RADIANT advice- calling all radiant resident experts!

[chris143007]

Hi there,

yes I have the standard measurements for Stone 1 (branded stone)

D: 68.6
T: 61

Educate me on your last post...don''t quite understand what you''re trying to tell me. Thanks...are you saying Stone 2 (unbranded) is hard to beat??

 

[chris143007]

hi everyone,

just checking in to see if I got any more feedback. Icelady and Nicrez- where are you guys?

 

[Nicrez]

Hey Chris,

Just to let you know, I think you should go with the stone that speaks the most to you. basically see them in person. In my opinion, fancy stones really are tough to go by numbers for a variety of reasons.

According to what I have gathered Grossbard Radiants depths are calculated based on length and width, and not just the width.

GIA grades a stones based on WIDTH alone, and the calculation does not take into account the depth required for a stone if it is rectangular.

Plus I''ve been busy trying to be a good little gemologit in training...

Study study

 

[chris143007]

Hi Nicrez,

I know you''re busy...i was just kidding

I''m definitely seeing any stone I intend to purchase. I just got off the phone with the vendor that has the Orig. Radiant stones and they ordered in 2 more stones for me to look at. Obviously, I''m sure they''ll look great...now, at what point do I just pick one already? If i''m choosing between 3 Orig. Radiants and 1 unbranded that I have posted on this thread, do I just decide on one of these and go for it?

All 4 seem like good picks, but I''m sure a little of the devil can be found in the stats of each stone that I haven''t mastered at all...

 

[icelady]

Hey Chris,

I have to agree with Nicrez on this one. You really need to see them in person to pick THE ONE!! It really is hard to judge by the numbers. As a matter of fact, had I gone only by the numbers on my stone, I would have passed it up.

Is it possible to call in the unbranded Radiant to view it with the Original Radiants? That would be the best of all worlds if possible! Good luck!

 

[chris143007]

I think it might...good idea. I have been planning on notifying the unbranded stone vendor to please send it to an independent 3rd party for my evaluation. I wonder if the branded stone store will be acceptable to the online vendor?

Also, is a hold on a credit card for the amount of the stone typical when evaluating a stone?

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Chris- I''ll agree with everyone saying that you need to see the stones to decide.

Yet I would say that calling in more stones would not really make your life any easier- because if you''re looking for rectangular radiant it seems that both the stones you are currently considering are likely very nice. I have found that sometimes looking at too many of something makes the decision needlessly stressful.
If you are comfortable with the seller, and the money back guarantee I would say that you coulld safely save some money here and go for the non branded.

Regarding depth calculations. There''s only one way to make this calculation. If a diamond measured 12 x 10 x 6 the depth is 60% ( 6 divided by 10) Therefore if a stone had the same 6 mm depth, but it was a more narrow profile it would have a higher depth percentage. ( say 12x9x6 which equals a 66.6% depth)

Cutters like the one that produces the Original Radiant use some very advanced tools to measure and chart the diamond. I believe the original stone comes with a detailed and specific graph of the stone.

Still - whether looking at a branded stone, or a non branded stone- there is only one way we all calculate the depth of a diamond

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 11/16/2004 5:13:56 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren
Garry- Sorry- the stone is long gone- and the lady really was not interested in the helium test results.
Yes, I have access to all the latest tools right in my backyard- but I prefer to use my eyes.
Chris- There are a few stats missing- especially on the second stone- does it have a GIA report?
Secondly- the first stone sounds pretty nice to me- and since we are sure if it''s autheticity, I would ask this- the dimensions of the second stone seem strange. It''s a teeny bit longer- but it''s wider and deeper and olny .01 more in wieght- this is within the realm of possibility- yet the missing stats like table and depth have me wondering.


It is common for a Sarin to give slightly different measurement than those found on a GIA report- the measurements are so precise that small differences in the measuring tools are common

Re the pink ideal-scope toy and other tools of analysis David. You will never subject your good self to objective tests will you?
You only come on this board for the purpose of showing nice photo''s of fancy shapes which are much harder to quantify. When I do challenge you to an objective test, like on the previous page, you either run away, or the stone is no longer around.

So until you do, please realize that you have no credability with me. It is patently clear that you drop in to politiely pick up some business, and fly away again, having added nothing more than some nice words and given a potential customer your business card.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 11/17/2004 23:36 AM
Author: chris143007
are you saying Stone 2 (unbranded) is hard to beat??

Yes. This is what all that wording was trying to say.

Aside the looks of the stone in the picture, the Brilliance Scope really adds some information on what this diamond may look like in person. Otherwise it is not feasible to guess light return from Sarin data on a fancy cut. There is no receipe (like the HCA for rounds) to help with that.

I was trying to say that looking for a higher Brilliance Scope score may not be very meaningful, simply because this tool is biased towards ranking stones according to their brightness in direct light conditions. So some very fiery stones that are not favored by such bright light would not be well served by the B-scope.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Chris- I apologize if this is off topic

Garry- this thread is about a person asking for guidance on the purchase of a radiant diamond- I am here offering my opinion. I''ve bought hundreds of Radiant cut damonds this year so my opinion is based on hard experience.
I respect those who prefer to use Brilliancescope, study crown angle pavillion depth, even use the HCA.
I post here to present another viewpoint, and my photos allow me to show what I''m talking about. I am not offering items for sale here. Neither of the stones presented here are from me.

Actually this thread is a good case in point of how both veiwpoints can co-exist- the internet seller has presented some pretty good photos- as well as a Brilliancescope and GIA rpeort.
I based my opinion on the GIA and the photos- Ana has used the Brilliancescope. We both said that it would probably be a good risk to g wit the less expensive sone, given that Chris is comfortable with the seller and return policy.

Either way- either using the photos or the Bscope, it won''t be until Chris see the stone that this question will ultimately be answered.

As always Garry- I wish you the best, and look forward to sharing a beer one day soon.

BTW- Do you agree that a Sarin report will often be a hundreth or two off of GIA measurements?

 

[diamondsbylauren]

My apologies to Nicrez
She is correct- after doing further research I have learned about the way the cutters of the Original Radiant Cut diamonds calculate the corrected depth ratio based on the fact that a rectangular- or square- diamond, needs to be judged differently than a round.

 

[chris143007]

Just got a call from the Original Radiant retailer telling me they have more for me to come look at. I''ll go this weekend to see them. Based on the price of the unbranded stone and it''s apparent quality, the Original Radiant is about 25% more than the unbranded. That''s a pretty big increase, I think Nicrez mentioned something about 15% premium usually.

What I am getting bothered at with myself is the fact that I have seen the unbranded in pictures, have its #''s, and I''m still thinking about just getting an Original Radiant to be safe. I can''t imagine the other ones they received will be much lower in price, since the stats are in the same ballpark....we''ll see.

Thanks everyone, will keep ya''ll updated...

 

[valeria101]

Date: 11/19/2004 100:42 PM
Author: chris143007
I''m still thinking about just getting an Original Radiant to be safe

It would be great to see one next to the other. The branded rads are not all carbon copies of each other. And the brand is not protected either - anyone can make radints like them.

It is your call, of course. Keep us posted

 

[chris143007]

Just got back from seeing 2 other Original Radiants- a bit out of my budget range.

I get the unbranded stone next week. The vendor said something about putting a hold on my credit card, but I don''t know if that was after I purchase the stone or now that I''m going to see it in person.

 

[chris143007]

receiving the (unbranded) stone tomorrow for inspection...i have 7 days to look at it, get it appraised, etc....any thoughts my friends? Opinions?

 

[LukeMintzas]

Chris, I was in the same boat as you. Radiants are very tricky. They might look great on paper, and come with the rcdc brand, but that does not guarentee they will look any better than an unbraded radiant. I have viewed a few rcdc diamonds and could not justify the significant price premium. I used some of rcdc''s cut guildlines in my search criteria and ended up finding the perfect H Vs1 1.04 ct. rectangular radiant for under $4k. Just keep searching. Henry Martinez from whiteflash.com was very helpful in my search. Good Luck!

 

[nurse55]

Hi Gary,
Have been reading many threads about radiant cut diamonds. Am noticing that you and Diamonds by Lauren have many opposing views (and should I add, some bitterness) towards each other. I only ask because I am in search of a radiant diamond 2.5 -3.0 carats. David emailed me some pictures but I am now skeptical buying from him. Please help? Do I not believe or trust him, and will he rip me off? Thanks for the response in advance.

 

[eks6426]

Good luck in your radiant search. I definitely agree that you need to see the stones in person. I wound up with a radiant that didn''t completely fit the ideal standards--1.20 F VVS2 6.75X5.44X3.87 but table at 72% and depth at 71.1%....not in the 60s like the chart recommends. If I went by numbers alone I never would have even called in this diamond. But when I saw it in person it just sang. My jeweler brought in over 10 radiants..many with the table & depth in the 60s but this on sparkled more....even to my fiance who normally doesn''t really notice the differences in diamonds. I even used the ideal scope on it--and it was better than the others. I guess sometimes you just won''t know until you see it with your own eyes.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

HI everyone,
I would just like to say that I realize the amount of work that Garry''s done- in spite of the fact that I disagree with the findings, that does not erase the respect I have for someone who''s worked so hard.
I have no bitterness towards Garry whatsoever.
This in spite of the fact that we have locked horns many times.


Nurse- I appreciate you asking us about diamonds.
I would advise ANYONE buying a diamond to excercise a lot of caution. If a buyer is questioning the integrity of a dealer, that is a sure sign to find another dealer.

I apprecaite you considering our Radiant Cut diamonds, and wish you the best in your search.


Here is the diamond that Nurse55 was considering- it''s a 2.67 G/SI1 Original Radiant Cut Diamond ( a branded stone)

Happy Valentines Day everyone!!!

 

[Nicrez]

Considering I have seen some good versions and bad versions of the radiant cut, I decided to go with the original cut that was guaranteed to be cut to a certain standard that is not only documented, but also visible in my opinion. That was our choice and we believe that the price was worth it.

Does this mean Grossbard radiants are always better than generic? No, not always.
Does this mean that Generics all look different than the originals? No, not always.
Does this mean everyone agrees on the standards for radiants? Certainly not!

In my opinion, cutting diamonds is an art. Each piece is unique, and although you can try prefectly to replicate it it will never be perfectly the same. To me, it''s the difference between a Monet and a good replica. The replica may be amazing, but it''s never quite the same. In the end, diamonds should make you happy and be pleasing to the eyes. If the genric brand calls you, then that is the stone you should get. It''s all in the eyes, and not everyone agrees on art anyway!