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Is this a common "teen" thing?

CJ2008

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Tuckins1|1386022179|3566277 said:
Oh boy, my niece is also 14 and she is the same way. Every one is stupid, ugly, annoying, etc... I just roll my eyes and ignore her. If we are in public and she says it where someone can hear her, I will straighten her out quickly.

Yeah, none of the times that she said something was she close enough to whoever she was saying it about for them to hear her...that would be even worse. :sick:
 

packrat

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When you're young like that, you don't necessarily understand that things that you do/say to/about other people has a way of sticking with them. I'm 39 years old, and I still have horrible self confidence because of the teasing I dealt with as a child and teenager. My mom was very "water off a duck's back" about it, so I tried to deal with it the best I could. And it's hard for a little girl to deal with being told she doesn't measure up. Being snickered at, pointed at, made faces at etc. And once one girl starts, the rest in her circle will follow. And the ones who want to be in her circle will do it too. Going to my mom didn't make it stop. Slitting my wrists in 7th grade didn't make it stop. What made it stop was I became a teenager and I became mean. And I stood up for others who were dealing with it too, who didn't know how to make it stop because I couldn't take it anymore. Having a short little blonde girl burst into a classroom and pick a boy up off his chair and toss him, telling him if he had something to say about me he could say it to my face, that stopped it. Grabbing a teachers daughter and slamming her into a locker for repeatedly making fun of someone who didn't have the clothes/looks that *she* had, that made it stop. Telling the principal that if HE wasn't going to stop it, I'd take care of it myself, that helped. Short and mean. As a senior one of the teachers on suggestion of the principal had me come to a couple freshman classes to discuss the problem of teasing/bullying. It's one thing I can not abide. Can't.
 

momhappy

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Her comments come from a place of insecurity and yes, insecurity issues are rampant in the teen years. I would use the opportunities to politely/gently remind her that her negativity is not productive and only serves to make her look bad. If you want a less direct approach, you could choose to ignore it (and see if she gets the hint and ceases the talk knowing that you won't respond to it) or you could change the subject. I have women friends in their 40's (and I use the term "friends rather loosely here) who still do this sort of thing (constantly cut people down). I ignore it and immediately change the subject. It usually takes a few times, but they get the hint and learn that I will not participate.
 

CJ2008

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packrat|1386024873|3566294 said:
When you're young like that, you don't necessarily understand that things that you do/say to/about other people has a way of sticking with them. I'm 39 years old, and I still have horrible self confidence because of the teasing I dealt with as a child and teenager.

Sorry to hear about your terrible experiences with bullying Packrat :(sad - growing up I was never teased to that extent but I have had negative things said to me at one point or another and I recall those things like they were yesterday. The exact moment I heard them. Everything.

momhappy - I might try ignoring as a tactic if I saw her often enough where that could drive the point home...but with the little I see her I need to be direct. I plan on doing it gently, but clearly. And the fact that it makes her look bad will be added to my list of points to make.

ETA - momhappy - yes, I'm sure that even women in their 40s do it. One of my close friends who lives in another state I remember would do that. She did it only a few times and like you I have no interest in that type of conversation so I just either ignored it or actually said something to the effect of ("oh, I'm not judgmental about women like that.") It was a long time ago so I don't remember exactly - but that is definitely something I would say. Curious - are these women above average in looks or body type? This particular friend was. Although I'm sure that has nothing to do with it. ETA2 - one of the most gorgeous women I've even been friends with - a mix between Christy Turlington and Marylin Monroe, and with a naturally long, toned body - never ever said anything mean about anybody's looks.
 

Smith1942

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Re. women in their 40s: But it's adults of all ages who still do this. One of my husband's colleagues is a very hard, non-sympatico woman well into her forties. She posted on Facebook one of those cruel pictures which I gather was from a website called People of Walmart. I have never visited the site but I gather it's images of the most overweight people who shop at Walmart. Really mature, yes? Anyway, this picture was from behind of a very obese person falling out of their mobility scooter trying to reach something on the shelf. People had "liked" it, and written comments, including my husband and niece (his niece, not from my side of the family where such cruel remarks don't happen.)

So I wrote a comment, too. I can't remember what it was exactly, but the gist of it was "Poor thing; I wonder what medical conditions or past traumas caused her to end up very overweight. It must be awful to live like that." Without getting too moralistic and antagonising my husband's colleague, I wanted to send the message that laughing at obese people is not OK. I mean, what next, bear-baiting? When did it become OK as a society to electronically put obese people in an online ring and point, laugh, and make cruel jokes at them? It really disgusts me. Some studies have shown that people who have been sexually abused in childhood are statistically more likely to be overweight. You really have no idea what terrible things might have happened to someone. So I have had to have words with my husband about the issue of commenting on others' weights, and I have actually said to him, "What are you, fourteen?" I won't have it.

So no, unfortunately, it's not just teen girls.

ETA: I definitely think that this kind of thing stems from insecurity. My husband is quite insecure about his looks, I think. And with your niece, I guess it's perfectly possible to be beautiful yet insecure.

If you feel bad about the way you look, perhaps putting down the appearance of others is a way of saying out loud that you cannot possibly be that bad looking because see how that other person over there looks! It's almost like an affirmation.
 

Smith1942

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packrat|1386024873|3566294 said:
When you're young like that, you don't necessarily understand that things that you do/say to/about other people has a way of sticking with them. I'm 39 years old, and I still have horrible self confidence because of the teasing I dealt with as a child and teenager. My mom was very "water off a duck's back" about it, so I tried to deal with it the best I could. And it's hard for a little girl to deal with being told she doesn't measure up. Being snickered at, pointed at, made faces at etc. And once one girl starts, the rest in her circle will follow. And the ones who want to be in her circle will do it too. Going to my mom didn't make it stop. Slitting my wrists in 7th grade didn't make it stop. What made it stop was I became a teenager and I became mean. And I stood up for others who were dealing with it too, who didn't know how to make it stop because I couldn't take it anymore. Having a short little blonde girl burst into a classroom and pick a boy up off his chair and toss him, telling him if he had something to say about me he could say it to my face, that stopped it. Grabbing a teachers daughter and slamming her into a locker for repeatedly making fun of someone who didn't have the clothes/looks that *she* had, that made it stop. Telling the principal that if HE wasn't going to stop it, I'd take care of it myself, that helped. Short and mean. As a senior one of the teachers on suggestion of the principal had me come to a couple freshman classes to discuss the problem of teasing/bullying. It's one thing I can not abide. Can't.

Packrat, you badass! I like your style!

My dad's friend had a son who was being quite badly bullied at school. Until one day he punched the ringleader boy in the face and never experienced a minute's bother again. The school reported the hitter to his father, who said "Well done"!!
 

lulu

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Well, I have two granddaughters-13 and 14. They have never done this around me and if they did I would speak to them about it. I believe in nipping stuff in the bud. There are a lot of dead buds in my past.
 

momhappy

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Smith1942|1386030015|3566348 said:
Re. women in their 40s: But it's adults of all ages who still do this. One of my husband's colleagues is a very hard, non-sympatico woman well into her forties. She posted on Facebook one of those cruel pictures which I gather was from a website called People of Walmart. I have never visited the site but I gather it's images of the most overweight people who shop at Walmart. Really mature, yes? Anyway, this picture was from behind of a very obese person falling out of their mobility scooter trying to reach something on the shelf. People had "liked" it, and written comments, including my husband and niece (his niece, not from my side of the family where such cruel remarks don't happen.)

So I wrote a comment, too. I can't remember what it was exactly, but the gist of it was "Poor thing; I wonder what medical conditions or past traumas caused her to end up very overweight. It must be awful to live like that." Without getting too moralistic and antagonising my husband's colleague, I wanted to send the message that laughing at obese people is not OK. I mean, what next, bear-baiting? When did it become OK as a society to electronically put obese people in an online ring and point, laugh, and make cruel jokes at them? It really disgusts me. Some studies have shown that people who have been sexually abused in childhood are statistically more likely to be overweight. You really have no idea what terrible things might have happened to someone. So I have had to have words with my husband about the issue of commenting on others' weights, and I have actually said to him, "What are you, fourteen?" I won't have it.

So no, unfortunately, it's not just teen girls.

ETA: I definitely think that this kind of thing stems from insecurity. My husband is quite insecure about his looks, I think. And with your niece, I guess it's perfectly possible to be beautiful yet insecure.

If you feel bad about the way you look, perhaps putting down the appearance of others is a way of saying out loud that you cannot possibly be that bad looking because see how that other person over there looks! It's almost like an affirmation.

While I understand your point, not every overweight person has trauma, medical conditions, etc. Some people simply live unhealthy lifestyles. However, that's not what this thread is about, so that's all I have to say about that.
As far as People of Wal-Mart is concerned, here's an interesting read on the site. It doesn't just poke fun at fat people, it's more about people-watching in general and apparently Wal-Mart (like Vegas) is good for people-watching.
http://www.post-gazette.com/lifestyle/2010/10/20/Creators-of-People-of-Walmart-website-that-pokes-fun-at-Walmart-customers-have-local-ties/stories/201010200159
 

Gypsy

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CJ2008|1386019315|3566245 said:
I'm feeling like I didn't do enough to point out how incredibly helpful some of your specific points were...and I plan on using them in my talk with my niece...like:

beauty fades
beauty is fragile - can be taken away (accident, etc.)
There is way more to life than being good looking
there is a person inside each "ugly" body
Ask her to imagine her friends snickering at that attribute about her --- which she can't help having been born with.
you could talk about the medical conditions and drugs that can lead to weight gain, or muse aloud that some people are very unhappy with good reason and for some, eating is a way of assuaging the memories from bad - sometimes terrible - experiences that continue to bother them.
she did nothing to earn her looks and therefore cannot really be proud of them.

Thank you all so much.


Wonderful list.

I was very pretty when I was younger but also smart. My smarts were emphasized over my looks and I got... arrogant, about it. Anything that we take for granted can be bad.

Yes, you niece and her mom (good grief about the unattractive boyfriend!!!) are both shallow. And so your sister doesn't see anything wrong with it and in fact, seems to nurture it.

I would make sure to bring these points up to the mom, as well as the daughter.

And also point something else out.
Who would they prefer to spend time with? A nice person who is genuine, but less attractive than average. Or a beautiful person who only has beauty going for them.

The other thing about beauty? You get used to it. Sure the first three or four times you see a very pretty person their looks strike you. But marry that person or spend a lot of time with them: their looks become part of the background. It's all the OTHER stuff: their empathy, their humor, their loyalty that keeps you interested in STAYING with them.

Beauty without depth of character is NOT true beauty. It's a lovely store front. But if you go in that store and there is nothing more... you leave, taking your money and your time with you. And you don't back.
 

marymm

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OP - do your sister and niece live far away from you, or are you able to see them in person without too much difficulty?

I am thinking it would be most effective for you to have a dialogue with your niece on this subject, in person, rather than sending a letter. A letter will help you get your message out, but it is very one-way... a conversation will allow you to see the impact your words have, give your niece the chance to respond and to ask questions, and for you to "tweak" the talking points based on her reaction and your two-way conversation.

It sounds like a non-confrontational approach (one that doesn't cause her to immediately become defensive and block out your words) might be the most helpful way to structure your initial words -- if she is mirroring what she sees in her own home and in her school and in her circle of friends, she is still young enough to be given the benefit of the doubt, that she really is unaware of the cruelty and negativity underlying her critical comments, and doesn't understand that those cruel words are poison to her as well as to everyone who hears them.

I really have to say you are a wonderful aunt for really looking at your niece and her words and her conduct, and wanting to steer her right so her character development is true and positive.

eta: I don't think you'll be able to change your sister, that's why I suggest talking just to your niece and giving her another point of view without making her feel defensive on her own behalf or on behalf of her mom (your sister).
 

TC1987

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I don't think remarks like the OP describes come from anything like insecurity. They come from a sense of smug superiority and entitlement. And there are a lot of smug young people out there nowadays who think that they are automatically "better" than others because they have looks, or money, or their parents' home is the nicest in town, or their parents bought them a hawt car, or whatever. Those kids' remarks in the original post sound like something out of Heathers, or Mean Girls, or other high-school-popular-clique movie.

I was a dowdy teenager, not popular. I grew up in a rural and isolated area with two siblings that I have nothing (else) in common with, and only two neighbor kids who were 4-6 years older, so I had essentially no playmates. I didn't have loads of stylish clothes and makeup because my brother had health problems and there was no extra money. I read a lot of books, I did outdoorsy activities, and I had a horse. After college, I got a great career going and I slimmed down and aerobicized, and sewed my own clothes, and suddenly I and it all and I looked like a million dollars for the first time in my life. THEN I got all of that attention from people, from men in particular, that the OP describes her nieces getting. And I found it shallow, offensive, unnerving, and just plain annoying at times. Most of the time, actually. Guys came on to me all the time, and store clerks and car salesmen fawned over me because they wanted the sale, and life was just plain weird for a while there. Tell those girls there are benefits to looking "average enough" to have a stressfree lifestyle and be able to walk around in a crowd and not be noticed much. And not have to spend all that time, money, and effort on maintenance. :lol:
 

MichelleCarmen

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This is not just a teen thing, but can start as early as elementary school and even boys say things like this. Not all kids are like this but the behavior is most likely something they learned from a parent (sadly). I've heard many kids say nasty things and some sound like they're repeating something they heard from their moms (and I've even found that some kids say certain things and later will have a conversation w/the parent and they'll say comments along the same lines).
 

CJ2008

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Smith - it must be insecurity of looks PLUS something else. I am quite insecure about my looks and I suspect that is at least one of the reasons why I wouldn't dare be judgmental of others. If someone wanted to pick me apart boy would they have quite a few things they could say. :sick:

I actually admire women who even when they're overweight or don't have perfect bodies they'll wear something that show off their bodies. It must be awesome to feel comfortable in your own skin.

Gypsy - I love this list.

And how interesting the point you make is that anything that's emphasized/made a big deal of has the potential to go haywire. ETA: I think this is one of the points I'll make to my niece as well. That ANYTHING that makes you feel you're superior is something to keep in check. Not just looks.

Yeah the "ugly" boy thing made me cringe. And I so regret not reaching out to my niece back then. I feel perhaps I could have been an influence and may have stopped some of the things I'm seeing now. :(( But everything happens for a reason. I feel a sense of urgency and this time I won't let it pass me by.

marymm - that is exactly why I want to choose my words carefully. I want my niece to be open to listening - not to "scare" her into just not acting a certain way in front of me but really not making genuine impact. And yes, excellent point...the last thing I want is for her to put up her defenses thinking I'm criticizing her mother.

The live about 3.5 hours from me - I could make a special trip...I think you're right that in person would be best. I think part of me understands the need to do in person but there's a certain amount of anxiety that goes along with doing it in person for the same reasons...that maybe I'll say the wrong thing or she'll block me out or I'll say something that really bothers her and she won't ever open up to me again. :sick:

ETA: thanks for the compliment.

TC1987 - I agree with you 100% on this "I don't think remarks like the OP describes come from anything like insecurity. They come from a sense of smug superiority and entitlement. And there are a lot of smug young people out there nowadays who think that they are automatically "better" than others because they have looks, or money, or their parents' home is the nicest in town, or their parents bought them a hawt car, or whatever. Those kids' remarks in the original post sound like something out of Heathers, or Mean Girls, or other high-school-popular-clique movie."

On the surface. But when I start to think about it, there MAY be some roots in insecurity. Hear me out. In my niece's case - my feeling is she may feel somewhat in competition with her mother. For a long time niece had to be in her mother's shadow (she was too young to be noticed by men). And now what she is being noticed - there must be some sense of security that she TOO is being noticed. That she too is getting compliments. And she may be holding on to that for dear life. It's almost as if they BOTH are proud of each other's looks. Like they feed on each other's beauty.

As far as maintenance...my sister does NONE. And when I say none, I mean she hardly wears makeup, is not particularly good at it when she does put some on, she has some acne, never gets manicures, paints her own toenails (also not well), etc. Only recently has she started coloring her hair.
 

CJ2008

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MC|1386046210|3566480 said:
This is not just a teen thing, but can start as early as elementary school and even boys say things like this. Not all kids are like this but the behavior is most likely something they learned from a parent (sadly). I've heard many kids say nasty things and some sound like they're repeating something they heard from their moms (and I've even found that some kids say certain things and later will have a conversation w/the parent and they'll say comments along the same lines).

Right. I read somewhere (perhaps it was the article JulieN posted, not sure) - that said boys tend to criticize in other boys status, power, money (the things that women like / look for in men). Where women criticize looks and sex appeal (the things that men like / look for in women).
 
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