Quick grammar question - Who/Whom

[JewelFreak]

"This is her" sounds illiterate. It is illiterate -- "she" is the predicate nominative in that sentence: it's a substitute for the sentence subject & has to be a subject pronoun.

My pet peeve is "Joe and myself were cold" or "they came to visit Joe and myself." Yack! How to tell? Take Joe out & see how it sounds: "Myself was cold." "...came to visit myself." That word is a reflexive pronoun and can never be the subject of a sentence; it always must be the object, direct or indirect. That's why "Myself was cold" is cuckoo.

--- Laurie

 

[amc80]

"This is her" sounds illiterate. It is illiterate -- "she" is the predicate nominative in that sentence: it's a substitute for the sentence subject & has to be a subject pronoun.

My pet peeve is "Joe and myself were cold" or "they came to visit Joe and myself." Yack! How to tell? Take Joe out & see how it sounds: "Myself was cold." "...came to visit myself." That word is a reflexive pronoun and can never be the subject of a sentence; it always must be the object, direct or indirect. That's why "Myself was cold" is cuckoo.

--- Laurie

I have friends who use "...and I" regardless of the situation. It drives me insane. Or when people make a possessive out of I. Such as "Here is John and I's new house!" OMG it drives me batty. I'm not perfect by any means, but c'mon people! Whenever I (correctly) use "...and me" my mom tries to correct it.

 

[Laila619]

"This is her" sounds illiterate. It is illiterate -- "she" is the predicate nominative in that sentence: it's a substitute for the sentence subject & has to be a subject pronoun.

My pet peeve is "Joe and myself were cold" or "they came to visit Joe and myself." Yack! How to tell? Take Joe out & see how it sounds: "Myself was cold." "...came to visit myself." That word is a reflexive pronoun and can never be the subject of a sentence; it always must be the object, direct or indirect. That's why "Myself was cold" is cuckoo.

--- Laurie

I have friends who use "...and I" regardless of the situation. It drives me insane. Or when people make a possessive out of I. Such as "Here is John and I's new house!" OMG it drives me batty. I'm not perfect by any means, but c'mon people! Whenever I (correctly) use "...and me" my mom tries to correct it.

That is absolutely ridiculous! How could anyone think that sounds correct?!

DH and I watch The Bachelor (I know ) and they always say, "So and so and I's relationship..."

 

[texaskj]

Auuuuugh, aauuuuuuuuugh, aaaauuuuuuuuugh!!!
Not the who/whom question, anything but that. I've been in journalism for the better part of 32 years and I've known one, count her, one person with a grasp on it. She retired and left the newsroom to flounder.
My personal gripes are "is currently" and affect/effect.

 

[AGBF]

"This is her" sounds illiterate. It is illiterate -- "she" is the predicate nominative in that sentence: it's a substitute for the sentence subject & has to be a subject pronoun.

Hallelujah, sister! And amen.

Deb

 

[kenny]

Auuuuugh, aauuuuuuuuugh, aaaauuuuuuuuugh!!!
Not the who/whom question, anything but that. I've been in journalism for the better part of 32 years and I've known one, count her, one person with a grasp on it. She retired and left the newsroom to flounder.
My personal gripes are "is currently" and affect/effect.

Affect is a verb: She affects me.
Effect is a noun: She has an effect on me.

Yes, they are often used incorrectly.

 

[kenny]

How's about disoriented and disorientated?

IMO the first is correct and the second is simply not a word, though it is becoming a word.

 

[texaskj]

Gold star for Kenny.

 

[AGBF]

Auuuuugh, aauuuuuuuuugh, aaaauuuuuuuuugh!!!
Not the who/whom question, anything but that. I've been in journalism for the better part of 32 years and I've known one, count her, one person with a grasp on it. She retired and left the newsroom to flounder.
My personal gripes are "is currently" and affect/effect.

Affect is a verb: She affects me.
Effect is a noun: She has an effect on me.

Yes, they are often used incorrectly.

"Effect" is also a verb. One can effect change, for example.

Deb

 

[kenny]

Auuuuugh, aauuuuuuuuugh, aaaauuuuuuuuugh!!!
Not the who/whom question, anything but that. I've been in journalism for the better part of 32 years and I've known one, count her, one person with a grasp on it. She retired and left the newsroom to flounder.
My personal gripes are "is currently" and affect/effect.

Affect is a verb: She affects me.
Effect is a noun: She has an effect on me.

Yes, they are often used incorrectly.

"Effect" is also a verb. One can effect change, for example.

Deb

Indeed, but IMHO that was not the incorrect usage that texaskj was referring to.

 

[Dancing Fire]

"This is her" sounds illiterate. It is illiterate -- "she" is the predicate nominative in that sentence: it's a substitute for the sentence subject & has to be a subject pronoun.

My pet peeve is "Joe and myself were cold" or "they came to visit Joe and myself." Yack! How to tell? Take Joe out & see how it sounds: "Myself was cold." "...came to visit myself." That word is a reflexive pronoun and can never be the subject of a sentence; it always must be the object, direct or indirect. That's why "Myself was cold" is cuckoo.

--- Laurie

I have friends who use "...and I" regardless of the situation. It drives me insane. Or when people make a possessive out of I. Such as "Here is John and I's new house!" OMG it drives me batty. I'm not perfect by any means, but c'mon people! Whenever I (correctly) use "...and me" my mom tries to correct it.

even i know that is incorrect grammar...

 

[ladypirate]

In these cases, I always do the "is him (or her) or he (or she) more appropriate?" thing. If it's him/her, whom is appropriate, if it's he/she, who is appropriate.

So in this case:

Suzie explained that her mother, WHO/WHOM she identified as Mary Adams, was verbally and physically abusive to her, especially on the day of running away.

The phrase in question could be put as "She identified [HER OR SHE] as Mary Adams" and obviously her is appropriate, so whom is the correct form.

 

[ladypirate]

Auuuuugh, aauuuuuuuuugh, aaaauuuuuuuuugh!!!
Not the who/whom question, anything but that. I've been in journalism for the better part of 32 years and I've known one, count her, one person with a grasp on it. She retired and left the newsroom to flounder.
My personal gripes are "is currently" and affect/effect.

Affect is a verb: She affects me.
Effect is a noun: She has an effect on me.

Yes, they are often used incorrectly.

"Effect" is also a verb. One can effect change, for example.

Deb

Deb, I tried to explain this to someone the other day and they looked at me like I was a crazy person.

 

[kefira]

One of my most hated grammar mistakes is using "apart" in place of "a part." I just can't understand how people who do this are oblivious to the fact that they have completely reversed the meaning of their words. "I want to be apart/a part of this." Of course, "apart of" isn't going to win any awards either.

Lay/lie isn't too bad if you remember that one takes a direct object. I use a simple phrase when I need a reminder: "Now I lay me down to sleep." The other tenses get messier.

eta: And! Then/than. Drives. me. so. crazy.

 

[Lula]

...

 

[JewelFreak]

How's about disoriented and disorientated?

IMO the first is correct and the second is simply not a word, though it is becoming a word.

TEN gold stars for Kenny!

Suzie explained that her mother, WHO/WHOM she identified as Mary Adams, was verbally and physically abusive to her, especially on the day of running away.

The phrase in question could be put as "She identified [HER OR SHE] as Mary Adams" and obviously her is appropriate, so whom is the correct form.

That's a great trick. Gotta remember it.

--- Laurie

 

[amc80]

I love hearing all of these little tricks!

 

[blacksand]

I spent most of Easter arguing with my fiance and my brother about a photo caption. I had captioned the photo in question "Rob and me," and they argued that it should, in fact, have read "Rob and I." I'm not comfortable using a nominative pronoun there because a) it's a fragment, not a sentence, and b) even if it were a sentence, I believe it would read something along the lines of "this is a photo of Rob and me." Brother and fiance were in the camp that it was a predicate nominative, akin to announcing "It is I!" in some grand Shakespearian style (a construction, which, by the way, I deliberately avoid. Perhaps you think "It is me" sounds illiterate, but I think "It is I" sounds pedantic and just...well, snobby).

We never reached an agreement, but I maintain that , since I would never caption a photo simply "I", likewise I will not caption a photo "Rob and I." Not happening here.

We did have some interesting conversation around the rule discussed above, which states that a linking verb should be followed by a nominative pronoun (e.g. "It is I"). I understand the rule well, but it has always irked me that (in English) we conjugate the verb in agreement with "it" and not with "I" (i.e., it is incorrect to say "It am I"). That makes "it" feel more like the subject, which makes us want to decline "I" as an object. I know that in Old French, the phrase would have been "Ce suis je," literally "It am I." I like this better, because the verb agrees with the subject (regardless of word order). The grammar there is clear. Of course, in Modern French, the word "ce" has come to be felt as a subject, so today, the only correct construction is "C'est moi", literally "It's me." Good on French for changing with the times. I wish English would do the same. I love grammar, but only when it adds value to communication. I see no point in maintaining arbitrary, often clunky grammar rules out of stubborness alone. Anyway, that is just I... I mean, that's just me.

 

[amc80]

We never reached an agreement, but I maintain that , since I would never caption a photo simply "I", likewise I will not caption a photo "Rob and I." Not happening here.

I see this all the time! I agree, it should be "Rob and me," since if it were only you in a picture, you'd caption it "me," right?

 

[AGBF]

Auuuuugh, aauuuuuuuuugh, aaaauuuuuuuuugh!!!
Not the who/whom question, anything but that. I've been in journalism for the better part of 32 years and I've known one, count her, one person with a grasp on it. She retired and left the newsroom to flounder.
My personal gripes are "is currently" and affect/effect.

Affect is a verb: She affects me.
Effect is a noun: She has an effect on me.

Yes, they are often used incorrectly.

"Effect" is also a verb. One can effect change, for example.

Deb, I tried to explain this to someone the other day and they looked at me like I was a crazy person.

Hi, ladypirate-

I feel your pain. It is hard to care about English in today's world and harder, still, to try to communicate one's feelings to others who do not share one's interest in language! You must come to Pricescope to chat about grammar! We seem to have a very nice group of people here who like to share about it!

And, speaking of grammar, after I wrote that, "effect" could be a verb I realized that, "affect" could be a noun. Since I am in the mental health field, the penny really should have dropped a little sooner! The word, "affect", used in the psychiatric sense, means, "emotion". If someone presents in a certain way, regardless of how he feels inside (mood), he may be said to have an, "affect" that is-for instance-"flat" or "inappropriate", etcetera. It is not an esoteric word, but a very common one in my field! So much for the notion that "affect" is always a verb and "effect" is always a noun!

Deb/AGBF

 

[amc80]

As seen on fb a few minutes ago:

"Just call Carson and I animal rescuers!!!"

::facepalm::

 

[yanaazul]

One of my most hated grammar mistakes is using "apart" in place of "a part." I just can't understand how people who do this are oblivious to the fact that they have completely reversed the meaning of their words. "I want to be apart/a part of this."

Reminds me of the use of "alot" for "a lot". Not to mention that "alot" is not even a real word, the way "apart" is. But, it inspired this woman to this very, very funny visual riff: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html so now I smile inwardly at the image of a cavorting Alot, instead of gritting my teeth...

My own peeve? When someone writes "would of" instead of would've. It doesn't even make sense!

 

[Lotus99]

I like this link for either checking that I've got it right or helping me to explain it to someone else: http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/errors.html

My all-time favorite is mucus vs. mucous.

 

[Imdanny]

"They had met in the dark, not knowing whom they met, nor whom they fought." - DH Lawence

You're welcome!

 

[kenny]

My all-time favorite is mucus vs. mucous.

Mucus vs. mucous? Would I be too nosy if I said you are to picky?

 

[kefira]

Reminds me of the use of "alot" for "a lot". [snip]

My own peeve? When someone writes "would of" instead of would've. It doesn't even make sense!

Hyperboleandahalf is awesome. I was just reading that her Alot is now a monster in Diablo 3. Alot of dungeons!

I agree, "would of" makes grammar cat sad.