Need your advise before i buy this stone please :-)

[bostonvr6]

My first post, First i would like to say how amazing this website is. I have found so much information about what i need to look for and the previous questions and answers posted here were extremely helpful to.

I have been looking for a 1.25ct round ideal cut stone. VVS2+ and F+. 3EX Budget is around 13500-14500 for the stone, plus the setting, looking to get a "cushion" halo setting in platinum.

Now the reason i am posting is i think i found a stone i like but i want to make sure i am not missing anything, i do have two concerns about the stone.

One, I think it might be too deep and narrow making it look small. This is based on HCA spread only being "very good" and not excellent and depth being 61.9. Second

Second concern is that i think its a Hearts and Arrows diamond. I was not looking for one of these, wasnt really sure what it was. From my understanding the HCA tool doesnt work on Hearts and Arrows? Is hearts and arrows a good thing?? If you go to the link you can see the ASET pictures.

Thanks for the help in advance!


Here is the stone, and incase i dont post the link right, i will type out all the details.

http://www.b2cjewels.com/Images//Certificate//4266960.pdf
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4266960-1.24-carat-Round-diamond-F-color-VVS1-clarity.aspx
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4266960-1.24-carat-Round-diamond-F-color-VVS1-clarity.aspx

1.24CT round
6.84x6.88x4.25mm
F color
VVS1 clarity
Polish - excellent
Symmetry - excellent
Flourescence - none
No graining (inside or out)

Table - 57%
Depth - 61.9% (this is where my concern is, is it too deep? is all the carat weight in the bottom?)
Crown - 35.5 degrees
Pavillion - 40.6 degrees
Girdle - Medium to slightly thicke Facet 3.5%
No culet

HCA Tool - Score 1.4 - Excellent - Within TIC range
Light Return - Excellent
Fire - Excellent
Scintillation - Excellent
Spread - Very good (this again, makes me feel like the diamond is not wide enough and is too deep?)

 

[bostonvr6]

I forgot to mention how much it was. $13,458.

All thoughts about the depth and Hearts and arrows concerns are welcomed.

Thank you

 

[D&T]

IS there a particular reason you want an F and VVS clarity? you can stretch to G/H and down the VS or even SI 1 eye clean focusing on cut to be the priority here and probably can't tell in terms of color and clarity once the diamond is set. The diamond may show slight difference loose but once the prongs are surrounding the diamonds doubtful that you will detect any difference so long as you buy a diamond with the best light performance.

just for example... here is a 1.23ct http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.23-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-262315 for under 10k.

if you look at it straight on you see the "arrows" when you flip it on its table you can see the "hearts" in the pavilion hence that is what a hearts and arrow diamond will look like, majority on the market today with the traditional facets will exhibit this characteristic of being Hearts and Arrow, but only some lab will actually give it a "hearts and arrow" designation but I don't know what their parameters is- will need to read up on that . I've seen some Hearts and Arrow designation where the HCA scores well over a 2. I've seen some diamonds that were given by the vendors an "ideal cut" but the HCA was well over a 2.

the diamond you chose, I don't see a huge problem with it at all, other than the crown angle is a little steeper than what some prefer. I like my angle in the 35 range, but others don't.

ETA: if size is important.. .by dropping clarity and color you can possibly go up to a 1.5-1.6 ct range for your budget unless its a cultural thing you have to be in the F and VVS?

 

[bostonvr6]

D&T, thanks for your quick reply! To answer your question about my choice in color and clarity. I think the color is something i personally can tell when looking at other women's rings just in the general public. I notice if it seems off yellow, maybe its in my head, but knowing that its D E F makes me feel better. For clarity i feel safer going with a higher clarity since im buying online site unseen. I have seen some VS/Si stones and not impressed with the random inclusions that looked a bit obvious to naked eye (its hit or miss). Also, my hopefully soon to be fiance is very petite so i dont want anything much bigger than 1.25ct especially when surrounding it with a halo which makes it even bigger (rather than just a solitare) so a diamond of this quality (F+ VVS2+)is within my budget so i decided to go with the best within my budget at this specific size. Essentially, its in my budget so why not if im not gonna go bigger?

Thanks for also mentioning the concern about the crown angle, i too was concerned about it i was hoping to keep it 34-35. Partly the reason im hesitating on this stone, size and quality is great but i think some of the angles and depth just arent as nice as i could get within my budget, this is probably on the lower end. It is however the best HCA rating i have found within my budget.

Anyone else have any comments on the angles/table/depth? And also the quality of the "hearts and arrows" aspect of this stone?

Thank you all in advance!

 

[RockyRacoon]

Check this one out (over $2,500 less expensive):

Same color, same spread (size), amazing cut, and a high enough clarity that it will look identical to a VVS+ to the naked eye (totally eye clean and you can ask BGD to personally inspect it, which you can't do with some vendors that don't have stones in-house):
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.207-f-vs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104067041019

If I were you, I would choose this stone and put the money saved towards an amazing setting.

 

[Gypsy]

Check this one out (over $2,500 less expensive):

Same color, same spread (size), amazing cut, and a high enough clarity that it will look identical to a VVS+ to the naked eye (totally eye clean and you can ask BGD to personally inspect it, which you can't do with some vendors that don't have stones in-house):
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.207-f-vs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104067041019

If I were you, I would choose this stone and put the money saved towards an amazing setting.

Ditto. VS2 is going to be clean and clear and a much better deal than a VVS stone (which in a round is just overkill).

 

[JulieN]

You need to go to a store and look for yourself with GIA graded stones about color. These off-color stones that you see casually other women wearing, did they tell you what color it was? do you have know if they are H, K, or N color stones? Also, of course, just because you may be super sensitive to color, does not mean your gf is.

A couple weeks ago, a couple bought an ungraded stone that looked just slightly warm to them, advertised as something near colorless which they believed it to be, and when the GIA report came back, it was an M. You might be able to find the thread.

 

[D&T]

D&T, thanks for your quick reply! To answer your question about my choice in color and clarity. I think the color is something i personally can tell when looking at other women's rings just in the general public. I notice if it seems off yellow, maybe its in my head, but knowing that its D E F makes me feel better. For clarity i feel safer going with a higher clarity since im buying online site unseen. I have seen some VS/Si stones and not impressed with the random inclusions that looked a bit obvious to naked eye (its hit or miss). Also, my hopefully soon to be fiance is very petite so i dont want anything much bigger than 1.25ct especially when surrounding it with a halo which makes it even bigger (rather than just a solitare) so a diamond of this quality (F+ VVS2+)is within my budget so i decided to go with the best within my budget at this specific size. Essentially, its in my budget so why not if im not gonna go bigger?

Thanks for also mentioning the concern about the crown angle, i too was concerned about it i was hoping to keep it 34-35. Partly the reason im hesitating on this stone, size and quality is great but i think some of the angles and depth just arent as nice as i could get within my budget, this is probably on the lower end. It is however the best HCA rating i have found within my budget.

Anyone else have any comments on the angles/table/depth? And also the quality of the "hearts and arrows" aspect of this stone?

Thank you all in advance!

Also please be aware that the general public might not have the "best" cut diamond and therefore their diamond may appear to look a bit more 'yellow' because the facets aren't twinkling and scintillating and their diamonds aren't bouncing off light to mask the color whatever it may not be even graded at all, so what you think might be a G might very well be an M N color or so.

In any case, if the size of 1.25 is perfect then that is what you should have, but I would still look possibly going to VS1 as well to save a little more so you aren't over paying for something you can't see and possibly go with a vendor that can inspect it for you.

 

[D&T]

You need to go to a store and look for yourself with GIA graded stones about color. These off-color stones that you see casually other women wearing, did they tell you what color it was? do you have know if they are H, K, or N color stones? Also, of course, just because you may be super sensitive to color, does not mean your gf is.

A couple weeks ago, a couple bought an ungraded stone that looked just slightly warm to them, advertised as something near colorless which they believed it to be, and when the GIA report came back, it was an M. You might be able to find the thread.

I also Second Julie's recommendation, and also ask that when you do see the stones loose in person, if the jeweler has semi mounts ask if you can just set those diamonds in the head of the setting, you will also see that IF there is any color difference the metal will minimize that difference.

 

[bostonvr6]

thanks everyone for your comments. essentially what im reading is you think im overpaying for something that will look just as good at a lower price point.

Perhaps i wont pull the trigger and ill widen my search criteria, i have another week or two until i MUST buy, looking to propose around Dec 19th.

In the mean time for my own education. Any more thoughts on this particular stone i am posting about (aside from color and clarity).

Angles/Depth/Table? How does the ASET image look to you?

Thank you!

 

[CharmyPoo]

With two equal diamonds except for color, I can actually tell a F from an H so I can understand why someone would rather have an F. F/G is harder. So I think if you want an F ... go for it ... if even for a mind clean thing!

In terms of clarity, I think you are pretty safe dropping to a VS1. Almost all my larger diamonds are VS1 and I can hardly find the inclusions under a loupe (to be honest ... I can't but my husband can). In my VVS1, neither of us can find anything under a loupe.

Net of all this ... if high color and clarity are important to you which it sounds like it is, I would recommend going with F/VS1.

 

[bostonvr6]

Thanks charmy! Yes i know it sounds like im would be paying an extra 2500ish for no reason but mental peace of mind can have a value to it. With that being said i will still consider what everyone is saying and start looking at slightly lower color and clarity.

Anyone with thoughts on the Angles/Depth/Table?

Thanks

 

[heididdl]

HEARTS and arrows is a branded cutting style ( if you will) which you are paying for like buying Kleenex tissues It shouldn't make a difference on the HCA tool as it is a RB.....The stone is gorgous. I get everyones personal preference for color and clarity but I still want to kick in that VVS is over kill. I am 5 ' 0 100 lbs with a 3.66 carate EC in a 1 inch thick platinum setting with .50 trillions as side stones.

My stone is GIA H si1 and I would pay anyone $100 on the spot if they could find the one tiny inclusion in my stone. It is so white it seems blinding . So each stone has its own merrits and 1.25 is a very nice size for a RB and your right the halo will make it look bigger but can't help thinking i'd rather have a 1.50 G si1 (totally eye clean ) Ideal Cut stone (if it is H&A) even better.

Its just an opinion but i think either way this is a great stone it might be just slightly deep but you have to order it and see.

I am concerned because PS suggest BG all the time and I dont know why they dont have return I guess because it is a virtual stone Why not call and ask them whats in stock similar so you can send for it and see it in person

 

[JulieN]

angles/depth/table are fine, it is really nice.

 

[bostonvr6]

HEARTS and arrows is a branded cutting style ( if you will) which you are paying for like buying Kleenex tissues It shouldn't make a difference on the HCA tool as it is a RB.....The stone is gorgous. I get everyones personal preference for color and clarity but I still want to kick in that VVS is over kill. I am 5 ' 0 100 lbs with a 3.66 carate EC in a 1 inch thick platinum setting with .50 trillions as side stones.

My stone is GIA H si1 and I would pay anyone $100 on the spot if they could find the one tiny inclusion in my stone. It is so white it seems blinding . So each stone has its own merrits and 1.25 is a very nice size for a RB and your right the halo will make it look bigger but can't help thinking i'd rather have a 1.50 G si1 (totally eye clean ) Ideal Cut stone (if it is H&A) even better.

Its just an opinion but i think either way this is a great stone it might be just slightly deep but you have to order it and see.

I am concerned because PS suggest BG all the time and I dont know why they dont have return I guess because it is a virtual stone Why not call and ask them whats in stock similar so you can send for it and see it in person

So is this stone not Hearts and Arrows type? If not branded...at least a copy of that style?

Also what is RB? and BG? acrynms you used? I think RB means round brilliant? Not sure what BG is.

Thanks

 

[refox3488]

BG = Brian Gavin one of the vendors that was recommended. As you figured out RB is round brilliant.

 

[sparkle45]

Yes, RB mean Round Brilliant. MRB means Modern Round Brilliant. BG is Brian Gavin, a trusted vendor Gypsy linked you to above.

As far as Hearts and Arrows goes.. (H&A) Here's are links to two similar diamonds, one labeled H&A and the other not.

Can you spot the difference from the video alone?

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.96-carat-d-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-22859

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.92-carat-f-color-vvs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-72899

 

[sparkle45]

Also, I 'd like to second Heidi's comment about body size vs stone size. I'm 5'1 and 100 lbs. and, while I don't have my ring YET, I know that size IS important to me. I wear a size 4 ring, and almost no jewelry, and dress pretty conservatively, but to my mind the engagement ring is DIFFERENT. I can think of nothing better than putting a full 9mms of luscious OEC on that finger. Some might think that's strange, since I'm such a "low-maintenance", petite girl, but diamonds are diamonds and boy are they Gorgeous! And the bigger they are, the easier to see the faceting, the bigger the flashes, etc.

So.. all that to say, have you sneakily asked her about HER take on what the size should be? Or is your own conservatism coming into play here?

Unfortunately, I too am color sensitive, so I understand your inclination toward DEF, but I'd say to look for some G's, b/c you get the color discount of going down into the next bracket, but a G is incredibly hard to discern from an F. If you have eagle eyes, I still think you could most likely go down to a VS1 or 2.

Like other people have already said, the trouble with making all your assumptions about what color/clarity you should go for based on other random women's rings is that you had (I'm guessing) no idea what their diamonds were actually graded. If you were looking at a bunch of S12,I1's of J-K-L-M color, then it's a bit overkill to cut off your parameters at VVS F.

G is a far cry from J. Some will tell you H is a far cry as well, but I think H is where it starts to depend on the individual stone/cut/setting/lighting etc. I can see the color in most H's. That's where the color of the stone starts to blend in with the color of my (yellow-toned) skin.

Unless she has clearly stated that she wants a more modest size, I'd urge you to get the best cut at the largest size you can fit into your budget. Good Luck!

 

[ariel144]

Agree the VVS is over kill that most people don't want to pay thousands for. As long as the stone faces up relatively eye clean and not black inclusions most will never notice when looking at a well performing stone.

GOG has videos on color and clarity that it would be well worth your time to watch it will save you thousands when you go to purchase a diamond.

GOG is saying this G faces up like an F...you can save yourself about $4,000 too...premium H & A

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11493/

Or this 1.54c G si2...for 12,000 if you want larger for your $$

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11240/

Also the Brian Gavin Blues are awesome too and cheaper than the stone you posted and for the price ($9,000) i would go with the SI1:

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.216-f-si1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104067041016

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.207-f-vs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104067041019

 

[bostonvr6]

Ok thank you all for your insightful comments. I think you have definitely convinced me to drop down to VS1 and save some money. As far as color, I'm still mentally stuck at DEF so I think I will stay there just for mental feel good purpose. As for size, I think I will take the savings from Going down in clarity and looking at larger stones. The 1.25 was my own assumption on what would look good on her small hands. Perhaps 1.5 could work.

Thank you all! Hopefully after some research I will post again with a larger vs1 to ask you about.

How long do I have between order and delivery on most websites like bluenile and b2cjewels? I must have the ring in hand no later than dec 18th. What is the latest date I should safely order by? Thanks!!

 

[ariel144]

Also, I 'd like to second Heidi's comment about body size vs stone size. I'm 5'1 and 100 lbs. and, while I don't have my ring YET, I know that size IS important to me. I wear a size 4 ring, and almost no jewelry, and dress pretty conservatively, but to my mind the engagement ring is DIFFERENT. I can think of nothing better than putting a full 9mms of luscious OEC on that finger. Some might think that's strange, since I'm such a "low-maintenance", petite girl, but diamonds are diamonds and boy are they Gorgeous! And the bigger they are, the easier to see the faceting, the bigger the flashes, etc.

So.. all that to say, have you sneakily asked her about HER take on what the size should be? Or is your own conservatism coming into play here?

Unfortunately, I too am color sensitive, so I understand your inclination toward DEF, but I'd say to look for some G's, b/c you get the color discount of going down into the next bracket, but a G is incredibly hard to discern from an F. If you have eagle eyes, I still think you could most likely go down to a VS1 or 2.

Like other people have already said, the trouble with making all your assumptions about what color/clarity you should go for based on other random women's rings is that you had (I'm guessing) no idea what their diamonds were actually graded. If you were looking at a bunch of S12,I1's of J-K-L-M color, then it's a bit overkill to cut off your parameters at VVS F.

G is a far cry from J. Some will tell you H is a far cry as well, but I think H is where it starts to depend on the individual stone/cut/setting/lighting etc. I can see the color in most H's. That's where the color of the stone starts to blend in with the color of my (yellow-toned) skin.

Unless she has clearly stated that she wants a more modest size, I'd urge you to get the best cut at the largest size you can fit into your budget. Good Luck!

ditto on the OEC's...they are gorgeous when they are well cut stones no matter the color....watch some of the GOG videos and compare a Modern Round Brilliant MRB to his custom cut AVR's (August Vintage Rounds).
Here is an interesting video comparing the two...note the color difference and the way they perform:

AVR L vs1 + I vs h/a round

http://vimeo.com/9868723

Another color comparison...G vs M (both AVR's//OEC's)

G vs M color AVR’s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJk6ZzdFMew&list=UUEV7slr-i-VduBBnfv9MxhA&index=35&feature=plcp

 

[ariel144]

Another comparison of diff. faceting patterns on rounds:

Ideal Cut vs Hearts & Arrows vs August Vintage OEC vs Solasfera
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwiM3COzjFM