World War I

[AGBF]

World War I is generally considered to have started on August 4, 1914. The United States entered the war in 1917, the same year that the newly formed Soviet Union left it. When should the US have entered the war...if at all?

 

[AGBF]

Good job for a World War II guy, Steve! You are referring to Lend-Lease, which had the enemies of our friends saying we were not truly neutral!

I''m up for a general discussion (as started by you). I think it''s important in determining what was really going on.

If you want to do World War II first, however, I am amenable. It starts on a different date depending on where you lived .

Deb

 

[fire&ice]

Why do I remember pithy banners?

"The shot heard round the world." And, yeah, it was an excuse. I just finished reading a book that charges the war was fueled by the Arms dealers. - fiction of course.

 

[AGBF]

Steve,

I empathize with the Hurting Brain Syndrome (HBS). I believe it is usually experienced by older parents when their children get to fifth grade and are doing math they cannot remember in a way they cannot figure out. It then worsens until the child stops needing any assistance whatsoever with his schoolwork. I have heard rumors that a time comes when that happens, but I am afraid it may be an Old Wives'' Tale.

I applaud your efforsts, which seem very sophisticated to me. You certainly recall your history in a sophisticated manner, remembering to question everything. (Isn''t it amazing what education does for us! The *brightest* of my high school students had trouble questioning the text book. When I was teaching about the Punic Wars our text, "Roman Rulers and Rebels", said that the Roman troops ate a hot breakfast before going into battle with Hannibal and the Carthaginians. I asked how anyone would know that? What an eye opener!!! The book was relying on evidence supplied by the Roman historian Livy, who was born (or wrote) (even I forget history!) 50 years after the Punic Wars. In my opinion education, whether or not we remember facts, teaches us methods.)

At any rate, yes...the Treaty of Versailles and its war reparations is very important in understanding the causes of World War II. You also recall the difference between the CAUSE of the war and the incident that happened to spark it. F&I, you get an A for "the shot heard ''round the world"!

Deb

 

[fire&ice]

Like Steve, I know more about WWII. Perhaps because it is more recent & the direct outcome would have impacted my life. Also, my Dad is a WWII vet. I''ve been to Dachou (sp?), Normandy & other WWII sites. And, participated in a knock down drag out debate in High School history class about whether FDR knew the Japanese were going to bomb Pearl Harbor ahead of time & did nothing. Funny, from that experience, I remember quite a bit about history of the time.

That said, I also am interested in reading "what could have happened". Has anyone read "Fatherland"? I am off to the bookstore to buy Hubby the new book by Phillip Roth regarding Lindenberg''s Presidency

.

Sorry to hijack this thread to be about WWII. I only remember WWI from history lessons. Woodrow Wilson''s 14 points. And, the fact that style Art Deco replaced style Arts & Crafts when the soldiers returned home w/ experiencing French Art Deco (yes, my little world).

Also, Arafat died about an hour ago. I know it''s not related to this thread; but, I know it''s readers like to stay up on current events.

 

[AGBF]

Thank you for the news on Arafat. I heard it here. I heard about the 9/11 attacks while writing on Diamond Talk! I remember Juan, who was a pilot, saying it was impossible for two planes to collide into the World Trade Center buildings accidentally .

Edited to add that after reading what F&I wrote I went to "The New York Times" website and found this, odd report:

"Conflicting reports over the condition of the Palestinian leader Yasir Arafat put the spotlight today on the future leadership of the Palestinian Authority and on its potential impact on any resumption of Middle East peace negotiations with Israel.

Some news agency reports from Europe said Mr. Arafat had died in a French military hospital where he had been receiving treatment for an undisclosed ailment since last week. But officials at the French hospital, as well as the Palestinian prime minister, were were quoted today as denying those reports and asserting that Mr. Arafat was still alive.

And the prime minister of Luxembourg, who earlier today told reporters in Brussels that Mr. Arafat was dead, later retracted his statement, according to news agencies."


This is weird. If he has died, why the secrecy?

 

[fire&ice]

My gut is his is dead & they want to fly the body back to Palestine so he can "die" there. Yes, I''ve read the conflicting reports. It is weird. Here''s what happened here.

Pres. scheduled a news conference. He was late - which despite what you feel about him - the guy is *very* prompt. He came out quite befuddled (o.k. - you say - and your point - but no, he really looked different - like something was up). During the news conference a reporter stated "We have been informed that Arafat has died. Do you have any comment (sic)" The Pres didn''t seem surprised. Said, something like "may God bless his soul. & I hope for a Palistinian state that can live peacefully w/ Israel." The news stations carried the story. Then after 1/2 hour, they came on to say they did not have confirmation of such. So, I don''t know what''s up.

I remember reading that DT thread about 9/11 after the fact. It was eerie. And, like anyone else, I remember where I was like it was yesterday. I slept in & had not listened to the news. I just turned on the radio driving to my site. I thought it was a joke at first. When I started to realize it wasn''t, I called my husband. He said it''s no joke, get out here quick, security thinks we (US) are under some sort of attack. The rest is surreal. I remember it was such a beautiful crystal clear day which even added to it.

 

[jenwill]

The news over here has finally taken a break from US election coverage, and is now focusing completely on Arafat. He has reportedly been ''moved to another facility which can better take care of his condition'' according to the hospital official who was given permission to talk (very little).

Theory is he is on life support, to be moved back home.

On 9/11, I was sitting on a plane, on the runway, ready to fly non-stop from San Francisco to Dulles. Supposed to have taken off at 6am, but had monitor problems for safety demo.This kept us on runway for a couple of extra minutes, which then lead to flight attendant coming on intercomt o say that there was a problem with ''the luggage'', and we were going to go back to the gate to fix it. As we pulled up, she informed us that it may take awhile, so why don''t we all deplane for comfort....yeah right we all said, something is up- they never deplane ''for comfort''.

So we got off plane- airport still pretty deserted so early. No TV''s on. One person got a cell call to tell them about 1st plane. I calle dmy roommate and woke her up. She turned on TV and said- no it is the Pentagon, not WTC. THen many ''OMG''s''. SO airport intercom basically told us it would be at least 4 hours before first flight to take off, so we may as well go home if we lived nearby.

Very surreal to be walking out of deserted airport.

Went straight to my mom''s work s she knew I was supposed to fly that morning, to tell her I was OK.

Then went to work...didn''t really know what elso to do.

Struck me later that I was on the first flight that was to leave west coast, with very full tanks, to fly cross-country. If we had not been delayed, we would have been in air when planes struck....was the timing meant to allow any west coast planes to take off to be used also?

Sorry to ''hijack'' (I hate that phrase now) your WWI thread, it is 12:30am, I woke up after sleepign 3 hours, cannot sleep but also cannot get my mind to recall anything other than vividly imprinted memories...when i wake up some more I will join in!

 

[fire&ice]

jenwill, since non of us seem to be up on WW1 ....this is an interesting morf. I wish I could tell more. Surreal indeed.

 

[Todd07]

Wikipedia blames the French for WW1

The Frech revolution and Napolean lead to a general rise in Nationalism that spread across Europe. The below article is intersting.

Diplomatic origins of WW1

 

[pricescope]

Date: 11/4/2004 8:30

1 PM
Author: Todd07
Wikipedia blames the French for WW1

Well, Marxism-Leninism teaches us that WWI was caused by natural transmission of the capitalism into imperialism. Nationalistic sentiments were used and specifically developed by the capitalist governments to cover the real reasons of killing the millions of people: getting more power (capital, market, land etc.)

How''s that for a change?

 

[AGBF]

Date: 11/4/2004 7:59:37 PM
Author: Feydakin

As for the details of the economics that led to the war (economics are always why we war) I have not even the vaguest recollection

The theory used to be (back when I was still reading history) that the more modernized states (Germany, France, England) were dragged into the war by their less powerful allies who were the *old* European powers: Russia and Austria. Russia, as a Slavic state, felt ties to Serbia. Austria (then the Austro-Hungarian Empire) ruled the Balkans where, on a visit, their Crown Prince, Franz Ferdinand, was assassinated by a Serbian rebel in Bosnia-Herzegovina.

The Germans and French were engaged in rivalry at the same time. The Franco-Prussian War had left France humiliated and deprived of territory while the newly unified Germany was one up. France was determined to reverse its fortunes, which it felt were unjust. After World War I, the French exacted their revenge on the Germans, demanding war reparations and land back from Germany. Germany''s position after World War I made it ripe for a demagogue like Hitler who could assure the Germans that he would restore their dignity.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 11/4/2004 8:47:10 PM
Author: leonid

Well, Marxism-Leninism teaches us that WWI was caused by natural transmission of the capitalism into imperialism. Nationalistic sentiments were used and specifically developed by the capitalist governments to cover the real reasons of killing the millions of people: getting more power (capital, market, land etc.)

Ah, how that brings me back to my days as a Marxist in college! Imperialism as a stage of capitalism!