location, location, location...

[dnilson]

Which stone would you purchase? An untreated ruby from Burma, pigeon's blood red, clarity VS. Or an untreated ruby from somewhere else, pigeon's blood red, clarity flawless!!! Also, which are the best labs for gemstones...other than GIA? Has anyone heard of UGL? How reputable are they? Lastly, does GIA use the term "pigeon's blood red", or do they just say "red"? Thanks in advance!

 

[minousbijoux]

dnilson, why don't you just buy what you like? That way you really can't go wrong...

 

[dnilson]

dnilson, why don't you just buy what you like? That way you really can't go wrong...

To be honest, they're both equally beautiful, roughly the same size and there isn't much difference in price. I just wondered if a burmese ruby would be more valuable than one from somewhere else. The only difference is clarity (the one from burma is VS1 and the other one is graded flawless), but from the pictures, you really can't tell the difference. The bigger issue is that they've both been graded by UGL. The burmese ruby has also been graded by GIA, but they don't use the term "pigeon's blood red", like the UGL report does. They just say it's "red". Which is why I wondered whether GIA even uses the term "pigeon's blood red". I also wondered how reputable UGL is. Anyone know anything about them? I'll try to post pics.

 

[dnilson]

The other question I had was this...is heat treatment as accepted a treatment in rubies and sapphires as oil is in emeralds?

 

[minousbijoux]

Hmmm. A few comments. First, you may want to reread this thread, which is pinned at the top of the CS page: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/[/URL]

For colored stones, clarity doesn't work the same as for diamonds. What is important for almost all colored stones is that the stone is eye clean, which is defined differently by different vendors. I consider stones to be eye clean if, when looking at them from a distance of 8-10" with the naked eye, one cannot see flaws or inclusions. This might mean that upon close scrutiny, like putting it up close to your face, you can make out inclusions. It also means that under a loupe, you'd see stuff. But since the majority of us only care about stones being eye clean, unless its a "mind clean" thing with you, then I would not bother to get the IF stone, but get the one, all things being equal, with the better cut and color. Assuming everything else is the same, then, of course, I would likely get the Burmese stone, just because of the origin.

As for labs, AGL is considered the best for colored stones. I am not familiar with UGL, or if I am I've forgotten (easy to do for me), so I would do a search here on PS for it. GIA is also held in high regard. Treatment of corundum runs the gambit from simple heat to such invasive treatments that they can border on changing the chemical structure of the stone. A lab report from either AGL or GIA is capable of identifying the level of treatments, if any, a stone has had; I do not know whether UGL is equipped to identify such treatments.

 

[eastjavaman]

//dnilson, why don't you just buy what you LIKE? That way you really can't go wrong...

ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, with the better cut and color. Assuming everything else is the same, then, of course, I would likely get the Burmese stone, just because of the ORIGIN.
//

 

[aaronl]

The burmese ruby has also been graded by GIA, but they don't use the term "pigeon's blood red", like the UGL report does. They just say it's "red". Which is why I wondered whether GIA even uses the term "pigeon's blood red". I also wondered how reputable UGL is. Anyone know anything about them? I'll try to post pics.

There are a number of threads in the forum about UGL, and they make me wary of relying on a UGL report.

There's no standard definition of "pigeon's blood" red, and there's an article on the R.W. Wise website describing the variation that can occur between gems given that grade of color by GRS. It gets worse from there - many vendors appear to believe that pigeons bleed in colors including pink, purple, orange and brown.

 

[chrono]

You are understandably very excited but I think you need to slow down to digest a few very important considerations first:

1. Origin does affect price but doesn't necessarily affect beauty. There are two main Burmese mine origin; Mogok and Mong Hsu, with the former generally producing much better quality than the latter. Therefore just because it says Burmese doesn't automatically mean quality. There are some Thai, Vietnamese, Tanzanian, etc ruby that are of better quality.

2. Although clarity matters to an extent, if it is flawless, I take it with a grain of salt. The best and nicest stones are very rarely flawless. This is partly why the clarity standard for coloured stones is eye clean from a distance of 6" to 12", without using a loupe.

3. I would never buy anything with a UGL report. Although it is a common commercial lab report, when buying serious gems, GIA, AGL, SSEF, Gubelin and a few others are far more reputable and consistent.

4. Forget pigeon's blood red; it doesn't tell much and its definition varies from lab to lab.

5. Is the stone treated or untreated? If heated, what is the level of heating / flux healing? This has a HUGE impact of value and pricing for rubies, in addition to the colour quality.