to change it and many people wouldn’t if they could. Even if it isn’t your fault (I should mention I harbor no ill feelings towards either sets of my parents-they all did the best they could with the tools in their tool boxes but I do set up appropriate boundaries for all parties in my life.)

I still have a ton of personal growth to do-many bad habits and personality traits that stem from many things that shaped who I am today but slowly and surely until the day I die will I work on myself to be the best person that I can be. I want to be selfless-loving-humble-honest-hard working-loyal-have patience-a gentle spirit-the list goes on and on.

I realize this has gotten quite off topic at this point in time and I highly doubt very many people will read this-no matter. If it can help just *one* person who stumbles upon this point in the future than it wasn’t in vain-my bio family to this day are all supported (minus my mother but she has a whole slew of issues) in some way shape and form by tax payer dollars and probably always will be as long as it’s around. For myself and my husband-we pay a ton of taxes being in Canada and work hard for every little thing we have. I buy pretty much everything pre-loved (I love the thrill of the hunt) and will slowly get our house done over the course of our life time. We’ll pay the tax man whatever he says we should because the things on this earth are only temporary and we have to work anyways. I’m much more concerned about the Liberal party stopping a gas plant to the tune of over a billion dollars but the records disappearing just before they got a huge political win (buying the election) than even those who abuse the system.

 

[movie zombie]

great post, vintage.
it is never easy nor is it simple.
the idea of just saying "no".
the idea of "well, just go get a job".
all those simple things/solutions that those saying them have no idea of how difficult it really is.

 

[chrono]

Vintage,
Thank you for sharing so much of yourself in a public forum. You've been through so much, yet stayed strong throughout. I admire your tenacity and reading your experience opened my eyes to another world I've never seen. I've seen poverty but have not seen where drug addition, neglect and other factors come into play.

 

[vintagelover229]

I'm glad its helped some. I should add that I never would have been able to make the changes necessary to personal growth-becoming stable had I not had the uncondtional love and support of my husband-the desire to change and admit that there were some very very serious things wrong with me-and the peace and quite enviornment along witht the support (not always understanding) of my husband. These circumstances made for a very unique and much needed stable enviornement where I could take a critical look at myself-apply a lot of the lessons/tools that I had been taught at Eagle Village-in a very unthreatening manner.

Most people have to work-have drug/drinking problems (neither of which I had although I came pretty close at one point on the drinking front in my early 20's) kids/crappy work enviornment/etc. Being seperated from both my families as well as all the bad decisions I made by a country-and having zero friends/responsibilities up here really was a HUGE part of why I was able to do what I did. I'd go as far as saying unless you have unconditonal love (even if you don't love yourself-you have to be able to accept it without understading why) was the only way this was possible. Most people aren't as blessed as I am to have all the cards fall into place like I had/have. For that I am always grateful!

 

[AGBF]

I read your postings in their entirety with gratitude, vintagelover. I am sure that many other people will do the same.

Deb/AGBF

 

[ksinger]

I'm a bit late, (work intrudes, har)

Thank you vintagelover229, I really appreciate the response. It's great that this thread has had some real people weigh in to put a human face on the abstraction the we generally turn "the poor" into when we wish to lump them.

It is pretty much as I expected - you got some lucky breaks that you were motivated and able to jump for, and did. You also did the hard interior work required to overcome the old tapes. And you display the clear yet compassionate eyes I always hope to see in one who knows what it's like to be there. I'm a firm believer that most people are doing the best they can in the situation they find themselves in. Most of the time, if they could do better they would. Very few people actually want to live without pride or self-worth. You're not the first person I've met who benefited immensely by the breathing room afforded by physical and mental distance from a toxic environment.