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Did the Senator kill his son in self defense?

kenny

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kenny

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Update from CNN.

"Investigators believe Virginia state Sen. Creigh Deeds was stabbed by his son, who then shot himself in an early morning altercation in their home, state police announced Tuesday."

How tragic! :nono:
 

chrono

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Such a horrible thing to happen to any family. :blackeye: My condolences.
 

iLander

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From the article "Gus Deeds had been given a mental health evaluation under an emergency custody order Monday, but was released because no psychiatric bed could be located across a wide area of western Virginia"

Mental illness is something many, many families deal with every day.

So sad. ::)
 

kenny

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Also reports say the son got an emergency psych evaluation yesterday.
After the evaluation they wanted to hold him longer, but there were no 'beds' available in mental health facilities.

Thank you Ronald Reagan.
He's the pres who basically shut down much of the mental health infrastructure.
Gotta lower taxes for those poor rich voters you know. :roll:

Now many of those folks live under bridges and in prisons … probably sucking more of our tax dollars than if they had gotten mental health care. :nono:

Hopefully this tragedy will serve as a watershed event to resurrect a decent mental health infrastructure in America.
Since a senator was the victim this could really start a fire under Washington D.C..
 

JewelFreak

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Kenny, that's awfully one-sided & simplistic. Great dissatisfaction in those times: people were involuntarily committed & could not get out of mental institutions. Some spent years, when their mental illness didn't disable them; or they were cured; or were never mentally ill at all, simply misdiagnosed; or had Downs or other challenges that were not illness. It was pretty easy to get someone committed & you could NOT check yourself out of a psych facility on your own. Things had reached the point of violation of civil rights.

So the pendulum swung too far the other way, as often happens. It has been apparent for some time that a medium point must be found, for the sake of the ill and for society's sake when someone is dangerous. How to design laws that protect the individual's rights & freedom, and provide hospitalization when needed? Got any ideas?

Let's not vomit more vitriol. It's tiring & inaccurate & does not help anyone understand the real world.

--- Laurie
 

Tacori E-ring

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They should have put him on a med floor with a sitter until a bed opened.


Tragic.
 

Amber St. Clare

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kenny|1384897959|3559460 said:
Also reports say the son got an emergency psych evaluation yesterday.
After the evaluation they wanted to hold him longer, but there were no 'beds' available in mental health facilities.

Thank you Ronald Reagan.
He's the pres who basically shut down much of the mental health infrastructure.
Gotta lower taxes for those poor rich voters you know. :roll:

Now many of those folks live under bridges and in prisons … probably sucking more of our tax dollars than if they had gotten mental health care. :nono:

Hopefully this tragedy will serve as a watershed event to resurrect a decent mental health infrastructure in America.
Since a senator was the victim this could really start a fire under Washington D.
C..


Kenny, if Newtown didn't serve as a watershed event I don't think anything will, short of a presidential assination.
 

kenny

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Amber St. Clare|1384900605|3559497 said:
kenny|1384897959|3559460 said:
Also reports say the son got an emergency psych evaluation yesterday.
After the evaluation they wanted to hold him longer, but there were no 'beds' available in mental health facilities.

Thank you Ronald Reagan.
He's the pres who basically shut down much of the mental health infrastructure.
Gotta lower taxes for those poor rich voters you know. :roll:

Now many of those folks live under bridges and in prisons … probably sucking more of our tax dollars than if they had gotten mental health care. :nono:

Hopefully this tragedy will serve as a watershed event to resurrect a decent mental health infrastructure in America.
Since a senator was the victim this could really start a fire under Washington D.
C..


Kenny, if Newtown didn't serve as a watershed event I don't think anything will, short of a presidential assination.
I'm talking about America's inadequate mental health infrastructure, not gun control.
 

OreoRosies86

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That happened near me. Just awful.
 

Tacori E-ring

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I cannot speak for other states or other mental health units, but I work at two different hospitals and the patients have specific patient rights (posted and given them in written form), RARELY are restraints used (and by law there is a time limit), staff treats patients with respect, voluntary patients can request discharge at anytime (Doctor has 24 hours to release or TDA them if they are still a danger to themselves or others), Patients can deny meds or treatment unless under a court order, involuntary patients have a hearing within 72 hours. So long gone are the days Laurie described.

There needs to be more funding, more beds, more facilities, more staff. They wanted to open a new hospital where I previously lived and the neighbors petitioned and got it shut down. Help them but we don't want anything to do with it attitude. One of the hospitals I work for is probably the largest in my city. Several HUGE hospitals, have a medical college, children's hospital...they have 16 mental health beds. That's it. It's a huge hospital system. I find that heartbreaking.
 

TC1987

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This violence from disgruntled young adults is getting to the ridiculous level. So you're unhappy and life isn't working out for you. That's no excuse to attack other people. Personally, I am not sad when one of these perps either winds up dead by his/her own hand, or the police get tired of fooling with the violent and unstable craycray and take him or her out. Their mothers can weep and wail all over the TV about Oh what a good person, Such a tragic loss, blah, blah. But the public and these people's families, classmates, and neighbors should have the right to move about the country safely without being randomly attacked by violent craycrays. Good riddance to all the dead violent craycrays and other violent criminals who get killed by law enforcement, bystanders, or by their own hand. This dead one is one more that won't be a risk to the nurses, CNAs, and other patients in some mental ward.
 

House Cat

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TC1987|1384905154|3559544 said:
This violence from disgruntled young adults is getting to the ridiculous level. So you're unhappy and life isn't working out for you. That's no excuse to attack other people. Personally, I am not sad when one of these perps either winds up dead by his/her own hand, or the police get tired of fooling with the violent and unstable craycray and take him or her out. Their mothers can weep and wail all over the TV about Oh what a good person, Such a tragic loss, blah, blah. But the public and these people's families, classmates, and neighbors should have the right to move about the country safely without being randomly attacked by violent craycrays. Good riddance to all the dead violent craycrays and other violent criminals who get killed by law enforcement, bystanders, or by their own hand. This dead one is one more that won't be a risk to the nurses, CNAs, and other patients in some mental ward.
Are you kidding me?

"craycrays?"

Your post is vile and uneducated. You are spreading stigma about an illness of the brain, not a poor choice a person is making. It is because of people like you and opinions such as yours that people aren't receiving the help that they need. You are perpetuating the very cycle that you find so unacceptable.

Unbelievable.
 

decodelighted

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TC1987|1384905154|3559544 said:
This violence from disgruntled young adults is getting to the ridiculous level. So you're unhappy and life isn't working out for you. That's no excuse to attack other people. Personally, I am not sad when one of these perps either winds up dead by his/her own hand, or the police get tired of fooling with the violent and unstable craycray and take him or her out. Their mothers can weep and wail all over the TV about Oh what a good person, Such a tragic loss, blah, blah. But the public and these people's families, classmates, and neighbors should have the right to move about the country safely without being randomly attacked by violent craycrays. Good riddance to all the dead violent craycrays and other violent criminals who get killed by law enforcement, bystanders, or by their own hand. This dead one is one more that won't be a risk to the nurses, CNAs, and other patients in some mental ward.
What the f*ckity f*ck are you talking about. My brother is schizophrenic and I am grateful every day that a bed was available when he was finally brought in for diagnosis after FIFTEEN YEARS of suffering. Now he takes meds daily and is once again the thriving, ENTIRELY NON-VIOLENT caring person he was as a teen.

What a callous jerk you are.
 

JewelFreak

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I have noticed that almost all the shootings are young men who have reached the age where they aren't rewarded anymore for just showing up. I've wondered too if that has some relevance. Many are truly mentally ill. Others are only angry about how the world has treated them. In this case, it sounds like the kid had trouble for years -- what kind or why, not yet known.

Tacori -- your description is how things are now -- polar opposite of the situation in the 80s. It has gone so far that, like this Deeds son, it's virtually impossible to commit anyone involuntarily. Look at the Newtown killer -- his mother was desperate to get him into a hospital but could not. Many many have run into the same tragic problem. It does need to be fixed. More beds, private or gov't funded (where's the money coming from? We've spent it all already on other things). Laws must be changed to allow families to get help for troubled members.

--- Laurie
 

Tacori E-ring

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TC1987|1384905154|3559544 said:
This violence from disgruntled young adults is getting to the ridiculous level. So you're unhappy and life isn't working out for you. That's no excuse to attack other people. Personally, I am not sad when one of these perps either winds up dead by his/her own hand, or the police get tired of fooling with the violent and unstable craycray and take him or her out. Their mothers can weep and wail all over the TV about Oh what a good person, Such a tragic loss, blah, blah. But the public and these people's families, classmates, and neighbors should have the right to move about the country safely without being randomly attacked by violent craycrays. Good riddance to all the dead violent craycrays and other violent criminals who get killed by law enforcement, bystanders, or by their own hand. This dead one is one more that won't be a risk to the nurses, CNAs, and other patients in some mental ward.

Your intolerance makes me very sad. "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." Martin Luther King Jr. Clearly this young man had a mental illness. He needed treatment. He needed medication. It IS a tragic loss. People should be able to go to the hospital and get help. Sounds like this family has a valid lawsuit against the county. I hope they sue and win. Maybe then people will see the need for more resources.
 

Tacori E-ring

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Laurie, about half of our patients are there as involuntary status. There is a variety of reasons (danger to self or others, intoxication, or protective placement). The police get involved and some counties are more likely to "chapter" than others. Danger of non-mental health professionals making that decision. They are REQUIRED to find them a bed. Family can also do a "three party petition." You need three people to swear the person is a danger to self or others. Then a judge hears the case.
 

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Tacori E-ring|1384910877|3559603 said:
Laurie, about half of our patients are there as involuntary status. There is a variety of reasons (danger to self or others, intoxication, or protective placement). The police get involved and some counties are more likely to "chapter" than others. Danger of non-mental health professionals making that decision. They are REQUIRED to find them a bed. Family can also do a "three party petition." You need three people to swear the person is a danger to self or others. Then a judge hears the case.

In IL it has gotten so bad that when asked if they want to harm themselves or others and they say no very close to 100% they are just let go. Even if evidence and loved ones say otherwise.
There is a 6 week wait for a mental health bed in IL.
The very worst are supposed to get bumped to the front of the line but there are often no beds for even them.
The state just eliminated 40+ beds in my area earlier this year.
 

monarch64

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Mental health problems don't just mean "he or she is crazy/has issues/etc." In my very basic understanding and experience, there is a very broad spectrum on which these health issues lie. Overgeneralizing anything is just born from ignorance, and going off about it like the above poster (I refuse to type that screen name or quote that member) did does nothing but cause further damage.

I'd like to go crawl into bed and forget I ever read that post, but I won't. I'd rather read other, intelligent posts from PS members who actually have brains. And experience/degrees/knowledge about the topic at hand. ETA: I'd like to actually LEARN something here. But I'm one of those poor souls with a relatively open mind and heart.
 

kenny

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Tacori E-ring|1384910877|3559603 said:
The police get involved and some counties are more likely to "chapter" than others.

Please, what does this use of the term 'chapter' mean?
 

TooPatient

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JewelFreak|1384899871|3559489 said:
Kenny, that's awfully one-sided & simplistic. Great dissatisfaction in those times: people were involuntarily committed & could not get out of mental institutions. Some spent years, when their mental illness didn't disable them; or they were cured; or were never mentally ill at all, simply misdiagnosed; or had Downs or other challenges that were not illness. It was pretty easy to get someone committed & you could NOT check yourself out of a psych facility on your own. Things had reached the point of violation of civil rights.

So the pendulum swung too far the other way, as often happens. It has been apparent for some time that a medium point must be found, for the sake of the ill and for society's sake when someone is dangerous. How to design laws that protect the individual's rights & freedom, and provide hospitalization when needed? Got any ideas?

Let's not vomit more vitriol. It's tiring & inaccurate & does not help anyone understand the real world.

--- Laurie

It was a horrible time. I've seen movies (Changeling was amazing!) and documentaries about the time when it was easy to be committed and next to impossible to get out. That was NOT a good time :errrr:

We do need to find that middle ground. Mental care facilities and also drug/alcohol facilities just don't have enough resources to help people who need help. People in serious need don't have access to care -- in a lot of cases regardless of a family's willingness to pay so it isn't just "free" care that is in shortage -- and this is leading to other substantial issues. Especially in the case of people who are mentally ill, this is not something they have chosen. Resources need to be made available (preferably through local communities and donations, but also prioritized better in the existing government budget) so that people in need of assistance are not turned away.
 

TC1987

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Tacori E-ring|1384910427|3559598 said:
Your intolerance makes me very sad. "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." Martin Luther King Jr. Clearly this young man had a mental illness. He needed treatment. He needed medication. It IS a tragic loss. People should be able to go to the hospital and get help. Sounds like this family has a valid lawsuit against the county. I hope they sue and win. Maybe then people will see the need for more resources.

I am intolerant as Hades and no, it's not necessarily a tragic loss if turns out that the kid has a history. I completely lack compassion for the violent mentally ill. Sure, he had "a mental illness." So what. My point is that the violence of a malevolent few should not be permitted to impact the multitudes of us FUNCTIONAL AND PEACEFUL AND PRODUCTIVE PEOPLE. If the VIOLENT mentally ill get out of line and get killed, or they off themselves, OR they make a miracle turnaround and are cures, I see any of those outcomes as as good for the rest of us. This kid attacked his father with a knife. Is that acceptable to you, to be attached by a knife? You can put these people on meds and control them temporarily, but there's no guarantee that they will stay controlled on meds without someone babysitting them 24/7,and that is a huge problem. So, I am okay with it if they depart.

I have a brother and SIL who adopted a boy whose mother had given him up for adoption. He is a true worthless POS, "mentally ill." The full extent of this kid's "mental illness" history was not divulged. Once while he was staying a week with my parents, he broke out their garage window and they caught him trying to start a fire behind the garage, where they keep their antique cars. The kid is a pathological liar, he threatened my SIL with a knife, he wrecked their possessions. He broke into a house and was arrested. But the kicker was my SIL picked him up at school one day, and driving down the expressway in heavy traffic, he seized the wheel and ran the car across the median head-on into opposing traffic! She managed to veer the car into a guardrail and wreck it before they hit another vehicle. At the hospital, the kid unabashedly told anyone who'd listen that he did it to kill my SIL. So, he landed in jail because he's 18. Then he got out, took off, broke into someone's condo and set the place on fire. He has a Facebook full of bloody gore pics of apparently-murdered women now.

Over a dozen years of treatment and medications and therapy and he's still a worthless and dangerous POS. My brother and SIL live in fear that he may come after them. The police are very familiar with him now. Sorry, but there is no reason to mourn the death of someone who tries to take another's life. And it just isn't practical to be "understanding." If the mental illness problem doesn't have a fast solution, it usually has NO solution.
 

JewelFreak

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Well put, TP. Exactly. Each state handles this issue differently; Tacori, you live in a more enlightened one. In most states where facilities are available & involuntary commitment is possible, the patient still can only be held for a short time, like 72 hrs. -- not long enough even for a diagnosis in some cases. IIRC, the Newtown kid's family ran into that limitation at one point.

Drugs & alcohol are major culprits in violent crimes. One intractable problem: if the addict does not hate himself, what his life has become, so much that he will do anything, anything, to change it, no rehab works. Sentence an addict to rehab or 12-Step attendance 100 times & he will never stay clean & sober unless he desires it more than anything in life. There are no exceptions.

Organic mental illness is one thing, addiction another altogether.

--- Laurie
 

TC1987

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House Cat|1384906549|3559562 said:
Are you kidding me?

"craycrays?"

Your post is vile and uneducated. You are spreading stigma about an illness of the brain, not a poor choice a person is making. It is because of people like you and opinions such as yours that people aren't receiving the help that they need. You are perpetuating the very cycle that you find so unacceptable.

Unbelievable.

No, I am not kidding. Read any ER nursing blog or ER physician's blog, and you will read terms like "craycray," "frequent flier," "seeker," etc. Sorry that the jargon confused you. Do you have any actual experience with the actual enormous stress, safety risk, expense, and/or futility of trying to deal with the incurables? I do, and that is why I take the position that I stated. I am sorry that you disagree, but we must agree to disagree on the issue of whether or not this boy's death is a tragedy or not. It's certainly a tragedy that he attacked another person with a knife.


I'm done with this topic now. bye bye
 

Circe

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There are incurable conditions out there that need lifetime monitoring. I emphasize the term "lifetime," because acting like it's Darwinism if these people hurt themselves veers dangerously close to eugenics. The whole point of a civilized society is to provide assistance across the board to best cover and patch every individual's weakness for the sake of a stronger whole.

As for the risk of their hurting other people ... I think it's dangerous to automatically say it's mental illness that causes all of these incidents. It's a bit of a mind**** to come to terms with the idea that some people deliberately hurt others while being in full possession of their faculties, but they do. The world is full of harmless people suffering - and dealing with! - schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, you name it. It's also full of people like Ariel Castro (attempted diagnosis: psychopathy), Yocelyn Ortega (attempted diagnosis range from psychotic break to negative drug reaction), Eric Harris (attempted diagnosis: psychopathy) and Dylan Klebold (attempted diagnosis: depression). Keep in mind none of these people was actually diagnosed before their crimes, much less treated. While it's nice to imagine a world where we make mental health checkups as de rigeur as physicals and enforce treatment in dangerous cases ... c'mon, we can't enforce routine vaccination to maintain herd immunity or successfully prevent the transmission of fatal communicable diseases. Finding a way to keep people attending therapy seems ... unlikely.

Upthread, somebody reacted sharply to the mention of gun control as an issue. I am sorry, but I don't think the two can be separated. I find it tragic that Creigh Deeds was murdered by his son. I find it tragic that Gus Deeds took his own life. But I am SO GRATEFUL that he went that route instead of, say, taking the gun down to the nearest crowd of people and opening fire, which is what a lot of his counterparts have done.

My problem with guns isn't the inadequate screening that occasionally lets them into the hands of emotionally unstable people - some people don't start out unstable and undergo that unhealthy transition while already in possession, others steal theirs, whatever. My problem is that modern guns are just too damned effective. Flintlocks like the founders intended? GREAT. Really only useful for single-shot self-defense, or, in a worst-case scenario, the murder of one or two people. Anything with rapid-fire capacity that can hold multiple rounds? Too much potential for mass tragedy. I didn't believe that until Sandy Hook: eye-witness acounts (and the corollary case of the attempted mass-murderer in China who, armed with a knife, achieved no casualties) changed my mind.
 

House Cat

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TC1987|1384953961|3559785 said:
House Cat|1384906549|3559562 said:
Are you kidding me?

"craycrays?"

Your post is vile and uneducated. You are spreading stigma about an illness of the brain, not a poor choice a person is making. It is because of people like you and opinions such as yours that people aren't receiving the help that they need. You are perpetuating the very cycle that you find so unacceptable.

Unbelievable.

No, I am not kidding. Read any ER nursing blog or ER physician's blog, and you will read terms like "craycray," "frequent flier," "seeker," etc. Sorry that the jargon confused you. Do you have any actual experience with the actual enormous stress, safety risk, expense, and/or futility of trying to deal with the incurables? I do, and that is why I take the position that I stated. I am sorry that you disagree, but we must agree to disagree on the issue of whether or not this boy's death is a tragedy or not. It's certainly a tragedy that he attacked another person with a knife.


I'm done with this topic now. bye bye
Yes, I think it is best that you are leaving this topic. Thank you.
 

TooPatient

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JewelFreak|1384953272|3559780 said:
Well put, TP. Exactly. Each state handles this issue differently; Tacori, you live in a more enlightened one. In most states where facilities are available & involuntary commitment is possible, the patient still can only be held for a short time, like 72 hrs. -- not long enough even for a diagnosis in some cases. IIRC, the Newtown kid's family ran into that limitation at one point.

Drugs & alcohol are major culprits in violent crimes. One intractable problem: if the addict does not hate himself, what his life has become, so much that he will do anything, anything, to change it, no rehab works. Sentence an addict to rehab or 12-Step attendance 100 times & he will never stay clean & sober unless he desires it more than anything in life. There are no exceptions.
Organic mental illness is one thing, addiction another altogether.

--- Laurie


This is a very important point. I have seen enough through my own family to believe that part of the shortage is caused by trying to force an addict to recover.

One of my uncles spent multiple stays in a facility -- he tried to kill himself by crashing a car (three separate totaled cars).

My father spent time in prison. He DID quit drinking while he was there and while on probation. After that? Right back to it. He was put back into his same home with his same live-in GF with his same group of friends.

One of my uncles died of cirrhosis after YEARS of pain, depression, and drinking. He couldn't bring himself to stop drinking because all he had waiting for him was pain (oh, and all of his friends who liked to drink).

Another uncle died just six weeks ago. He had been in and out of treatment centers for the last years. He watched his brother die (the uncle with cirrhosis) a miserable death. His family drove him 5 hours to inpatient treatment because no one local had room for him. Each and every time, he decided to leave. He went back to his trailer and all his drinking buddies. He even showed up drunk to his own brother's funeral! (at 2pm...)

I could go on :nono:
None of them want(ed) to change. They were okay with a life of addiction. No matter how much we wanted them to get better, it didn't matter.


People who genuinely don't want to change (speaking only of drug/alcohol problems) can't be made to. I have watched a person quit drinking for over a year and thrive! He was a much happier person who seemed to genuinely enjoy life and his family. It didn't matter though. Even if you can get a person "better" they can't resist going back again when you drop them back into their same home (probably with fully stocked alcohol cupboard) with their same friends. The sort of people who do this are NOT above teasing a person who has managed to quit or pouring them a drink and spending an evening telling them that "just one won't hurt!"



Given that, I do agree that there is a substantial difference between those with mental illness and drug/alcohol problems. I see one (mental illness) as something that is much easier to approach and with a very good chance at making positive changes for individuals (and their families and communities).
 

Tacori E-ring

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kenny|1384928012|3559728 said:
Tacori E-ring|1384910877|3559603 said:
The police get involved and some counties are more likely to "chapter" than others.

Please, what does this use of the term 'chapter' mean?

Chapter is basically an involuntary commitment. I am in WI (so the numbers differ) but here a *Chapter 51.15* means harm to self or others. They will have a hearing within 72 hours not including weekends and holidays. It is NOT a criminal case. They are not in trouble with the law. They are, however, picked up by a special company and handcuffed to the court house. In my other job, it is an inner city hospital so they have a courtroom in the lobby (for one county) and skype (for another county). Every county holds their own hearings so it depends on where you live. Many times the patients will come back after the hearing. The doctor and officer will testify and give their recommendations. Then the next step is a final hearing that takes place 2 weeks after the first. Often times the doctor will feel the patient is ready to discharge so then we call the county and the patient signs a "Settlement agreement" saying that they will take all their meds, go to all their appointments, no drugs, no alcohol, etc and usually this is a 6 month agreement. During that 6 months, if the patient violates one of the stipulations, they are brought back to the hospital. It is not bullet proof or a perfect system, but then the person gets "followed" by the county and often times get a case worker. Once they are in the "system" we can offer them more resources and supervision. *Chapter 51.35* means intoxication. Anyone can get this. If they are intoxicated and disruptive/violent/making threats. They are released once they are sober/medically stable. No court date. *Chapter 51.67* means protective placement. Always older folks that need nursing homes. Dementia can be pretty scary and it is not unusual for folks to become violent. This makes placement VERY difficult.

I just saw the O*Net listed my job as the second most stressful job in America. Not sure if that is true but it is stressful. I love it though. I love seeing people get better. For the record, I HAVE seen people get better. Even violent people. Just because they are violent/erratic off their meds does NOT mean they are like this at their "baseline" (which means as good as they get). We are all trained in self-defense and protect ourselves, as well as other patients, as much as possible. Security gets called to the medical floors too! Sick people get irritated. Even with no mental illness component. The only time I ever had to call security at my last job (inpatient rehab) was on a family member! Not the patient.

I agree many drugs, especially the snythetics (bath salts & K2 spice) can create violence either as a result of the drug or attempting to get the drug. However, I just want to note that there are very few addicts/alcoholics that do not have an underlying mental illness. They are self-medicating. What came first the chicken or the egg? Ideally these folks could have both parts treated at the same time. Unfortunately there are very few duel diagnosis facilities.

I think there is so much hope for people who struggle with mental illness and substance abuse. I don't believe in giving up on people especially those who want help and are ready to change. One of the things I do in my job is group therapy. These folks have so much shame, so much guilt, so much embarrassment because there are so many people who don't have a clue about what they are going through on a daily basis. I cannot even imagine. Until that stigma is gone (and I don't see that happening anytime soon) I don't see much changing.
 

Tacori E-ring

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Aug 15, 2005
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20,041
Karl_K|1384920452|3559691 said:
Tacori E-ring|1384910877|3559603 said:
Laurie, about half of our patients are there as involuntary status. There is a variety of reasons (danger to self or others, intoxication, or protective placement). The police get involved and some counties are more likely to "chapter" than others. Danger of non-mental health professionals making that decision. They are REQUIRED to find them a bed. Family can also do a "three party petition." You need three people to swear the person is a danger to self or others. Then a judge hears the case.

In IL it has gotten so bad that when asked if they want to harm themselves or others and they say no very close to 100% they are just let go. Even if evidence and loved ones say otherwise.
There is a 6 week wait for a mental health bed in IL.
The very worst are supposed to get bumped to the front of the line but there are often no beds for even them.
The state just eliminated 40+ beds in my area earlier this year.

That is horrible Karl. 6 week wait? They should come over to us. Not that we don't go on a waiting list too but never that long! Worse case the patient goes to a medical floor with a sitter. Most folks wouldn't "make it" if they had to wait 6 weeks. At least not the ones I see.
 

JewelFreak

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
7,768
Tacori, you are a blessing to the people you deal with. I'm sure you've made a huge difference to many of their lives. The system there sounds wonderfully enlightened, though I know nothing works perfectly all the time.

Tacori E-ring said:
I just want to note that there are very few addicts/alcoholics that do not have an underlying mental illness. They are self-medicating. What came first the chicken or the egg? Ideally these folks could have both parts treated at the same time. Unfortunately there are very few dual diagnosis facilities.

Treating one thing does not fix the other, as I'm sure you know from experience. So do I. Put depression, bi-polar, etc., into remission, & the addiction remains. It's physical AND learned behavior as a way to deal with problems. Obviously, if someone feels better they are more able to deal with getting sober and/or clean, but profound desire must be present.

TP tells it sadly & well -- to stay off drugs or booze, everything must change: friends, hang-out places, habits of all varieties, and most of all one's way of looking at life & the world and finding the humility to ask for help. That's why relatively few of all addicts make it to a lifetime of sobriety -- it takes daily, hourly dedication forever. An addict must hate his or her self & circumstances so desperately that change appears as a lifeline & the only choice. That is not achieved by force, unfortunately. It comes only from deep within.

--- Laurie
 
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