Should I call CPS and try for an Amber Alert?

[diamondseeker2006]

Sooo thankful those kids are safe!!! Is anyone in the family going to get the children out of foster care???

Honestly, I just saw the video and one of those babies only had on a diaper and a hat. That was in Chicago in November. People on the street had on coats. I really fear for those kids if the parents get custody again.

 

[LaraOnline]

eeek thank goodness it's all ended without disaster to this point!
Could have been a lot worse!
sending good wishes, Nonimarie!!

 

[TooPatient]

NM, I am so glad the kids are safe and at least their mother is getting help. I hope both parents get the help they need.

 

[JewelFreak]

NM, good news they've been found & at least dealing with the problems has started. I hope so much that things improve for them. What's the current status on the kids? Can a relative take them, even temporarily? Of course I'm also worried about the dog, poor soul.

Please keep us updated -- I think of you often, fingers crossed & dust sent by the boatload.

--- Laurie

 

[junebug17]

I'm really glad they've been found NonieMarie - I'm sure this is all so upsetting, but at least they're in the system now and will hopefully receive the help they need - also glad the kids are safe, I hope there are relatives who can step in and care for them.

 

[Tuckins1]

I saw this video and can't believe that this is the family that we have been talking about!! I am so glad that the children are ok (for now anyways!!). Thank god for you. You really worked hard to try to keep those children safe!

 

[NonieMarie]

I returned from Chicago last night. I was able to see my grandchildren on Tue. They are in a shelter and look to be well taken care of but once a caseworker is assigned they will be moved to foster care and possibly split up. My DIL is at Northwestern and refuses to take any medication. They have petitioned to keep her and I don't know when she will be released. On Monday, my step-son and I spent all day at family court. Both he and I were allowed visitation. He will have to relocate to Chicago and work the program in order to keep his parental rights. He has several court dates set up and told me that if it was a choice between his wife or his kids he would cut her loose. She is not taking responsibility for her actions.
Here is the problem, the state of Illinois will not release the children. I was told that a guardianship could be awarded but the investigator said whom ever takes them will have to work with CPS in their state. It will be a long process and the kids will be in foster care for months. I realize that the children need to be protected but if I was still living in Chicago, the police officer that called DCFS said she would have just called me and been I would have been allowed to just go to the station to pick them up.
Does anyone know a family law attorney, in Chicago, that will give me a phone consult? We have extended family (4 aunts, 25 year old brother and a paternal grandfather) in AZ that will pull together to take care of the kids. I can't take them long term because I have a 2 bedroom house and live in a 55 and older community My step-son got into this and he has to do what it takes to get his parental rights back. All I care about is getting my grandchildren out of Chicago and back to family.

I forgot to add, I was told by more than one person that because this was so high profile DCFS would play hardball. That is not fair to the family members that want the children out of the system. We want to take care of our own!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I was worried about that. I don't anything about family law. Hopefully you can find a good lawyer and maybe they can do a "change of venue" to CA. I imagine since they are residents in CA, it is possible if your step-son can argue he has more stable roots there (home, job, family, etc). I am glad the children are well and you got to see them. Poor kids. Don't worry about your DIL. The courts can go a med order and she will have to take it (even if that means injecting her). How is your step-son's mental health issues?

 

[NonieMarie]

I was worried about that. I don't anything about family law. Hopefully you can find a good lawyer and maybe they can do a "change of venue" to CA. I imagine since they are residents in CA, it is possible if your step-son can argue he has more stable roots there (home, job, family, etc). I am glad the children are well and you got to see them. Poor kids. Don't worry about your DIL. The courts can go a med order and she will have to take it (even if that means injecting her). How is your step-son's mental health issues?

He has some warped views but is able to control his manic behavior. I told him you can believe whatever you want but you need to have a stable home for your children!

 

[FrekeChild]

I used Martindale Hubbell to find this firm (some of the attorneys are AV rated) but my dad also knows some of them and speaks highly of them. I imagine they will be very pricey, but I still think it's worth a call.

http://www.rinellaandrinella.com/

http://www.rinellaandrinella.com/Attorneys/Bernard-B-Rinella.shtml
Don't know if this is good or bad, but:
Institute of Psychiatry Northwestern Memorial Hospital, Member, Advisory Board, 1983 - Present
Institute of Psychiatry Northwestern Memorial Hospital, Vice President, Advisory Board, 1975 - Present

 

[Karl_K]

Im not an attorney and this is not legal advise.
You should get one after you talk to the caseworker if they give you the run around.

1: nothing is going to happen until a caseworker is assigned and investigates.
2: while that is being done get the ducks in a row on who is taking the children.
3: As soon as a caseworker is assigned tell her what you have worked out and ask her the process to achieve that.
4: If you are very lucky and get a good caseworker they will lay out the path for you, If you get a typical dcfs caseworker you will get a lot of attitude. In that case getting a lawyer is your only option.
If the caseworker is nice do everything the case worker tells you to do.
You and the families taking the kids will have a huge amount of hoops to jump through.

My opinion getting a lawyer to contact dcfs before you talk to the caseworker can backfire.
However having one lined up if needed is a good idea.
Even with a lawyer nothing is going to happen until the caseworker is assigned and says so.

Now all this is just my opinion and not legal advise.

 

[Karl_K]

I was told that a guardianship could be awarded but the investigator said whom ever takes them will have to work with CPS in their state.

How that works they are now wards of the state of IL.
In an out of state transfer they transfer the kids to the CPS in the state the receiving family is in.
They become wards of that state.
They then grant limited guardianship to the the receiving family.
Limited in this case because it is not permanent and both IL and the receiving families state will set conditions.
Getting this done is a ton and a half of paperwork.

That is pretty much the limit of my understanding in this area.

 

[TooPatient]

Im not an attorney and this is not legal advise.
You should get one after you talk to the caseworker if they give you the run around.

1: nothing is going to happen until a caseworker is assigned and investigates.
2: while that is being done get the ducks in a row on who is taking the children.
3: As soon as a caseworker is assigned tell her what you have worked out and ask her the process to achieve that.
4: If you are very lucky and get a good caseworker they will lay out the path for you, If you get a typical dcfs caseworker you will get a lot of attitude. In that case getting a lawyer is your only option.
If the caseworker is nice do everything the case worker tells you to do.
You and the families taking the kids will have a huge amount of hoops to jump through.

My opinion getting a lawyer to contact dcfs before you talk to the caseworker can backfire.
However having one lined up if needed is a good idea.
Even with a lawyer nothing is going to happen until the caseworker is assigned and says so.

Now all this is just my opinion and not legal advise.

I mostly agree with Karl. If you have an attorney you work with on an ongoing basis, you should call him/her and get their input as to how soon you need an attorney. Our attorney is very good at letting us know when is too soon to call in an attorney even if it is an area he doesn't specialize in.

I have seen more of the family court system over the last eight years than I ever wanted to. We also got a good look into the CPS system and all of that too. It was UGLY. Anyway, what worked best for us was speaking with our attorney so he was in the loop as to what was happening but not actually announcing him to CPS (so he was advising us but hadn't sent a letter of representation). We were able to do that and get through everything a lot easier than if they went to full out legal battle.
We have spent right about $100,000 in attorney fees alone over those years. There were court dates that cost us $15,000+ but others were more straightforward and only cost $5,000 or so. Be prepared for that.
A good attorney (and NEVER settle for any less than AV rated!) will be upfront with you about costs, what he plans to do, and what you will be expected to do through the process. Ours goes above and beyond -- he actually lets us know what is trivial paperwork that we can sort through to save $$$$ (digging through several boxes of records and flagging certain days took lots of hours but was super easy).

There are some great people in the system (I've heard) but there is a lot of paperwork tangle and red tape. There are also a lot of people who are overly cautious or passive aggressive or something.

So I guess what I'm saying is that you should talk to an attorney about the details but try to work with CPS on your own. Keep in touch with an attorney BEFORE you agree to stuff. Show him documents before you submit. Take copies of everything and either give it to him to have on file or keep a second file ready to bring him if needed.

 

[Karl_K]

Thought of something else.

Anytime you submit forms form a packet with a cover letter and index with removable stick on tabs.
Sort by form then sub-form with support documents after each form.
keep copies of everything.

Make sure the name address and phone number of the submitting party is on the top.
Then the form #'s case # and children's and parent's names is bold big letters.
Then an index

A: form 1 (2 pages)
1: affidavit (2 pages)
B: Form 1A (3 pages)
1: tax return person 1 (2 pages)
2: tax return person 2 (2 pages)

So on and so forth for the entire packet.
Every letter needs a tab. Tab A and B in the above example.
The caseworker needs to be able to find any document in the packet in under 10 seconds.
This will go a long way towards making it go faster and keeping the caseworker happy.

edit: the board ate my formatting. The numbered subcategories should be indented.

 

[NonieMarie]

The kids have been split into 2 homes. I have spoken to the woman that has the boys and am waiting for the girl's place to call me.There is a chance that in court on Tue the judge could allow the kids to be released to their maternal grandfather. He arrived the day I left. The caseworker said the judge had the power to remove them from DCFS and bypass CPS in AZ. I gave her all my info so she could do a background check on me and know that I'm an upstanding citizen. If that happens I would fly back out to help get them to AZ and then we would deal with where they were going to go. In AZ there are 4 aunts in addition to an adult brother. Most are college educated and all have very stable homes. We were advised to file an emergency temp guardianship in AZ before the hearing. We are in the process of doing that now.

 

[JewelFreak]

Oh, great, NonieMarie! Hang in there -- that sounds like the best solution for the children. Wishing you all kinds of success with it. Will keep watching here for news.

--- Laurie

 

[mary poppins]

Glad to hear things are moving in the right direction, NonieMarie. Stay strong. You are doing a great job looking out for the kids.

 

[movie zombie]

good work, Nonie!

 

[Karl_K]

The kids have been split into 2 homes. I have spoken to the woman that has the boys and am waiting for the girl's place to call me.There is a chance that in court on Tue the judge could allow the kids to be released to their maternal grandfather. He arrived the day I left. The caseworker said the judge had the power to remove them from DCFS and bypass CPS in AZ. I gave her all my info so she could do a background check on me and know that I'm an upstanding citizen. If that happens I would fly back out to help get them to AZ and then we would deal with where they were going to go. In AZ there are 4 aunts in addition to an adult brother. Most are college educated and all have very stable homes. We were advised to file an emergency temp guardianship in AZ before the hearing. We are in the process of doing that now.

Awesome news, it sounds you got a good caseworker!

 

[TooPatient]

The kids have been split into 2 homes. I have spoken to the woman that has the boys and am waiting for the girl's place to call me.There is a chance that in court on Tue the judge could allow the kids to be released to their maternal grandfather. He arrived the day I left. The caseworker said the judge had the power to remove them from DCFS and bypass CPS in AZ. I gave her all my info so she could do a background check on me and know that I'm an upstanding citizen. If that happens I would fly back out to help get them to AZ and then we would deal with where they were going to go. In AZ there are 4 aunts in addition to an adult brother. Most are college educated and all have very stable homes. We were advised to file an emergency temp guardianship in AZ before the hearing. We are in the process of doing that now.

Great work!

For the emergency order, are you working with an attorney?

Be aware that there can be little hidden requirements in that order so really watch closely. No staples. Very strict page limits. (to name a couple -- btw, that page limit can REALLY matter if it carries into additional documents later but certain things don't count...)

We also submitted pictures of our house, certificates of completed parenting courses (voluntary -- not a court ordered thing), pictures of the room all ready to go with clothes/bedding/books/etc, and affidavits of people who know us stating that we're normal stable people.

 

[Smith1942]

It sounds as if the children really have a large family so hopefully they should get out of the system and into a place with family. I am so glad that things are progressing, and I really, really hope that the adults get the medical attention that they need. Like the children, they also need attentive care and lots of support.

 

[VRBeauty]

Good job, NM. Dust and prayers outgoing - those kids are lucky to have you on their sides!

 

[dragonfly411]

I don't have advice, but I have tons of prayers to offer, which I have been doing. It sounds like positive steps are being taken. I understand your step son can control his behavior, but I'd worry about a misstep again, and truly hope he can seek and obtain the help he needs to remain stable as well.

 

[chrono]

I have been reading keeping up with your thread but have nothing to contribute because I know nothing about family law, yet I am compelled to chime in now to encourage you to keep positive and hope that you get your grandchilren back soon. Your family has gone through so much, it is heart wrenching. My thoughts are with you and your family. ((Hugs))

 

[NonieMarie]

UPDATE: In Dec of 2013, the parents requested that DCFS not allow any contact with the paternal side of the family. I sent copies of my marriage license and my husband's death certificate along with all my info. My daughters, myself and the maternal grandmother sent information regarding the mental instability of the parents. The supervisor said it would be up to DCFS whether we would have contact. Needless to say, they sided with the parents. They never contacted us. We were told by one of the foster mothers.

The children were given back to the parents in Jan 2015. They immediately moved back to AZ and stayed for about a year. They had sporadic contact with his one full sister. In May they moved back to San Diego. My son bought a small boat and that is where they are living. They still denied contact with my side of the family. At the end of July 2016, they both were arrested. Their downward spiral started the previous week. She started making strange calls to her mother and they all drove, again, to AZ. Her brother and father said it was Chicago all over again and told them to leave. She went on FB ranted and raved, totally nuts. She disowned her side of the family. My son was naked on an LA beach, ranting about the 2 of them being Adam and Eve. When police came, his wife interfered with the arrest. He was tased twice and taken to a hospital, she was arrested on an outstanding AZ warrant. The children are in foster care, again.
He was able, again, to pass the psych evaluation. I spoke to the nurse and she said their hands were tied. The Dr could not find a reason to hold him but acknowledged he has mental issues. She was released from jail and they are trying to get the kids back. They have requested that neither side of the family has access to the kids. For now, CPS is going along with it.

An investigator was assigned, he told me they are saying my son had heat stroke. He has been to the boat. He said he would not want to live there but it has the bare minimum. When interviewed, the kids were hesitant to say anything. They did say they hadn't eaten and were not allowed to sleep. The investigator says that there really isn't much of a case. It makes no difference that there are cases in AZ, San Diego and Chicago. They are all closed and resolved cases. The states do not make it easy share info. He said the only hope is if the judge sees statements from family members. I sent him every contact name I had in Chicago, and every email I sent and received. Both sides of the family sent detailed emails of our personal experiences with the parents. We described all the mental break downs and the neglect of the kids.

The children's attorney is requesting supervised contact with family. She said CPS would call this week but we've heard nothing. The parents have a court date on 9/14. They will get the kids back or the case will be moved to San Diego.
In my statement, I made it very clear that our family believes that if they get the children back, this can end in a tragedy.

 

[VRBeauty]

NonieMarie - I've been wondering what happened with those children. I'm sorry your update is so bleak - from their perspective. How frustrating that those in CPS either cannot or will not use common sense in the protection of these children. I know both the child care system and the mental health system are skewed towards the parental and individual rights of the adults, but so often it seems it's the children who suffer as a result.

Kudos to you and your family for not giving up on these kids. Kudos, and good luck.

 

[distracts]

Oh NonieMarie I have been wondering how this all ended and I'm sad to hear that it hasn't.

 

[AdaBeta27]

Oh geeze. There's a thread on Chronicle of the Horse, Off Topic, "Grandparents raising grandchildren." In post #171 and others, one of the contributors gave someone some advice on how to forcibly terminate someone's parental rights. If CPS places these kids in foster homes, is seems nuts that they wouldn't consider placing them relatives by blood or marriage. But I stay out of child-rearing entirely because I don't have the nerves or the patience for it.

 

[ame]

I simply do not get how none of these caseworkers in any of the three states seem to share info and how no one has decided that the best interest of the children is to get them the hell away from their parents. Either set of grandparents is clearly more suitable and a safer environment for them.