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madelise

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kenny|1354999621|3326365 said:
I'm old and honestly did not find out what "gay" meant till I was in my 20s.
"Nice" people in the 60s just did NOT discuss that.
Today kids are exposed to the subject early.


What did you think you were before your 20's?

I recently attending an open forum, where someone addressed how Pride has become a commodity. It has, especially here in SoCA and other larger cities, but for areas where being "gay" is not normalized, it is an opportunity to define a being to someone who doesn't know what it means to be gay, and needs to be "set free". It baffled me. I sat there, in shock. I can't imagine not knowing what is "wrong" with me, because there's nothing that can "explain" me, feeling as if I am the odd one out, the "freak".

Curious what it was like for you, before you knew what gay was. What "were" you?

My close friend detailed it as being a "freak", when I asked him. But we grew up in a different generation. We eventually knew what gay was, so he only had to deal with a few short years of confusion.. during an age where everyone else was just as confused. He didn't suffer any more for being gay.


The conversation will come up naturally when I discuss this with my children-to-be. No need to talk birds and the bees with a 4 year old. 14? Look at the internet if you want to know the anatomical descriptions and practices. My approval, or non-approval, will not affect any one's sexual orientation. If someone allows their parent to dictate their sexual orientation, they're not gay or straight; they're sheep. And I'm sad for them.
 

lknvrb4

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My seven year old daughter is very curious about this subject and we talk about it openly. I explained that sometimes girls are with girls and boys are with boys and sometimes they get married just like a man and woman. I want my kids to know that everyone is different and because of that does not mean anything is wrong with it. You can't help who you love.
 

yennyfire

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lknvrb4|1355053165|3326723 said:
My seven year old daughter is very curious about this subject and we talk about it openly. I explained that sometimes girls are with girls and boys are with boys and sometimes they get married just like a man and woman. I want my kids to know that everyone is different and because of that does not mean anything is wrong with it. You can't help who you love.

Exactly. I just had the sex talk with my just turned 8 year old (he asked) and I was very matter of fact about what sex is and that it occurs between two consenting adults, whether it be man/woman, man/man or woman/woman. He just said "okay Mommy" and then asked if he could watch Frosty the Snowman, lol.
 

ericad

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This came up in our family when our daughter was in preschool, so around age 4. My brother is gay and married to his partner, so same sex marriage has never been segregated out as being anything noteworthy - she never questioned it as being anything but two people being married, like anyone else.

But one day she went to school and she decided that she and her best friend Maddy were going to marry each other. Another child told them that girls aren't allowed to marry other girls and that they'd have to marry boys or else they can't have babies. DD came home in tears, worried about not being able to marry who she wants, and worried about how it is that her uncles are married to each other - worried that they were doing something wrong.

I simply explained to her that there are people in the world who believe that boys shouldn't be allowed to marry boys, and girls shouldn't be allowed to marry girls, but that's not what we believe in our family, and that we believe laws will change and that eventually everyone will be allowed to marry whoever they love. I empowered her to stand up for this belief and she went back to school and explained this to the other child and that was the end of it.

Last year we were driving in the car and a song came on the radio that had the word "gay" in it. DD asked what that word meant, because I suppose it's never come up before (not the concept of being gay, but the actual word). So I explained it to her, and the next day she came home and said that she told all her friends what it meant, and that she and her best friend proudly announced to everyone that they're gay because they're both girls and they love each other. By the end of the day all the kids were saying that they're gay too, lol. It was cute. She said, "I don't know what the big deal is, turns out everyone in my class is gay too!"

Our DD knows that she has the freedom to love anyone she wants. What a gift that is for future generations.
 

iheartscience

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madelise|1355047899|3326698 said:
kenny|1354999621|3326365 said:
I'm old and honestly did not find out what "gay" meant till I was in my 20s.
"Nice" people in the 60s just did NOT discuss that.
Today kids are exposed to the subject early.

The conversation will come up naturally when I discuss this with my children-to-be. No need to talk birds and the bees with a 4 year old. 14? Look at the internet if you want to know the anatomical descriptions and practices. My approval, or non-approval, will not affect any one's sexual orientation. If someone allows their parent to dictate their sexual orientation, they're not gay or straight; they're sheep. And I'm sad for them.

Sheep? What? Someone who doesn't want to accept their own sexuality is someone who deals with hatred directed towards gay and lesbian people on a daily basis. Maybe they were raised in an environment where being gay is considered disgusting, unnatural, wrong. Maybe they're Christian and attend a church that tells them they'll go to hell if they're gay.

When I think of all the hateful things I've heard and seen directed towards gay people, it's hard to imagine that any of them would come out, ever. Calling people who don't come out sheep is ridiculous and offensive.
 

kenny

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madelise|1355047899|3326698 said:
kenny|1354999621|3326365 said:
I'm old and honestly did not find out what "gay" meant till I was in my 20s.
"Nice" people in the 60s just did NOT discuss that.
Today kids are exposed to the subject early.


What did you think you were before your 20's?

I recently attending an open forum, where someone addressed how Pride has become a commodity. It has, especially here in SoCA and other larger cities, but for areas where being "gay" is not normalized, it is an opportunity to define a being to someone who doesn't know what it means to be gay, and needs to be "set free". It baffled me. I sat there, in shock. I can't imagine not knowing what is "wrong" with me, because there's nothing that can "explain" me, feeling as if I am the odd one out, the "freak".

Curious what it was like for you, before you knew what gay was. What "were" you?

My close friend detailed it as being a "freak", when I asked him. But we grew up in a different generation. We eventually knew what gay was, so he only had to deal with a few short years of confusion.. during an age where everyone else was just as confused. He didn't suffer any more for being gay.


The conversation will come up naturally when I discuss this with my children-to-be. No need to talk birds and the bees with a 4 year old. 14? Look at the internet if you want to know the anatomical descriptions and practices. My approval, or non-approval, will not affect any one's sexual orientation. If someone allows their parent to dictate their sexual orientation, they're not gay or straight; they're sheep. And I'm sad for them.

Good question.
Actually it is wonderful that we have come so far today it could be perplexing to people to visualize how a person could live for so long with a huge part of their personhood dormant.

What was I?
Indeed!

To make a short story long ...
I was different and rejected by my dad and two older brothers since my earliest memories for not liking sports, hunting fishing and butchering the kill, aggressive fighting, competitiveness etc.
I'd rather spend time with my older sister, or play guitar.
I was abused by my alcoholic dad by beatings when I resisted being forced to play sports, or help him fix the car etc.
I didn't like stereotypical boy stuff; I preferred stereotypically girl stuff like art.

At puberty when all (at least I assumed ALL) other boys started noticing the girls in that new hubba-hubba way I started to notice the boys in that new hubba-hubba way.
TV, books, film, church, society, school, my entire world only presented the option of straight dating.
I assumed I was horribly ill and I was the only one of the planet, and doomed to a life of loneliness.
I even had a couple "girlfriends" and got engaged, though there was never any sex or even kissing, which was easy to explain since we were born again Christians.

Astonishingly, the concept that I could act on my secret attraction never entered my mind till around age 23 when I was in the military and stationed in the South Pacific and even then it was only because a safe ideal opportunity presented itself and the other guy took the lead...

I'm not making this up...
I was snorkeling on a deserted island (you had to swim out to it from a larger island that had a resort on it) when, underwater, I noticed another person.
He and I met and talked and walked up on the beach where he asked me to put sunblock on his back and the rest is history.
Finally I was a person.

I swear I'm not making this up.
It's the small island on the right.
I know lots of guys have horrible first experiences, but mine was quintessential.

_2273.jpg
 

iheartscience

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Wow kenny-thanks for sharing. I'm so glad that guy found you.
 
D

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kenny said:
JaneSmith|1355008633|3326463 said:
Kenny, if you didn't know what gay meant until your 20's, what did you think was going on with you? I hope you didn't have a rough time.

Thanks.
But yes, it was rough.
No prom.
No dating.
No nothing till age 23.
It was like a huge part of healthy normal kid-to-adult development simply did not take place, and when it finally did I was 23 with no peer group to share it with, support me and relate to.
Image if you locked your adolescent in a freezer for a decade.

Oh well. It is what it is and I survived, but sure it was rough.
I'm sure I'm more F-ed up than I would have been if I was born in 2012.

Lucky for today's kids, the bigots are losing.
The bigots ARE losing! But I'm sorry that one of the bigots that are treading on is one of my friends. I cannot believe her mentality. Our whole friendship, I have been very vocal about politics with her because she loves to talk about it. I always knew she was a republican and I, a liberal but, I never knew she held such an extreme stand against same sex relationships.

I apologize for her so much Kenny. I don't really know what to do with myself right now hearing that she is actually one of the people I am always fighting against.

I went to a wedding. It was for my friends, Brad and Jim. Everyone said "ooh, you're going to a GAY wedding." But to me, it was just another wedding. A wedding where two people that love each other so much, want to dedicate the rest of their lives to one another. Same as my husband and me.

I went on a rant again. I just feel very strongly about this topic and I am so so glad that there are more people are PS that support this topic. We need less people like my so called friend and more people with an open mind and open heart.

I hope that your life is at a better place now. Seems like it is and that you feel comfortable in your own skin. There will always be bigots. But I support you 110% Kenny.
 

kenny

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Thanks all.
Yes, I'm groovy now but I wish society would catch up and this topic was relegated to the dustbin of history.
Equality in terms of marriage, taxes, inheritance laws, hospital visitation, and employment benefits would be a start.

Being gay doesn't matter any more than hair color matters.
It only matters to the person you partner with.

How did those organizations we can't mention ever get away with disguising bigotry as morality?
 

LJL

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AH KENNY! That story was fantastic! I actually chuckled to myself- I thought "oh yea, the sunblock, so cliche!" which is great because NO ONE had that quintessential movie-like experience. YOU WERE ON A FREAKIN DESERTED ISLAND! Maybe you were meant to wait til you were 23 to have such a PERFECT experience.

I just chimed in to say... how GREAT.


and that I too had the bigot-experience with someone close(ish) to me and it was astonishing. Jaws dropped on all people in the room. The person's parents (big liberals) were so disgusted, they couldnt believe they had somehow raised a bigot. And I think they were also shocked to see the most "conservative" person in the room (me!) defend gay marriage to someone who did in fact describe gayness as a disease. I prescribe to the "i dont give a crap" view where people can do whatever they want as long as they dont hurt anyone. I dont care what gay people do just like I dont care what straight people do and just like I dont think people should care what I do. I feel like this is a natural view - live and let live ...and for someone born in my generation (in their 20s), I am TOTALLY lost on where the animosity for gay people comes from. This experience made me think that its a lot about NOT presenting a "norm" as a parent. By saying that love is normal - and avoiding saying "men can be with men just like men can be with women" - because even this phrase subtly presents men with women as the primary type of relationship. Then anything different is weird. :(( Thank goodness I have a few years before I have to refine my parental approach!
 

madelise

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thing2of2|1355072025|3326852 said:
madelise|1355047899|3326698 said:
kenny|1354999621|3326365 said:
I'm old and honestly did not find out what "gay" meant till I was in my 20s.
"Nice" people in the 60s just did NOT discuss that.
Today kids are exposed to the subject early.

The conversation will come up naturally when I discuss this with my children-to-be. No need to talk birds and the bees with a 4 year old. 14? Look at the internet if you want to know the anatomical descriptions and practices. My approval, or non-approval, will not affect any one's sexual orientation. If someone allows their parent to dictate their sexual orientation, they're not gay or straight; they're sheep. And I'm sad for them.

Sheep? What? Someone who doesn't want to accept their own sexuality is someone who deals with hatred directed towards gay and lesbian people on a daily basis. Maybe they were raised in an environment where being gay is considered disgusting, unnatural, wrong. Maybe they're Christian and attend a church that tells them they'll go to hell if they're gay.

When I think of all the hateful things I've heard and seen directed towards gay people, it's hard to imagine that any of them would come out, ever. Calling people who don't come out sheep is ridiculous and offensive.

I noticed you like picking on the stuff I write. I think anyone who allows others to dictate how they should feel about themselves, and who they are, is a sheep. I don't care if you think it's ridiculous or offensive. That's your view, and it won't affect my view, because I'm not a sheep. I'm sorry, why are you letting me bother you? Because I shared the answer to a question Kenny asked us to share? Or do you actually care for me to explain that yes, it sucks for children who are otherwise dependent on their parents to provide them shelter and food for their first 18 years, and thus must "abide by their law".. But to spend their whole entire lives stuck, damned, in an area where they are subjected to hatred is their own weakness. People can move away from negativity. It's a personal choice to stay. I think people who are willing to subject their whole lives to oppression, who are basically dominating themselves by allowing their domination, yes, are sheep. Dealing with hatred does not mean you don't accept yourself. Accepting yourself secretly is still, nonetheless, accepting yourself, and recognizing your reality-- potentially creating that motivation to move, or change. Blindly allowing others to dictate your personality, your being, and your life is.. hey look! The herder is here! I know more than a handful of gays, male and female, who have moved away from hick-towns post-adulthood. I am happy that they felt their sense of self was more worthy than allowing themselves to be subjected to hate daily, for the rest of their lives, where they have to put on a mask of "straightness" just to be accepted. I love that they took a stand, announced who they were, told people who had an issue with it to kiss the dust, and took ownership of their sense of self. It all comes down to it being a personal choice: Are you strong enough to stand up for yourself, or are you going to allow society to tell you who you should like, love, and live with? Are you going to embrace your sense of self, and choose to do something well within your capability, and move to an area where you can be yourself? Are you going to tell others it's not okay to not accept you, and cut them off if they treat you badly? What's more important here? Your self, or others?

Kenny: thank you for sharing. You assuming you were horribly ill is the weirdest concept for me to imagine. But I'm assuming you knew what "gay" meant, maybe even without a term to match it, long before your first experience? I am having trouble wrapping my head around feeling something without a word or language to describe it. I guess I love words.


Anyway, to tack on the parenting thing, I don't intend to have my children-to-be raised to know that boys and girls are different. It's not just the sexual orientation thing. It's like what you said, Kenny, about the crafts, hunting, and woodmanship, and just these little details that are "supposed to be". Says who? I just had a conversation like this a few months ago with the SO. I asked him if he would buy Barbies for our future son, if he asked for them (I'm currently and have been asking lots of questions about his style of parenting). I'm proud to say that he answered he would. I would want to raise them to be true to themselves, be it sexual orientation, demeanor, play, dress, whatever. I would be thrilled if they can grow up to be confident, strong adults that know themselves and are not afraid to be themselves.
 

madelise

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kenny|1355072683|3326859 said:
Thanks all.
Yes, I'm groovy now but I wish society would catch up and this topic was relegated to the dustbin of history.
Equality in terms of marriage, taxes, inheritance laws, hospital visitation, and employment benefits would be a start.

Being gay doesn't matter any more than hair color matters.
It only matters to the person you partner with.

How did those organizations we can't mention ever get away with disguising bigotry as morality?


There are a lot of things that are "moral", that have painful secret agendas. One I can't stand at the moment is the Purity movement.

One man I have had the pleasure of speaking with, has shared that it costed him and his husband over $15k to buy as much legal protection to get them as close to the protection a straight married couple would have… except the purchased protections still aren't the same. That's some messed up, expensive system we have.

I remember I suggested you get your Advanced Healthcare Directive in line a while ago-- did you follow through with that one? At least that one's a free document.

I really question CA. We used to be one of the most "forward" states, yet with the gay rights thing, we've taken the back corner. This is my recent <^>WHAT?! thing: http://news.yahoo.com/judge-temporarily-blocks-calif-gay-therapy-law-043542231.html

If this crap doesn't get figured out in the next decade, I'm moving to Seattle.
 

Kaleigh

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Kenny,
Thank you for sharing that. Got me all welled up!!! Sniff!!!
 

Matata

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madelise|1355078843|3326908 said:
I think anyone who allows others to dictate how they should feel about themselves, and who they are, is a sheep.
Depends. While I agree, in general, that you're a victim if you let yourself be one, I reserve that assessment for people who I know have the tools to deal with adversity. When children in important developmental years are subjected to bullying, psychological, emotional, and physical abuse by family and peers, they become emotionally and psychologically damaged. Unless these children are rescued by someone who identifies the issues and teaches them tools to cope, they are often doomed to live the life of a victim. There are many people who spend their lives in counseling just trying to reconcile that they are worthy of life, love, respect. Sometimes they succeed, sometimes they die trying, sometimes they remain preyed upon by the wolves of society, and sometimes they become predators. Whichever way one turns out seems to depend on pure dumb luck.
 

madelise

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Matata|1355081071|3326930 said:
madelise|1355078843|3326908 said:
I think anyone who allows others to dictate how they should feel about themselves, and who they are, is a sheep.
Depends. While I agree, in general, that you're a victim if you let yourself be one, I reserve that assessment for people who I know have the tools to deal with adversity. When children in important developmental years are subjected to bullying, psychological, emotional, and physical abuse by family and peers, they become emotionally and psychologically damaged. Unless these children are rescued by someone who identifies the issues and teaches them tools to cope, they are often doomed to live the life of a victim. There are many people who spend their lives in counseling just trying to reconcile that they are worthy of life, love, respect. Sometimes they succeed, sometimes they die trying, sometimes they remain preyed upon by the wolves of society, and sometimes they become predators. Whichever way one turns out seems to depend on pure dumb luck.


Thank you for that aporia. Giving me an alternative explanation or contradiction (those that are psychologically damaged) helps me understand the contradiction, rather than just calling me ridiculous and offensive. I wrote about my opinion of those who are psychologically intact, and instead choose to subject themselves to torture, and do nothing but feel trapped and sorry for themselves. It happens often. I understand now that this isn't at all what it sounded like when I wrote it. I was turning a blind eye to those who are not psychologically stable, and have alternative coping practices. But yes, it was generalized, because if I wrote about every little footnote, my thoughts would be longer than the Bible!

I guess my whole thing extends to exactly the question it answers, then: will my children's sexual orientation be altered due to my parenting? No. I intend to teach them to be strong willed, and true to themselves, never allowing themselves to become prey to those societal wolves.
 

Matata

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madelise|1355082060|3326936 said:
Thank you for that aporia. Giving me an alternative explanation or contradiction (those that are psychologically damaged) helps me understand the contradiction, rather than just calling me ridiculous and offensive.

Ah, well, I thought I was engaging in discourse -- yanno, a thoughtful exchange of ideas. I shan't make the mistake again and will read your posts at their most superficial level. Regret getting to know you in-depth.
 

madelise

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Matata|1355082694|3326948 said:
madelise|1355082060|3326936 said:
Thank you for that aporia. Giving me an alternative explanation or contradiction (those that are psychologically damaged) helps me understand the contradiction, rather than just calling me ridiculous and offensive.

Ah, well, I thought I was engaging in discourse -- yanno, a thoughtful exchange of ideas. I shan't make the mistake again and will read your posts at their most superficial level. Regret getting to know you in-depth.


:confused:
I was being sincere. You gave me thoughts beyond my more surface, blanket comments. Huh? :confused:
 

JulieN

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As heard on "The Mindy Project"

MINDY (talking to high school-aged gay male): I want to let you know, it gets better.

HS BOY: How could it?

HS BOY (to athlete in varsity jacket, holding football): You wish, Steven.
 

Enerchi

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Kenny --- Thank you for sharing that wonderful story with us! I was quite touched by your experience - I'm happy that you felt complete (my words, not yours!) after that encounter. Ah...I hope you always look back with some measure of happiness on that event! :halo:
 

Cachette

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Kenny,

In our household, the issue of sexual orientation was never a conversation that was had with our kids; it was addressed like everything else in their lives. My husband and I only spoke to our three children (2 girls and one boy) of love between individuals not love between a man and a woman. Our kids have never, ever asked us questions about homosexuality and I believe it is because we ourselves never talked about it negatively or addressed it as an "issue" to talk about. I am very proud of my children as they are the most caring, gentle and tolerant of souls. I wish all of society was like this. What a pleasant world it would be.

Cachette :))
 

Matata

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madelise|1355083542|3326957 said:
Matata|1355082694|3326948 said:
madelise|1355082060|3326936 said:
Thank you for that aporia. Giving me an alternative explanation or contradiction (those that are psychologically damaged) helps me understand the contradiction, rather than just calling me ridiculous and offensive.

Ah, well, I thought I was engaging in discourse -- yanno, a thoughtful exchange of ideas. I shan't make the mistake again and will read your posts at their most superficial level. Regret getting to know you in-depth.


:confused:
I was being sincere. You gave me thoughts beyond my more surface, blanket comments. Huh? :confused:

Sorry M and to all other participants in this thread. I should not post whilst hungover. :oops:
 

madelise

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Matata|1355087266|3327009 said:
madelise|1355083542|3326957 said:
Matata|1355082694|3326948 said:
madelise|1355082060|3326936 said:
Thank you for that aporia. Giving me an alternative explanation or contradiction (those that are psychologically damaged) helps me understand the contradiction, rather than just calling me ridiculous and offensive.

Ah, well, I thought I was engaging in discourse -- yanno, a thoughtful exchange of ideas. I shan't make the mistake again and will read your posts at their most superficial level. Regret getting to know you in-depth.


:confused:
I was being sincere. You gave me thoughts beyond my more surface, blanket comments. Huh? :confused:

Sorry M and to all other participants in this thread. I should not post whilst hungover. :oops:

Lol *hugs. I am serious. Thank you. I like being objected to, with substance. I'm strongly opinionated, but I recognize that I am still developing. I appreciate it when someone gives me a chance to pause and think twice. I realize, due to your explanation, that my words were more generalized and ignored a specific population-- and it wasn't just my words, it was my mind. I did enjoy your conversation, and enjoy your in-depth-ness. :wavey: You had me reanalyzing my words over and over, wondering if I used my stupid "word of the day" wrongly. :confused: Yes, I have a stupid word of the day. :oops: I was super proud that I got to use it, too.
 

iLander

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Wow, Kenny that's like a whole "Blue Lagoon" kinda thing going on there. . .

Note to self; talk hubbie into something romantic like that . . . :Up_to_something:
 

iheartscience

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madelise|1355078843|3326908 said:
thing2of2|1355072025|3326852 said:
madelise|1355047899|3326698 said:
kenny|1354999621|3326365 said:
I'm old and honestly did not find out what "gay" meant till I was in my 20s.
"Nice" people in the 60s just did NOT discuss that.
Today kids are exposed to the subject early.

The conversation will come up naturally when I discuss this with my children-to-be. No need to talk birds and the bees with a 4 year old. 14? Look at the internet if you want to know the anatomical descriptions and practices. My approval, or non-approval, will not affect any one's sexual orientation. If someone allows their parent to dictate their sexual orientation, they're not gay or straight; they're sheep. And I'm sad for them.

Sheep? What? Someone who doesn't want to accept their own sexuality is someone who deals with hatred directed towards gay and lesbian people on a daily basis. Maybe they were raised in an environment where being gay is considered disgusting, unnatural, wrong. Maybe they're Christian and attend a church that tells them they'll go to hell if they're gay.

When I think of all the hateful things I've heard and seen directed towards gay people, it's hard to imagine that any of them would come out, ever. Calling people who don't come out sheep is ridiculous and offensive.

I noticed you like picking on the stuff I write. I think anyone who allows others to dictate how they should feel about themselves, and who they are, is a sheep. I don't care if you think it's ridiculous or offensive. That's your view, and it won't affect my view, because I'm not a sheep. I'm sorry, why are you letting me bother you? Because I shared the answer to a question Kenny asked us to share? Or do you actually care for me to explain that yes, it sucks for children who are otherwise dependent on their parents to provide them shelter and food for their first 18 years, and thus must "abide by their law".. But to spend their whole entire lives stuck, damned, in an area where they are subjected to hatred is their own weakness. People can move away from negativity. It's a personal choice to stay. I think people who are willing to subject their whole lives to oppression, who are basically dominating themselves by allowing their domination, yes, are sheep. Dealing with hatred does not mean you don't accept yourself. Accepting yourself secretly is still, nonetheless, accepting yourself, and recognizing your reality-- potentially creating that motivation to move, or change. Blindly allowing others to dictate your personality, your being, and your life is.. hey look! The herder is here! I know more than a handful of gays, male and female, who have moved away from hick-towns post-adulthood. I am happy that they felt their sense of self was more worthy than allowing themselves to be subjected to hate daily, for the rest of their lives, where they have to put on a mask of "straightness" just to be accepted. I love that they took a stand, announced who they were, told people who had an issue with it to kiss the dust, and took ownership of their sense of self. It all comes down to it being a personal choice: Are you strong enough to stand up for yourself, or are you going to allow society to tell you who you should like, love, and live with? Are you going to embrace your sense of self, and choose to do something well within your capability, and move to an area where you can be yourself? Are you going to tell others it's not okay to not accept you, and cut them off if they treat you badly? What's more important here? Your self, or others?

Huh? I honestly can't remember ever responding to a post by you before, so I assure you I am not trying to pick on you.

I didn't grow up in CA, which is obviously a more liberal area, I grew up in rural VA. I can assure that there is quite a bit of vitriol towards gay people there, and anyone who doesn't come out isn't a sheep, they're just faced with so much hatred they feel like they can't be true to themselves without losing their family and friends. When I returned for my high school reunion, a girl I had been friends with in middle school and early high school was shocked that I thought Sarah Palin was an idiot, because she had actually never met anyone who didn't love Sarah Palin.

It's great that you think if you were gay you would be out and proud, but I think it's extremely simplistic to assume that everyone else is willing to give the finger to their family, friends and community without a second thought.
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 26, 2003
Messages
22,143
kenny|1355072074|3326853 said:
Astonishingly, the concept that I could act on my secret attraction never entered my mind till around age 23 when I was in the military and stationed in the South Pacific and even then it was only because a safe ideal opportunity presented itself and the other guy took the lead...

I'm not making this up...
I was snorkeling on a deserted island (you had to swim out to it from a larger island that had a resort on it) when, underwater, I noticed another person.
He and I met and talked and walked up on the beach where he asked me to put sunblock on his back and the rest is history.
Finally I was a person.

I swear I'm not making this up.
It's the small island on the right.
I know lots of guys have horrible first experiences, but mine was quintessential.

I read about your early life with sadness and empathy, kenny. My early life was very painful, too, although I had two loving parents and was never beaten. Reading about your awakening brought me vicarious joy. Thank you for sharing your story.

Hugs,
Deb
:saint:
 

Sizzle

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
1,304
I was a young mom and always exposed my daughter to people of all kinds. She's now 19 and has ALWAYS been accepting. Several of her friends came out to her first because they knew her family would be embracing. I'm sad for people who don't have that or choose to shelter their children.
 

Kaleigh

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Messages
29,571
Having read the latest post from you Kenny, my brother and I lived it. Beatings all of it. But the one thing I will always cherish was when he was dying, he said why were you so loving to me. My brother used to beat me up. He hated me.


I said very calmly that I knew the pain he was going through. That I loved him and that I would always have his back.


Here on earth or in heaven. I don't know how I came to be strong. It's not in my nature to give up.
 

qtiekiki

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 14, 2004
Messages
3,880
Ditto JenniferW. My daughter is 4, and she has two classmates with gay parents. Some time over the summer at bedtime, she asked for Daddy John. At first, I didn't understand and I asked her. She said L (her classmate) has two daddies, and she wants a Daddy John like her. So I told her that every family is different, that some families have two daddies, some have a mom and a dad, and some have two mommies, and she has a mommy and a daddy who love her. She never questioned it; it's just normal to her.
 

cygnet

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 24, 2012
Messages
536
When I have children, I will definitely answer their questions about sexual orientation, and whenever we have a talk about "liking people" (and this may or may not be the sex ed talk), I will probably just say something like "sometimes boys like girls, and sometimes they like boys, and same with girls." I don't think it has to be a big deal. I don't remember exactly when I learned about homosexuality, but it certainly didn't bother me. Actually, I didn't even have any interest in boys until high school. Previous to that, I only liked girls. So I never really felt that there was anything strange about same-sex attraction. Like MC, I live in WA and also voted for marriage equality in the recent election. Multiple people in our neighborhood had put up signs against marriage equality. I am saddened that so many people are so very intolerant.

I do remember the first time I learned about transgender people, though. I was probably about 8 or 9. My family had some friends over and my stepmother pulled me aside to talk to me for a minute and said that she would appreciate it if I didn't make any comments about Mr. S wearing women's clothing, because Mr. S has always felt that he was actually a woman and he was now going public about it. Honestly, I am so severely faceblind that I didn't even know the dress-wearing person was Mr. S anyway, so I kind of shrugged it off and didn't care. When I was a very small child, I thought I was going to be a boy when I grew up (I have 4 brothers, so I thought I would be just like them) so I didn't really see that there was anything strange about Mr(s). S.

We will also talk to our future kids about different relationship styles at some point. Our best friends are a polyamorous couple. We don't think we need to shove it in our kids' faces or anything, but at some point, they may or may not notice that Uncle N has a wife and a girlfriend. If they ask, we'll just tell them that some people love one person and some people love multiple people, and either way is fine as long as everyone knows and agrees to it. I do feel that some people are just naturally drawn to nonmonogamous relationships and I would hate it if one of our children were in a relationship and did not feel it was right for them but did not understand why. We are monogamous but I think it is good to let them know that not all people are the same and there are other options. We want our kids to be accepting of all kinds of people and relationship styles.
 
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