Long time friend ripped into me

[iLander]

For the throat; gargle with scotch if it doesn't hurt. Warm, VERY salty water if it does.

Works.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

iLander, you have all sorts of good advice tonight!

Begonia, I fully agree with cutting off this relationship (cordial but distant). True friends do not beat up (verbally) on your kids.

 

[distracts]

Maggie does seem like a frenemy/fair-weather friend. Honestly? It would probably be best to distance yourself from Maggie. I've had some "friends" I've had to do that from and it hurts like heck but otoh I don't want to keep expending my energy caring for someone who doesn't care for me. If she's saying those things about your son to you, what is she saying to HER son, or even yours? Is she criticizing your son to his face? I would definitely limit contact, and make sure to chat with your son after he goes over to her house to hang out with hers, just in case she's saying any nutso stuff to him.

Also re: the headphone thing - I had a roommate like that my freshman year of college. She didn't have headphones and would get mad when she was watching tv while I slept and I woke up and asked her to turn it off. Believe me, at 3 am I could get snippy about it, too. Girl never could just put on a pair of headphones. I even bought her some with an ultra-long cord since the tv was at the foot of her bed.

There is one friend that I had a falling out with a few years ago, we worked it out a few months later, then just a couple of months ago it went bad again, so I ended it for good.

This made me want to threadjack but I'm starting a new post.

 

[movie zombie]

i agree with a lot of the above.
keeping the kids out of it is paramount.

set limits now. a quick phone call or leave a message: "i'm too hurt which means i'm too angry to talk to you right now. any conversation you wish to have with me will have to wait until after the holidays." mean it and stick to it. no contact. if she calls, hang up.

enjoy your new home and the holidays.

then after the holidays let her know that on no uncertain terms will you tolerate her saying things about your son. that she has crossed an unspoken line that should have been understood. that you should have called on such behavior sooner but now that she's gone over the top, you will no longer tolerate it. tell her you understand that while she may be upset about hearing your son's voice, that she is the one in control of her home and her computer and a headset would take care of that problem if indeed that really is a problem. tell her you are evaluating whether you want to be friends with her or if she is a mere acquaintance. tell her you've enjoyed her friendship and support. tell her you suspect there are things in her life that are making her lash out at you but that you will not be the scapegoat for her. then leave it alone for some period of time. if she contacts you and wants to work it out, you can then decide if its worth doing that or not. if she doesn't contact you, then she's made the choice.

but know that no matter what goes on, the kids will be effected. however, talk with Sam. tell him you're going to be doing this. and that it may effect him. tell him you don't want that to happen but you cannot stand by and allow someone to be disrespectful of you and him as well. teaching by example.

don't envy you this. not easy what i'm suggesting. but geez you do owe it to yourself and your family to enjoy the holidays in your new home w/o having to deal with someone else's emotional baggage!

good luck.

 

[Phoenix]

This "friend" sounds like a toxic person (not just a social climber, like someone else has said). I'd say DUMP HER, NOW!!

You don't need this toxic person in your life. I've had my fair share of toxic friends. I've just this week dumped a toxic so-called "friend". She was sucking the life out of me and she was/is generally toxic (not just to me but more importantly to her husband, her family). You'll find that toxic people are just that, toxic to everyone around them.

Life it too short to put up with cr*p!!

 

[Begonia]

Gargled - totally helped. Went for a swab anyway. Nasty virus.

Wrote some things out. Really helped organize my thoughts. Amazing the realizations that came from writing it out...I'm a visual learner so that put a lot in perspective for me.

I see a lot of patterns in her life, sadly. An inability to form close and lasting relationships, except with her kids. She is over-bonded with them and living her life through her daughter.

Well I'm going to take some more time before I contact her or answer her calls. I expect I will have to call her. One un-returned phone call and that's it with her. She is extremely proud.

Having the Mother of all Colds is a godsend really. Forces me to say no to dealing with this immediately - I need to feel better first.

As soon as Maggie and I do connect, I'll bring you all up to speed.

Thanks everyone, you're my

 

[partgypsy]

Sometimes, a person is going through a difficult time, and they dump on the people closest to them, and then they get through it. Sometimes, a person has some negative personality characteristics, but have enough other good things about them, or interactions with you that it makes the relationship worth saving. Only you know where this person lies on the spectrum.

Sometimes, a thing you see as a loss, ends up not being such a loss. With my friend, I really missed her. Many times, I wanted to call her. I felt lonely. While I haven't "replaced" her (I didn't get a new best friend), I have been hanging out with a variety of people, mostly neighbors I like. I have had more time to do (and complete) projects that I value but were always on the back burner. Most importantly, as a side benefit I am getting along much better with my husband. The internet exchange that ended the relationship, was me finally expressing things I didn't like about our relationship, and what I did want out of our relationship (I have brought this up before, but it never "stuck"). One of the biggies, was that often when we hung out it would go into negative complaining territory (her about her boyfriend and other friends, me about my husband) for HOURS. I don't mind catching up, but I didn't like the way it monopolized everything. Anyways, her reaction was not pretty.

I'm not a perfect friend, and have been doing alot of self-reflection how I contributed to all this, and thinking about the kind of things I want in my life. If I could just pick out the good things in our friendship and discard the rest, I would do so in a heart beat. But I tried, and I couldn't do it. Unless she changes, I don't think it's possible.
But most important I honestly didn't realize how much having these "bitch sessions" were coloring how I viewed my husband. Since I've stopped having these conversations with former friend, the relationship with my husband has really improved became more close.

 

[Begonia]

Sometimes, a person is going through a difficult time, and they dump on the people closest to them, and then they get through it. Sometimes, a person has some negative personality characteristics, but have enough other good things about them, or interactions with you that it makes the relationship worth saving. Only you know where this person lies on the spectrum.

Sometimes, a thing you see as a loss, ends up not being such a loss. With my friend, I really missed her. Many times, I wanted to call her. I felt lonely. While I haven't "replaced" her (I didn't get a new best friend), I have been hanging out with a variety of people, mostly neighbors I like. I have had more time to do (and complete) projects that I value but were always on the back burner. Most importantly, as a side benefit I am getting along much better with my husband. The internet exchange that ended the relationship, was me finally expressing things I didn't like about our relationship, and what I did want out of our relationship (I have brought this up before, but it never "stuck"). One of the biggies, was that often when we hung out it would go into negative complaining territory (her about her boyfriend and other friends, me about my husband) for HOURS. I don't mind catching up, but I didn't like the way it monopolized everything. Anyways, her reaction was not pretty.

I'm not a perfect friend, and have been doing alot of self-reflection how I contributed to all this, and thinking about the kind of things I want in my life. If I could just pick out the good things in our friendship and discard the rest, I would do so in a heart beat. But I tried, and I couldn't do it. Unless she changes, I don't think it's possible.
But most important I honestly didn't realize how much having these "bitch sessions" were coloring how I viewed my husband. Since I've stopped having these conversations with former friend, the relationship with my husband has really improved became more close.

The parallels are spooky pg!

We also spend a huge part of our time together kvetching about one thing after another, my husband included (I take responsibility for that).

Everything that you just wrote has been weighing on my mind for some time now. Is being with this person bringing out the best in me?

I take full responsibility for what I said during those sessions...but should rethink putting myself with her if I'm not going to be the best person I can be to those around me. Hard to put into words...

Anyway, everything you wrote stuck a chord!

 

[AmeliaG]

.
But most important I honestly didn't realize how much having these "bitch sessions" were coloring how I viewed my husband. Since I've stopped having these conversations with former friend, the relationship with my husband has really improved became more close.

The parallels are spooky pg!

We also spend a huge part of our time together kvetching about one thing after another, my husband included (I take responsibility for that).

Everything that you just wrote has been weighing on my mind for some time now. Is being with this person bringing out the best in me?

I take full responsibility for what I said during those sessions...but should rethink putting myself with her if I'm not going to be the best person I can be to those around me. Hard to put into words...

Anyway, everything you wrote stuck a chord!

This is really profound ladies.

I'm seeing a life coach who's encouraging me to re evaluate my relationships and move away from the ones that make it harder to be my best. His litmus test is what do I do for myself after being with them. Positive influences energize you and make it easier to do what is good for you. Negative relationships bring you down; after being with them, you're de energized and find it harder to do good things for yourself.

I realized that I had cut off a relationship like that. I had connected with this person through anger; both of us had a lot of pent up anger. Whenever we were with each other we fed each other's. anger I was always tired after being with her and my stomach was in knots.

I had to break it off. I don't think either of us were a good influence on each other. I think I learned and moved towards healthier friendships. I don't think she did; she was pissed at me for breaking it off.

 

[partgypsy]

Yes, I've done alot of self-reflection as well about the kind of person I want to be. It wasn't just her, I didn't like who I was becoming. I used our bitch sessions as a way to cope with stress, but it's not a particularly positive way to deal in the long term. Since I don't have that easy "outlet" I've had to handle things differently, including setting boundaries and limits with people who are giving me difficulties, and with my husband not just complaining to other people, but us working through things together, and also showing each other more affection and appreciation.

So it's been sad, but educational too.

 

[House Cat]

Oh Begonia, I send you so much love! These experiences with frenemies can be so very painful when we want a friendship to WORK and it just doesn't.

What I see is this woman crossing very intimate boundaries to see what she can get away with. She has put down the most SACRED person in your life, your son. Now, the ball is in your court. What will you do? Will you take it? Will you be her doormat? Surely, if she can put down your son, you will put up with ANYTHING!

Now, ask yourself this question, if you could have an "ideal" friendship (with anyone), what would it look like? Would it consist of any kind of the drama or second guessing that this "friendship" possesses? What qualities would it have? Does this friendship that you have with this frenemy REALLY meet your needs for companionship or is it filling a void of time and loneliness? If she weren't in your life, would you have more time to seek out more fulfilling ventures? Would you feel empowered if you walked away from this "friendship" once and for all, but did so knowing that it wasn't an angry decision, but a decision out of health and loving the self?

I hope you are able to sort all of this out in a way that suits you best. <3

 

[Begonia]

Whoa. So much to think about.

PG...using those bitch sessions as a way to cope with stress...that sounds dead on for me as well. Then I come away from those sessions feeling disappointed in myself. Not all of our time together was like that, but a fair bit. As Amelia realized, I had connected with her through anger as well. At times I would try to steer it toward more positive areas, but inevitably it would end up back there. Maggie does angry and resentful better than anyone I know.

Why did I wait to pitch the relationship? Well we've known each other for years and are almost like family in some ways. I had ended too many friendships that (in hindsight) should have been kept. Maybe I lost my ability to see clearly what was salvageable and what wasn't. I am in the middle years of my life and questioning just about everything. Don't minimize the mid-life crisis until you are in it...

Thanks for the kind energy House Cat. A profound question you posed was is this friendship filling a void of time and loneliness? I believe so. I lost my Mum and several close friends and she lost her husband and the same close friends. We had both distanced ourselves from several key people in our lives, and bonded over that.

It feels like attacking my boy was a test alright. Will I put up with it? Will I say anything? Will I let it slide? I can imagine what the future will hold it I don't say anything. It could get more abusive. Of course I will do and say something - I'm just getting as much feedback and advice before I decide what to do. A wise Tao Master once said to me that you have to ask yourself when dealing with friends and issues: is this the right time? are you the right person? do you have the right words? Of course on the first two, and I'm working on the last.

I'm learning a lot here.

 

[VapidLapid]

Talking to her, explaining your position, your feelings, whatever, these things are options only if you are hoping to save the relationship. Having her come to some realization of her effect or her toxicity, or anything is no benefit for you and only muddles the message and keeps you involved. Get what you want (which I think is to get out) and that's it. Drift apart without confrontation if confrontation will get you nowhere. Just phase her out. You don't need to have the satisfaction of telling her off. You don't need that satisfaction of seeing her comprehend her faults in things. Your only goal should be drifting away, as many friendships do, without further incident. That way the kids won't be stressed, might not notice, and if they really want to be friends they will be anyway. You are busy living your life, you do not have to be available to her. When you get to that place where there is nothing you want from her, or for her, she will have no power, and no effect.

 

[minousbijoux]

Talking to her, explaining your position, your feelings, whatever, these things are options only if you are hoping to save the relationship. Having her come to some realization of her effect or her toxicity, or anything is no benefit for you and only muddles the message and keeps you involved. Get what you want (which I think is to get out) and that's it. Drift apart without confrontation if confrontation will get you nowhere. Just phase her out. You don't need to have the satisfaction of telling her off. You don't need that satisfaction of seeing her comprehend her faults in things. Your only goal should be drifting away, as many friendships do, without further incident. That way the kids won't be stressed, might not notice, and if they really want to be friends they will be anyway. You are busy living your life, you do not have to be available to her. When you get to that place where there is nothing you want from her, or for her, she will have no power, and no effect.

I could not have said this better and agree completely. At this point, its about doing what you need to do to take care of you. You have learned. Perhaps she has too, in which case she can broach it with you some day in a sincerely apologetic manner. More likely, she has not or does not care to examine herself; you have no responsibility to be her life coach.

I am so sorry, Begonia, but know you are right to be aware of it, raise it, and try to move on.

 

[iLander]

.
But most important I honestly didn't realize how much having these "bitch sessions" were coloring how I viewed my husband. Since I've stopped having these conversations with former friend, the relationship with my husband has really improved became more close.

The parallels are spooky pg!

We also spend a huge part of our time together kvetching about one thing after another, my husband included (I take responsibility for that).

Everything that you just wrote has been weighing on my mind for some time now. Is being with this person bringing out the best in me?

I take full responsibility for what I said during those sessions...but should rethink putting myself with her if I'm not going to be the best person I can be to those around me. Hard to put into words...

Anyway, everything you wrote stuck a chord!

This is really profound ladies.

I'm seeing a life coach who's encouraging me to re evaluate my relationships and move away from the ones that make it harder to be my best. His litmus test is what do I do for myself after being with them. Positive influences energize you and make it easier to do what is good for you. Negative relationships bring you down; after being with them, you're de energized and find it harder to do good things for yourself.

I realized that I had cut off a relationship like that. I had connected with this person through anger; both of us had a lot of pent up anger. Whenever we were with each other we fed each other's. anger I was always tired after being with her and my stomach was in knots.

I had to break it off. I don't think either of us were a good influence on each other. I think I learned and moved towards healthier friendships. I don't think she did; she was pissed at me for breaking it off.

I think you are all a bit too easily influenced. A strong sense of self is important in this world. You have to decide who you are and what you stand for. If you love your husband, and respect him, and respect yourself, you wouldn't want to have a conversation denigrating him (a conversation that helps you work through issues is a different thing). Just like you wouldn't want him to talk poorly about you. Think how terrible you'd feel.

I tell my DD, that "misery loves company" is completely true. People that have bad relationships, or do drugs, or steal cars, or Whatever, have a certain level of guilt that comes from these activities. To make themselves feel better, they seek out people that will reinforce their negative activity and validate something that (deep down) they know is wrong. You don't want to be with these people, they will bring out negativity in you.

Deciding that you are not a negative person, (see paragraph 1 ) helps you to recognize these miserable people and avoid them.

 

[AmeliaG]

As Amelia realized, I had connected with her through anger as well. At times I would try to steer it toward more positive areas, but inevitably it would end up back there. Maggie does angry and resentful better than anyone I know.

Oh God, that is EXACTLY how my former friendship ended. We were sitting at an outdoor cafe and my friend had started this tirade of the people who'd done her wrong. I listened for awhile but when I tried to steer the conversation in a more positive vein, she just got angrier. I realized then and there I did not want to be around such extended anger again. I walked out and we never spoke again.

 

[AmeliaG]

I think you are all a bit too easily influenced.

I think you're making a hell of a generalization about me based on what you've read here about ONE friendship that's been over quite a while.

 

[iLander]

I think you are all a bit too easily influenced.

I think you're making a hell of a generalization about me based on what you've read here about ONE friendship that's been over quite a while.

True, it is a generalization. I should have said "these friends were too much of an influence on you if they affected your feelings towards your SO's".

 

[AmeliaG]

I think you are all a bit too easily influenced.

I think you're making a hell of a generalization about me based on what you've read here about ONE friendship that's been over quite a while.

True, it is a generalization. I should have said "these friends were too much of an influence on you if they affected your feelings towards your SO's".

Ah, now I think I see the disconnect. I didn't have an SO when I was friends with this person- my anger was of an entirely different variety.

Still, even in Begonia's and part gypsy's case, I don't think it's a matter of being too influenceable. Sometimes we get what we want in friendships even though what we want is not so good for us. in my case I wanted to have my anger validated without having to do anything constructive about it. I had to change what I wanted out of the friendship before I could realize i had to end it.

 

[asscherisme]

I'm sorry this happened. This woman is NOT your friend. You are someone who entertains her when she feels like it.

I have had people like this in my past and it took my getting a bit older and building up my confidence and self esteem to see them for what they are, users. Insecure and need to put down others to feel better about themselves. Add a touch of instability and you can sum up people like that.

I have learned the hard way to not become close friends with my kids friends moms. It can get awkward at times when they try to persue friendships with me but I have been burned in the past and when the parent freindship falls apart, the kids friendship falls apart as well (or vice versa). So I do my best to maintain a cordial firendly aquantance type relationship with my children's freinds moms.

Please dont' get sucked in if she trys to get friendly with you again (and I'm sure she will).

I use to be a fan of Oprah and one of my favorite quotes from her (that I later learned was actually Maya Angelo) was:

"When people show you who they are, believe them".

I love, love that line and tell my kids that.

She has shown you who she is.

 

[asscherisme]

I'm sorry this happened. This woman is NOT your friend. You are someone who entertains her when she feels like it.

I have had people like this in my past and it took my getting a bit older and building up my confidence and self esteem to see them for what they are, users. Insecure and need to put down others to feel better about themselves. Add a touch of instability and you can sum up people like that.

I have learned the hard way to not become close friends with my kids friends moms. It can get awkward at times when they try to persue friendships with me but I have been burned in the past and when the parent freindship falls apart, the kids friendship falls apart as well (or vice versa). So I do my best to maintain a cordial firendly aquantance type relationship with my children's freinds moms.

Please dont' get sucked in if she trys to get friendly with you again (and I'm sure she will).

I use to be a fan of Oprah and one of my favorite quotes from her (that I later learned was actually Maya Angelo) was:

"When people show you who they are, believe them".

I love, love that line and tell my kids that.

She has shown you who she is.

 

[Begonia]

I think you are all a bit too easily influenced.

I think you're making a hell of a generalization about me based on what you've read here about ONE friendship that's been over quite a while.

True, it is a generalization. I should have said "these friends were too much of an influence on you if they affected your feelings towards your SO's".

Ah, now I think I see the disconnect. I didn't have an SO when I was friends with this person- my anger was of an entirely different variety.

Still, even in Begonia's and part gypsy's case, I don't think it's a matter of being too influenceable. Sometimes we get what we want in friendships even though what we want is not so good for us. in my case I wanted to have my anger validated without having to do anything constructive about it. I had to change what I wanted out of the friendship before I could realize i had to end it.

Yes to the above.

I'm always one to tackle those difficult areas of your life and shine a light on things, but for a time (with Maggie) I stopped doing that. It was just easy, and I was in a stressful part of my life. I take responsibility for not handling my anger in a constructive way, but am questioning if being with her is a bit like an alcoholic sitting in a bar. Why put yourself there?

I keep trying Amelia to bring some fun into our relationship, and for a brief time it works. Inevitably things go toward the dark side. I read your thoughts about 'extended anger' and another bell went off about Maggie. You have a better ability to put your thoughts into words than I do...it's always been a problem for me. Just isn't my strength.

 

[Begonia]

I'm sorry this happened. This woman is NOT your friend. You are someone who entertains her when she feels like it.

I have had people like this in my past and it took my getting a bit older and building up my confidence and self esteem to see them for what they are, users. Insecure and need to put down others to feel better about themselves. Add a touch of instability and you can sum up people like that.

I have learned the hard way to not become close friends with my kids friends moms. It can get awkward at times when they try to persue friendships with me but I have been burned in the past and when the parent freindship falls apart, the kids friendship falls apart as well (or vice versa). So I do my best to maintain a cordial firendly aquantance type relationship with my children's freinds moms.

Please dont' get sucked in if she trys to get friendly with you again (and I'm sure she will).

I use to be a fan of Oprah and one of my favorite quotes from her (that I later learned was actually Maya Angelo) was:

"When people show you who they are, believe them".

I love, love that line and tell my kids that.

She has shown you who she is.

I just hate that part of her - the need to put others down. Quite honestly, I don't like myself when I'm around her either. I take responsibility for that, but I can do something about whether I choose to continue to be around her in the future.

Wise counsel about being friends with Mothers of your kids friends. This has been a big eye-opener in that regard!

I also remember a show with Oprah and Maya Angelo (which I think about often). Maya was describing how she is selective about who she allows into her home - cautious about what kind of energy she allows into her sanctuary. If the energy of the person is not good, they must leave. I think about extrapolating that to one's life in general. The space you inhabit in this world is your home, and one must be careful who they surround themselves with.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I think this incident needs a reply. Even if you discontinue the friendship, let her know her criticism of your son is unwarranted, and unjustified. Point out the headphones and grades, just to let her know that she may not criticize your son, even if the boys continue their friendship. Don't be angry, just state it.

I don't think anybody should be surprised that we have patterns that occur in our relationships. I found one of mine was also just spend criticizing others. If you have been doing it for yrs, it doesn't change overnite or sometimes ever. I ended that relationship and never regretted it.

I'm glad you are giving it some time. I think you should not be pushed into a reply until you are ready. But a reply is necessary.
Just do it calmly, protect your son and she may surprise you and see herself a little better.


Until then, enjoy the small things, enjoy you son, and don't dwell overly much on it.

Annette