Breastfeeding help!

[amc80]

I know the PS moms can help me. I'm having some issues with breastfeeding. He was 8lb 11.5oz at birth (8/ and was down to 7lb10oz on 8/13. The pediatrician isn't too concerned yet, since my milk had really just come in the day before. I have to take him in for another weight check in a week so I'm really trying to get this all figured out.

Problem one is a shallow latch. I've read how to do it, watched videos, etc., but just can't get him to latch correctly. Sometimes he will latch well but then will eventually slide down to the nipple. My nipple comes out looking like lipstick, which I know is the telltale sign of a shallow latch. Not to mention that they are chapped and hurt to touch.

Problem two is he falls asleep while feeding and is impossible to wake up. Again, some times are better than others. I'm trying to just feed him when he's awake, regardless of whether it's "time" to feed him. This might mean he gets fed every 1.5 hours or every 3 hours, just depending on him. The pediatrician wants to make sure I don't go over 3 hours between feedings. But it's hard when he falls asleep every 30 seconds.

Problem three is the flailing. Particularly with my left boob, which is bigger than my right. He will suck for a bit and then just start flailing his arms around. I tried swaddling him before feeding. It solves this problem, but also makes him go to sleep.

Then, of course, there's the typical worry of "I don't know how much he's getting" thing. When he is done feeding I will hand express and feed him by spoon. I finally decided to collect my milk to see just how much was left after he fed. I was getting around 10ml. Then I read by this point their stomachs are bigger and they should be getting a lot more than that. Today I decided to pump just to see how much I could get, and I was able to get one ounce. This was mainly out of one boob since he had just fed on the other (although I was able to get some out of that side as well, just not a whole lot). Hopefully this means he got around an ounce from that side as well? There's just no way to know which is so frustrating.

That's all I can think of for now, although I know there are more details to add. My brain is running on empty. Thanks in advance for any advice or wisdom!

 

[fieryred33143]

You sound like a mom with a newborn for sure!

One of the biggest tips I have that worked oh so well for us was to visit the LC. I was convinced she wasn't getting enough so they did a weighed feeding and turns out she was getting more than enough! Visiting the LC helped so so so much with my nipple issues (were cracked and bleeding badly because I wasn't latching her the right way) and helped ease my fears that she wasn't getting enough. The pedi was supportive but the LC knows breasts, you know?

As for keeping him awake, can you try a wet/cool cloth to the face? I would take her clothes off (particularly made sure her feet weren't covered) but it also sounds like the swaddle would be best work with the flailing.

 

[fieryred33143]

As for pumping, at less than a week from birth 1-2oz is all you'll really get. I pumped around day 4 to help my nipples heal and I got 1.5oz-2.5oz at a time. Did you pump after feeding? Because you'll get a lot less after then as well.

Also, how much did he weigh when he left the hospital? I don't remember exactly but I believe 10% less than birth weight is normal and they should get back to birth weight around week 2? Week 3? Don't quite remember. Hope other newborn mamas can chime in!

 

[amc80]

Thanks for the response, Fiery!

I have tried the wet/cold washcloth thing. It wakes him the first couple of times for like 10 seconds, and then ignores it. I think you're right, I need an LC. Even if everything is okay it would still make me feel better at this point.

The 1oz is from one boob that hasn't been nursed. Well, it's probably like .9oz from that side and the other bit came from a boob that was nursed maybe 15 minutes before.

He was 8lbs5oz when we left the hospital. 10% would have been about 14 oz and he's down 17.

Baby crying, gotta feed.

 

[mayerling]

I'm afraid I don't have any good advice to offer, but hugs, Amc. Breastfeeding is HARD.

 

[pavelover]

AMC, Congrats on the little one! Don't have any specific advice but did want to say hang in there and do see an L.C. They (most) are so good and really helpful at reassuring us new moms. My son spent time in the hospital but when we got home it took a good 6 weeks to get Bf down. It felt like a long time. Hugs to you and hope it gets better for you very soon. Doesn't make it easier but I do believe it takes all of us awhile to get it together in regards to BF.

 

[lliang_chi]

AMC, hang in there, mama. Breast feeding is difficult. Re: "Is he getting enough" if you check out a LC, they'll weigh him, have you feed then weigh him after again. That should ease your mind if he's getting enough milk. But if you're a little more trusting on it, go by the # of soiled diapers. If he's wetting I believe it's 7+ diapers within 24 hrs, you're giving him enough milk.

The sleepiness. Oy! Ethan was a MAJOR sleeper when he nursed. You have to try to wake him BEFORE he goes all "milk coma" So as you see him *juuust* starting to shut his eyes, sit him up. For Ethan this was literally every 2-3 mins. It make BFing take FOR. FREAKIN'. EVER. Seriously! I was like, C'mon REALLY??? I'd also change his diaper in the middle of a feed because that woke him up too. The other thing that would wake him up was to lift him over my head. He'd be like, "Whoa! What's going on?" Then I'd put him back on the boob. And repeat. That's how us mom's get such awesome arm muscles

Pumping, Sounds like you're doing well establishing your supply. You said that your left is much bigger than your right, are you only feeding him from that side? You need to feed from both sides, even if the least preferred is just for a few mins. He'll eventually start taking it. TBH, asking yourself, "If I pump X, does that mean that he's getting that amount when he's nursning," will drive you bananas. I just went with the # of wet diapers and trusted that he was getting what he needed. Do keep up the pumping though as it'll help establish your supply and gives you a break if your DH wants to try feeding him.

I think at 1 wk old, Ethan was taking 50-75ml that's about 1.5-2.5 oz per feeding (via SNS finger feeding)

 

[qtiekiki]

To get a deeper latch, try rubbing your finger under his chin from throat up to get him to open wide and push him onto your breast. Whenever you feel that he is getting lazy sucking or the latch is getting shallower, you can also rub under chin the same way to get him to keep sucking.

To keep him awake, you can try feeding him naked or tickling his feet when you see him dozing off.

Arm flailing - try holding him so his arms are between your bodies.

Lastly, how much you can pump is not indication of how much he is getting. Babies are much more efficient than a pump. I know it's hard, but try not to worry. If he is getting wet diapers, he is getting what he needs. Make sure you take care of yourself, drink plenty of water and eat. Oatmeal are said to help with milk supply.

Good luck.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I know the PS moms can help me. I'm having some issues with breastfeeding. He was 8lb 11.5oz at birth (8/ and was down to 7lb10oz on 8/13. The pediatrician isn't too concerned yet, since my milk had really just come in the day before. I have to take him in for another weight check in a week so I'm really trying to get this all figured out.

My midwife does not recommend weighing baby until 7 days post partum because there can be such large fluctuations in the first week, so partly just relax and trust the signs your baby is getting enough (see below) and worry about weight if you are told to.

Problem one is a shallow latch. I've read how to do it, watched videos, etc., but just can't get him to latch correctly. Sometimes he will latch well but then will eventually slide down to the nipple. My nipple comes out looking like lipstick, which I know is the telltale sign of a shallow latch. Not to mention that they are chapped and hurt to touch.

Lansinoh cream is great for chapping I really recommend it. If you don't have pain when nursing, then in my experience (nursed two babies) you cannot avoid some pain the first time you BF. Part of starting to breastfeed is that your baby will literally separate your nipple from the underlying tissues and your nipples will change shape, size, everything! After you have BF for a while your nipples will be about the size of your thumb and about one cm long (half and inch). Soooo... I am not convinced the "lipstick" thing is a bad thing So, a little sensitivity and pain or chapping is normal. Pain WHILE BFing is more problematic. All I can say is that with newborns you really have to man handle them onto the boob. Move baby TO the boob, not the other way, and sometimes you have to really manipulate your boob into a particular shape to really get a good deep latch. This is something you need help with in person. So if you have pain when you nurse, consult a lactation person and let them manhandle you

Problem two is he falls asleep while feeding and is impossible to wake up. Again, some times are better than others. I'm trying to just feed him when he's awake, regardless of whether it's "time" to feed him. This might mean he gets fed every 1.5 hours or every 3 hours, just depending on him. The pediatrician wants to make sure I don't go over 3 hours between feedings. But it's hard when he falls asleep every 30 seconds.

Normal newborn stuff. We would take all hunter's clothing off, tickle him, bounce him around, to wake him up. You can also just let him sleep on the boob while you watch TV, he will wake and nurse when he wants. Schedules don't matter as much as everyone says. Babies like to nurse -- oh, 24-7 -- in the beginning, in small doses. But jounce him around until he cries when he falls asleep.
Problem three is the flailing. Particularly with my left boob, which is bigger than my right. He will suck for a bit and then just start flailing his arms around. I tried swaddling him before feeding. It solves this problem, but also makes him go to sleep.

Then, of course, there's the typical worry of "I don't know how much he's getting" thing. When he is done feeding I will hand express and feed him by spoon. I finally decided to collect my milk to see just how much was left after he fed. I was getting around 10ml. Then I read by this point their stomachs are bigger and they should be getting a lot more than that. Today I decided to pump just to see how much I could get, and I was able to get one ounce. This was mainly out of one boob since he had just fed on the other (although I was able to get some out of that side as well, just not a whole lot). Hopefully this means he got around an ounce from that side as well? There's just no way to know which is so frustrating.

Input = output. At under a week old you want to see 6+ wet daipers each day (not sopping, but enough to make the little indicator thing go away) and a couple poops that are yellow/brown/greenish and curdy -- not black. Otherwise DON"T WORRY! Trust your body. Count the pees. And trust me, if he is hungry you will know. How? He will scream like a maniac and never be satisfied after nursing. I experienced this with my first son. If he is making wet diapers and sleeping lots, he is fine. Don't pump, don't feed with a teaspoon. You have to trust your body and the evidence: wet and poopy diapers.

ETA: Oh, and pumping is not a sign of your out put at all. I never produced for the pump but exclusively breastfed two huge babies, the second EBF until 10 months (wouldn't eat solids). So pumping is not an indication of anything.

 

[amc80]

Again, thank you all do much for the replies. I've been bfing and pumping. I have the avent bottles which and they force him to use a deeper latch, which I think is helping with the boob latch as well. My nipples still hurt but I think at this point it's more residual pain from the first several days. He's pooping and peeing up a storm, and he isn't fussy...so I think i just have to assume he's getting enough and gaining weight. I'm still working on the sleeping and flailing while eating issues...the kid just doesn't wake up if he doesn't want to. But as long as he is getting enough I guess those are just annoying and not hurting anyone.

Breast feeding is hard. I know everyone always says that but until you are doing it it is difficult to grasp what is meant by "hard."

 

[monarch64]

The best thing I did (and I waited too long as it turned out) was to see a LC. I also used a nipple shield which helped with the shallow latch issue and the chafing/cracking/bleeding/etc. They're ~$10 at Target or any place that sells Medela products. Use the lanolin every single time after you feed or pump, it seriously helps so much.

As for baby falling asleep at the breast, you just have to keep rousing him over and over and it sucks because you're tired too and want to have that time as relaxation/rest yourself.

It is really, really hard for some of us. I'm sorry that you're not having an easier time of it, but hopefully things will improve. I had to look at it as day by day, let's get through one more day, and then one more week, and so forth. Just don't wait too long to see a lactation consultant if the latch issue isn't correcting itself and you feel like he's still not getting enough. Also don't fall into the "I'll just pump and bottle feed" thing like I did...I think I ended up doing more harm than good that way even though my nipples felt like they were going to fall off, because like Dreamer said, you can't gauge output from pumping, there is no way to know (unless you are weighing baby before and after a breastfeed) how much they are getting vs. what you are pumping.

There's a great video that I found helpful on pumping: http://newborns.stanford.edu/Breastfeeding/MaxProduction.html
and several more from the same website on breastfeeding in general between now and when you are able to go see a LC. Please don't hesitate to ask for help! I felt so much better about things after I went to see an LC a few times.

Oh, flailing...mine did that every time I waited too long to feed her. I felt like she was getting frustrated and started flailing those arms and kicking if she was too anxious to get the boob going. So predicting a feed will start to come naturally to you and will help with the flailing, I think.

Good luck!

 

[Dreamer_D]

I found that BFing didn't get easy until about 3 months post partum. Then it was simple and easly and convenient. But the time commitment in those early months is hard, no two ways about it.

 

[PetitiePoire]

I haven't read the replies, but wanted to give my experience so I apologize if I'm repeating.

Get Lansinoh cream. It worked best for me vs other brands I tried. It can stay on even if baby eats. Mine were cracked and near bleeding and it healed it super quick.

Sometimes L has a shallow latch during feeding and I pinch my boob, near her mouth, and "assist" in her putting more in. Usually just by moving it it breaks her current latch and she opens wider. I try to always make sure all/most of the areola Is in her mouth- that was always my guide to know she was latching correctly.


Sometimes L's "crazy arms" flail. I usually put her hand on my shirt to grip or hold her hand.

There are many times when it was so painful I wanted to give up, but I promise it gets better. As soon as the proper latch is established you both will feel better!

ETA- I also make sure she has "fish lips" while sucking. Sometimes I have to adjust multiple times. In the early days she always put her bottom lip in, which caused a bad latch. good luck!

 

[lliang_chi]

And to follow up with Dreamer, BFing definitely gets easier.

(For some humor) Until about 5 months, then they're super distracted and crane their little heads around to see whatever is going on. Oh and they forget to let go of your nipple when they do it. Fortunately by then your nipples can deflect bullets, so it's more of a "Dude, seriously?!" reaction and not a "AAAAHHH! You're maiming me!" reaction.

 

[Dreamer_D]

LC -- haha

Once your baby has successfully separated your nipple from the underlying tissues you do lose almost all sensation in your nipples. I was very upset about this with my first son because I very much liked having sensation in my nipples for other, non-food related boob activities. I am happy to report that by sbout six months post-weaning with my first son I regained sensation in my nipples to the point where I could not really tell a difference. Your nipples get smaller and less "tough" too. Your breasts will sag and never be the same, but you do regain sensation! I am only about one month post weaning with my second son so can't tell yet if things will return this time, but I think it will

 

[Puppmom]

LC -- haha

Once your baby has successfully separated your nipple from the underlying tissues you do lose almost all sensation in your nipples. I was very upset about this with my first son because I very much liked having sensation in my nipples for other, non-food related boob activities. I am happy to report that by sbout six months post-weaning with my first son I regained sensation in my nipples to the point where I could not really tell a difference. Your nipples get smaller and less "tough" too. Your breasts will sag and never be the same, but you do regain sensation! I am only about one month post weaning with my second son so can't tell yet if things will return this time, but I think it will

I was all "that's NOT what those are for!" before BFing my son. My bbs are very important for other reasons as well and I actually never lost sensation. Thank goodness! That would have sent me into a panic. I didn't even know that was a possibility.

Back to the original topic, you've gotten some great advice. I agree that an LC is in order. They're usually lovely ladies who can show you how to manhandle your baby (seriously, my jaw dropped the first time they shoved my teeny weeny baby on there!) and ease your mind about most of your concerns.

 

[phoenixgirl]

Oh yes, it is very hard. But once you get through the early days, you just lift your shirt for a few minutes and feeding is much, much easier!

I think an LC will help you feel a lot more confident. I've never had latch issues so I'm not sure what to suggest there, but I'm sure your LC will be able to help you troubleshoot. I went to a lactation place several times with my first LO. She also lost more than 10% of her birthweight and didn't regain it until 3 weeks. So did DD#2, but in that case milk was spurting out of my boobs and I knew that my supply wasn't an issue; that's just what my babies do. I think their birth weights were inflated by my receiving IV fluids during labor. DD#2 was gaining an ounce or two per day after she stopped losing so there was nothing wrong; they set those numbers as guidelines to catch problems before they get really bad, but they don't always tell the whole story.

 

[amc80]

I just checked and it turns out I have lansinoh, the hospital gave me a tube. I just need to be better about using it. Things are starting to get better and I might not need an LC after all. His latch is much better and I'm getting better about timing his feedings so he's more awake. My supply is increasing as well, so that makes me feel better. I pumped after he nursed (on one side) and was able to get 2oz (about .5 from the side he nursed on and the rest from the side he had nursed on 2 hours before).

I love these tips and suggestions, not to mention all of the support from you ladies. Thank you so much.

 

[lliang_chi]

AMC, spend more money to use the brand name Lanisoh lanolin. The generic stuff is really sticky and just not as smooth and nice feeling. My DH balked that it was 2x the cost, but then I told him when he starts producing milk and is hooked up to a pump, he can buy ALL THE GENERIC he wants. LOL.

 

[qtiekiki]

Beside the lanolin, you can also rub some breastmilk on your nipples.

 

[amc80]

AMC, spend more money to use the brand name Lanisoh lanolin. The generic stuff is really sticky and just not as smooth and nice feeling. My DH balked that it was 2x the cost, but then I told him when he starts producing milk and is hooked up to a pump, he can buy ALL THE GENERIC he wants. LOL.

I think that's what I have? Lansinoh HPA lanolin?

 

[pancake]

I'm late to the party, but I'm with all the other mamas here! We didn't have a difficult time establishing BFing but I had the sore nipples early on and all that stuff. It sounds like things are on the up for you, amc80, and that's great to hear!

Agree with getting some lanolin. I didn't use Lansinoh, I think mine was Medela, but whatever - put just a little on, only on the sore/chafed area, and let your boobs hang out! Air is great for helping heal nipples! What Dreamer says about nipple sensitivity is totally true, too. S had a beautiful latch and suck and my nipples never cracked, but they felt very bruised for the first few weeks, and then remained intermittently bruised-feeling for the next month or two, I think - by about 3 months that went away completely. Now I have nipples of steel

At the beginning I think your supply is really sensitive to what the baby is doing - the supply and demand thing is really finely tuned. For the first few months, although I had a huge supply, I would notice that if S had an off day (eg after immunisations, when she would just sleep and sleep and sleep), my supply would drop dramatically within 24 hours, and then she'd have a frequency day to get the supply up again. Now she's 6 months old and we are having the same circus that LC describes - S would rather arch her back and hang upside down to grin at whatever's going on behind her than finish her feeds! - but when she has a day of poorer feeding, my supply seems to stay up anyway.

LC, I literally laughed out loud at your last post, re telling your husband where to go with his generic lanolin!!!

 

[ponder]

I wouldnt worry about the drop in weight, especially since your milk just came in. My DD #2 went almost 18 hours without a wet diaper (yes I was freaking) but as soon as it did she was a constant poop and urine factory. We still affectionately refer to her as the port-a-potty, because she smells like one, ALOT

My oldest DD was LAZY! She barely woke even to eat. The only time she would be thoroughly awake and grumpy was when we were try to eat. Go figure. We had to strip her to her diaper, use the damp wash cloth, and tickle/tap her feet during the feeding to keep her awake. Also, changing the diaper mid feed did help alot to wake her up to resume feeding.

Trust your diapers. It's hard, I know, but its the best way to tell if they are getting the amount THEY need. Also, if he is content (mainly), he is just not hungry. I have heard from many different sources that formula fed babies tend to over eat, and my kids 38mo, 22mo, and 6mo never ate as much as the recommended for their age whether it was breastmilk or later formula in a bottle. I think they eventually recommend 32 oz a day. None of mine ate more than 24 oz.

I survived on the Lansinoh. My neighbor recommended not applying to the nipple, but instead putting a big gob on the breast pad so that you didnt have to reapply all the time.

Good Luck! It does get easier.

 

[moxie.moo]

Breastfed babies take a little longer to get back up to their birth weight so don't fret too much, but DO try to get a lactation consultant. Mine was this super maternal hippy who was totally fine with me sobbing to her a week in. My little girl also had a shallow latch which turned out was due to posterior tongue tie, so I ended up exclusively pumping, but my LC was still my lifesaver. They can also hook you up with someone who can prescribe you with other medications for your nipples--I got mupirocin and my destroyed nipples cleared up in about three days. It must have been magic in a tube because the lansinoh wouldn't touch it at that point. GOOD LUCK and hang in there!

 

[amc80]

Good news! We had his weight check today and he has gained 10oz in a week. The goal was 1oz a day so he's ahead of the curve. I think it's safe to say that his latch is sufficient, as is my supply!

 

[qtiekiki]

Great news. I knew there was nothing to worry about.

 

[Skippy123]

great job AMC!!!