CAn someone tell me the benefit of single cuts in a band?

[Abby12]

Hi,

What is the benefit of having single cut diamonds in a band? How does it visualize differently? Is it less shiny?

 

[ChrisES]

Re: CAn someone tell me the benefit of single cuts in a band

What I've read on this forum is that because single cuts have larger facets, and the stones are so small, the single cuts actually have more "flash" to them because the big(ger) facets reflect more light.

But I am no expert. Perhaps someone has some pictures?

 

[Mrs.W 514]

Re: CAn someone tell me the benefit of single cuts in a band

This thread has some dialogue about this topic
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...-halo-featuring-a-1-52-avc-3-row-pave.169374/

 

[Gypsy]

Re: CAn someone tell me the benefit of single cuts in a band

What I've read on this forum is that because single cuts have larger facets, and the stones are so small, the single cuts actually have more "flash" to them because the big(ger) facets reflect more light.

But I am no expert. Perhaps someone has some pictures?

Exactly.

There is a visual difference. And the broader flashes are very appealing. That's the benefit.

The problem is that they are hard to match, so if you have one fall out, it's a pain. If you do go with single cuts but a few extra (4 for a single row band, 10 for a double halo) so that if you need a repair you already have matching melee available. And even Leon's pave loses stones, so it's a smart precaution no matter who you use.

 

[berry731]

Re: CAn someone tell me the benefit of single cuts in a band

Hi, I don't want to thread jack- but I just have a quick question regarding single cut diamonds. I had a setting custom made from China off a seller from Ebay. I took the setting and stone to the jeweler to have it set and he basically told me the setting was crap (without saying so much) because it had single cut diamonds. I thought the setting looked very pretty, but ever since I had met with that jeweler I just assumed single cut diamonds were not as valuable, especially since the setting only cost around $350 and was a halo setting. So, my question to you is, was the jeweler just saying this because single cut diamonds are an older cut?

 

[oldminer]

Re: CAn someone tell me the benefit of single cuts in a band

SC diamonds cost a bit less because less labor goes into faceting them. They have fewer facets. NOTHING is defective about them and under 0.02ct they really can look superb. The style today is for Full Cut diamonds regarless of size. That's fine, but of no real extra beauty under 0.02ct size. SC diamonds do not equate with junk unless the diamonds are poorly cut, off color, highly imperfect, etc. They are not difficult to find or to replace. Dealers often say pretty much anything that works for them at the time.

 

[maplefemme]

Re: CAn someone tell me the benefit of single cuts in a band

SC diamonds cost a bit less because less labor goes into faceting them. They have fewer facets. NOTHING is defective about them and under 0.02ct they really can look superb. The style today is for Full Cut diamonds regarless of size. That's fine, but of no real extra beauty under 0.02ct size. SC diamonds do not equate with junk unless the diamonds are poorly cut, off color, highly imperfect, etc. They are not difficult to find or to replace. Dealers often say pretty much anything that works for them at the time.

Oldminer, you say single cuts cost less, how come we are charged a high premium for them, significantly higher than full cut melee?

 

[Gypsy]

Re: CAn someone tell me the benefit of single cuts in a band

SC diamonds cost a bit less because less labor goes into faceting them. They have fewer facets. NOTHING is defective about them and under 0.02ct they really can look superb. The style today is for Full Cut diamonds regarless of size. That's fine, but of no real extra beauty under 0.02ct size. SC diamonds do not equate with junk unless the diamonds are poorly cut, off color, highly imperfect, etc. They are not difficult to find or to replace. Dealers often say pretty much anything that works for them at the time.

They are hard to find an replace unless you are working with a vendor that deals with antiques/vintage pieces regularly. Most jewelers do not work with them regularly, and therefore do not stock them. They also do not buy them in mass bulk, the way they do full cut melee, so they do end up costing more actually than full cut melee when you only need to replace a few or if you want some special ordered for a custom ring.

Also it takes time for them to get it in, so it's not a one day repair. It's a week repair.

The vendors I worked with are not the "say anything type" they are VERY reputable PS vendors and even got me matching melee once I had a repair for free and sent it to me so I could stock it for the next time I needed a repair, just because it was such a pain to source it the first time, and they wanted to save me the angst of having to deal with that again.

Old Timer,I respectfully disagree.

 

[maplefemme]

Re: CAn someone tell me the benefit of single cuts in a band

SC diamonds cost a bit less because less labor goes into faceting them. They have fewer facets. NOTHING is defective about them and under 0.02ct they really can look superb. The style today is for Full Cut diamonds regarless of size. That's fine, but of no real extra beauty under 0.02ct size. SC diamonds do not equate with junk unless the diamonds are poorly cut, off color, highly imperfect, etc. They are not difficult to find or to replace. Dealers often say pretty much anything that works for them at the time.

They are hard to find an replace unless you are working with a vendor that deals with antiques/vintage pieces regularly. Most jewelers do not work with them regularly, and therefore do not stock them. They also do not buy them in mass bulk, the way they do full cut melee, so they do end up costing more actually than full cut melee when you only need to replace a few or if you want some special ordered for a custom ring.

Also it takes time for them to get it in, so it's not a one day repair. It's a week repair.

The vendors I worked with are not the "say anything type" they are VERY reputable PS vendors and even got me matching melee once I had a repair for free and sent it to me so I could stock it for the next time I needed a repair, just because it was such a pain to source it the first time, and they wanted to save me the angst of having to deal with that again.

Old Timer,I respectfully disagree.

This has also been my experience, Gypsy.

 

[maplefemme]

Re: CAn someone tell me the benefit of single cuts in a band

Hi, I don't want to thread jack- but I just have a quick question regarding single cut diamonds. I had a setting custom made from China off a seller from Ebay. I took the setting and stone to the jeweler to have it set and he basically told me the setting was crap (without saying so much) because it had single cut diamonds. I thought the setting looked very pretty, but ever since I had met with that jeweler I just assumed single cut diamonds were not as valuable, especially since the setting only cost around $350 and was a halo setting. So, my question to you is, was the jeweler just saying this because single cut diamonds are an older cut?

I wouldn't expect quality single cut melee in a $350 halo setting made in China, or anywhere. No unkind sentiment intended at all, it's just not a realistic price for a quality setting. For such a price there is a compromise, usually in quality and craftsmanship.

 

[Victor Canera]

Re: CAn someone tell me the benefit of single cuts in a band

SC diamonds cost a bit less because less labor goes into faceting them. They have fewer facets. NOTHING is defective about them and under 0.02ct they really can look superb. The style today is for Full Cut diamonds regarless of size. That's fine, but of no real extra beauty under 0.02ct size. SC diamonds do not equate with junk unless the diamonds are poorly cut, off color, highly imperfect, etc. They are not difficult to find or to replace. Dealers often say pretty much anything that works for them at the time.

Great write up David.
Indian polished single-cuts do cost less than their Indian full-cut counterparts.
When you go to ideal Russian or Chinese polished single-cut melee, the same type of stones used by high end watch companies, you can expect to pay an order of magnitude higher cost.
And yes, there is a difference. Indian single-cut melee are polished pretty poorly. Off round stones are very common. Because the facets are larger, more precise polishing is required to make the stones look perfectly symmetrical. To me, Indian polishers haven't reached that point yet. Since Russian and Chinese polished melee have become a niche market used on high-end jewelry or watches, with few manufacturers, competition isn't really there. Also, factoring the higher labor costs of these polishing centers, these particular stones end up costing more.

Good luck on your quest.

 

[maplefemme]

Re: CAn someone tell me the benefit of single cuts in a band

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SC diamonds cost a bit less because less labor goes into faceting them. They have fewer facets. NOTHING is defective about them and under 0.02ct they really can look superb. The style today is for Full Cut diamonds regarless of size. That's fine, but of no real extra beauty under 0.02ct size. SC diamonds do not equate with junk unless the diamonds are poorly cut, off color, highly imperfect, etc. They are not difficult to find or to replace. Dealers often say pretty much anything that works for them at the time.

Great write up David.
Indian polished single-cuts do cost less than their Indian full-cut counterparts.
When you go to ideal Russian or Chinese polished single-cut melee, the same type of stones used by high end watch companies, you can expect to pay an order of magnitude higher cost.
And yes, there is a difference. Indian single-cut melee are polished pretty poorly. Off round stones are very common. Because the facets are larger, more precise polishing is required to make the stones look perfectly symmetrical. To me, Indian polishers haven't reached that point yet. Since Russian and Chinese polished melee have become a niche market used on high-end jewelry or watches, with few manufacturers, competition isn't really there. Also, factoring the higher labor costs of these polishing centers, these particular stones end up costing more.

Good luck on your quest.

Thank you Victor. As I posted to Gypsy, this has been my experience also, though I was not aware of the regional differences between cutters so this was interesting additional info to know.

My question, in light of Victor's insight, would be to Oldminer - you had stated that single cuts are less expensive than full cut melee, so as an appraiser, have you valued them in appraisals as less valuable?
Now with the information that there's actually a high premium for well cut single cuts over full cut melee, would you appraise them at a higher value?

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: CAn someone tell me the benefit of single cuts in a band

Actully we should separate Single Cuts- also known as 8/8- into two groups.
1) ultra cheap Indian goods- years ago, when "full cut" diamonds in smaller sizes were newer, they were thought to be "better" than single cuts. It's still possible to find some very cheap Indian single cut diamonds.
2) High end single cuts. These goods, coming out of Belgium, and China are extremely in demand today- as they are used in high end watches.
Market price of extra fine single cuts today is about 30% higher than similar size quality full cuts.
Incredible, but true.


ETA- posting while Victor was- we agree.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: CAn someone tell me the benefit of single cuts in a band

Some crude sketches of single cut facet deign.
It's known as 8/8 because the're 8 top corners, and 8 pavilion facets.

 

[oldminer]

Re: CAn someone tell me the benefit of single cuts in a band

When you source the best cut of full cut small diamonds and the best cut of single cut diamonds you always will pay dearly compared to the average cost of less well cut stones. The labor to cut single cuts is less so their cost is less. How much you agree to pay for a supply of them is totally up to the person asking a price and the person offering to buy them. The demand factor and the supply factor both must be considered. I see very few fine cut single cuts mostly because the usual demand is for full cut diamonds. When the supply is tight then of course, those attempting to land a great lot of fine single cuts will have to fork over the higher level of asking price than if the supply was totally adequate.

When I used to use small diamonds in items we manufactured we used nicely cut stones, but it was not a period of "ideal cut" awareness. Single cuts of equal cut quality to the full cuts we used were less costly per carat for the same weight, color and clarity and it made sense. Demand and supply can be out of sync with one another from time to time and so it is possible that superb single cuts command a premium today but not because of their value, but because of their current scarcity. When that happens, manufacturers see opportunity and eventually supply rises to take out the premium from the asking price. Maybe that will happen again, as it usually does, in a free market environment.

Most users of single cuts do take advantage of the lower cost of normal cut sc diamonds from normal cut fc diamonds. The vast majority of small diamonds are far from ideal cut types. The Pricescope shopper is at the top pinnacle of quality and knowledge and the masses are not informed enough to know anything except what the salesman happens to tell them.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: CAn someone tell me the benefit of single cuts in a band

Dave- the situation today is that the labor cost has little effect on the prices of single cuts.
They're just very hard to find.
Need 1mm E-F Cull cut diamonds? We can find literally 50 dealers selling them on 47th street.
Single Cuts? You could count the suppliers on your nose.
And believe me, we've scoured the market.
We've even asked our normal suppliers of full cuts- but they're not interested in going into single cuts.
This has created a situation where the price of single cut diamonds has risen due to lack of competition.
Luckily, any given piece generally has small quantities- so the overall monetary effect is not all that great.


Here's a photo showing single cuts in a shank

 

[Gypsy]

Re: CAn someone tell me the benefit of single cuts in a band

Bottom line is, Dave it sounds like you are a little out of touch with current market conditions. Even old timers learn things on here.

This is exactly why we advise people when they get any pave pieces made with single cut melee to buy some loose stones, keep them someplace safe for a rainy day repair.

It's just the smart, low stress, thing to do. When you buy the stones at the same time you buy your piece they are from the same lot, cost less, and also you KNOW they will match your existing stones. Then if and when you lose a stone you don't need to panic. You go to your stash, pull out a replacement and find a great bench to do the repair for you.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: CAn someone tell me the benefit of single cuts in a band

In terms of buying extra stones to use in the event of a stone loss- although it sounds like a good idea there are a number of considerations:
1) In the finest micro pave there's many different sizes used- and each spot on the ring has a very tight tolerance for the stone that can go there. Therefore it will be necessary to buy a range of sizes to cover all possibilities of potential stone replacement

2) if a stone does need to be replaced on a fine micro pave piece, there's not a lot of benches who can replace a stone- in fact, the place that made it would be far and away the place most likely to perform a repair that is not noticeable. But in general, you'll need a specialist- and such jewelers can source the replacement in the exact size needed.

ETA- Gypsy- we agree that old timers can learn a lot here- not that I'm old mind you.....