Is this diamond considered an IDEAL cut?

[Carolynw]

I just bought a diamond and I''m worried about it
I was hoping to get an ideal cut, but came home and
was hoping someone could help me to see if I did, or close.
Here are the measurements.
7.37 - 7.44 x 4.67 mm
Weight 1.57 carat
Proportions
Depth 63.1%
Table 56%
Girdle MEDIUM
Cutlet NONE
Finish Polish VERY GOOD Symmetry VERY GOOD Clarity Grade VS2
Color GRADE D Flourescence NONE
I was hoping someone could tell me if they think I paid too much and also if the diamond is not well proportioned, of course where I bought it said it was well cut. I paid $16,000.00. Thank you.

 

[Rank Amateur]

First, remember that there is no universally accepted criteria for what constitutes an "ideal" cut. AGS and other labs use "ideal" on their reports, but one needs to be careful when the term ideal is thrown around.

Second, you don't have enough info on your stone to know if it is really well proportioned. You know the total depth, but you don't know how much of it is crown, girdle, or pavillion. The grades for polish and symmetry are not top-notch either.

All that said, it still may be a GREAT stone!

 

[Carolynw]

Thanks for responding. GIA did the grading.
Your right, I don't have the exact proportional measurements,
all I could see is that is had good brillance.
There are so many to choose from, I just had to rely
this time on the jeweler and hope that he didn't pick
out a bad diamond for me. Thanks again.

 

[Patty]

A GIA report will not give you the crown and pavillion angles. You need to have a Sarin report on the stone to get those. Your depth is at the upper limit of what most people consider ideal. (59-63%) I looked at a couple of SuperbCert ideal cut stones and I think that the diameter of a 1.57 stone ideal cut should be around 7.5mms or so. So yours is close but may be a tiny bit deeper than ideal. How does it look to you? A D color is amazing and a VS2 clarity is wonderful! I don't know about the price although it sounds pretty good off the top of my head for the color and clarity.

 

[Carolynw]

The stone looked good, It just gets too overwhelming.
I just trusted this dealer and thought the D color
with the clarity of VS2 seemed good. Also, it
did have a lot of sparkle and brillance, I looked
at it with outside light, and inside light.
So, according to your calculations, im right at the
end of it being ideal. So, is it bad not to have an
exact ideal cut diamond, im close right?

 

[Patty]

It sounds gorgeous Carolyn! If you are uncertain about it, you could take it to an independent appraiser or go back to your jeweler and ask for a Sarin report. That will tell you about the oh-so-important angles. You also can read the tutorials here at Pricescope about cut and do a search on ideal cuts. You say, though, that you loved the way the stone looked inside and outside. I think you are having a bit of buyer's remorse. Remember, though, that you cannot do any better than a D color and the VS2 clarity is the "sweet spot" that many people recommend. It sounds like you have a beautiful stone but only you know if you are happy with it or if you need to explore further.

 

[Mara]

You don't have enough information to have anyone tell you if it is an ideal diamond.




You do, however, have enough information for someone to wave a red flag on a few things and have you get a 2nd opinion or have the vendor run a Sarin to get more info.




The red flags are the depth at 63.1 is definitely not ideal and the diameter measurements of the stone corroborate this...the stone should have more spread than it does and most likely looks more like a 1.50c stone or similar. A well-cut stone of 1.57c should be around 7.55mm and yours is at 7.40mm.




Looking at color and clarity are only two of the C's. What about cut? This is the most important C in my opinion..it's what makes the diamond look it's absolute best.




Just out of curiousity, why would you spend $16k on a diamond and THEN try to get more information on it? Don't feel pressured into this purchase, use your return policy window and get an independent appraisal within that timeframe to really get an expert opinion on the stone.




Never 'rely' on anyone to spend your money wisely...that's your responsibility.




Good luck!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Ask to see it with an ideal-scope.
Read about it under the Tools link on the top bar

 

[Lynn B]

Not much to add to the above great info... but as a comparison -- my stone is an AGS 0 of similar weight (1.53), and its total depth is 60.7, with a spread of 7.49 x 7.51 (x 4.55). It's a G/VS2 and I paid a little over $12K; but that was a few months ago; prices unfortunately have continued to rise, although (IMHO) $16K does sound a little high. You could do a search on PS for similar sizes and specs for a better handle on that, though.

If you feel remorse, then check w/ your vendor about a refund or exchange. Or request a sarin report if you want to know the crown and pav angles. Or you can send the stone to an independent appraiser, who will (most likely)be able to run a sarin for you.

But if you LOVE this stone, then my humble advice is to trust your eyes. There are lots of beautiful, well-loved stones here on PS that fall outside of "ideal". You may very well have one of them!

Lynn

 

[Carolynw]

Thank you. I appreciate your help.
I was going to ask the jeweler to help me again decide.
I do believe it had sparkle and brillance, but
you forget when you leave the store. And im glad
you mentioned I still have a good diamond
even though it falls out of the ideal.

 

[Carolynw]

Well I kind of freaked out and canceled
the check i wrote them for 8000.00.
They had not yet put it in the bank since its saturday.
My goal after reading and reading about diamonds
was to purchase an ideal cut diamond. All the books,
internet directions for purchasing and diamond indicate
cut is the most important. My husband says im being too picky, but
it's a lot of money I'm spending. The diamond I got was not an ideal
cut, based on everyone here, in fact, it had good color and clarity
and that is why it was probably 16,000.00 if it also had good cut
then it would have been more. I don't even care if I go down in color
to what i can afford if it has a good cut. Anyway, I need to call the
jeweler monday and tell him not to put the check in, i hope he isn't
upset with me. This diamond buying experience is rough. I wish i had
an expert to go with me, and my husband is not an expert. I saved this money and it took a long time and I just want a good cut diamond and nice stone. Thank you for all your help, I really appreciated everyones comments.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Carolyn this is what you might see if you looked at a diamond with those proportions with an ideal-scope. (But I have olnly a little data to go on)

 

[Carolynw]

Hi again. So, looking at this it doesn't then appear to be an ideal cut,
am I correct?

I forgot to mention some other things when I went to the jewelry store,
when I mentioned ideal cut, he kind of laughed and said what is really the ideal cut. Then I mentioned the ideal scope and he said that was an internet scam or gadget that doesn't really matter. That kind of concerned me also now because everything I read here says the Ideal Scope is good for a consumer that doesn't know what they are looking at to realize it's an ideal cut. I'm not good a math, I just want a good ideal cut.

Well, I did cancel the check i wrote yesterday and plan on calling them on Monday to tell them not to put the check through. I am going to ask them instead to find me a diamond with better proportions, one that is considered ideal and then i will make my decision on if i should purchase it there. They are hard to find, because these jewelry stores do not carry large selections of these types and sizes, even the high end jewelry stores.
Thanks again for helping.

 

[alexah]

----------------
On 10/17/2004 6:11:24 AM Carolynw wrote:

My goal after reading and reading about diamonds

was to purchase an ideal cut diamond. All the books,

internet directions for purchasing and diamond indicate

cut is the most important... The diamond I got was not an ideal

cut, based on everyone here, in fact, it had good color and clarity

and that is why it was probably 16,000.00 if it also had good cut

then it would have been more. ----------------

Maybe it would have been more from that store but not necessarily on the internet... for ex, there's this beautiful (1.5 HCA) WF
1.59ct E VS2 which is $15280 before the PS discount (and it's got a luvly idealscope shot)...

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Try doing a search for jewelers and diamonds on-line with the blue link on the top right of the page - Local Jewelers and see what is available.
You may find the same jeweler or another in your area.

 

[Carolynw]

Everyone says don't buy from the internet
if you can't even select a good diamond from
a jewelry store, that is my problem, im so
bad at selecting in person.

I agree with you, I would probably get a better deal on the
internet, but would be too scared that I didn't get what
I paid for.

I am going to find and look still for a good jeweler that
can show me good cut diamonds, and of course keep reading
here because it has helped a lot.
I might even purchase that ideal scope.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

That link is to find your own diamond on-line and have a local jeweler call it in for you.
Give it a try

 

[Carolynw]

So, it didn't list the jeweler, just the diamonds.
So, your saying go to a jeweler around here
and then tell them to call these particular diamonds
in, rather than waiting to see what they have to offer
me?

Will they do this?

 

[reena]

carolyn, i understand your apprehension about buying online, but it doesn't sound to me to be a wise idea to blindly put all of your trust in that jeweler to find you an ideal cut stone. if you want to buy through him, you should at least spend some time reading up on this site, taking the tutorial, etc. so that you know enough to discern a well-cut stone from a stone that is not. as mara said, it's your responsibility to educate yourself enough that you know what you're getting. if you just repeat your request for an ideal cut to this jeweler (who scoffed at the notion that there was such a thing), who knows what you're going to get the second time around?

also, if you took some time to read up on this site about the various internet (or, alternately, trusted local) vendors that people here have had very positive experiences with, i think you might change your mind about sticking with your current jeweler.

 

[Carolynw]

Your right, I have to be smarter about this.
I read and read, but then when I go try and buy one
i trust the jeweler too much. I am probably not going
to go to that jeweler, because of the fact that he sold
me a diamond that was not ideal, and I had told him I wanted an ideal cut.
There were a couple other jewelers I went to that were more willing to show me a good cut from a bad cut. I think my problem is lumping the picking out a setting in with buying a diamond. I need to separate the two, and first pick out the diamond. When i asked this jeweler if i should pick the setting or diamond first, he didn't even advise me. It was like he was just sitting there and not adding any input to the cut, or anything.
So, I am not going to go to him, and if it takes forever, Ill buy a good diamond, it's got to be out there. This website as well as the comments have helped me a lot.

 

[solange]

I know I have repeated this several times on different threads but I wanted to cite my experience with local jewelers as opposed to buying on-line.

I spent several weeks looking for a stone in the Diamond District in NYC.(I did not know of any of the Pricescope vendors in the Diamond District at the time). My experiences were not very favorable and some were pushing me to make an immediate decision or the stone would be gone. Finally one of the very well known dealers called and told me he had found the perfect stone for me. He said it was Ideal cut.

Fortunately I had found Pricescope and posted the table and depth. Several people responded and all said the table was far too large and the depth too shallow. It was far from an Ideal cut but the stone looked great to me. I really did not know what to look for.

I then contacted a few of the on-line dealers at Pricescope. I wound up with a gorgeous ring from Whiteflash. My husband was reluctant to spend so much money from an out of state vendor. However, Whiteflash does not drop ship. Brian, the cutter, sees every stone before it goes out. He spoke to me at length about the stone. They then sent it out to an independent appraiser in NYC where I live and I was able to see the stone and have it appraised. It is not in the interest of the vendor to overstate the appearance of the stone and then get it back because it does not appraise well. I would trust a highly regarded Pricescope vendor to inspect and describe a stone accurately.

I then sent it back to Whiteflash for setting. They have an excellent selection and also do custom made settings. Mine was custom. I did not pay Whiteflash anything for my ring until the day before it was ready to be shipped out by overnight FED-Ex. There are several other highly reliable vendors on Pricescope who will accommodate you in this way. All the Pricescope vendors have reputations to protect and it is in their best interests to keep customers happy. They also have a return policy. I would not hesitate to buy on-line again.

 

[Patty]

Carolyn, I see that you are in CT. It would be well worth your while to take a trip into NYC and/or Long Island to check out Good Old Gold and SuperbCert. Both of them have great reputations and they sell on the internet but they also will take the time to show you their stones and educate you on what makes a great cut. GOG is a regular bricks and mortar store located on Long Island and SuperbCert is in the city and recently opened up showrooms where Barry will meet you by appointment. Check out their web pages and see what they have available in your price range.




People tell you not to buy off the internet because of the "unknown" factor. But when you are dealing with reputable jewelers online who have a long history of selling diamonds, you do not need to worry. As one person said here, they do their business in a fishbowl and believe me, if a customer is unhappy, they will post about it.




I know that you don't plan to use this same jeweler, but as for him laughing and asking just what is an ideal cut, tell him that you wanted a stone that meets the AGS standards of ideal.

 

[yowahking]

Something to keep in mind. Ideal cut is a broad term. What was the original Ideal cut from Lazzare Kaplan is still a nice diamond, but looks different from what is now the AGS triple 0 cut that most are using for the Ideal standard. You can line up 5 AGS 000 cuts of all the same size and grade and one will look better than the rest. It is also possible that a stone that falls just out of Ideal can look better than stones that grade out as Ideal. Which is why AGS and GIA are adapting what they have viewed as a narrow standard. Tools like Gary's help understand about light leakage but are not the end all of how it looks.
I sold a stone yesterday to a customer who drove 2 hours to come see Ideal cuts. I have an EGL Tolkowsky Ideal, an EGL Excellent Ideal, an AGS 000, a name brand H&A, a GIA stone with great specs, and an EGL stone that was listed as a Premium cut but fantastic looking. After all combinations about price and look, he was down to the EGL that looked better to the eye than on paper and the branded H&A. Both stones looked the best to him but there was a huge difference in price. He took the cheaper one because it looked as good to him in all lights and saved $4000. He had the money for the other but did not look $4000 better to him. Both stones looked better than the other 3 "Ideals" and then brought in his wife. She looked at all stones and selected the same two that he did. Trust your eye, and use price lists and tools only to help know how well you did and did not get ripped off.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Carolyn if you select a diamond (any diamond for the exercise) you will be taken to a new screen with a list of local jewellers who can call in the stone.
Just 1 more click

I am not telling you to buy online - I respect your right to deal with a face to face person

 

[Carolynw]

These are great tips, I will definitely do as you suggested.
I wish I would have looked here first before going to that
jeweler yesterday. Now, I have to tell him i canceled the
8000.00 check i wrote tommorrow and I know he isn't going
to be too happy. They indicate 30 day return policy and refund
policy, so I don't think what I say will be not allowed.
I am really going to follow the guidelines here and not
take any money out of my pocket without first using
the IDEAL Scope, which I plan on purchasing and making
sure the diamond is considered an ideal cut.
Thanks again everyone. I really appreciate it, this is definitely
work finding a good diamond and not getting ripped off. It is a lot
of money, that took me a long time to save, and if I blow it
I will never forgive myself.

 

[Mara]

Carolyn I think you are doing the right thing....spend your money wisely and do not settle for anything less than what you truly desire. You deserve it! Best of luck.

 

[Carolynw]

Hi,

I just went and looked at this stone on WF. How do i look at it before purchasing, I mean how do i have it sent to a local appraiser?
This stone does look 100% better, plus it is an ideal cut, and cheaper then the one i was almost going to buy yesterday.
Thanks again.

I also saw a 1.59 E VS2 on WF for around $14900 Pscope pricing that was AGS0 with arrows and an exceptional IdealScope image...I would definitely check that out too. You can have it sent to a local appraiser to see in person before purchase as well. It's bigger and better cut for $1k less. http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=GIA-13148717 . The diameter on it is 7.6! A far cry from your original stone's 7.40!

 

[alexah]

----------------
On 10/17/2004 7:54:35 AM alexah wrote:

----------------Maybe it would have been more from that store but not necessarily on the internet... for ex, there's this beautiful (1.5 HCA) WF 1.59ct E VS2 which is $15280 before the PS discount (and it's got a luvly idealscope shot)...

----------------

...guess *great* minds think alike

the first think you'd need to do, Carolyn, is to call WF first thing Monday & tell them you're interested in the stone & make sure it's still avail... tell them you'd like the purchase to be contingent on the appraisal. they've done this many many times & will let you know their procedure. you'll have to give some thought as to which appraiser you'll want the stone sent to....

 

[Carolynw]

I was looking on the website at Good Old Gold, as Patty suggested.
They have a nice selection of diamonds that have all the proportional
measurements that equal a ideal cut diamond.. Im thinking of calling
them today and going over there to look at them, or see
when they have time. Has anyone purchased their diamonds from there,
or is the SuperbCert better?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

You will find Jonathn from GOG quite an entertainer.
Call first and make sure he is in