What's up with the twenty somethings??

[wildcat03]

I always read anything that starts with a sentiment like, "Back in my day" with a spoonful of salt.

Here's why. Back in your day you could:
- make a living that would support a family of 3-4 with a high school education and a few years in the workforce. It wasn't fancy, but it was a living.
- Retire after 35-40 years at the same company with a pension plan, not having to worry that the home you'd invested in would actually be a part of your financial investment for retirement
- Could make that living on less than 40 hours a week (http://www.infowars.com/americans-are-literally-being-worked-to-death/)
- Buy a house and feel fairly certain that your job wouldn't be transferred in 6 months or a year to somewhere clear across the country. In other words, resale was a distant plan, not something that might need to happen on short notice.

Life's different now. SOmetimes better, sometimes worse. We all are just doing the best we can with what we've been handed.

 

[Rhea]

I always see the housing prices in London as astronomical, so haven't previously understood why it was never in the rankings of most expensive cities in the world (while Perth regularly fluctuates between about 8-11). Then I found this: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/rankings_current.jsp

It's really interesting. It looks like rent for London is about 17% higher than Perth, but the indexed cost of living is 18% lower. Somehow that results in Perth being ranked 10th and London being 29th - anyone understand that?

I guess what I want to understand is if that then makes it easier to save for a house? Housing prices are more, but theoretically Londoners should be able to save easier than Perthians. Is it a case that Perth is a relatively lifeless city in comparison, so those in London spend more on social events and outings? I'm trying to equate how it is harder to buy a property in a city with a 20% lower cost of living than where I am, when we can comfortably do it. It's puzzling.

That is confusing! I don't know either. We spend very very little on anything not directly related to rent and utilities. We don't have much of a life besides watching TV in the evening or going for a walk. We don't eat out, buy clothes, or generally take part in an activities, see shows, or go anywhere. For us it doesn't make it easier to save for a house. So much money is spent on rent and utilities that saving for a deposit takes years and years. We've been working on it for 8 years and only have 10% down. We still need the other 10% down, stamp duty, and any other fees. The house prices seem to keep moving up with every penny we save. I saw on the news the other week that the average age for a first time home buyer in London was 37 and that most people can't afford to move out of their parents house until they're in their very early 30's. For a lot of people that could be lifestyle, but I don't think it's the case with us.

 

[JewelFreak]

One BIG element in the difficulty is the taxes you pay. I know they are high in Oz, but bet they're higher in the UK. Income tax, VAT (20%, right?) & rates, stamp duties as you mention, on & on. Since VAT is not broken out separately, people are not aware when they buy what a huge increase it represents in the cost of everything. Makes it easy for gov'ts to slip in raises without driving voters crazy. Anyway, all this confiscation of your wealth makes it hard to save.

Rhea, to answer your question, we don't have kids, to our regret. If we had, it would've changed the entire calculation. I feel strongly that: 1) it is profoundly important for parents to be there for their kids -- physically and emotionally. One of the contributors to the illnesses in present society is that children are more or less left to bring each other up because parents are gone all day, tired when they get home, rushed to drive here & there, all that stuff. Your moral compass comes from your family. 2) If providing no. 1 means sacrificing economically, then I would do it if at all possible. (It isn't always do-able if you want to keep eating, I know.) What many folks consider "needs" are really "wants." Big kitchen, more bathrooms, separate bedroom for each kid, bigger cars, loads of electronics. Our parents -- your grandparents -- grew up sharing bedrooms & bathrooms, playing with hand-me-down toys or making their own, no tv or video games, maybe a movie once in a while, and they were stronger, more grounded adults. Because their parents gave them rules to make them feel safe & expected success in ways other than material -- and were around to show them the way.

So if that meant changing cities in order to find what they needed, changing jobs or lifestyle, we would have done it. It comes with parenthood -- nobody forces us to have children; raising contributing, rounded adults is part of the calculation when we decide to have them. There are no easy solutions; we all have to figure out our own as best we can. But for me, the kids' growth comes before any other consideration.

--- Laurie

 

[justginger]

One BIG element in the difficulty is the taxes you pay. I know they are high in Oz, but bet they're higher in the UK. Income tax, VAT (20%, right?) & rates, stamp duties as you mention, on & on. Since VAT is not broken out separately, people are not aware when they buy what a huge increase it represents in the cost of everything. Makes it easy for gov'ts to slip in raises without driving voters crazy. Anyway, all this confiscation of your wealth makes it hard to save.

Rhea, to answer your question, we don't have kids, to our regret. If we had, it would've changed the entire calculation. I feel strongly that: 1) it is profoundly important for parents to be there for their kids -- physically and emotionally. One of the contributors to the illnesses in present society is that children are more or less left to bring each other up because parents are gone all day, tired when they get home, rushed to drive here & there, all that stuff. Your moral compass comes from your family. 2) If providing no. 1 means sacrificing economically, then I would do it if at all possible. (It isn't always do-able if you want to keep eating, I know.) What many folks consider "needs" are really "wants." Big kitchen, more bathrooms, separate bedroom for each kid, bigger cars, loads of electronics. Our parents -- your grandparents -- grew up sharing bedrooms & bathrooms, playing with hand-me-down toys or making their own, no tv or video games, maybe a movie once in a while, and they were stronger, more grounded adults. Because their parents gave them rules to make them feel safe & expected success in ways other than material -- and were around to show them the way.

So if that meant changing cities in order to find what they needed, changing jobs or lifestyle, we would have done it. It comes with parenthood -- nobody forces us to have children; raising contributing, rounded adults is part of the calculation when we decide to have them. There are no easy solutions; we all have to figure out our own as best we can. But for me, the kids' growth comes before any other consideration.

--- Laurie

Yes, of course, Laurie - I hadn't thought of taxes! VAT is double GST, and while income taxes are a bit lower in the UK, their national medical payments are significantly higher (from what I've been told). That would make a big difference, essentially equating an automatic 10% loss of purchasing power.

 

[Rhea]

Laurie - A lot of what you're saying is why I think, for the time being, we'd chose to stay in the city if we had children.

Ginger - I hadn't considered the taxes either! It makes me a bit bitter but I wouldn't trade it for the insecurity of not having medical cover for anything in the world. I get so scared for my American family and friends who don't have it. Bring on the higher taxes, I say!

I must say I'm shocked about what you said in the thread about Australian homes with poor roofs. Any time I mention moving to the US DH reminds me that most homes in the area where I'm from are built extremely poorly compared to UK homes in the area where we live. I'm surprised that Australia is perhaps the same. I'll never watch those Australian property shows in the same light again

 

[justginger]

Laurie - A lot of what you're saying is why I think, for the time being, we'd chose to stay in the city if we had children.

Ginger - I hadn't considered the taxes either! It makes me a bit bitter but I wouldn't trade it for the insecurity of not having medical cover for anything in the world. I get so scared for my American family and friends who don't have it. Bring on the higher taxes, I say!

I must say I'm shocked about what you said in the thread about Australian homes with poor roofs. Any time I mention moving to the US DH reminds me that most homes in the area where I'm from are built extremely poorly compared to UK homes in the area where we live. I'm surprised that Australia is perhaps the same. I'll never watch those Australian property shows in the same light again

I know, right? It boggles my mind -- not from a comfort perspective (ours has only leaked once, during the hail storm of the century that resulted in 20% of the whole city's cars being written off!), but from a SAFETY perspective. I don't know how it has eluded criminals this long that all they need is a panel van with a 'maintenance' stencil on the outside, a ladder, and Bob's your uncle. Instant mansion access.

I am also a big LOVER of Medicare, and happily pay the associated taxes. Honestly, I don't think it's expensive. I just sorted out my taxes today, ready to file tomorrow, and it appears that I paid a whopping $750 towards medicare this year. Granted, my income was rather docked from normal years due to going part time and losing my massive amounts of overtime, and I got some great uni write-offs -- but my salary was still solidly middle class. I know Americans who would kill for a year's medical insurance for that price! Thank goodness my best friend and her husband are skilled professionals, as I'm not convinced that things won't get bad enough back there that they decide to actually make the move down here,

 

[pregcurious]

House Hunters is my least favorite HGTV show, and that says a lot because all I watch is HGTV and one show on CBS. The demand for granite, stainless, and hardwood is just as annoying as someone saying I don't like this paint color, and using it as a reason not to buy a house.

Part of the explanation is that the show is fake. The buyers have already bought a house, and the other 2 houses are just for show. You can look this up on Google. I think it's hard to pick apart a house when you're faking it.

If it makes you feel better, my husband and I bought our first condo in our late 20s about a decade ago, and while it was renovated, it had formica countertops, white appliances, and 100 year old pine floors that had "character".

 

[chemgirl]

I am a 20 something (for a few more months at least) and bought a home last year. We've been watching property virgins atlanta lately and it is just infuriating. They complain about every little thing and they have no money! Their incomes would make it hard to afford an apartment where I live and my downpayment was about the same as the total cost of some of these houses.

But anything without granite is no good.

My new house has white appliances (but higher end than many of the stainless steel ones you see on those shows) and people actually commented on them at the housewarming party. "Too bad about the old appliances.". I'll take my NEW white appliances over the cheap stainless steel ones some builders are using.

 

[zoebartlett]

About House Hunters, I wish it was real and not so staged but it doesn't bother me too much. I still like seeing different homes in various parts of the US and internationally, as well. I like seeing what the new owners do to their new place after moving in.

I watched last night's episode and a young family was looking for a house in MD. The guy really, really wanted a cat walk above the family room [so he could call down for things if he wanted to get his wife's attention, I think]. Very random. The girl was just as picky about certain aspects of the places they visited -- it might have been that the kitchen didn't have granite or SS appliances. Neither one of them could overlook the faux paint on the walls, the tile on the floor, and other things they didn't want. They couldn't get past the things they didn't like, although the girl's brother, who was their realtor, kept pointing out that paint, etc. is an easy fix. I also love it when people touring homes comment on how much they dislike the style that owners/sellers decorate with. They don't like the furniture, they don't like a certain fixture...it goes on and on sometimes. Do these people realize that the furniture isn't staying and it's not something they'll have when they move in? That bugs me.

 

[JewelFreak]

For that reason, Zoe, I liked Property Virgins when Sandra Rinomato was on it. She knew her stuff & didn't let them get on with silliness; sometimes I want to smack these people upside the head -- then have to remind myself it's fake, lol. The only gripe I had was that you didn't get to see what they did once they moved in. I don't watch it with Egypt whatever-her-name is, who seems more a tv presenter than a realtor.

--- Laurie

 

[packrat]

Not to totally derail the entire subject, but there's another show on HGTV we like-Property Brothers. Mostly we enjoy seeing how things turn out of course, but it's a bit of a hair pulling event when they walk thru the fancy place that has everything they demand (every door opens inward and is hinged on the left, it's in the exact geographical location and coordinates they require, a spiral staircase curving in the desired direction in the specific type of wood and stain that they can't function without etc) and then they find out the cost and you know they want to stamp their feet and poke their lower lip out and pout "It's not FAIR!". Then they walk thru the homes the brothers could redo and they act like they're stuck in the LA Brea tar pits and can't lift their feet and ohhh gosh it's just so hooooorible ugh gawd *sigh* how could this *ever* work for *us* I mean *really*, this is laminate? oh my gawd laminate ugh see? this is just terrible! this wall color? who *lives* like this? seriously? And I know we could have the *exact* house we want for thousands and thousands less than our budget and for tens of thousands less than the "model" house you showed us but jeeeeez five whole *weeks*? You expect us to wait *that* long? Ugh I don't know, it's just too hard to live like this..



I'd like to knock their heads together, every last one of 'em.

 

[zoebartlett]

For that reason, Zoe, I liked Property Virgins when Sandra Rinomato was on it. She knew her stuff & didn't let them get on with silliness; sometimes I want to smack these people upside the head -- then have to remind myself it's fake, lol. The only gripe I had was that you didn't get to see what they did once they moved in. I don't watch it with Egypt whatever-her-name is, who seems more a tv presenter than a realtor.

--- Laurie

Yeah, I agree. I liked Sandra better. I also wish they showed you what people did after moving in. The show ending with "You've bought a house!" is lame. I wish they'd do an update on episodes. Did the inspection go okay? Were there any issues they had to deal with before closing? I guess that's what other HGTV shows do, so PV doesn't focus on that.

We're renting a condo that has upgraded countertops, faucets, cabinets, etc. I LOVE it and part of me is sad that we're moving to a new place soon. Our new condo that we'll be renting is older, and while it's bigger and we appreciate the extra space we'll have, it's not upgraded. It's not a big deal but I will miss not having those things. I wouldn't ever turn down a place simply because it didn't have updated appliances, countertops, or other things people complain about. Save money and put them in over time.

For what it's worth, I've lived in places that had white, black, and SS appliances. I greatly prefer black. I've seen white appliances that were beautiful, but I like black. SS is weird. Some has a dark grey look to it, which I don't like. If I was going with SS, I'd go with the shinier option, the one that has a more silvery look to it. I also don't like how hard they are to keep clean.