Can you tell me anything about this tourmaline?

[kgizo]

I got this years ago and love the band of red in the middle of the gem. I've looked to find something similar, but haven't. Does the color banding give any indication of where it might be from? Thanks.

 

[cm366]

Very pretty! I've seen blue tourmalines with red caps, and vice versa, from mines in California and Brazil - I don't know that they're specific to any particular location in the way that, say, genuine ametrine generally is. I've always enjoyed Pala's pic of a Himalaya tourmaline, though...

 

[Indylady]

Very cool! I wish I could add more, but I am not so familiar with bi-color tourm!

 

[T L]

Hmmm, is the color really a violet?

You don't see violet tourmaline very often, and if you do, it normally doesn't have a band in it. All the violet tourmaline that I know of comes from Mozambique.

I suspect it might be fluorite. The luster, which looks waxy, seems to be like fluorite as well.

I've only seen green tourmaline with red caps, and that's known in the trade as "watermelon tourmaline." I've never seen violet or blue tourmaline with reddish purple banding, or caps.

Here's a fluorite crystal with similar coloring to your piece. Fluorite comes from all over the world.

 

[ilovegemstones]

That is so beautiful! How do you wear it? A neck shot would be so great! It is really unique. I have a watermelon tourmaline ring with blue in the centre but not so much blue. Would it be alright to post a picture of it here in this thread?

 

[chrono]

It's lovely and the red banding is very distinct and sharp. I've never seen a blue tourmaline with red banding; lots of green and pink, blue and green, pink and colourless, and brown and green. Yours is also incredibly clean.

 

[kgizo]

Thank you all for the responses, they are incredibly helpful. It sounds like this is something I should get looked at to confirm if it even is tourmaline based on TL, Chrono and CM366 not seeing a red band in the middle elsewhere. At least it explains why I haven't seen a similar color combo over the years. I've kept an eye out hoping I'd see something that would give me a guesstimate about provenance.

I took a pic on a white background in case that makes it clearer to you all if it is blue or violet as I struggle with the blue color family. All new pics are iPhone pics as my camera battery died yesterday. Chrono, is it incredibly clean for a tourmaline? I ask bc I know it is different for colored stones. I took a pic of the back which I think better shows the inclusions I see in RL.

Ilovegemstones, yes! Please feel free to post your ring! I included a pic of me wearing and a side pic of the bail. It is on a hinge which is nice bc I can wear any width of chain or cord with it.

 

[chrono]

I think CM wrote that he has seen blue tourmaline with red caps, so I'm curious as to his opinion about this one. Tourmalines are generally clean but bicolours are generally not. It's just the way it grows. The banding looks so perfect too (it is very possible to find naturally sharp, straight and distinct banding in tourmaline). I have no idea what it is so I could be wrong but this is just what I have seen and learned about tourmalines. Whatever it is, it is very unique and pretty.

www.africagems.com/bicoto.html
www.atggems.com/photos_tourmaline-Bicolors.htm

 

[T L]

I think CM wrote that he has seen blue tourmaline with red caps, so I'm curious as to his opinion about this one. Tourmalines are generally clean but bicolours are generally not. It's just the way it grows. The banding looks so perfect too (it is very possible to find naturally sharp, straight and distinct banding in tourmaline). I have no idea what it is so I could be wrong but this is just what I have seen and learned about tourmalines. Whatever it is, it is very unique and pretty.

www.africagems.com/bicoto.html
www.atggems.com/photos_tourmaline-Bicolors.html

Chono,
Your second link wasn't working, I think I fixed it.

http://www.atggems.com/Photos_Tourmaline-Bicolors.htm

I've seen blue tourmaline that turns more green at the end, but never ever a violet blue turn to a red. Your stone appears to be a greyish violet color, that is extremely rare in tourmaline, and so far, to my knowledge, only occurs in Mozambique, and I have never seen any bicolor tourmaline of that variation. Computer monitors vary though, and I'm only going by your photos. I'm not sure how accurate the color in your photos are.

 

[emmmme]

Found this randomly in my meanderings across eBay...

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/4-78-ct-Spec...m-Watermelon-Tourmaline-Natural-/271304190006

It's not clean but the translucency is more apparent in the video. It says it's from Mozambique. (I don't know this seller's reputation at all.)

 

[T L]

Found this randomly in my meanderings across eBay...

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/4-78-ct-Spec...m-Watermelon-Tourmaline-Natural-/271304190006

It's not clean but the translucency is more apparent in the video. It says it's from Mozambique. (I don't know this seller's reputation at all.)

I have one just like that. To me one cap looks green, and of course the other is red. The OP's, in her pictures to me, is a greyish violet with a reddish band.

 

[emmmme]

Found this randomly in my meanderings across eBay...

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/4-78-ct-Spec...m-Watermelon-Tourmaline-Natural-/271304190006

It's not clean but the translucency is more apparent in the video. It says it's from Mozambique. (I don't know this seller's reputation at all.)

I have one just like that. To me one cap looks green, and of course the other is red. The OP's, in her pictures to me, is a greyish violet with a reddish band.

Interesting - the one side of the tourmaline in the eBay link looks greyish blue/violet to me, much like the OP's pendant. I know it says "watermelon tourmaline" but it doesn't look green at all on my monitor!

 

[T L]

Found this randomly in my meanderings across eBay...

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/4-78-ct-Spec...m-Watermelon-Tourmaline-Natural-/271304190006

It's not clean but the translucency is more apparent in the video. It says it's from Mozambique. (I don't know this seller's reputation at all.)

I have one just like that. To me one cap looks green, and of course the other is red. The OP's, in her pictures to me, is a greyish violet with a reddish band.

Interesting - the one side of the tourmaline in the eBay link looks greyish blue/violet to me, much like the OP's pendant. I know it says "watermelon tourmaline" but it doesn't look green at all on my monitor!

Interesting, because it doesn't look violet to me at all.

BTW, here is a real violet tourmaline.



These violet tourmalines hail from Mozambique and are often heated to produce a turquoise blue color. They're very rare because so far, I think they've only come from one location, and they're usually heated. I have never ever seen one of these with a red band.

 

[emmmme]

I don't see violet, you're right. But it's definitely a grey-blue. Then again, I don't see too much violet in the OP's pendant - it seems more grey-blue to me as well!

 

[T L]

I don't see violet, you're right. But it's definitely a grey-blue. Then again, I don't see too much violet in the OP's pendant - it seems more grey-blue to me as well!

I'm looking at the top photo the OP posted.



Here's the violet tourmaline I posted.



While the pendant is probably slightly more blue, I see a hint of purple in there (making it a violet).

In any case, while more of a pure blue tourmaline does exist (it's called indicolite), it's often pretty dark in tone, and again, I've never seen red banding in indicolite either. I'm not saying it can't happen, but in my over 25+ years of gemstone collecting, I've never seen it, nor in books. If someone has an example of indicolite with a red band, then please post it. The red banding in tourmaline often has a greenish blue bicolor portion to it, or more of a green color, hence the reason its called watermelon tourmaline.

 

[cm366]

I've seen blue tourmalines with red caps, but they were all specimens, not facet grade material. It's definitely possible for the two to co-exist, though, as a quick Google search reveals...

 

[cm366]

A few more pics... none of these stones are as clean as the OP's, but as Chrono pointed out bicolours are rarely as clear as other elbaite, and reds and blues are typically more included than other shades of tourmaline in any case. It's interesting, though, because I'd almost swear I'd seen pics of the OP's stone before. Is it from Master Cut Gems, by any chance?

 

[chrono]

CM,
Thanks for the pictures. Any luck finding an example with banding? I think caps are far more common than banding.

 

[T L]

I've seen blue tourmalines with red caps, but they were all specimens, not facet grade material. It's definitely possible for the two to co-exist, though, as a quick Google search reveals...

Those don't look violet blue to me on my monitor though. They look greenish blue to me.

Oh well, monitors vary, and the OP can't really tell what the real color is, so I suspect she should take it to a gemologist that can truly verify what it is.

 

[LD]

Here's one of mine (the Vendor's photo). It is a blueish green and not violet but it does have the reddish end!

I've not seen a violet/red tourmaline which makes me hesitate and wonder if it is one. The fact it's quite clean and the straight lines also make me pause for thought but having said that, nature produces some wonderful things so it's worth investigating.

 

[ilovegemstones]

Here is my tourmaline ring from janishjewels on etsy. It has a bit of a cat's eye effect. I do see violet in your pendant unlike the blue to green here.

 

[chrono]

So many of you CSers have been holding back from posting pictures of these beauties.

ilovegemstones,
That's a unique and beautiful ring. I like the graduation of colouration.

 

[ilovegemstones]

Thanks Chrono! I knew I had to have it when I saw it. The jeweller also said she had never seen a tourmaline like it. Maybe I will post a thread of some of my rings!

 

[cm366]

CM,
Thanks for the pictures. Any luck finding an example with banding? I think caps are far more common than banding.

Nope, sorry - I think you're right, it would be much less common to find banding (in any colour) than a cap, because banding requires the conditions that allow the crystal to grow with a particular colour to change and then be restored, where the cap only requires a change. I've very rarely seen tourmaline specimens with clean banding and a return to the original colour.

 

[minousbijoux]

Banding may indeed be a different kettle of fish, but CM, I think you win the prize for posting the closest examples (they appear very similar in color to the OP's on my monitor) and actually being familiar with them.

 

[kgizo]

I appreciate the explanation about bicolor clarity, and the pics and links. I've enjoyed reading up on it.

CM, I bought it as a finished piece about 7-8 yrs ago so I don't know who did the cutting.

Ilovegemstones, that is a fabulous ring! If it was mine I would constantly be touching it because it looks like it would turn right into water. The color is such a pretty shade of blue and it looks great on you. Please do post some more.

All, for getting it tested is it something any GG can do, or should I specifically look for someone who has done the colored stone course? Is there a way to search for someone who has completed the colored stone course? I'm north of Dallas if anyone has a recommendation in this area.

Thanks again for all of your help!

 

[cm366]

kgizo, you might be able to do some simple tests yourself - if you've got a magnifying glass or just good vision, try looking for little chips along the edges of the facets. Fluorite is very soft and fractures easily relative to tourmaline, and even in a pendant it's not usually considered durable enough for jewelry. Tourmaline might also have little chips or nicks, but if it's really minimally damaged after 7-8 years of wear then that's a good hint that it's not fluorite.

Lots of fluorite is also fluorescent under UV light, where tourmaline is rarely fluorescent. If you can get hold of a UV bulb, just turn down the lights and light up the stone - if it glows, that's suggestive.

Aside from those, any appraiser with testing equipment should be able to differentiate them - the refractive index is very different. There are several frequent posters from the Dallas area, so hopefully one will chime in - if no-one does, I'd re-post on RockyTalky, the diamond forum, which the appraisers seem to post on more frequently.


Thanks MB! There sure are some pretty ones out there...

 

[kgizo]

Thanks for the info, CM. I just checked with a 15X loupe and see no abrasions along the facets. There is a scratch near the edge that looks like it might have happened during setting, and I can't see it without the loupe. With the loupe the top part looks blue and the bottom part more violet, so you guys were right on there. Also, no flouresence. So I'm thinking it is a tourmaline, just an unusual one.

When I pulled it out to check I remembered I have a moonstone from the same artist. He said the stone was from Sri Lanka and it has a beautiful blue flash. The little stones are diamonds which I am sure are treated. I bought it probably 10 yrs ago so don't have the paperwork anymore. It would go perfectly with Ilovegemstones' ring so maybe we can work out a timeshare.

 

[pearlsngems]

I have this 2.86 carat faceted bicolor blue/pink tourmaline that I bought from a reliable dealer at the East Coat Gem, Mineral and Fossil show a few years ago; it is not high quality but I paid little for it and just like to look at it on my computer desk:
(photo taken with daylight lamp; I may be able to do better in actual daylight.)

There are some excellent photos of bicolor blue and pink tourmaline crystals in the California Pegmatites issue of The Mineralogical Record, Sept/Oct. 2002, the most spectacular being "The Candelabra", which is at the Smithsonian. (Google images of this.)

Trying again, this time photographing the front of the stone.