Vendor Trade-in/Upgrade Incentive? Or lack of?

[madelise]

I've been thinking lately, upon hearing of a few PSers' upgrade journeys. A majority of our beloved and trusted vendors have upgrade policies. It's part of their selling point, and a hugeeeee reason why we choose which vendors to work with.

For the first diamond purchased, the vendor usually brings in diamonds on loan from whatever xyz database all the vendors borrow from. There's none to minimal store risks or investments, and their benefits are very large (whatever % it may be that they markup their diamonds compared to how much they're charged from the database). They'll bend over backwards for you to gain you as a client instead of losing you to another vendor.

But when you upgrade… they're essentially giving you 100% credit for the diamond you purchased, and now they're stuck with your diamond. It seems like a rather large risk on their end. And then, they have to spend all this time and energy finding you an upgrade diamond where they won't make as much $ off of… because they're taking your trade-in as credit. They're getting much less profit. And you're pretty much obligated to go back, since your diamond was purchased from them and that's the only place you'll get the most value for your previous diamond.

So.. for example, your first diamond was $15K. I don't know what vendor markups are like, but I'm betting they make a pretty penny or they wouldn't be in the business. Turns out, you weren't much of a MRB gal so you decide to trade-in and upgrade to a slightly larger OEC, princess, cushion, whatever. You've saved an additional $5K to go towards this upgrade, with a total spending amount being $20K. The vendor is basically only profiting on the markup of that $5K amount, yet they're risking in taking back your 15K diamond that may or may not sell.. or who knows how long it will take to sell.

Does this effect the vendor's incentive to actually put in their best efforts in finding your upgrade stone? Or would the vendor then put this on the back burner because there isn't much gain for their business? And if they find a great stone that fits your needs, would they rather sell it to a brand new client seeking the same needs because they would make more profit off of that client?

I'd love it if vendors would chime in, as well, but I can also see that vendors would be stuck in sugarcoating everything because ethically, they should still place their upgrade clients at the top of their priorities… yet… I'm starting to question if there's even an incentive to do so.


A penny for your thoughts? (And sorry grammar n***s, I know I love my run-on sentences!)

 

[ClassyRocks]

Hi Madelise Interesting topic!

My vendor offered me a trade-in/upgrade for the diamonds that were part of there in house inventory only. The trade-in policy did not apply to virtual inventory diamonds. Fortunately, my husband and I liked the vendor's in-house diamond the better than the others.

I wonder how many vendors will offer the trade-in/upgrade policy for virtual diamonds? Also, would you have the choice of another virtual diamond as part of your upgrade if the vendor did not have what you desire?

 

[madelise]

Hi Madelise Interesting topic!

My vendor offered me a trade-in/upgrade for the diamonds that were part of there in house inventory only. The trade-in policy did not apply to virtual inventory diamonds. Fortunately, my husband and I liked the vendor's in-house diamond the better than the others.

I wonder how many vendors will offer the trade-in/upgrade policy for virtual diamonds? Also, would you have the choice of another virtual diamond as part of your upgrade if the vendor did not have what you desire?

Most of a vendors' diamonds actually aren't their own. It would be preposterous for them to invest millions of bucks just to have an inventory for people to see. Most of them are, in fact, "virtual" for them to order in for a client to see. They do own some. For ex: if a client (like myself last year) is seeking for $30K diamond, what are the chances that a vendor has multiple 30K stones sitting around, waiting for a buyer? All the vendors I contacted had to call in potential stones for me to consider… with a few vendors having maybe one or two in-hand just because they happened to have it in-hand.

 

[PintoBean]

I upgraded BG Signatures - a pair of earrings and a pendant to a quadex. Then a quadex to a BG Blue. I just kept combing the signatures and blues until something in the right size/color/clarity/price combo popped up and pulled the trigger real fast! I thought the trade-in/upgrade incentive was definitely there, and Denise understands me and my quirks - BONUS!

 

[madelise]

I upgraded BG Signatures - a pair of earrings and a pendant to a quadex. Then a quadex to a BG Blue. I just kept combing the signatures and blues until something in the right size/color/clarity/price combo popped up and pulled the trigger real fast! I thought the trade-in/upgrade incentive was definitely there, and Denise understands me and my quirks - BONUS!

That's for stuff they've already put on inventory, though, so you did all the grunt work for them. What about if you're searching for something that isn't on their inventory list? I'm more wondering about them doing more work, like sifting through options and such...

 

[SCARLETTE]

I am currently near the end of an upgrade process and these thoughts you have echoed my thoughts exactly while I was debating about upgrading through the vendor or try and sell the diamond on my own. In the end, I went with the previous vendor because he was willing to apply the entire amount I had paid towards the new diamond. However, I had to spend twice the amount - any less I would have lost about 15% in the trade. Even though I told him the specs for the new diamond, it became clear to me that I needed to actively look for the diamond on my own because he was slow to respond or not at all. But once I found what I wanted, he was quick to call them in and inspect them for me.

 

[Ashleigh]

Interesting topic. I'd be looking forward to the responses.

 

[madelise]

I am currently near the end of an upgrade process and these thoughts you have echoed my thoughts exactly while I was debating about upgrading through the vendor or try and sell the diamond on my own. In the end, I went with the previous vendor because he was willing to apply the entire amount I had paid towards the new diamond. However, I had to spend twice the amount - any less I would have lost about 15% in the trade. Even though I told him the specs for the new diamond, it became clear to me that I needed to actively look for the diamond on my own because he was slow to respond or not at all. But once I found what I wanted, he was quick to call them in and inspect them for me.

Hm, see, even with doubling the amount, I still see the vendor making quite a profit. I was thinking more of those that accept any upgrades.


Stinks to think he still made a pretty penny but you got little to no service from him

 

[GreenBling]

Assuming that majority customers who upgrade/trade in do so only after several years when the diamond price already gone up a bit, wouldn't the vendor make additional profit when reselling the traded in stone at a possible higher price today? But then again there is assumption that diamond price will go up, and that the vendor can resell the first stone. I've only bought from GOG and local chains. I understamd that GOG have different policies depending on the stone, possibly according to how resale-able they predict the stone to be?

 

[SB621]

I think you would be surprised to know that not many vendors I have found outside of PS are this generous in their upgrade policey. I know when I upgraded from my B&M store I had to spend 2x the purchase price for any upgrade. Also I think the amount of money spent on diamonds is slightly jaded here on PS. The vast majority of my friends spent between 3-5k on their orginal ering diamond. Say if they were in my situation they would then need to spend 6-10k for their upgrade. With the vendor sets these types of perimeters on an upgrade I think his costs are well covered.

 

[DiamondBrokersofFlorida]

I've been thinking lately, upon hearing of a few PSers' upgrade journeys. A majority of our beloved and trusted vendors have upgrade policies. It's part of their selling point, and a hugeeeee reason why we choose which vendors to work with.

For the first diamond purchased, the vendor usually brings in diamonds on loan from whatever xyz database all the vendors borrow from. There's none to minimal store risks or investments, and their benefits are very large (whatever % it may be that they markup their diamonds compared to how much they're charged from the database). They'll bend over backwards for you to gain you as a client instead of losing you to another vendor.

But when you upgrade… they're essentially giving you 100% credit for the diamond you purchased, and now they're stuck with your diamond. It seems like a rather large risk on their end. And then, they have to spend all this time and energy finding you an upgrade diamond where they won't make as much $ off of… because they're taking your trade-in as credit. They're getting much less profit. And you're pretty much obligated to go back, since your diamond was purchased from them and that's the only place you'll get the most value for your previous diamond.

So.. for example, your first diamond was $15K. I don't know what vendor markups are like, but I'm betting they make a pretty penny or they wouldn't be in the business. Turns out, you weren't much of a MRB gal so you decide to trade-in and upgrade to a slightly larger OEC, princess, cushion, whatever. You've saved an additional $5K to go towards this upgrade, with a total spending amount being $20K. The vendor is basically only profiting on the markup of that $5K amount, yet they're risking in taking back your 15K diamond that may or may not sell.. or who knows how long it will take to sell.

Does this effect the vendor's incentive to actually put in their best efforts in finding your upgrade stone? Or would the vendor then put this on the back burner because there isn't much gain for their business? And if they find a great stone that fits your needs, would they rather sell it to a brand new client seeking the same needs because they would make more profit off of that client?

I'd love it if vendors would chime in, as well, but I can also see that vendors would be stuck in sugarcoating everything because ethically, they should still place their upgrade clients at the top of their priorities… yet… I'm starting to question if there's even an incentive to do so.


A penny for your thoughts? (And sorry grammar n***s, I know I love my run-on sentences!)

The truth of the matter is, if you are dealing with an internet vendor, their markup is small and very competitive. "If" they give you a 100% upgrade with no restrictions, many times they go into the hole on an upgrade, especially if the stone is large. They need to sell the upgraded stone to make anything at all and pay their vendor. Example, you purchase a $15,000 dollar stone. Their profit was maybe $1000 if lucky. Now you want a $20,000 dollar stone, they may make $1500 if lucky and they have to pay for the new stone with either cash on hand or hopefully sell your first stone quickly before the bill is due. If money is tight they may delay as they have to come up with the funds for you for the new stone.

 

[madelise]

I think you would be surprised to know that not many vendors I have found outside of PS are this generous in their upgrade policey. I know when I upgraded from my B&M store I had to spend 2x the purchase price for any upgrade. Also I think the amount of money spent on diamonds is slightly jaded here on PS. The vast majority of my friends spent between 3-5k on their orginal ering diamond. Say if they were in my situation they would then need to spend 6-10k for their upgrade. With the vendor sets these types of perimeters on an upgrade I think his costs are well covered.

Even if they had to double the original purchase price of a $3K diamond, the vendor is still only really profiting off of the next $3k retail worth coming in… AND, on top of that, having the liability of now trying to sell the trade-in stone.

I'm not so much questioning how/if they make ends meet, I'm more questioning if they would feel less of an incentive to serve these clients.. And maybe those vendors that require a double or nothing upgrade aren't necessarily great examples? But I've bumped into plenty of jewelers here in LA jewelry district that will upgrade for less than that, anyway. The Mom and Pop jewelers I've gone to now a few times will give me 70% of my diamond cost towards any amount upgrade… or take full credit if it cost at least half the amount of the diamond more (150%).

So I guess I can elaborate on this more with that hypothetical situation:

So.. for example, your first diamond was $15K. I don't know what vendor markups are like, but I'm betting they make a pretty penny or they wouldn't be in the business. Turns out, you weren't much of a MRB gal so you decide to trade-in and upgrade to a slightly larger OEC, princess, cushion, whatever. You've saved an additional $5K to go towards this upgrade, with a total spending amount being $20K. The vendor is basically only profiting on the markup of that $5K amount, yet they're risking in taking back your 15K diamond that may or may not sell.. or who knows how long it will take to sell.

So vendor is obviously a busy person or company… aren't we all? And this particular consumer, say, decides to want an OEC this time around. Wants to upgrade to something that's as perfect of an OEC as possible, but again, only has a $20K budget and $15K of it is the credit from trade-in diamond. TRUE profit margin is only in that additional $5K. And now vendor has to worry about what to do with the trade-in diamond, yikes! Another potential client calls in, also with a $20K budget, searching for the same perfect OEC ever. (This isn't impossible… when I was searching for my e-ring stone, there were so many others with the same budget and same wants even posting here on RT!). Vendor finds ONE great specimen that will fit the bill. Who does the vendor call? The consumer with the upgrade, where he/she will have to deal with what to do with the old diamond, on top of only really making whatever he/she profits off of the $5K… or the potential new client, whom the vendor will make a the whole shebang of profit off of the $20K?

AND.. with the latter option, there was no client lost. Consumer #1 is and was still a consumer. Because Consumer #1 will still be wanting an upgrade, and will still wait for another "right" stone to come along, someday, since it's always easier and most cost efficient to upgrade through the same jeweler vs. having to sell it to another jeweler for a loss.

 

[DiamondBrokersofFlorida]

Another thing you could offer the vendor if you have had the stone for a while, it's possible the value has gone up in that time. You could offer them to sell your stone for you for a small commission, giving you the bulk if not all of the money back for your stone, and then starting fresh with new cash along with your additional funds.

 

[madelise]

The truth of the matter is, if you are dealing with an internet vendor, their markup is small and very competitive. "If" they give you a 100% upgrade with no restrictions, many times they go into the hole on an upgrade, especially if the stone is large. They need to sell the upgraded stone to make anything at all and pay their vendor. Example, you purchase a $15,000 dollar stone. Their profit was maybe $1000 if lucky. Now you want a $20,000 dollar stone, they may make $1500 if lucky and they have to pay for the new stone with either cash on hand or hopefully sell your first stone quickly before the bill is due. If money is tight they may delay as they have to come up with the funds for you for the new stone.

Thanks for chiming in. This is exactly what I wanted to know. Whatever xyz source that supplies all the vendors doesn't buy back? They're basically SOL if the old diamond can't sell soon? This is a burden, thus some vendors may not actually want to find you an upgrade?

 

[madelise]

And, well, shiitake mushrooms. I started this thread most interested in whether or not consumers get screwed over during the upgrade policy in terms of receiving proper customer service and attention… and now I'm feeling awful about the 'hole' vendors end up with..

 

[DiamondBrokersofFlorida]

That is correct. Keep the selling the stone on consignment in mind. I actually had a client that doubled the purchase price on a pink diamond. She was very happy.

 

[Rhino]

Yes. To concur and add to what Jan said...

The same profit margins are used regardless of whether you're purchasing the first time, the 2nd, 3rd, etc. In reality no profit is realized from the trade in transaction until the item traded actually gets sold. What the vendor is hoping is that prices have gone up, even a little so that there will be some extra profit from the traded item when it does sell. There is a risk ... yes, because the traded item may not sell quick and there is also the possibility prices can drop as well. We experienced huge loss on both trades and items we had purchased for stock during the price drop of 2008 but we rode out that storm. This is why I will only personally place "Lifetime Policies" on diamonds that we personally hand select and meet our qualifications. I'd never do it on just any diamond.

In some cases when prices rise dramatically we have in fact helped quite a few sell their previously purchased diamonds on consignment like Jan mentioned above. As long as the client has the time and is willing to part with their diamond for the time it takes to sell it that too is a great option and we have helped many with good success.

Regards,
Rhino

 

[GoSounders]

And, well, shiitake mushrooms. I started this thread most interested in whether or not consumers get screwed over during the upgrade policy in terms of receiving proper customer service and attention… and now I'm feeling awful about the 'hole' vendors end up with..

No need to feel awful. Upgrade policies are not made out of the goodness of a vendor's heart, they're made out of a business case. I'm sure every good vendor out there calculates risk, how much an upgrade policy costs, and how much the return to the vendor is based on increased likeliness of the customer to buy the initial stone, as well as locking up that customer for future upgrades. It's very clear this is the case when many upgrade policies have very specific requirements.

 

[WinkHPD]

I've been thinking lately, upon hearing of a few PSers' upgrade journeys. A majority of our beloved and trusted vendors have upgrade policies. It's part of their selling point, and a hugeeeee reason why we choose which vendors to work with.

For the first diamond purchased, the vendor usually brings in diamonds on loan from whatever xyz database all the vendors borrow from. There's none to minimal store risks or investments, and their benefits are very large (whatever % it may be that they markup their diamonds compared to how much they're charged from the database).

Don't we vendors wish THAT were true. On the internet markups are incredibly small or sales are non existent. Most larger diamonds sell on 5 to 8% markups from drop shippers, and those who take the time to provide more information might be getting closer to 10%, hardly a large benefit.

They'll bend over backwards for you to gain you as a client instead of losing you to another vendor.

But when you upgrade… they're essentially giving you 100% credit for the diamond you purchased, and now they're stuck with your diamond. It seems like a rather large risk on their end. And then, they have to spend all this time and energy finding you an upgrade diamond where they won't make as much $ off of… because they're taking your trade-in as credit. They're getting much less profit. And you're pretty much obligated to go back, since your diamond was purchased from them and that's the only place you'll get the most value for your previous diamond.

If you purchased a premium cut diamond, that is very likely true, as no one else is going to reward you for getting the best quality of cutting on your diamond. However, the vendors are making the same percentage profit on the new stone as they did on the old one and they may be fortunate enough that there is an increase in value for the trade in, so that when it sells they will make a little extra on that sale, or at least be able to do some of that "Bending over backwards," with someone to make a sale while still making profit.

If you purchased a diamond that is of average cutting, you may not get quite the trade in from a different vendor, but you may get something closer to what you paid if you are not trying to recover a premium paid for top quality cutting. Some vendors will cover their trade in risks on various qualities of cutting based on their expected sell through and support from their suppliers.

For example, with my premium line I get great support from that line and thus give 100% return on that line for any trade up, even if only for a few dollars. Somewhere on the boards here are a series of threads by a client of mine who first traded up from roughly $5000 to around $5,200 and three more times until she reached somewhere in the high $7,000's over a six to eight month period of time. I could not have done that without knowing that if I was not able to sell through quickly I could return the diamonds to my supplier.

However with my new line I have to buy those diamonds back with my own money as it were, so I require a 100% trade up.

So.. for example, your first diamond was $15K. I don't know what vendor markups are like, but I'm betting they make a pretty penny or they wouldn't be in the business. Turns out, you weren't much of a MRB gal so you decide to trade-in and upgrade to a slightly larger OEC, princess, cushion, whatever. You've saved an additional $5K to go towards this upgrade, with a total spending amount being $20K. The vendor is basically only profiting on the markup of that $5K amount, yet they're risking in taking back your 15K diamond that may or may not sell.. or who knows how long it will take to sell.

Does this effect the vendor's incentive to actually put in their best efforts in finding your upgrade stone? Or would the vendor then put this on the back burner because there isn't much gain for their business? And if they find a great stone that fits your needs, would they rather sell it to a brand new client seeking the same needs because they would make more profit off of that client?

Any vendor here who did that to you would not last long on these boards! All of the vendors here have one over riding incentive. To treat you well enough that you sing their praises to the sky so that other potential clients will see those praises and want to do business with them.

Another point to ponder. If you buy a non traditional shape of stone, there might not be a trade up on that diamond. I have not sold a marquise diamond for several years. If you have me look for one, I will include a no trade up policy on the receipt. Will that stop me from selling marquise shaped diamonds? Probably, but it will also stop me from having to fear a trade up on one that will leave me with thousands of dollars tied up in a diamond I might never sell.

Also. I think you need also to be looking at each vendor's buy back policies. Some, most of the drop shippers especially, offer no buy back policy. Some offer a buy back for one year, others for two and some offer a life time buy back. You will want to look at each vendor's polices for both the amount of the buy back and the time for which that buy back is good.

I think buy backs are actually more important than trade ups. If you are trading up, it is likely to be because things continue to go well for you. However, if you need a buy back, chances are you NEED that buyback. I would say that well over half of all the buy backs I do are because of health issues, which often is a spouse or child of the original buyer. When that happens you DO NOT want to find out that you are going to get 15 to 20% of what you paid for your diamond. Even if you just do not want that diamond any more, a buy back sets the floor on what you must accept for your diamond. If you paid $10,000 for a diamond with an 80% buy back you would never need to accept less than $8,000 for your diamond as that is what your vendor would pay. If the diamond has gone up in value and would now sell for a higher value at Internet retail, say $12,000, you still have an $8,000 floor on the diamond that your vendor will pay you, and you can now shop around to see if someone will pay more.

I'd love it if vendors would chime in, as well, but I can also see that vendors would be stuck in sugarcoating everything because ethically, they should still place their upgrade clients at the top of their priorities… yet… I'm starting to question if there's even an incentive to do so.

A penny for your thoughts? (And sorry grammar n***s, I know I love my run-on sentences!)

LOL, I am a huge run on sentence person my own self.

I think, as stated earlier, that all of the vendors here have a HUGE incentive to take good care of you and that they will do their best. I also know from shopping my competition once in a great while, that most of us have different trade in and buy back policies, and that the only way you will know which one has which, is for you to read their FAQ' and also to talk with them on the phone.

It is also a good idea to print that page out and date it on the date of purchase in case they should change after you bought your diamond. Then you can compare current with then policies to be sure get treated as you were promised at the time.

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

And, well, shiitake mushrooms. I started this thread most interested in whether or not consumers get screwed over during the upgrade policy in terms of receiving proper customer service and attention… and now I'm feeling awful about the 'hole' vendors end up with..

No need to feel awful. Upgrade policies are not made out of the goodness of a vendor's heart, they're made out of a business case. I'm sure every good vendor out there calculates risk, how much an upgrade policy costs, and how much the return to the vendor is based on increased likeliness of the customer to buy the initial stone, as well as locking up that customer for future upgrades. It's very clear this is the case when many upgrade policies have very specific requirements.

Yes, and even though we sometimes DO loose money on a trade in, we regard it as a cost of business, and in reality a good trade up or buy back policy is a form of advertising. Most will never need either of those services, but for those who might, or do, it is important that they be there. In the long run we will make more sales with them than without them and that is important for us to remember at all times.

Wink

 

[LaraOnline]

Thank you for taking the time to comment, Wink.

As a consumer I LOVE the concept of a trade-up - it is an important basis for the heartfelt love I have for my own diamond merchant and tbh I can put up with a little neglect service-wise if I KNOW and TRUST their expertise in the field of diamond selection, which I do.

 

[astar11]

thank you for such great comment / lesson wink

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Madelise, vendors with great upgrade policies such as GOG, WF, BG do not primarily sell virtual stones (although they do sell them upon request). They have a large in-stock selection of ideal cut diamonds. Those are the stones that are eligible for trade-in. They may or may not apply the trade-in policy to a virtual stone. And in the case of those that carry a huge selection of varied quality stones, only the superior stones may have the lifetime upgrade policies. I have used upgrade policies, but it was with hearts and arrows stones. And I have bought stones not part of a regular inventory that were not eligible for upgrade, too.

 

[Rhino]

Good input Winkster. Hope this finds you well my ol friend.

 

[WinkHPD]

Thank you for taking the time to comment, Wink.

As a consumer I LOVE the concept of a trade-up - it is an important basis for the heartfelt love I have for my own diamond merchant and tbh I can put up with a little neglect service-wise if I KNOW and TRUST their expertise in the field of diamond selection, which I do.

You are welcome, and I applaud you for having a vendor/client relationship with your diamond vendor. In this day of the Internet often a sale is lost over a few dollars with no regard to the service or expertise in being sure that you are actually getting what you think you are getting. (By a few dollars I mean sometimes less than 1 - 3% of apparent price, and if something is not as represented the actual price overpaid can be as much as 10 - 20%. That is a HUGE loss to pay for attempting to cut out the small extra percentage paid to someone who is looking out for you!)

Knowing that you are dealing with someone who is or approaches being a friend is a comfort to you as a buyer, and unless you are an extremely knowledgeable buyer it is also a comfort to your pocket book.

I have mentioned before one definition of a client, comes from the political "client state", meaning a state under the protection of a larger or more powerful nation.

When a businessman has a customer, he has a customer with whom he has little to no ongoing relationship. He delivers what is asked for and moves on with little to no thought about the actual customer.

When a businessman (or woman) has a client, he has relationship with a consumer with whom he has an obligation to protect and to find ways to nurture the relationship. This will usually cost the business man more than simply delivering a product requested, especially if he recommends against the product requested as he knows it is not what the client really needs/wants.

Since it costs the businessman more, it will usually also seem to cost the client more, but the actual value to the client is also usually worth more than the perceived extra cost because of the comfort that comes with the purchaser knowing that what was delivered is either what was requested or better than requested. That is one of the reasons why people will pay a diamond dealer a little more if he provides all of the details about a diamond that the drop shippers can not/will not provide due to the cost of actually bringing in a diamond to examine it. All of that information has value and adds comfort to the purchase for those that want to know those things.

Sorry, rambling on again. Just a few early morning thoughts brought on by your nice comment about your vendor. You are a client of your vendor, and you recognize his value. That, in my opinion, makes you a good client.

Wink

 

[delight]

Thanks for the insights. It's great to hear from the various vendors their views.

 

[luvmysparklies]

The internet has certainly provided an opportunity for consumers to gain a lot of knowledge about diamonds (history, cutting, pricing, etc.) Pricescope in particular is a very valuable tool and mechanism for consumers and vendors alike. Where consumers were once only reliant on the knowledge and equally important -integrity of their jewelers and paid whatever price for a stone they were charged, thanks to Pricescope now we have a new player to the game—the “prosumer”. This site has been a nice antidote to some of the shady practices that we all know goes on in the business. On the other hand, I know of situations where consumers have tried to haggle and negotiate prices with an internet vendor to the point that the vendor would only realize a few dollars on the purchase. Some of these same people use the internet vendor prices to try and negotiate a purchase through an establishment that is solely a B&M. Speaking to the integrity issue, it does go both ways.

All of the vendors who took the time to chime in here are known to be top notch. I’ve not had the pleasure of dealing with Jan/DBOF. However, in considering my dealings with both Jon and Wink, I have received nothing but superior service and have bought multiple diamonds from both that do and do not qualify for trade up and/or buy back. I fully understand that they are in business and the points they were making from a business standpoint in their posts. But, when also considering the human element I don’t know that a person would be motivated in a trade up situation if they have been overly haggled with to the point that the consumer comes off making no allowance for them to keep the lights on, feed the family etc.

As they say, a little knowledge can be dangerous. Yes, there are shady practices. Yes, we have a great venue here and the knowledge shared has a natural effect of raising expectations. But sometimes I have seen posts that read a little beyond a consumer just trying to get the best deal possible and it goes into the territory of scalping down to ridiculous expectations. If you are dealing with, and have established a client-type relationship with a vendor you’ve been given time-tested reason to trust…trust them and their motivations to help you—and let ‘em buy a sandwich and have air conditioning every now again.
JMHO, as it relates to another facet of motivation of course!

 

[madelise]

Wow, thanks Jonathan and Wink for chiming in!! and for sharing all the insider information. I had no idea that the profit margin truly is THAT low, but I totally can see it as you vendors are all competing with so many many many online vendors!

I'm sad to hear that whatever xyz diamond dealers don't buy back the diamonds you take in for credit. For larger stores, this sounds just annoying. For smaller stores, it sounds like it can be completely devastating. I am, for one, very happy to have worked with Jonathan at GOG, and the buy-back/trade-in/upgrade policy at GOG was a big incentive for me to work with them vs. another vendor…. even when my significant other made me swear up, down, and all around that there will never ever ever be an upgrade. It's peace of mind. And it's a fantastic marketing strategy to reign in clients. It worked on me though it was not the only or biggest reason I went with GOG.

Now this makes me think back to those original PSers' stories that sparked my scratching of my head. So clients that really are fickle about their wants and upgrade soon or often, without much more of an increase in budget, must really be hard to work with because of the store needing to absorb the costs on the original diamond until it sells.

I hope clients and future clients keep mindful about how upgrading, buying-back, and trading-in.

 

[WinkHPD]

Thank you Astar11 and Rhino for the kind words.


In reference to my prior post, Rhino fits my description of a vendor who provides tons of information for a slight perceived extra cost. It takes a lot of time and effort to do that properly. And boy, I must say, that information has awesome value surpassing the slight cost because (1) it sheds light on hundreds of critical details on items worth thousands and thousands of dollars (on an order of magnitude that makes a Cert and HCA number look just plain silly) and (2) for me it publicly demonstrates how seriously the seller as a gemologist is investigating and assessing the details of each item he or she offers.

Listing long, long, supplier-databases of virtual stones takes a few clicks of the mouse. Someone who enters the trade and installs WordPress at breakfast can have thousands listed by lunch and still make a 2:00 tee time.

I have chosen not to do this. Yes, I could list thousands in a moment. And maybe I’m a crazy curmudgeon, but I recently undertook the task of adding twenty-eight new diamonds on my site. They include individual Videos, ASETs, Mag photos, etc. etc. In the diamond world twenty-eight diamonds is nothing, but it took me three full ten-hour days of work to do that. I bet Rhino will confirm it’s not just me, it isn't easy to put up all of the information he does, but it’s the cost some of us undertake in order to provide these details to clients who want to make fully-informed decisions. And while I know twenty-eight diamonds is not a lot, each represents a future client to me.

Here’s how the above answers the original topic-question: The time and costs I described above are key to what I *personally* feel is needed to offer Buy-Back and Trade-Up at the level I have chosen. Because, in my case, those policies are reflections of what I choose to sell.

 

[WinkHPD]

The internet has certainly provided an opportunity for consumers to gain a lot of knowledge about diamonds (history, cutting, pricing, etc.) Pricescope in particular is a very valuable tool and mechanism for consumers and vendors alike. Where consumers were once only reliant on the knowledge and equally important -integrity of their jewelers and paid whatever price for a stone they were charged, thanks to Pricescope now we have a new player to the game—the “prosumer”. This site has been a nice antidote to some of the shady practices that we all know goes on in the business. On the other hand, I know of situations where consumers have tried to haggle and negotiate prices with an internet vendor to the point that the vendor would only realize a few dollars on the purchase. Some of these same people use the internet vendor prices to try and negotiate a purchase through an establishment that is solely a B&M. Speaking to the integrity issue, it does go both ways.

All of the vendors who took the time to chime in here are known to be top notch. I’ve not had the pleasure of dealing with Jan/DBOF. However, in considering my dealings with both Jon and Wink, I have received nothing but superior service and have bought multiple diamonds from both that do and do not qualify for trade up and/or buy back. I fully understand that they are in business and the points they were making from a business standpoint in their posts. But, when also considering the human element I don’t know that a person would be motivated in a trade up situation if they have been overly haggled with to the point that the consumer comes off making no allowance for them to keep the lights on, feed the family etc.

As they say, a little knowledge can be dangerous. Yes, there are shady practices. Yes, we have a great venue here and the knowledge shared has a natural effect of raising expectations. But sometimes I have seen posts that read a little beyond a consumer just trying to get the best deal possible and it goes into the territory of scalping down to ridiculous expectations. If you are dealing with, and have established a client-type relationship with a vendor you’ve been given time-tested reason to trust…trust them and their motivations to help you—and let ‘em buy a sandwich and have air conditioning every now again.
JMHO, as it relates to another facet of motivation of course!

Thank you for your very kind comments! They are greatly appreciated!

Wink