At a loss what to say to my son

[Begonia]

Hey all, need a bit of wisdom...

My son is 14 and just starting High School (grade 9). He is having trouble with a friend and I need some feedback.

He wants to distance himself from his friend, as they don't seem to have much in common anymore, and doesn't know what to do about it, or if he should distance himself.

It's a long story that needs to be told I think.

My son(we'll call him Sam) moved middle schools mid grade 7 with another boy (we'll call him Kevin). They had been friends for years and changed schools at the same time, but for different reasons. After a few weeks at the new school, Kevin dumped my son as a friend. It was very lonely and a painful time for Sam, as he was also being bullied by other boys at his new school. An unhappy child is an unhappy family.

A parent at the new school introduced her son to my boy Sam (we'll call her son Matt). They hung out for the rest of grade 7. Matt has some learning and behavior challenges, but they got along well enough I thought.

Into grade 8, Sam (my boy) started to make 5 or 6 new friends. They all hung out together, so I assumed they were a crowd of friends .

These lads have gone on to High School. It's week two, and my boy is slowly transitioning. He was accepted into a neat program, which will give him interesting challenges and opportunities, not to mention new friends as well. Never a bad thing to have more friends.

Today, Sam (my son) tells me that he has been having troubles with Matt for a long time now. That he and Matt don't have that much in common, and that Matt has been acting inappropriately (at times) and immaturely (at times) at the new High School. Sam is trying to make a good impression and is worried about attracting unwelcome attention by being with Matt. Additionally he says that the other lads don't care for Matt, have never cared for Matt, and Sam is worried about losing their friendship, as they won't hang around with him when Matt is there.

I asked what the inappropriate behavior is. Sam says that he will say mean things in earshot of other kids like "that chick is ugly", or make grossly sexual comments to the other lads in a loud voice. Matt has some maturity issues which may or may not be linked to his learning disability. I do know that his home life is not great - the parents have several issues that trouble them.

Sam has been hinting that things are not well between them for a while now. I wasn't listening. Now I am.

I guess my question is what, if anything, do I say/tell him? He's only 14 and came to me with it today. I listened mostly, and then thought about it the whole day.

See I know what it is like to be the person that gets walked away from. So does my son Sam.

My first reaction was to tell him not to walk away/put distance in the friendship.

Yet he says that they have never really had a lot in common, and that he just wants to make some new friends, or hang with this crowd of boys.

Now Matt is following my boy at High School during the lunch hours, and it makes Sam uncomfortable. If he stays with Matt, the others leave, but he doesn't want to take off on Matt.

You see, I think Matt may have gone to this High School to follow this group of boys. There is another HS much closer to his home that is a much better match for his learning style and needs.

I said little and listened, but I did suggest that he use the "I feel" statements when Matt acts inappropriately. "I feel embarassed when you say things like that about other people". Beyond that I said little.

I know what it is like to be the person walked away from...

 

[movie zombie]

oh, my.....getting late and time for bed but i wanted to say my first reaction is that the best he can do is tell Matt his behavior is inappropriate when it happens even if the other guys hear it. perhaps take him aside and tell him this is what is going to happen when/if the behavior occurs in his presence and the call him on it each and every time and walk away. if its inappropriate, its in appropriate and he shouldn't associate himself with Matt. that's what Matt needs to hear, understand and have reinforced.

granted this is not easy for anyone much less a 14 year old. if he lays the ground rules ahead of time as to what the relationship is or is not and what behaviors he will or will not tolerate in his presence, Sam will be leaving the choice to Matt as to whether the relationship continues albeit at an acquaintence level and it lets the other boys know he doesn't agree with Matt.

unforunately, if mat has learning disability problems it is possible that he may channel all his resentments and anger onto Sam and start not just following him around but harrassing him as well.

 

[Enerchi]

That's a tough situation, Begonia.

It could be a lot to put on a 14 year old boy, to try and deal with it on his own. I think its wonderful if he's got the confidence within himself to even say to Matt, "dude, you're acting kinda weird - chill a bit, okay? It makes me feel uncomfortable when you say _____/ or when you do__________" If he can get that much out, that would be fantastic. Beyond that, he can't fix anyone else and he's got to focus on education and survival in the HS jungle.

We had a situation with one of our kids when in gr 9, and they became a victim. We did speak with the school, they watched the situation and monitored but it still made it sooooo uncomfortable for my child to go to school, to hang out with others (word travels like wildfire on the wind, at that age group...) and just feel accepted. Talking to his parents would NOT be adviseable. Parents will always defend their 'young', so to speak, just like you'd be doing, so that would be unproductive and could have some further fall out that may be worse for your son.

Start with Sam talking to Matt first but also I'd encourage you to get the school involved in some way. Let them handle the bullying and if this is not the appropriate school for the other boy, they can make/suggest relocating to a different school.

Good luck Begonia, this is a rough one. You're a great mom for being involved - lots aren't! Keep us posted???

 

[TooPatient]

Begonia,

I wish I had some advice, but I'm new to dealing with teenagers so really don't know what to say. Just wanted to send you some big hugs as you deal with this delicate situation.

I've been the one walked away from too so I know that it hurts. I've also been the one to walk away so I know that sometimes it can't be avoided.

 

[Begonia]

oh, my.....getting late and time for bed but i wanted to say my first reaction is that the best he can do is tell Matt his behavior is inappropriate when it happens even if the other guys hear it. perhaps take him aside and tell him this is what is going to happen when/if the behavior occurs in his presence and the call him on it each and every time and walk away. if its inappropriate, its in appropriate and he shouldn't associate himself with Matt. that's what Matt needs to hear, understand and have reinforced.granted this is not easy for anyone much less a 14 year old. if he lays the ground rules ahead of time as to what the relationship is or is not and what behaviors he will or will not tolerate in his presence, Sam will be leaving the choice to Matt as to whether the relationship continues albeit at an acquaintence level and it lets the other boys know he doesn't agree with Matt.
unforunately, if mat has learning disability problems it is possible that he may channel all his resentments and anger onto Sam and start not just following him around but harrassing him as well.

Thanks MZ - for your wisdom.

Those thoughts were floating around in my head, but sometimes I just can't access them ya know? Not good with words.

The parallels to Sams situation last year when he was the person being distanced from, doesn't escape me. I believe the Universe teaches us lessons, and I can't help but wonder if (she) isn't testing us to see what we learned from last year...

I identify with the underdog always.

Sometimes I may perceive an underdog situation when that isn't the case however...in the past, I have stuck with relationships or permitted unacceptable behavior for far too long (see Frenemy post). I must be careful not to encourage undercompensating or overcompensating reactions on the part of my kids...

 

[fleur-de-lis]

Begonia, I think MovieZombie's on the right track on this one; why? The way 9th grade boys communicate is vastly different from the way adult females covey information. This isn't a place for "I feel" statements-- Sam and Matt aren't in a marriage which is struggling. Blunt love, as it were, fits the dynamic: "Matt! Dude! That's uncool. Cut it out!", and then allow Matt to figure out for himself how he's going to respond to this peer guidance. Encourage Sam to be strong, but not mean and to not attack Matt personally. Bluntly addressing Matt's behavior, however, is appropriate. EITHER Matt's going to get that he needs to clean up his act to keep his friend (which benefits both Matt and Sam), or he's going to be obstinate, give Sam pushback, and lose Sam as a friend. (Sam will weather it fine, by the way, assuming the new group sees Sam merely saying what they're thinking.)

 

[Begonia]

That's a tough situation, Begonia.

It could be a lot to put on a 14 year old boy, to try and deal with it on his own. I think its wonderful if he's got the confidence within himself to even say to Matt, "dude, you're acting kinda weird - chill a bit, okay? It makes me feel uncomfortable when you say _____/ or when you do__________" If he can get that much out, that would be fantastic. Beyond that, he
We had a situation with one of our kids when in gr 9, and they became a victim. We did speak with the school, they watched the situation and monitored but it still made it sooooo uncomfortable for my child to go to school, to hang out with others (word travels like wildfire on the wind, at that age group...) and just feel accepted. Talking to his parents would NOT be adviseable. Parents will always defend their 'young', so to speak, just like you'd be doing, so that would be unproductive and could have some further fall out that may be worse for your son.

Start with Sam talking to Matt first but also I'd encourage you to get the school involved in some way. Let them handle the bullying and if this is not the appropriate school for the other boy, they can make/suggest relocating to a different school.Good luck Begonia, this is a rough one. You're a great mom for being involved - lots aren't! Keep us posted???

Hi E,

That's the route we are taking so far. My boy is quite small physically, and not the most confident. He has a tremendous sense of humor and is bright and thoughtful. He has a way with animals. He too identifies with those that don't feel like they fit in. I can see it has taken him a long time to speak up - that he has stuck with Matt for a long time, and now is ready to branch out and make more friends - not be exclusive.

Sorry I was unclear E...the bullying took place over a year ago, and things are good in that department (thank God). The second time he has been bullied...I think that is part of what makes him a sensitive lad and partly what attracts the bullying. In High School, the girls seem to like that side of him .

I ask myself one question always when I consider spending time with someone or developing a friendship...do they have a kind heart? The outside stuff - age, sex, color, size, economic class, religion - that doesn't matter. Do they have a kind heart?

I hope that is what I am teaching my sons.

You are so right about staying away from the parents. I don't want to run interference for my boy either, and so am just waiting in the wings and listening a lot...

 

[Begonia]

Begonia, I think MovieZombie's on the right track on this one; why? The way 9th grade boys communicate is vastly different from the way adult females covey information. This isn't a place for "I feel" statements-- Sam and Matt aren't in a marriage which is struggling. Blunt love, as it were, fits the dynamic: "Matt! Dude! That's uncool. Cut it out!", and then allow Matt to figure out for himself how he's going to respond to this peer guidance. Encourage Sam to be strong, but not mean and to not attack Matt personally. Bluntly addressing Matt's behavior, however, is appropriate. EITHER Matt's going to get that he needs to clean up his act to keep his friend (which benefits both Matt and Sam), or he's going to be obstinate, give Sam pushback, and lose Sam as a friend.

Flower,

From what I gather, Sam has been doing the "hey dude, that soo isn't cool, cut it out" route. I guess it isn't working that well. I can't help but wonder if the learning disability isn't starting to become more apparent in HS. Many of Matt's behaviors were appropriate in MS, but aren't in HS. I could be wrong about that however. It could just be a slight lag in maturity, confidence issues etc.

Who was that wise gal that said a while back to say what you mean, without saying it meanly?

That last bit. Totally.

I was thinking about this all day. It is so important for kids to feel supported at all times, but when you first start HS? What a killer time (on Matts part) to have these friendship concerns. I also have to think about my boy though - this is a distraction for him as well.

I normally wouldn't get feedback on such an issue, but I remember what happened to us as a family just over a year ago, and wanted to make sure that we encourage Sam to do the right thing. Regrets are a bummer.

 

[Begonia]

Begonia,

I wish I had some advice, but I'm new to dealing with teenagers so really don't know what to say. Just wanted to send you some big hugs as you deal with this delicate situation.

I've been the one walked away from too so I know that it hurts. I've also been the one to walk away so I know that sometimes it can't be avoided.

Thanks TP


Me too, just recently in fact.

 

[movie zombie]

Begonia, from what you're saying it could be that Matt is way immature for his age in addition to a disability issue. perhaps it is time to call a school counselor's attention to it....if schools still have counselors.

also, it may become necessary for Sam to be explicit when he calls Matt out on his behavior. doing so in a friendly manner may not be working. it may be time to say "seriously, dude, i don't want to be around you right now. i've told you i don't like that kind of talk/behavior. bye."

i've been "rejected" and i've also had to "reject". its never easy, is it? and, Begonia, especially when one identifies with the underdog.......sigh.

but if Sam is going to construct the HS life he wants for himself, it happens now. once he gets a rep for being with Matt, he won't be able to shake it. sounds like he's been giving Matt an appropriate response but it is time to step it up. and it may become necessary to just flat out take Matt aside and tell him the friendship is over. which means walking away every time he approaches.

i know i know.....but at this point in time Sam is the priority.

 

[Haven]

Begonia--I'm sorry to hear your son is struggling with this.

As a former HS teacher I can tell you that your son is not alone. A lot of reshuffling of friends happens during freshman year, for many kids. It's also not unusual for kids to outgrow each other at that point--they all mature at their own pace, and it sounds like Matt is lagging behind your son at the moment.

I like the advice you've received to help your son find the words that are appropriate for his age--"Dude, you're acting like an 8th grader" is probably going to resonate more than, "I feel embarrassed when you behave like that."

I'm not sure if it would really be your place to do so, but if you are very concerned about Matt you could contact the head of the school's guidance department and tell her you're worried that his behavior is alienating him from his peers. Every school I've worked in has had a process for teachers to flag students when they're in need of some guidance--for everything from anti-social behavior that might signal larger problems to students who have such bad hygiene it's making them pariahs in the classroom. The school likely has a team qualified to work with this young man and to help him with his transition.

I think your son is very lucky to have you.

 

[Begonia]

Begonia, from what you're saying it could be that Matt is way immature for his age in addition to a disability issue.
also, it may become necessary for Sam to be explicit when he calls Matt out on his behavior. doing so in a friendly manner may not be working. it may be time to say "seriously, dude, i don't want to be around you right now. i've told you i don't like that kind of talk/behavior. bye."

i've been "rejected" and i've also had to "reject". its never easy, is it? and, Begonia, especially when one identifies with the underdog.......sigh.

but if Sam is going to construct the HS life he wants for himself, it happens now. once he gets a rep for being with Matt, he won't be able to shake it. sounds like he's been giving Matt an appropriate response but it is time to step it up. and it may become necessary to just flat out take Matt aside and tell him the friendship is over. which means walking away every time he approaches.

i know i know.....but at this point in time Sam is the priority.

Yes...

Dawning realizations.

Yes...

 

[Begonia]

Begonia--I'm sorry to hear your son is struggling with this.

As a former HS teacher I can tell you that your son is not alone. A lot of reshuffling of friends happens during freshman year, for many kids. It's also not unusual for kids to outgrow each other at that point--they all mature at their own pace, and it sounds like Matt is lagging behind your son at the moment.

I like the advice you've received to help your son find the words that are appropriate for his age--"Dude, you're acting like an 8th grader" is probably going to resonate more than, "I feel embarrassed when you behave like that."I'm not sure if it would really be your place to do so, but if you are very concerned about Matt you could contact the head of the school's guidance department and tell her you're worried that his behavior is alienating him from his peers. Every school I've worked in has had a process for teachers to flag students when they're in need of some guidance--for everything from anti-social behavior that might signal larger problems to students who have such bad hygiene it's making them pariahs in the classroom. The school likely has a team qualified to work with this young man and to help him with his transition.

I think your son is very lucky to have you.

Haven,

So good to know about the reshuffling bit. We thought that might be the case, but to have confirmation is a relief.

The way we approached the "I feel" statements is "Dude, it's embarassing for me/us when you do that". I explained the whole "I feel" approach and then encouraged him to adapt it to how men-in-training talk to each other. However the blunt "Dude, you're acting like an 8th grader" is likely the more appropriate one of all...

I am concerned about Matt, as I believe his parents chose the wrong HS for him. That they followed this group of boys and now this lad may end up being alone. That's harsh. I will certainly consider that further (calling a counsellor) as this unfolds.

Thank you for the last one Haven. I'm bumbling my way through this life of parenting. I've made so many mistakes with my relationships, I want to be very careful what direction (if any) I should give when life situations arise.

 

[Haven]

Begonia--You are doing a great job. Many parents of young teens can't even name their son's friends, let alone give any background on them. The fact that your son is talking to you about this issue is a huge sign that you are, indeed, one of the good ones. And so is your son. Whatever you're doing, keep on doing it.

 

[Gypsy]

Begonia, from what you're saying it could be that Matt is way immature for his age in addition to a disability issue. perhaps it is time to call a school counselor's attention to it....if schools still have counselors.

also, it may become necessary for Sam to be explicit when he calls Matt out on his behavior. doing so in a friendly manner may not be working. it may be time to say "seriously, dude, i don't want to be around you right now. i've told you i don't like that kind of talk/behavior. bye."

i've been "rejected" and i've also had to "reject". its never easy, is it? and, Begonia, especially when one identifies with the underdog.......sigh.

but if Sam is going to construct the HS life he wants for himself, it happens now. once he gets a rep for being with Matt, he won't be able to shake it. sounds like he's been giving Matt an appropriate response but it is time to step it up. and it may become necessary to just flat out take Matt aside and tell him the friendship is over. which means walking away every time he approaches.

i know i know.....but at this point in time Sam is the priority.

I agree with MZ. I think Sam is trying to make a very adult decision and to give him credit, he's taking time to come to you and ask you your advice. This is great.

I think Sam needs to work on his boundaries with Matt. At what point does that line into "not acceptable behavior" get crossed. And how do you make it clear to those around you that in order to respect YOU and to be your friend, they have to behave in way that if appropriate to you.

MATT can behave any way he wants. BUT if he wants to behave that way, he can't have Sam. He needs to make a choice.

I think Sam is really smart in recognizing this. And if Matt doesn't respect the boundaries Sam reasonably puts up, then Matt loses Sam. That's MATT's CHOICE. It's not Sam's. Sam is giving Matt a choice, as a friend. But if Matt choses to not comply-- HE is rejecting. And Sam needs to walk away. And that's on Matt, not on Sam.

 

[texaskj]

Wow, Begonia, I think it's amazing your son feels like he can come to you with this problem. Kudos to you.
Even at his young age, I would tell him that sometimes people aren't meant to be in our lives forever; friends come and go depending on what stage you're at in life. He sounds like he's got his head on straight. I'd also tell him to go with his gut.

 

[swingirl]

Wow, Begonia, I think it's amazing your son feels like he can come to you with this problem. Kudos to you.
Even at his young age, I would tell him that sometimes people aren't meant to be in our lives forever; friends come and go depending on what stage you're at in life. He sounds like he's got his head on straight. I'd also tell him to go with his gut.

This I agree with 100%. He is learning life lessons about trusting his instincts when it comes to people. If he doesn't like someone, doesn't have much in common, and doesn't see them as equals he should not have to worry about changing them to fit in. The age span for when boys mature is much broader than for girls. When boys enter puberty they go at very different rates. Mental and physical maturity doesn't happen at the same rate. (man body, boy brain or vice versa)

My experience with my son, who was a late bloomer, is that when boys get to high school and hit puberty there is a regrouping. Kids who "played" together since kindergarten split off into new groups. My son wasn't "immature" but he was slow entering puberty and probably had young behaviors that couldn't be changed by someone telling him. Socially high school was slow for my son and he had only a few good friends.

Bottom line, you can not force friendships and a 14 year old can't be responsible for another kid's level of maturity. Allow your son to distance himself and not feel guilty. Actually, I would applaud him making the decision to move on from an uncomfortable situation.

 

[Enerchi]

What's your gut telling you, Begonia, about getting the school involved? Have you considered talking to the guidance department? Ideally, these things *should* be dealt with between the parties involved, but I doubt that 2 (or more) 14 year olds have the sophistication and social skills to resolve this! I think a lot of times, things CAN resolve on their own... but its so rough to watch it happen.

Sam sounds like a pretty level headed kid who's very kind hearted. The hard lesson for him is changing directions in a relationship. I was thinking... what was that phrase...?

"Friends come into our lives for a reason, a season or a lifetime"

 

[Begonia]

Begonia, from what you're saying it could be that Matt is way immature for his age in addition to a disability issue. perhaps it is time to call a school counselor's attention to it....if schools still have counselors.

also, it may become necessary for Sam to be explicit when he calls Matt out on his behavior. doing so in a friendly manner may not be working. it may be time to say "seriously, dude, i don't want to be around you right now. i've told you i don't like that kind of talk/behavior. bye."

i've been "rejected" and i've also had to "reject". its never easy, is it? and, Begonia, especially when one identifies with the underdog.......sigh.

but if Sam is going to construct the HS life he wants for himself, it happens now. once he gets a rep for being with Matt, he won't be able to shake it. sounds like he's been giving Matt an appropriate response but it is time to step it up. and it may become necessary to just flat out take Matt aside and tell him the friendship is over. which means walking away every time he approaches.

i know i know.....but at this point in time Sam is the priority.

I agree with MZ. I think Sam is trying to make a very adult decision and to give him credit, he's taking time to come to you and ask you your advice. This is great.

I think Sam needs to work on his boundaries with Matt. At what point does that line into "not acceptable behavior" get crossed. And how do you make it clear to those around you that in order to respect YOU and to be your friend, they have to behave in way that if appropriate to you.

MATT can behave any way he wants. BUT if he wants to behave that way, he can't have Sam. He needs to make a choice.

I think Sam is really smart in recognizing this. And if Matt doesn't respect the boundaries Sam reasonably puts up, then Matt loses Sam. That's MATT's CHOICE. It's not Sam's. Sam is giving Matt a choice, as a friend. But if Matt choses to not comply-- HE is rejecting. And Sam needs to walk away. And that's on Matt, not on Sam.

Boundaries have been a big part of this from the start methinks.

I talked to Sam about them, and he says it's hard to re-establish boundaries without hurting feelings. I suggested pretty much what you said Gypsy, that it is Matt's choice to not respect boundaries ergo hurt feelings.

I had to ask for advice with this, as I've had boundary issues in the past, with the same concerns for hurt feelings. Often to my detriment/frustration/anger/resentment etc.

 

[Begonia]

Wow, Begonia, I think it's amazing your son feels like he can come to you with this problem. Kudos to you.
Even at his young age, I would tell him that sometimes people aren't meant to be in our lives forever; friends come and go depending on what stage you're at in life. He sounds like he's got his head on straight. I'd also tell him to go with his gut.

Thanks T,

'tis true. Friendships ebb and flow.

 

[Begonia]

Wow, Begonia, I think it's amazing your son feels like he can come to you with this problem. Kudos to you.
Even at his young age, I would tell him that sometimes people aren't meant to be in our lives forever; friends come and go depending on what stage you're at in life. He sounds like he's got his head on straight. I'd also tell him to go with his gut.

This I agree with 100%. He is learning life lessons about trusting his instincts when it comes to people. If he doesn't like someone, doesn't have much in common, and doesn't see them as equals he should not have to worry about changing them to fit in. The age span for when boys mature is much broader than for girls. When boys enter puberty they go at very different rates. Mental and physical maturity doesn't happen at the same rate. (man body, boy brain or vice versa)

My experience with my son, who was a late bloomer, is that when boys get to high school and hit puberty there is a regrouping. Kids who "played" together since kindergarten split off into new groups. My son wasn't "immature" but he was slow entering puberty and probably had young behaviors that couldn't be changed by someone telling him. Socially high school was slow for my son and he had only a few good friends.

Bottom line, you can not force friendships and a 14 year old can't be responsible for another kid's level of maturity. Allow your son to distance himself and not feel guilty. Actually, I would applaud him making the decision to move on from an uncomfortable situation
.

Another perspective: priceless.

 

[Begonia]

What's your gut telling you, Begonia, about getting the school involved? Have you considered talking to the guidance department? Ideally, these things *should* be dealt with between the parties involved, but I doubt that 2 (or more) 14 year olds have the sophistication and social skills to resolve this! I think a lot of times, things CAN resolve on their own... but its so rough to watch it happen.

Sam sounds like a pretty level headed kid who's very kind hearted. The hard lesson for him is changing directions in a relationship. I was thinking... what was that phrase...?

"Friends come into our lives for a reason, a season or a lifetime"

My gut says it's almost time to do that.

Matt came into Sams life for a reason and a season. I want him to think of this friendship fondly, not for a nasty ending. That's the challenge here - to part company amicably and able to be friendly, without being active friends. I wonder if this is possible in this situation...

I don't want to bring my own issues into this. See, Begonia has been known to not just burn bridges, but blow them up! Often times after holding in anger and resentment for far too long. Don't want to pass on those patterns!

 

[Enerchi]

See, Begonia has been known to not just burn bridges, but blow them up!

Well, definitely not the lesson to be teaching your kids, I agree with you there!!

 

[Gypsy]

Boundaries have been a big part of this from the start methinks.

I talked to Sam about them, and he says it's hard to re-establish boundaries without hurting feelings. I suggested pretty much what you said Gypsy, that it is Matt's choice to not respect boundaries ergo hurt feelings.

I had to ask for advice with this, as I've had boundary issues in the past, with the same concerns for hurt feelings. Often to my detriment/frustration/anger/resentment etc.

It is hard to re-establish boundaries without hurt feelings. But honestly... avoiding hurt feelings isn't the goal. It's part of the goal when possible. BUT the TOP goal is to not compromise yourself so much for another person that you resent them and hurt yourself. Compromise is part of life. But the line there is in your gut. If it doesn't feel right, if you are resenting someone else because you feel trapped or forced into a situation that tweaks you the wrong way-- you gotta get out. And that's not to say you have to get out in a bad way that hurts someone else's feelings. BUT I don't think you should STAY just because some feelings might be hurt if you go. If there is a way to do it with minimal hurt feeling, great... but if there isn't the choice isn't to STAY, it's to go while making as few waves as possible.

I don't think guys talk about feelings and stuff like girls do. So I think the words need to come from him. But the message should be: "If you want us to keep hanging out, you need to change this behavior because I don't want to be around it. If you don't want to change, let me know now, and we can both walk away with good memories."

 

[jess719]

Hello,

I normally don't post, but I lurk a lot. My name is Jessica, and I am a counselor. I used to do both professional and school counseling before I became a stay at home mom. I have to say, that although this is a tough situation, your son has handled it with FAR more maturity and tact than most kids his age would have. The qualities you have described lead me to believe that he is a spectacular, sensitive young man who has an amazing, involved mother. I am not able to give professional advice for both legal and ethical reasons, but I can give you an opinion just as a regular person.

What makes a big difference is the type of learning disability that Matt has. If Matt has a disorder on the autism spectrum, how you expect him to react would be much different than if he has oppositional defiant disorder for example. I'm not sure how your schools label learning disorders-it is typically anything preventing a student from learning in a traditional learning environment. Whatever the case is, they all are very different. How students with these issues interact with peers varies greatly. The only reason I mention this is because both you and Sam seem to truly care about his feelings.

Talking to a counselor at the school might be a great idea. I just hope that they are not just there for scheduling, transcripts and college recommendations. It happens much more often than you'd think. Pursue it, but if he is not seen I would say within two days, I would call the school myself. If that avenue works, then wonderful! If not, your second option is talking to an Assistant Principal. Most have quite a bit of experience with situations like this. I have found that they are a great asset. A bonus is that they are then aware of the situation in case, God forbid, things escalate late. If you are in the US, most states have passed zero tolerance bullying laws (you need to use the word bullying), and will try to quickly resolve the problem.

If you do not have counselors, or they do not do peer mediation, then what I would do is ask Sam exactly what he has said to Matt and when. It is always helpful to have the whole story. You can bring up examples of what other insightful Pricescopers have mentioned and try those. If he has tried all of that, and it has not worked, it isn't going to help to keep doing the same things or feeling guilty. He needs to know that he is still a good, caring person who tried the best he could to do the right thing. To put it in perspective, he IS sticking up for the underdog. The "chicks" Matt is calling fat are victims too. If he feels that the friendship cannot be salvaged, then telling Matt "I can't hang out with you anymore." is completely OK. If things continue on the same path, I'm afraid that Sam will lose the friends his made, or even worse, be associated with the nasty things Matt is saying to people. After trying all avenues, he has to give himself permission to walk away. I do love the reason/season saying! Good luck with everything. I'll be sending positive thoughts Sam's way!

" I don't think guys talk about feelings and stuff like girls do. So I think the words need to come from him. But the message should be: "If you want us to keep hanging out, you need to change this behavior because I don't want to be around it. If you don't want to change, let me know now, and we can both walk away with good memories." " is GREAT advice!

 

[Begonia]

Hello,

I normally don't post, but I lurk a lot. My name is Jessica, and I am a counselor. I used to do both professional and school counseling before I became a stay at home mom. I have to say, that although this is a tough situation, your son has handled it with FAR more maturity and tact than most kids his age would have. The qualities you have described lead me to believe that he is a spectacular, sensitive young man who has an amazing, involved mother. I am not able to give professional advice for both legal and ethical reasons, but I can give you an opinion just as a regular person.

What makes a big difference is the type of learning disability that Matt has. If Matt has a disorder on the autism spectrum, how you expect him to react would be much different than if he has oppositional defiant disorder for example. I'm not sure how your schools label learning disorders-it is typically anything preventing a student from learning in a traditional learning environment. Whatever the case is, they all are very different. How students with these issues interact with peers varies greatly. The only reason I mention this is because both you and Sam seem to truly care about his feelings.

Talking to a counselor at the school might be a great idea. I just hope that they are not just there for scheduling, transcripts and college recommendations. It happens much more often than you'd think. Pursue it, but if he is not seen I would say within two days, I would call the school myself. If that avenue works, then wonderful! If not, your second option is talking to an Assistant Principal. Most have quite a bit of experience with situations like this. I have found that they are a great asset. A bonus is that they are then aware of the situation in case, God forbid, things escalate late. If you are in the US, most states have passed zero tolerance bullying laws (you need to use the word bullying), and will try to quickly resolve the problem.

If you do not have counselors, or they do not do peer mediation, then what I would do is ask Sam exactly what he has said to Matt and when. It is always helpful to have the whole story. You can bring up examples of what other insightful Pricescopers have mentioned and try those. If he has tried all of that, and it has not worked, it isn't going to help to keep doing the same things or feeling guilty. He needs to know that he is still a good, caring person who tried the best he could to do the right thing. To put it in perspective, he IS sticking up for the underdog. The "chicks" Matt is calling fat are victims too. If he feels that the friendship cannot be salvaged, then telling Matt "I can't hang out with you anymore." is completely OK. If things continue on the same path, I'm afraid that Sam will lose the friends his made, or even worse, be associated with the nasty things Matt is saying to people. After trying all avenues, he has to give himself permission to walk away. I do love the reason/season saying! Good luck with everything. I'll be sending positive thoughts Sam's way!

" I don't think guys talk about feelings and stuff like girls do. So I think the words need to come from him. But the message should be: "If you want us to keep hanging out, you need to change this behavior because I don't want to be around it. If you don't want to change, let me know now, and we can both walk away with good memories." " is GREAT advice!

Hi Jess,

Was just passing thru and saw your post

Thanks for your kind words. This situation is striking so close to home. The whole family can identify with Matt...

I am not sure what kind of learning disability Matt has - I've asked, but his Mom has kept that info close to her chest. He has some trauma at birth, or my first inclination would be to say autism spectrum. In our school system, that seems to be a catch-all these days however, whether they have it or not.

I do believe the counsellors at his school will be supportive, and if not, they have 2 assistant principals - one of which is assigned to take care of his grade level. I plan on calling both next week (Pro-D day on Monday).

I've asked Sam about their day-to-day interactions quite a bit to get a better picture of what they are like. It sounds like the inappropriate talk happens a fair bit, and the name-calling as well, but not all the time. I can't help but wonder if it isn't Matt's way of trying to fit in and keep up with these boys, as he is lagging academically from them, and possibly in maturation as well.

Sam wishes Matt well, but wants to move on. I guess that they have never really had that much in common, and the the gulf has widened now that they are in HS. I've suggested some of the above approaches, but Sam is hesitant, and says that he doesn't want to be mean. Better to walk away than have your resentment build, which is what is happening. That will bring out mean reactions I believe.

I do believe that Sam will choose an approach that works for him, and is respectful to Matt. He is like his Father, and takes his time to think about the best way to ago about things.

With all of your help, I've given him some suggestions/tools and now am sitting back and giving him some space to do what he thinks is right. I will let you all know how it unfolds, but I think it will take some time. Perhaps not. I will certainly let you know what the school can offer by way of help and advice.

Thanks for chiming in Jess.

 

[Enerchi]

Hey Begonia....
Just thinking about your son's situation and wondered how things are going? (and the move!!!)

 

[Begonia]

Hey E!

Was gonna tackle a stack of dirty dishes and then thought $*@# that, I'm gonna go on PS. Glad I did.

Move is a mere two weeks away today! Been packing and sorting and packing some more. Interesting to do when you still gotta live ya know? Pity one can't get possession of one and then give up possession of another a week later. That wasn't do-able with us. We do have possession of new place 18 hours before we give us keys to current home. That helps.

Moving doesn't stress me. That's just work.

The 2 tons of 20 year old beige carpet that needs ripping out in the new place...maybe a little stress there. All blown windows, old molding, doors, cupboards, counter tops...the list goes on. The fact that it smells like cat pee is messing with my Zen thing.

Wouldn't it be grand to be able to have a place that is turn-key? I was fantasizing the other day, that we got this place mortgage-free and took a loan just to do the upgrades. Like 150k worth of upgrades. Man you could customize your place with that. I have several friends that are mortgage free. Mommy and Daddy, or Granny bought them a house when they got married Heck, my family on both sides didn't even throw me a baby shower for either child. Forgive me E, period came back after 5 months and I'm not too evolved emotionally when the 'mones are coursing through my veins. I snap out of it in a few days. I try to stay home and not socialize so I don't blow up a bridge.

I took a step back with my boy Sam and his friendship issue with Matt. I kinda figured that it might evolve without me getting involved. I've been known to run interference. Working on that.

They are still hanging out, but thankfully Matt has developed some new friends of his own. Sam got involved in some clubs that Matt isn't involved in, and that is exposing him to new friendships as well. The drifting apart is going gradually and seems to be mutual. What more could we ask for?

My boy Sam is now 14, and he's my oldest. I don't have any experience with teen years (aside from my own). They can get quite emotional yes? They can border on irrational at times yes? You can have a hard time figuring out what the &^%$ is really going on yes? They can send you to the dark side, and it can several hours to make your way back yes? On a bad day, they can make you want to smack them upside the head yes? (Oh dear, that outside voice again).

Ah well, thanks for listening E and others. How are you keeping? Where has life put you on the fine first day of October?