Questions for jewelers!!! Vapidlapid, Michael E, etc....

[Treenbean]

I need some help. I am going to start to make jewelry. I am going to try to find classes or an accomplished jeweler who will help me, or read and try to learn myself. My starting point right now is the Tim McCreight book. But the real problem is trying to figure out what tools to buy. Otto Frei has a metal smithing set http://www.ottofrei.com/store/product.php?productid=19926&cat=3580&page=1 Rio grande also has some kits http://www.riogrande.com/MemberArea...Tools+and+Equipment&category|cat_120|350=Kits If either of these kits has an advantage let me know. Or if you know of another company/have some good advice, I'm all ears.
Thanks in advance.






edited to fix urls

 

[Michael_E]

Re: Questions for jewelers!!! Vapidlapid, Michael E, etc...

I need some help. I am going to start to make jewelry. I am going to try to find classes or an accomplished jeweler who will help me, or read and try to learn myself. My starting point right now is the Tim McCreight book. But the real problem is trying to figure out what tools to buy. Otto Frei has a metal smithing set http://www.ottofrei.com/store/product.php?productid=19926&cat=3580&page=1 Rio grande also has some kits http://www.riogrande.com/MemberArea...Tools+and+Equipment&category|cat_120|350=Kits If either of these kits has an advantage let me know. Or if you know of another company/have some good advice, I'm all ears.
Thanks in advance.

The tools that you need are dependent upon the type of work you'll be doing. Those tool kits have a lot of stuff in them that you may never use or may only use once in a very rare while. Are you planning on fabricating larger items in silver or mainly making smaller things like rings? If you're doing larger stuff, then all those hammers, bracelet mandrels and so forth would come in handy, if not, then they'd be a waste of money. Most of the jewelers I know really don't work on a huge variety of different things in different sizes and so they just make do with what they have on hand or make special tools when the need comes up. What kind of work are you interested being involved in?

 

[Treenbean]

Re: Questions for jewelers!!! Vapidlapid, Michael E, etc...

Hi Michael,
I want to make earrings. I have a slight obsession. I spend a lot of time drawing designs, looking at and buying gems and jewelry. I feel like if I don't, at least, try to do this I will have lost out on a dream. I recently started a new job and can now afford to buy some tools to start. I do have an interest in making rings but I don't know how well I will do with this new hobby. Some people have said to start with copper, learn how to solder, shape, etc, then move into silver etc. Get progressively better and then move on. I have read the Tim McCreight book and know that there is a lot I don't know, ie annealing.
Is there a basic set that you would suggest?

 

[Michael_E]

Re: Questions for jewelers!!! Vapidlapid, Michael E, etc...

Hi Michael,
I want to make earrings. I have a slight obsession. I spend a lot of time drawing designs, looking at and buying gems and jewelry. I feel like if I don't, at least, try to do this I will have lost out on a dream. I recently started a new job and can now afford to buy some tools to start. I do have an interest in making rings but I don't know how well I will do with this new hobby. Some people have said to start with copper, learn how to solder, shape, etc, then move into silver etc. Get progressively better and then move on. I have read the Tim McCreight book and know that there is a lot I don't know, ie annealing.
Is there a basic set that you would suggest?

Well, I'd skip those sets if you're doing small things like earrings and rings, since you'll never use all those hammers and mandrels. If you're going to be fabricating from parts and not casting, then all you really need is a good torch, a few hammers, files, pliers and maybe a flexshaft machine or even a dremel, (they work O.K., but are a bit heavy in the hand for long periods). Things like mandrels are neat, but for small stuff like earrings you can do just as well by getting a flat block of steel and maybe a few cheap auto body dolly blocks. The idea is to NOT use a lot of tools, but only those that you really need. When you're starting you have no idea and so it's best to get the minimum and then buy other stuff as you need it. Things like the dapping tools, (for making curved surfaces), are neat, but unless you are doing lots of curved sheet metal work, they are an expensive toy.

If I were you I'd get this cheap set: http://www.riogrande.com/MemberArea...Tools+and+Equipment&category|cat_120|350=Kits
Then get a good torch, (burning oxygen and propane), a heat shield to solder on, a good bench, a flexshaft and some burs, smoothing rubber wheels, brushes and polishing wheels and one good ring mandrel. Then just start messing around with it. I would stick with silver initially, as copper doesn't give you anything to save when you make your first masterpieces, (there are no copper colored solders). You'll need a pickle pot to take the oxides off the metal after soldering, (I use a little crock pot).

If you keep working at it and maybe go visit a bench person who can give you tips now and then, you'll get the idea really rapidly and then be able to figure out which tools you really need and which you can scavenge from other areas. Some stuff can do dual duty as well. For instance I buy tiny carbide burs and once the bur loses it's ability to cut I sharpen the end of the bur to a chisel shape and it makes a very fine small drill or graver depending on how you hold it.

If your designs require intricate wax work, that's a whole different set of tools and skills. Shoot me an E-mail with some of your design images and I'll give you my opinion about what sorts of tools would be most useful.

 

[Treenbean]

Re: Questions for jewelers!!! Vapidlapid, Michael E, etc...

Thanks Michael! I will try to scan and send some things out to you tomorrow, if my scanner cooperates.

 

[deorwine]

Re: Questions for jewelers!!! Vapidlapid, Michael E, etc...

Not a jeweler, but I really like to make jewelry, very badly, as a hobby, so at least I'm at the right skill level to answer

I highly, HIGHLY recommend finding a class or some sort of mentor before sinking a lot of money into tools. (If you happen to be in the SoCal area I might be able to recommend some, even. If not, try your local Adult Ed, look for a local lapidary society, and/or ask around any jewelers at craft shows or in the area to see if they know of something.) I found by taking classes that I love pounding metal, soldering it, and otherwise messing with it (fabrication), but I hate wax carving. (Of course your mileage will vary! Most people in the classes I took were the other way around -- they loved the wax carving but hated soldering.) Also my teachers had a lot of great advice that it's hard to find in books because the books don't see the wrong way you're doing stuff. (One of my teachers recently pointed out, for example, that I've been sawing incorrectly this whole time... I used to hate sawing but now I realize I hated it because I was doing it wrong and it was really hard the way I was doing it!)

As a total beginner I concur with Michael E that there's no point in buying a kit when you don't even know what you want to do yet. Michael E will laugh at me, but I have a bench pin, a saw, pliers and files, steel block, some random stone-setting tools, and a totally jury-rigged soldering setup Michael E would wince to see with a handheld Blazer butane torch that was $40 from amazon, and citric acid for pickle. I obviously can't do bigger pieces with this setup, and the pickle doesn't work that great, but for learning experiences for rings and earrings it's fine. My husband has also helped a lot with contributing hammers and files and other small tools from his tool chest.

People suggest practicing with copper only because silver is so darn expensive these days. The classes I've taken mostly used silver, although there's been a push towards copper lately. When not in class, I usually try to learn techniques on copper (e.g., trying to learn flush setting stones, which so far I've been an utter failure at ) or silver scrap from other projects so that I"m not "wasting money" on something that is probably not going to work that well.

I got some of my supplies, and most of my metal, from monsterslayer.com -- very nice people and can also answer questions you have.

 

[deorwine]

Re: Questions for jewelers!!! Vapidlapid, Michael E, etc...

Oh, another thing you could look into is "Precious Metal Clay" (PMC or Art Clay Silver) which is, basically, silver in clay form. You mold it kind of like clay (apparently it is a lot like pottery clay which I know nothing about) and then fire it and finish it. It's possible to make beautiful textured/formed designs with a minimum of equipment and fuss. But of course it's got its own startup costs (you need a kiln or at least a torch to fire it; a real kiln is hundreds of dollars but a small Ultralite beehive kiln for small earrings/rings is about $150 I think) and its own idiosyncracies. The resulting product is pure silver which is way too soft for rings but might work OK for earrings.

This was actually the first jewelry class I ever took. I ended up not liking PMC nearly as much as fabrication (there's just something I love about pounding metal and seeing solder flow that isn't satisfied by squishing clay) but I know people who loooove it, and definitely there are exciting things you can do with it that are hard to fabricate.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Re: Questions for jewelers!!! Vapidlapid, Michael E, etc...

Here are my 2 cents.

First, get Robert von Neumann's book, "The Design and Creation of Jewelry". It is an older book, from the 70s if I remember correctl, and it was written as a textbook. It has no projects, but it is very clear and goes into a lot of detail that I rarely find anywhere else (for example, where to place the solder paillon and from which direction to heat in a variety of situations - this saved my hide in a recent, rather unusual project).

Considering that you want to make small things, I would get:

- small butane torch (this can go a long way before upgrading and the investment is minimal)
- jeweler's saw and spare blades
- small steel block or miniature anvil
- weighed leather mallet
- planishing hammer
- jeweler's hammer
- ring mandrel (good for all sorts of round shapes, not just rings)
- burnisher
- set of small files
- large, more aggressive half round file
- needle nosed pliers
- flat pliers
- half round pliers
- nylon pliers
- dremel or flex shaft (I started out with a small dremel with a pistol handle which is much easier to hold than the usual model)
- some small drill bits
- some small ball burrs
- 3m polishing wheels (the small ones)
- tweezers for picking up hot metal parts
- cross locking tweezers
- somewhere to solder on
- vinegar and salt solution for pickling (I prefer this to hot pickle)

This is the basic tool kit I use on a day to day basis and I would miss any of those tools if they were missing.

There are also a ton of great sites, blogs and forums on the internet that support beginners. Look for "Aspiring Metalsmiths" on Facebook for a wonderful group of people who range from rank beginners to masters.

 

[Michael_E]

Re: Questions for jewelers!!! Vapidlapid, Michael E, etc...

As a total beginner I concur with Michael E that there's no point in buying a kit when you don't even know what you want to do yet. Michael E will laugh at me, but I have a bench pin, a saw, pliers and files, steel block, some random stone-setting tools, and a totally jury-rigged soldering setup Michael E would wince to see with a handheld Blazer butane torch that was $40 from amazon, and citric acid for pickle. I obviously can't do bigger pieces with this setup, and the pickle doesn't work that great, but for learning experiences for rings and earrings it's fine. My husband has also helped a lot with contributing hammers and files and other small tools from his tool chest.

Nope, I never laugh at other peoples setups. You ought to see what I use on a day to day basis. I've got the bench and all the "stuff", but it mostly just lays there for special applications. My day to day tools are the same ones that I started with and they still work just fine, (well except for the microscope...that sure is handy when setting tiny stones). Most of jewelry making is not about tools, but about strategy in how you're going to build a piece. Once you've got that down you're 90% there.