Cuprian tourmaline

[RSargent]

Hi to the community! I am fascinated by copper bearing tourmaline and have a question for anyone who can answer. I have read that the most desirable cuprians are neon and glow, no matter what color they are. What I have observed is that the lighter pastel (dare I say pale mint) green/blues have more of the "glow" than many of their more saturated counterparts. They have that eery (and wonderful) incandescence even in very little light. I feel that I can tell them apart from similarly colored aqua just through this characteristic. Has anyone else noticed this? Also, I am curious if cuprians are still being mined anywhere. Were they really found only in Brazil, Nigeria and Mozambique? Is any more material coming out of these mines? Thanks!

 

[chrono]

I'm not sure if perhaps the way you worded your sentence, but I find that the more saturated the cuprian, the more glowy it looks so a lighter pastel will not have as much glow. A good cuprian will look shockingly fake.

The following pictures were taken by a PSer at a museum, so these Paraibas look much better in person. I'd love to credit the photographer but I've forgotten who it is.

 

[LD]

In my honest opinion, the pale ones are pale and far less glowy than the more saturated stones.

As Chrono has said, a fantastic Paraiba/Cuprian will look completely fake - like a nuked glowing topaz! A pale stone just can't compare.

The presence of manganese and copper in a tourmaline can however mean that it has the eerie glow you speak of but honestly a cuprian that looks like an Aqua but with a glow really isn't a Paraiba and is a bog standard cuprian.

In terms of mining, unfortunately there doesn't appear to be any material being mined at the moment and yes, the areas you mention are the only ones that had the famous windex blue stones.

 

[RSargent]

Thank you both. This was really helpful. So all the glow-y paler stones from Nigeria and Mozambique sold as paraiba-colored really aren't -- interesting! I do think pale cuprians are gorgeous though.

 

[RSargent]

Here is the stone I am speaking about:
http://mail.aol.com/38252-111/aol-6/en-us/mail/get-attachment.aspx?uid=30391171&folder=NewMail&partId=3

Hope this works.

 

[RSargent]

The stone is paler in some lights than others. It seems more saturated in natural light and more watery under artificial light.

 

[T L]

Thank you both. This was really helpful. So all the glow-y paler stones from Nigeria and Mozambique sold as paraiba-colored really aren't -- interesting! I do think pale cuprians are gorgeous though.

There are some very neon Mozambique stones, but the original deposit in Brazil had the finest saturations. Nigeria, IMO, had the least saturated stones of the three locales.

There are some stones still being sold out of Brazil, but they do not compare to the original deposits that were first discovered in the 80's.

 

[T L]

Here is the stone I am speaking about:
http://mail.aol.com/38252-111/aol-6/en-us/mail/get-attachment.aspx?uid=30391171&folder=NewMail&partId=3

Hope this works.

Your link isn't working. You may need to upload the photo here.

 

[slksapphire]

Palagems has an amazing one for sale now ... It's the first one in the collectors corner. A cool $79,500 fo 1.6 carats

 

[T L]

Palagems has an amazing one for sale now ... It's the first one in the collectors corner. A cool $79,500 fo 1.6 carats

Wow, that's in the realm of rare FCD prices.

 

[RSargent]

That has amazing color but the typical inclusions of Brazilian material. I can't seem to upload photos which is a bummer. I will keep working on it. I guess my question is that I see how deeply saturated the true Paraibas are, but what about the copper bearing stones that seem to change color depending on the light. That feature can be mesmerizing. I have one ring with a blue green stone that seems very pale and watery in some lights (almost a pastel blue) and then it deepens into a glowing green in natural light. I will keep trying to upload photos. I guess these are the straight cuprians, but they are lovely compared to non cuprian blue greens.

 

[T L]

That has amazing color but the typical inclusions of Brazilian material. I can't seem to upload photos which is a bummer. I will keep working on it. I guess my question is that I see how deeply saturated the true Paraibas are, but what about the copper bearing stones that seem to change color depending on the light. That feature can be mesmerizing. I have one ring with a blue green stone that seems very pale and watery in some lights (almost a pastel blue) and then it deepens into a glowing green in natural light. I will keep trying to upload photos. I guess these are the straight cuprians, but they are lovely compared to non cuprian blue greens.

Maybe I'm the lone person here, but I don't see the neon glow to that stone. Maybe its the photo. Then again, Paraibas truly need to be appreciated in person to understand what makes them so beautiful. Photos just never do them justice.

This photo of the stone in the left hand corner (the smaller stone) appears to be more neon. I attached the pala photo to compare. I think that one needs to be evaluated in person.

 

[minousbijoux]

That has amazing color but the typical inclusions of Brazilian material. I can't seem to upload photos which is a bummer. I will keep working on it. I guess my question is that I see how deeply saturated the true Paraibas are, but what about the copper bearing stones that seem to change color depending on the light. That feature can be mesmerizing. I have one ring with a blue green stone that seems very pale and watery in some lights (almost a pastel blue) and then it deepens into a glowing green in natural light. I will keep trying to upload photos. I guess these are the straight cuprians, but they are lovely compared to non cuprian blue greens.

I guess I'm confused as to what your question is? I have found that the ones that are of medium tone and highest saturation have the best glow. I have also found that in general, the more blue, the greater the glow. I have seen green ones and violet ones and while they are pretty, they do not jump out at me and shriek to be noticed.

I own several of the blue cuprians. Two are "Pool water" blue and one is greenish blue and set in a ring. I do not see color shift in any of these stones, though I do see them turn on even brighter in direct light, particularly sun. I love the fact that when I am driving at night, and wearing my ring, that bugger glows back at me, picking up whatever little bit of light is around, even if I'm on a country road!

 

[RSargent]

I think words can not describe cuprians and that may be my issue! What I have noticed is that I have what I would consider less vividly saturated cuprians because of my price limitations, however even when they are lighter in tone, they seem to capture and pool the light source and then beam it back at me in a deeper shade of blue-green! It really glows from within. This is mainly true in natural light. In artificial light they just look like light blue aquamarines. I agree that the top stone in the post above is not glowy at all and appears to have a giant window you could drive a bus through. Someday I need to see a bunch of true Paraibas in person. I just love them in all their colors. I just love tourmaline in general. Wish I could post pictures!

 

[pregcurious]

I wrote out instructions to post pics in your other thread.

 

[RSargent]

Here is the ring I was talking about. It's in 18k yellow gold and about 1 carat. Thank you for all the help posting photos.

 

[LD]

There is a fine line between some Cuprians/Paraibas BUT a Paraiba you would never describe as "pale" or "watery".

Don't forget there are some lovely Cuprians to be had without the enormous price tag that goes with it. I was recently offered a minimum of $25k per carat for my Paraiba but then others don't even command $500 per carat so the range is phenomenal.

The photograph of the ring depicts a nice Cuprian and the type that shopping tv channels were selling as Paraibas a while ago. It lacks the saturation of a Paraiba but has a decent colour that I'm sure will glow (as a nice Cuprian always should).

 

[T L]

There is a fine line between some Cuprians/Paraibas BUT a Paraiba you would never describe as "pale" or "watery".

Don't forget there are some lovely Cuprians to be had without the enormous price tag that goes with it. I was recently offered a minimum of $25k per carat for my Paraiba but then others don't even command $500 per carat so the range is phenomenal.

The photograph of the ring depicts a nice Cuprian and the type that shopping tv channels were selling as Paraibas a while ago. It lacks the saturation of a Paraiba but has a decent colour that I'm sure will glow (as a nice Cuprian always should).

The problem is that just because a stone contains copper, some vendors feel they should be able to charge enormous prices for the stone, even if copper isn't the coloring agent, as it is in Paraibas.

Anyways, I have some lighter cuprians too, and they're quite lovely gems, and very bright, but not like those gorgeous Paraibas that command huge prices.

The stone in the background for example is a reddish purple, and should not be valuable based on that color, even if it has copper. Many reddish purples don't heat to paraiba blue either.

 

[RSargent]

Would this one be Paraiba based on color? It's a cuprian from Nigeria. It's may favorite ring as it blazes in all light. Hard to see the blue that is often visible.

 

[FrekeChild]

Cuprian isn't based on color; it's based on chemical composition. If a stone is colored by copper, it's a cuprian. If it's not, it just contains trace amounts of copper, it's up for debate.

 

[RSargent]

Right. This is a certified copper bearing stone. I understand that copper bearing doesn't determine color, but that the paraiba designation does. Just curious if this color is in that range or if it's just a standard bog cuprian.

 

[LD]

Looking at the stone I'm afraid I would say no.

It doesn't have the saturation or colour of a Paraiba. Also, green is not a desirable colour for a Paraiba. Although there are some classified as Paraibas, they really don't achieve the big bucks of the blue ones. Let me load some photos for you to illustrate.

IF it has copper/manganese then it may well be a cuprian but a cuprian doesn't mean more value than a non-copper bearing tourmaline. I hope that makes sense.

 

[LD]

Ok - first one is a Paraiba tourmaline. Look at the colour, saturation and glow. Basically it looks almost man made and false!

Then look at the next two. They're green Cuprians. Although they have the same chemical make-up as a Paraiba they lack the "in your face" glow/neon quality that you associate with Paraibas. Now then, this is where it gets confusing because now, if the chemical make up is correct then you can say you have a Paraiba BUT to a collector / jeweller / or vendor, they would most likely say that they're very very very poor Paraibas and it would be kinder to call them lovely Cuprians!

 

[RSargent]

I think I am finally getting it! Wow to that first one.