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Heartbroken and confused, some insight please

rosetta

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Well since this thread is still here, I took the time to go read some of alley's old topics. I hadn't before, my bad.

Oh dear. I take back my previous advice. This is one of the unhealthiest, drama-ridden relationships I've ever heard of. I can see where some of you are coming from now. What a saga. Alley, my advice is now to definitely end your relationship, I'm not even going to pretend to sugarcoat this. I cannot believe an intelligent woman such as yourself can't see that you need to get out of this mess! Your husband may not be a bad guy, but he is terrible for you. And he seems to have mentally checked out of your relationship already. That email thing was a huge red flag (in your shoes, I would have filed for divorce then and there if I'm honest). Your husband wants kids, no amount of luxuries will make up for this lack. I'm a woman with no biological clock and even I realise that you can't ever ever get rid of the ache to have kids, no matter how to try to rationalise it.

You know this is a car crash in slow motion. YOU KNOW THIS. For gods sake, bail out now.

Right, flame me anyone who wants I'm standing by what I've written.
 

Tekate

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Mayk! what great advice.. I was dumped at 32.. and I was lucky to find the right man and remarry... it's such a difficult thing to do. what our parents, siblings, coworkers, OURSELVES think and the feeling of failure. .TILL we are set free and start the healing.. I always say I started my life at 32..

:wavey:


Mayk|1390144620|3596119 said:
Alley you've gotten a lot of advice but the one thing I would echo is counseling... as some one who when through a divorce at 42 years old I was in a marriage that had drained the life out of me (both my interest in fun things and a financial drain (his business was a hobby my career supported us)) the counseling helped me "right myself", heal and learn to move on. I found the most perfect man and my life couldn't possibly be any happier. My Ex remarried and truly I think he found someone who understood him better than I did. In the long run it was a painful experience, re-entering the dating world at 42 was scary but as I look back now almost 9 years later I'm so glad I made the decision to take my life in a different direction. Getting control and understanding what you need/want is the first step of empowering yourself.
 

AGBF

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rosetta|1390235747|3596945 said:
Right, flame me anyone who wants....

I could swear that you posted that you didn't want anyone to hurt you!
Don't ask for trouble, rosetta. ;))

Deb
 

TC1987

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LaraOnline|1389837039|3593703 said:
How does a married person not assume the debt of their marriage partner? In your case, you had to take the whole thing to court.

Perhaps there are cultural differences here but in my world I am responsible for my husband's debts unless like you I go to great efforts and expense to prove otherwise.
And if I am also sacrificing in terms of debt risk, reduced life style, increased home responsibilities and greatly reduced or non existent leisure time, all so I can further my partner's career than yes, I *do* see myself as 'worthy' of some of the spoils of those choices, further down the track, if those spoils appear. I may not get the glory, I may not be the 'driving career force' In The marriage but I have supported that career development in every meal, every lonely day and night and every loving word and expect to improve my circumstances through my work and risk and life choices, as we all do.
To be asked to make the personal sacrifice for the sake of another's career, only to be hauled in for a post nup just as light is dimly appearing at the end of the tunnel would have been hard emotional nut to swallow, surely.

Marriage is about a genuine sharing of a life together, especially if it happens earlier in life when hard work and sacrifice is required. For my man and I, we're not house mates, breaking down every bill and chore into his and hers. Perhaps kids has something to do with that. But as a wife I am certainly responsible for any bills my man rings up. Whether that relates to humongous study debts incurred in another country, I'm not totally sure. But we paid ours off, together. Out of our 'joint estate'.

Each of us has a history. Yours is different to mine. Really it's up to alley to decide in what light she views her husband. I know my man can go from hero to villain and back again depending on the day. But the default settlement over here is that debt incurred by one partner is generally payable by either and in any case it all comes from the same pot assuming you have assets to cover.


Well, I guess I didn't genuinely share, because I didn't marry until age 36, and you know, by that age, what I had accomplished on my own is MINE. Starting very young from scratch is much different. People are young, optimistic, have nothing to lose.

1. Actually, all the court had to do was rubber-stamp it. Less than 10 years of marriage does not qualify for alimony. I was smart enough to require a prenup going into the marriage, because I was the one with cash in the bank, and also the one earning the larger income at the time we married. WHILE we were dating, and until shortly after we became engaged, the circumstances were we had similar incomes but he had more debt, in the the form of car loan and college loans, both of which I considered preexisting conditions. I owed only about $3000 on my car, and would easily pay that off in less than 1 year. But within 2 months of our getting engaged, he told me his job "wasn't working out." And then he mysteriously was released from his contract, WITHOUT the severance payment that was due him under any condition. I let him move in with me, and thus the crap began. He was jobless, he was underemployed, he got a $16k job with state government, etc. etc. It was never the deal I agreed to when we dated and became engaged. But, I stuck it out and I sacrificed, and I paid for most household expenses, cut him enormous slack so he could pay down his car, pay off his college loans from 15 years earlier, etc. So, perhaps that helps you see my point about sticking him with HIS debts, because I had done 9 years of funding that marriage, believing he was paying off debt, but he's only rung up close to $40k on his credit cards!

2. How specifically, did I roll out from under that? First, I had always kept separate accounts. My paychecks went to my account, and then I transferred money to the joint account, and all household bills were paid from there. I never wrote a check from my accounts for anything house payment, home repair, utility bills, etc. And financial gifts given to me, I kept separate and I decided whether or not to dole them out the the marriage. (And I did dole out a lot for beautifying that old house, because it was either do that, or have freakin' nothing that didn't come from a thrift store. :lol: ) Second, I kept my own credit cards in my name only. I kept my cars in my name only. His were his, also. Aside from that joint account for household, there was no co-mingling. True, all assets and income acquired in marriage are joint assets. BUT, his debts, in this case, were his truck, his tools, his guns, his stuff, etc. And I told him that if he wanted to keep it all, then he also takes all the debt with him. Otherwise, if we are splitting all of the debts and assets in half, then half of that STUFF is mine, mine, mine, because I will assume no debts for things that I do not own.

Most of the furniture was bought by each of us before marriage, so each just took back what we had brought in. Inherited property goes to the person who inherited it.

I'm not a traditional wife and mother type. In fact, I have no use whatsoever for family life and child-rearing and an thrilled to be rid of all of it. I am through with that lifestyle 100%, but I don't mind if other people love it. If I ever marry again, it will have to be pretty much a childfree marriage except for birthdays, weddings, funerals, reunions, and fun special occasions. Because Lord knows, I will not be lifting a finger do to any family's slopwork for them unless I am paid. Children go down the road with their mama. :lol:

And if I am also sacrificing in terms of debt risk, reduced life style, increased home responsibilities and greatly reduced or non existent leisure time, all so I can further my partner's career than yes, I *do* see myself as 'worthy' of some of the spoils of those choices, further down the track, if those spoils appear.
As I said before, just how much sacrifice is Alley's husband making specifically for her career, as opposed to if he had homemaker non-working wife? Is he forced to work at a pittance of his market rate? Does he perform all of the toilet-scrubbing, cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping, family gift-buying, letter-writing, household organizing that a traditional homemaker wife would do? There are no children, so he sure as Hades isn't tying up huge parts of his time off the job raising their children. A man can father children at even very advanced age, so I fail to see where there's much of a case there, either. He knew going into the marriage what her career path and education regimen would be.
 

rosetta

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AGBF|1390238329|3596986 said:
rosetta|1390235747|3596945 said:
Right, flame me anyone who wants....

I could swear that you posted that you didn't want anyone to hurt you!
Don't ask for trouble, rosetta. ;))

Deb

You're right Deb. That was all bravado.

Don't flame me guys, but feel free to disagree. :))
 

movie zombie

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Messages
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rosetta|1390235747|3596945 said:
Well since this thread is still here, I took the time to go read some of alley's old topics. I hadn't before, my bad.

Oh dear. I take back my previous advice. This is one of the unhealthiest, drama-ridden relationships I've ever heard of. I can see where some of you are coming from now. What a saga. Alley, my advice is now to definitely end your relationship, I'm not even going to pretend to sugarcoat this. I cannot believe an intelligent woman such as yourself can't see that you need to get out of this mess! Your husband may not be a bad guy, but he is terrible for you. And he seems to have mentally checked out of your relationship already. That email thing was a huge red flag (in your shoes, I would have filed for divorce then and there if I'm honest). Your husband wants kids, no amount of luxuries will make up for this lack. I'm a woman with no biological clock and even I realise that you can't ever ever get rid of the ache to have kids, no matter how to try to rationalise it.

You know this is a car crash in slow motion. YOU KNOW THIS. For gods sake, bail out now.

Right, flame me anyone who wants I'm standing by what I've written.


rosetta, this post right here tells me a lot about you.
not many would do as you did and go back to visit the OP's old topics.
not many would then come and say "my bad" for not having done it before.
and even fewer would go so far as to say they had changed their mind......and I mean you really did change your mind!
my only disagreement is that it is not a car crash in slow motion but a train wreck in motion over a very very very long time........
oh, and you're very last sentence? :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl:


at the end of the day only Alley can decide what is right for her and even if she is using the forum here as merely a place to vent, well, I see no problem with that.

I wish her luck with all of it.
 

AGBF

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Premium
Joined
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Messages
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movie zombie|1390240101|3597010 said:
rosetta|1390235747|3596945 said:
Well since this thread is still here, I took the time to go read some of alley's old topics. I hadn't before, my bad.

Oh dear. I take back my previous advice. This is one of the unhealthiest, drama-ridden relationships I've ever heard of. I can see where some of you are coming from now. What a saga. Alley, my advice is now to definitely end your relationship, I'm not even going to pretend to sugarcoat this. I cannot believe an intelligent woman such as yourself can't see that you need to get out of this mess! Your husband may not be a bad guy, but he is terrible for you. And he seems to have mentally checked out of your relationship already. That email thing was a huge red flag (in your shoes, I would have filed for divorce then and there if I'm honest). Your husband wants kids, no amount of luxuries will make up for this lack. I'm a woman with no biological clock and even I realise that you can't ever ever get rid of the ache to have kids, no matter how to try to rationalise it.

You know this is a car crash in slow motion. YOU KNOW THIS. For gods sake, bail out now.

Right, flame me anyone who wants I'm standing by what I've written.


rosetta, this post right here tells me a lot about you.
not many would do as you did and go back to visit the OP's old topics.
not many would then come and say "my bad" for not having done it before.
and even fewer would go so far as to say they had changed their mind......and I mean you really did change your mind!
my only disagreement is that it is not a car crash in slow motion but a train wreck in motion over a very very very long time........
oh, and you're very last sentence? :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl:


I have "known" Alley as long as anyone here and I wish her the best. I am not going to add my views to the many in this thread. She has been offered a lot of excellent advice already. I just want her (I want you, Alley) to know that I care how you feel and want you to be happy. I remember when you were afraid that you couldn't learn French!!!

But I do want to add to MZ's kudos of rosetta. Although rosetta and I usually agree, there have been times when we did not. I do not know anyone on Pricescope whom I admire more than I admire her, though. Her intellect; energy; drive; and thoughtful nature make her an ideal friend and poster.

Deb/AGBF
 

rosetta

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
3,417
AGBF|1390247984|3597109 said:
movie zombie|1390240101|3597010 said:
rosetta|1390235747|3596945 said:
Well since this thread is still here, I took the time to go read some of alley's old topics. I hadn't before, my bad.

Oh dear. I take back my previous advice. This is one of the unhealthiest, drama-ridden relationships I've ever heard of. I can see where some of you are coming from now. What a saga. Alley, my advice is now to definitely end your relationship, I'm not even going to pretend to sugarcoat this. I cannot believe an intelligent woman such as yourself can't see that you need to get out of this mess! Your husband may not be a bad guy, but he is terrible for you. And he seems to have mentally checked out of your relationship already. That email thing was a huge red flag (in your shoes, I would have filed for divorce then and there if I'm honest). Your husband wants kids, no amount of luxuries will make up for this lack. I'm a woman with no biological clock and even I realise that you can't ever ever get rid of the ache to have kids, no matter how to try to rationalise it.

You know this is a car crash in slow motion. YOU KNOW THIS. For gods sake, bail out now.

Right, flame me anyone who wants I'm standing by what I've written.


rosetta, this post right here tells me a lot about you.
not many would do as you did and go back to visit the OP's old topics.
not many would then come and say "my bad" for not having done it before.
and even fewer would go so far as to say they had changed their mind......and I mean you really did change your mind!
my only disagreement is that it is not a car crash in slow motion but a train wreck in motion over a very very very long time........
oh, and you're very last sentence? :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl:


I have "known" Alley as long as anyone here and I wish her the best. I am not going to add my views to the many in this thread. She has been offered a lot of excellent advice already. I just want her (I want you, Alley) to know that I care how you feel and want you to be happy. I remember when you were afraid that you couldn't learn French!!!

But I do want to add to MZ's kudos of rosetta. Although rosetta and I usually agree, there have been times when we did not. I do not know anyone on Pricescope whom I admire more than I admire her, though. Her intellect; energy; drive; and thoughtful nature make her an ideal friend and poster.

Deb/AGBF

Oh my goodness, I'm blushing Deb! I am truly humbled by your words. You and MZ are among my favourite people here, whether we agree or not is immaterial: you have my respect always.

Alley, obviously I was not here when this saga began. I wish you the very best and I truly hope that you take on board everything that has been said here, which has come from a place of love, albeit love from strangers on the internet. You deserve a calm, peaceful life with someone you has the same outlook on life as you.
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,170
Alley, I've pondered for a few days the things you say your hub has said recently to you and to friends. This is purely speculative on my part, but here's what I get when I read his remarks.

I think he does want to be in a marriage, but he's recognized from your actions (lack of respect, prenup request, evasive about shared future) that you may be emotionally leaving this relationship already. It would seem he doesn't want to be left holding the bag with nothing if you leave, so he's trying to figure out (by his questions about your love for him and future plans with him) if he should gamble on you staying in the marriage or if he should cut his losses now to have a chance at marriage/children with someone else.

Part of knowing if you'll stay in the marriage is knowing if you'll do so without kids because you've now been talking about freezing eggs. I think he could go either way with kids (having children or not), but the one way he *doesn't* want to go is having children with a partner who will be largely absentee, leaving all the parenting to him. He appears to be okay with choosing to be childfree (told you he was ok with not having kids prior to marriage and has said he could stay in life with you with no children), but he's telling your friends he doesn't want kids and refusing to freeze eggs with you because he doesn't want to be a sole parent while you put your career first and work 120 hours a week. It would seem that if he's going to choose parenthood, he wants to do it in the framework of shared child-rearing responsibilities.

Don't know if any of this is helpful, but hoping it may be.
 

Kaleigh

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Alley,
Thinking of you!! HUGS!!!!!
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
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alj, that's what I was thinking, too. The person who questions, "do you love me?" is usually the one who loves more and who wants to stay together more.
 

movie zombie

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been thinking lots about your post, aljdewey.
makes lots of sense.....especially, since he has stated he does not want to be a stay at home dad.
as always, there are two sides to every story and the truth is somewhere between the two.
apples and oranges can make a great fruit salad but only if the other ingredients bring them together.....not force them further apart.
 

jstarfireb

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6,232
Allycat, I've been reading but not posting because I don't think I can give you unbiased advice. Some of your situation resonates a little with me (the disagreement about children in particular). So all I can really offer is a virtual hug from a fellow MD who knows how much of a strain the training puts on relationships. I was just thinking of you and hoping you might come back after some time and let us know how things are going. Best wishes.
 
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