Gem Hunting

[mastercutgems]

TL you have never scared or intimidated me

I do not always agree with you or all that post here; but I feel we most have learned to agree to disagree on some things.


You were a big person and apologized and nothing else should be asked of you in this matter...

Also no one has ever bought me off to be on the vendor list I may be cheap; but not that cheap

LOL

Nothing meant to harm or insult

most respectfully;

Dana

 

[gsellis]

And to clarify, Trade is not a paid tag. It is a tag that says we are generally not consumers (my new NC ruby says otherwise). I have never directly sold to a PS member. I have indirectly sold one because it was bought through another party. And I cut for another party because we knew each other before I started posting on PS. Trade runs a fine line where just being excited about something can be misconstrued as promotion, even when that is not the intent. Tourmaline Lover and Ed have made up.

On a side note = you cannot understand the frustration of the rules of the forum some times. Two different participants here have worked on a recut of material. It went from a 'send it back' to a 'my PRECIOUS' ... and because this is PS, no posting because it would look like a self promotion (it is not mine nor did I recut it). And I can tell you that if you think someone is self-promoting, they have shown incredible restraint by not posting it.

 

[Lee Little]

Come on, vendors, lighten up!

TL's comments would really frighten vendors away?!! Really. Really?!! This is not TLScope, this is PriceScope and TL is but one member of many - granted a well known and highly valued member, but one member still. If this frightens you away, so be it. But then my response is that it didn't take much for you to leave.

People vary. People are human. People have bad days. Its water under the bridge. Both individuals with distance and rest, owned their part, apologized and moved on.

Please let's not rehash this.

My timing on the original post was late so sorry if it is rehashing. I read about all this on another forum so came here to see what it was about. I should have read the entire thread before posting but am always a little short on time.
Of course, when any member is rude with another member that was polite and anybody person reads it, they will be turned off. That is only natural and happens all the time on forums. I do know at least two highly respected vendors that do not post here any longer and it is not because of TL but mainly the restrictive rules and some attitudes according to what they told me. Even though I have never had a problem here or much problem on any forum, I still prefer to post more often where I don't have to walk on such delicate eggshells.
On other forums I find myself sharing pictures of gems that I find interesting from a gemological stand point. Living in Thailand next to Burma has put me in the right place to find certain rare natural gems and treated stones that have not previously been studied much so I am able to educate and personally learn more about what I have found by posting pics on forums and reading the responses. Of course, I have never done that here because all my gems are technically for sale so I cannot show them here. I am not asking this forum to change its rules but am just explaining why I do not post much here like I do on other forums. I never meant anybody to think that I was frightened away and I never left. I do sell gems and jewelry to some PS members and PS is still a bookmark on my computer so I will be around regardless.
I also would like to add that TL is a well informed person on gemstones and I will often read her post to glean some information from it so I have always respected her. I do not know Ed personally like I do many vendors but always admired his purist pursuit. Best regards, Lee

 

[T L]

I read about all this on another forum so came here to see what it was about.

I didn't realize this thread was spoken of in other forums, which is somewhat of an on my part. Oh well, if it's in the public domain, that happens.

Lee, if consumers or trademembers have issues about how this forum handles the trade or otherwise, they should contact the moderators. They have been open to allowing the trade more freedom on this forum, and have asked the opinions of the trade on what they think in the recent past. I think this is a very good thing.

As for myself, no one has to like me, or agree with me. I'm only here to contribute what I know, and to discuss what I love with other individuals that share my interests. There are plenty of people on this board that do not agree with me, nor I with them, which is perfectly fine. If everyone agreed and shared the same exact opinions, this would be a rather dull place.

 

[Lee Little]

Hi TL,
I did post some suggestions when that thread about improving the forum was going on but never heard or read any new rules or policy changes. Maybe I have to go back and read some of the naturally boring policy pages. I suppose I could ask them about sharing pictures of gems that have gemological educational value but probably won't as I would only do that if it were already welcome and it is not. I try to play by the rules but do not ask for the rules be changed.
As far as I know we are not allowed to comment on another vendors gems nor are we allowed to talk about our own gems unless they are already sold. Well, that leaves virtually no gems to talk about since they all belong or came from somebody and if I already sold them then it seems like old news to me and I am done talking about them. I can't post my or somebody else's new jewelry designs either even if I am asking for critiques as I would be talking about somebody else's stuff again or promoting my own. The niche seems so small. I rarely post just to say, 'oh, so pretty', not that there is anything wrong with saying that, just not my style.
I agree with these rules to some extent as I hate to see blatant advertisement, whether it be on the forum or even a paid ad in the forum, either way, few appreciate ads online except for the ones that sold it. Anyways, I will shut up now as I am getting more and more off topic. Maybe we can talk about this in another thread sometime. We should stop promoting this thread ASAP. Best regards, Lee

 

[minousbijoux]

I suppose I could ask them about sharing pictures of gems that have gemological educational value but probably won't as I would only do that if it were already welcome and it is not.

This is truly our loss. I would give my eye teeth to see such pictures and to hear more from you and others willing to share your knowledge. My favorite threads have been those which are educational - regarding stones, the trade, or the travels and stories of different cultures in obtaining the stones. I wish I could know the other forums of which you speak, where you are unfettered and able to talk freely about these things. Sigh.

 

[rosetta]

THERE'S CAKE?!?

Where? Where??

 

[kenny]

But you are so strangely emotional.

Ed, as I have stated before I enjoy your posts and I find them informative, and (although I'd be shocked if you remembered) I interacted with Wildfish many years ago in which you were a complete gentleman, and I tell people about that experience when it comes up.

However, I have to say that this kind of comment (and things like "I think this is your real problem") does nothing for you and makes me think less of you, and I hope you refrain from it in the future.

+1

I've been on PS since 2005 and over the years I've noticed Ed Bristol, Richard Wise and Rockdiamond of Diamonds by Lauren all have a long history of excessive, inappropriate, and clever self promotion disguised as education and then getting nasty and personally insulting posters who call them on it.
I'd never give these guys any of my business and will steer my friends away from them.

Thank goodness for posters like TL who have the balls to speak up and defend the integrity of PS.

 

[Upgradable]

But Kenny, everyone is different. Some of us appreciate the educational info, and are willing to wade through shark infested waters to choose our stones.

I suppose I could ask them about sharing pictures of gems that have gemological educational value but probably won't as I would only do that if it were already welcome and it is not.

This is truly our loss. I would give my eye teeth to see such pictures and to hear more from you and others willing to share your knowledge. My favorite threads have been those which are educational - regarding stones, the trade, or the travels and stories of different cultures in obtaining the stones. I wish I could know the other forums of which you speak, where you are unfettered and able to talk freely about these things. Sigh.

I, too, miss the days in which educational threads were posted in near equal numbers to consumers posting "what do you think of this stone that I just bought (after no research, and without a refund policy)?"

 

[kenny]

But Kenny, everyone is different.

Of course!
And I am me, and stating my opinion just like everyone else has on this thread.
After reading PS for 7 years those three vendors have crossed the line too often for me so they are on my boycott list.
There are plenty of other vendors.

It's up to PS moderation, not us, to write and enforce rules and nurture the culture that they want here.
But it is up to each of us to decide whom we care to do business with.
Each of us will use whatever criteria we want and that's where people do vary.
The kind of things these guys do really rubs me the wrong way for someone who is supposed to be selling to the public.
If it doesn't bother someone else, fine, no problem.

BTW, if a vendor wanted a case study of the perfect way for a vendor to post study John Pollard's posts both from back when his screen name was JOHNQUIXOTE and later posting under his own name.
I would trust that guy to sell me anything.
Even during heated threads I don't think he ever said one harsh nasty word to anyone.
He was 100% good-natured, professional and polite and he educated without any selling- which of course is the BEST selling.

 

[minousbijoux]

consumers posting "what do you think of this stone that I just bought (after no research, and without a refund policy)?"

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Lee Little]

I suppose I could ask them about sharing pictures of gems that have gemological educational value but probably won't as I would only do that if it were already welcome and it is not.

This is truly our loss. I would give my eye teeth to see such pictures and to hear more from you and others willing to share your knowledge. My favorite threads have been those which are educational - regarding stones, the trade, or the travels and stories of different cultures in obtaining the stones. I wish I could know the other forums of which you speak, where you are unfettered and able to talk freely about these things. Sigh.

Hi Minousbijoux,
I also enjoy hearing and reading the same type of educational, adventure stories etc so I can understand your passion. I am happy to share info with you on where to find such things, we just need to have a way to communicate one to one. I don't think this forum has PM''s and by the rules I can't put my email here but my contact info is public information on many sites and some people use a search engine to find me, you know my name and what country I live in so you are welcome to do that. Best regards, Lee

 

[Lee Little]

But you are so strangely emotional.

Ed, as I have stated before I enjoy your posts and I find them informative, and (although I'd be shocked if you remembered) I interacted with Wildfish many years ago in which you were a complete gentleman, and I tell people about that experience when it comes up.

However, I have to say that this kind of comment (and things like "I think this is your real problem") does nothing for you and makes me think less of you, and I hope you refrain from it in the future.

+1

I've been on PS since 2005 and over the years I've noticed Ed Bristol, Richard Wise and Rockdiamond of Diamonds by Lauren all have a long history of excessive, inappropriate, and clever self promotion disguised as education and then getting nasty and personally insulting posters who call them on it.
I'd never give these guys any of my business and will steer my friends away from them.

Thank goodness for posters like TL who have the balls to speak up and defend the integrity of PS.

Hi Kenny,
Your post explains exactly why I would not ask the moderators permission to post anything here that is educational with gemstone or jewelry pictures. It may be offensive to some as folks here are not used to seeing it and I certainly don't want to annoy anybody. Really anything a trades person post here can be considered promotional as it puts his name out there and says he is a trades person. There, I just made another promotion, LOL. Best regards, Lee

 

[kenny]

But you are so strangely emotional.

Ed, as I have stated before I enjoy your posts and I find them informative, and (although I'd be shocked if you remembered) I interacted with Wildfish many years ago in which you were a complete gentleman, and I tell people about that experience when it comes up.

However, I have to say that this kind of comment (and things like "I think this is your real problem") does nothing for you and makes me think less of you, and I hope you refrain from it in the future.

+1

I've been on PS since 2005 and over the years I've noticed Ed Bristol, Richard Wise and Rockdiamond of Diamonds by Lauren all have a long history of excessive, inappropriate, and clever self promotion disguised as education and then getting nasty and personally insulting posters who call them on it.
I'd never give these guys any of my business and will steer my friends away from them.

Thank goodness for posters like TL who have the balls to speak up and defend the integrity of PS.

Hi Kenny,
Your post explains exactly why I would not ask the moderators permission to post anything here that is educational with gemstone or jewelry pictures. It may be offensive to some as folks here are not used to seeing it and I certainly don't want to annoy anybody. Really anything a trades person post here can be considered promotional as it puts his name out there and says he is a trades person. There, I just made another promotion, LOL. Best regards, Lee

Oh but you must have missed what I wrote in my next post.
I'll quote myself::::

BTW, if a vendor wanted a case study of the perfect way for a vendor to post study John Pollard's posts both from back when his screen name was JOHNQUIXOTE and later posting under his own name.
I would trust that guy to sell me anything.
Even during heated threads I don't think he ever said one harsh nasty word to anyone.
He was 100% good-natured, professional and polite and he educated without any selling- which of course is the BEST selling.

 

[Lee Little]

Hi Kenny,
I did actually do a search and found and read a bunch of that guys post but apparently did not have the endurance to plow thru enough of his post to find one that was educational. Thanks for trying though, best regards, Lee

 

[kenny]

You seemed to be saying that you as a tradesperson have thrown up your hands and will not post because of what I posted.
(As if all trade posting is bad.)

But my point was tradespeople CAN and DO make fantastic contributions here.
But it's not hard to spot the ones who repeatedly and blatantly or even sneakily posting to bend things in a $$$ direction for them.

It's like pornography.
I can't precisely define it but I recognize it when I see it.

 

[Lee Little]

Hi Kenny,
Sorry if I made you think I didn't post because of what you posted, I was not offended by your honesty. I just meant that I didn't want to get put in that same box as the guys on the list, thus I don't take the chance.
Most of my post on other forums include pictures and virtually all my pics on my computer are current so these stones are still technically for sale, even though I am not talking about selling them and of course am not listing prices, sizes etc but am talking about gemological characteristics. Some I am looking for help in identification. The pics are not allowed here and those post are useless without the pics. Other post I am talking about something gemological like I would share with another gemmo, usually about the new treatments on gemstones or a trip to a gem market, a new or old mine etc. I can see how people here may think I am being sneaky in self promotion if I were to post that way here so I can not. I do not know how my threads would differ from the guys on your list. I do add small tid bits to conversations about a term or something technical but I can't remember ever starting a thread on here.
Perhaps I have always been obsessed with what others think of me so I would rather they didn't think anything instead of thinking something bad. Best regards, Lee

 

[PursuitOfBling]

I'm not vindicating self promotion or anything, but if trades people (experts in the field) DON"T make the informed educational posts, then who IS supposed to? General consumers who know nothing about this stuff?

Good thing about these forums is that there are a lot of trades people on here, so if another disagree's or sniff's something suspicious, they can post a counter argument etc. So it semi balances it all out either way. You can't really post anything comprehensive as a trader and not have it scrutinised in some way, which is fair enough really given how much weight such recommendations may carry and the implications involved.

 

[Upgradable]

Kenny, you've posted your opinion. Everyone knows where you stand. Let it go. All you are doing is diminishing your own reputation.

 

[Edward Bristol]

Kenny,

you can’t expect me, or Richard or any other professional, to spend our days writing about gems in pure altruism.

I am responsible for a dozen families; most of which (including mine) live outside any social security net. We have no government or welfare system to fall back to and no guaranteed pay-check. It is just us, our gems and the web.

Cut us some slack! Have you ever run a company? It is not always easy.

 

[movie zombie]

i have participated on both websites: pricescopescope and gemology.
the other gemology website is almost all tradespeople, professional and amateur.
i have not experienced the accusations of self-promotion anywhere but here at pricescope.
perhaps its because that website was created for those "in the industry" rather than for consumers [who are tolerated].
personally, i think pricescope is also a marketing tool.
at some point we all think someone has crossed over the line.
pretty much happens on any forum no matter the topic.
no big, for the most part.

 

[minousbijoux]

Ed:

You too need to let it go. Posting like that does nothing to help you out.

 

[Ella]

Please stop the personal attacks or this thread will be closed.

Many trade members have found that purely through posting in a kind and educational manner they are having a positive effect on their business without needing to bend our policies.

If you feel you must self-promote to make your posts here worthwhile, then I suggest you find an alternative method of promoting your business as we aim to eliminate these posts as much as possible from the forum and will not tolerate vendors who continue to break our policies in the name of promoting their business.

I think you will find that following the policies closely and posting kind, thoughtful posts will actually yield much more in terms of promotion for your business than posts that aim to skirt or break our policies.

 

[minousbijoux]

Many trade members have found that purely through posting in a kind and educational manner they are having a positive effect on their business without needing to bend our policies.

I think you will find that following the policies closely and posting kind, thoughtful posts will actually yield much more in terms of promotion for your business than posts that aim to skirt or break our policies.

Thanks Ella. I absolutely agree with this and have found several vendors that I repeatedly do business with because of their kind, respectful, and knowledgable manner in posting here. (FWIW, there are also several that I would not relish doing any business with based on their postings and approach to this board). However, I'm not sure if that is true for all, and I imagine that there are some, particularly new members, who might be easily swayed by a direct, more aggressive approach by some vendors. Sigh.

I wonder if there is any way to have a board/forum subject devoted primarily to vendors, where they can tell us about their travels, new discoveries, post new articles they've written, respond to queries regarding certain materials we may seek - or would that be problematic?

Thanks,

-Minou

 

[Ella]

Many trade members have found that purely through posting in a kind and educational manner they are having a positive effect on their business without needing to bend our policies.

I think you will find that following the policies closely and posting kind, thoughtful posts will actually yield much more in terms of promotion for your business than posts that aim to skirt or break our policies.

Thanks Ella. I absolutely agree with this and have found several vendors that I repeatedly do business with because of their kind, respectful, and knowledgable manner in posting here. (FWIW, there are also several that I would not relish doing any business with based on their postings and approach to this board). However, I'm not sure if that is true for all, and I imagine that there are some, particularly new members, who might be easily swayed by a direct, more aggressive approach by some vendors. Sigh.

I wonder if there is any way to have a board/forum subject devoted primarily to vendors, where they can tell us about their travels, new discoveries, post new articles they've written, respond to queries regarding certain materials we may seek - or would that be problematic?

Thanks,

-Minou

We have considered it and will continue to consider it. However we feel it will likely lead to more problems than it will solve at this time. We will continue to think about it in the future.

To clarify, vendors are welcome to tell stories, new discoveries, post educational posts about different types of stones, etc. however they may not include references to items they have for sale or otherwise push their business in these posts. For example, telling a funny story about a trip to Thailand for rough is fine, telling the same story while mentioning "the incredible parcel of blue corundum that I will be cutting for a client/my website" is not ok.

Similarly, posting an "educational" post about a ruby/untreated stone/diamond, where it is clear that their intent is to push their own rubies/untreated stones/diamonds, etc. is not welcome, however if a consumer is looking for information about rubies/untreated stones/diamonds in general, they are welcome to participate in the conversation by answering questions without pushing their own wares.

Generally these types of posts are all about the intent. If the intent is for education, it is easy to see. If a vendor's main focus is to push their own wares, that is also easy to see. Hence why we so often say that kind and thoughtful posts are self-promotion enough for this forum.

Please feel free to contact us with any questions or clarifications about our policies.

 

[minousbijoux]

Thanks again for keeping us going and for considering ways to keep us a high quality, responsive site.

I definitely get the fine line.

 

[kenny]

Kenny,

you can’t expect me, or Richard or any other professional, to spend our days writing about gems in pure altruism.

I am responsible for a dozen families; most of which (including mine) live outside any social security net. We have no government or welfare system to fall back to and no guaranteed pay-check. It is just us, our gems and the web.

Cut us some slack! Have you ever run a company? It is not always easy.

Well since you are responsible for a dozen families, don't get welfare, and since running a company is hard Wildfishgems and Natural Unheated Ruby are hereby exempt from having to follow Pricescope's rules on self-promotion.

I mean, Really!
What the heck kind of reasoning and response is that?

 

[Starzin]

Hmmm...I nearly missed this party. Some comments for what they're worth.

The original post:-
Ed can only speak from his own experience in this and I thought that it was a worthwhile "heads up" post for people who want a particular stone and have or are thinking of asking a vendor to find one for them. There are some realisms contained in that post that are worth pointing out to those who come here thinking "Oh I can ask a dealer/cutter to find me a stone" and who may not be aware of, or thought about what that means.

Secondly I only seem to see this sort of post from Ed (rather than comments in other threads) but only 2 or 3 times a year and I missed the pad thread entirely. So I get where some people are coming from in their comments on it.

Subsequent comments:-
TL thanks for being you and for the yummy cake and though I might agree with Gene's hilarious post about some of it's shortcomings, you're forgiven because it's chocolate

Vendors:-
To Gene and Dana and a few others who do try to contribute to threads when they can...thank you sooooo much. It IS a fine line you have to tread and for that reason I imagine there are actually very few opportunities for you to post without commenting on another vendor's stone. However your presence and comments are always welcomed by me (and I'm sure many others).

You've made the time and effort to scan the threads to see if there is something you can take part in - and of course to that end, your name is in front of the consumers on the forum. Hopefully that brings some rewards as well as the hassles

 

[Lee Little]

Many trade members have found that purely through posting in a kind and educational manner they are having a positive effect on their business without needing to bend our policies.

I think you will find that following the policies closely and posting kind, thoughtful posts will actually yield much more in terms of promotion for your business than posts that aim to skirt or break our policies.

Thanks Ella. I absolutely agree with this and have found several vendors that I repeatedly do business with because of their kind, respectful, and knowledgable manner in posting here. (FWIW, there are also several that I would not relish doing any business with based on their postings and approach to this board). However, I'm not sure if that is true for all, and I imagine that there are some, particularly new members, who might be easily swayed by a direct, more aggressive approach by some vendors. Sigh.

I wonder if there is any way to have a board/forum subject devoted primarily to vendors, where they can tell us about their travels, new discoveries, post new articles they've written, respond to queries regarding certain materials we may seek - or would that be problematic?

Thanks,

-Minou

We have considered it and will continue to consider it. However we feel it will likely lead to more problems than it will solve at this time. We will continue to think about it in the future.

To clarify, vendors are welcome to tell stories, new discoveries, post educational posts about different types of stones, etc. however they may not include references to items they have for sale or otherwise push their business in these posts. For example, telling a funny story about a trip to Thailand for rough is fine, telling the same story while mentioning "the incredible parcel of blue corundum that I will be cutting for a client/my website" is not ok.

Similarly, posting an "educational" post about a ruby/untreated stone/diamond, where it is clear that their intent is to push their own rubies/untreated stones/diamonds, etc. is not welcome, however if a consumer is looking for information about rubies/untreated stones/diamonds in general, they are welcome to participate in the conversation by answering questions without pushing their own wares.

Generally these types of posts are all about the intent. If the intent is for education, it is easy to see. If a vendor's main focus is to push their own wares, that is also easy to see. Hence why we so often say that kind and thoughtful posts are self-promotion enough for this forum.

Please feel free to contact us with any questions or clarifications about our policies.

OK, that sounds logical so I just posted a new thread in 'colored gemstones' for educational purposes on Blue Sapphire buying. Take a look please and let me know if it is acceptable. If it is not then please delete it. Thanks, Lee

 

[minousbijoux]

Please don't delete it, as I for one, found it very interesting.