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Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Article

basil

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Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

When I read the article, mostly I thought how selfish to write that sort of article. No doubt the kids will one day read that, or the kids friends. I can't imagine what a flock of 13 year old girls would think of that...

I don't have a kid yet so I can't say what I'd do in the water buffalo scenario. I do know that DH would choose to save me over my unborn child (I'm 15 weeks pregnant). And maybe it makes me a bad mother, but I'd choose to save myself as well. I really like my life, and I can have another kid. Or adopt or be happy being childless. But I don't know how that will change once the kid is actually born. Or maybe I'll even feel differently further along in my pregnancy.

However, I'm pretty sure DH would throw himself in front of the water buffalo to save me, and vice versa.
 

iugurl

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Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

I do not have children, therefore I am not going to comment on whether you should love your spouse or children more. But, I think it is wrong for people to think someone is selfish for loving either more. If I were to love my husband more than my children, I would never tell anyone (esp not the kids), but if I were to confide in friends, how dare they think I am selfish or a bad mother? Or vice versa.

*Lindsey*|1296780945|2842359 said:
Definitely an interesting article. This seems to be a hot topic lately, and the correct answer is supposed to be "my husband comes first" lest you appear to be a frigid child-indulging martyr.
I really disagree. Maybe it is my location/group, but I think an overwhelming amount of people would think that you should love your kids more or you are a bad mother. I am NOT agreeing with that statement, but rather DISagreeing that the majority of people think you should love your husband more or you are a child indulging martyr...

I will comment on how I see certain friends treat their kids and spouses. It makes me so mad when a wife drops her husband (I am sure it could be reversed, but I have never personally seen it) the second she has kids. I have seen many friends do this, I am not saying that all or most women do this, but I have seen it. The child arrives and 100% of her time, focus, and energy go to the child. Date night? Forget about it. I can understand when the baby is really young, but I think it is not fair to your husband to not ever spend time with him alone if that is what he wishes. I have seen friends refuse to have sex for a whole year or two, until they want another child! I am not sure why they think they have the right to refuse sex over and over, but the second baby fever kicks in, they expect the husband to have sex multiple times a day on their fertile days. It does not matter if their husband is tired or feels bad (the same excuses that they gave when they didn't want to have it) he will do it or else! Once they are pregnant they stopped again. :(( You willingly married your husband, if you did not want to spend time with him, why did you get married? You can have children without a husband. They will come to a rude awakening once their kids move out and they realize they don't even know their husband. They haven't talked to him about anything but the kids/house/work in 18+ years :((

I have known 3 women who have multiple children and later divorced their husband. I am not implying that all divorces are caused by this, just that it can happen. They admit that they think it is their fault. They admit that they showed no attention or affection to their husband since kids. They went to work, came home at spent ALL the time with the kids until bed. On the weekends, they woke up did things with the kids, until bed. And they regret it! They wish that they could have at least spent one night a month with their husband. All 3 feel as though had they given 10% of their time with husband, they would still be married.

I am sure this situation could be reversed and have woman or men ignore their kids for their spouse. Again, I have not seen this scenario, so I will not comment. I think sometimes moms or dads need to remember that their kids will move out someday and you will be alone with your husband or wife, so make sure you still have a relationship!

This is NOT about most women. This is just from personal experience with a small portion of friends. I am not implying that this is what all, most, or any percentage of mothers do. I hope this is not offensive.
 

fieryred33143

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Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

qtiekiki|1296859959|2843345 said:
Trekkie|1296846133|2843078 said:
Yes. Just like one makes a conscious choice to make time for sex.

Do you view a man using the services of a prostitute as cheating?

If anything, I think it's masturbation with a human aid. :naughty:

Well, I consider any times that a man is involved with another human being physically (includes going on dates, kissing, etc) as cheating, without the consent of his spouse. The line of emotional/mental involvement is not as clear cut. I can only assume that you were joking with last line. But if you are not, then you are much more acceptance than I am.

Uh, yeah, this.

What a bizarre thing to say.
 

fountainfairfax

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Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

I remember reading that article when it was first published and it really surprised me because I grew up in a family where my parents were a united front but there was no doubt in my mind that they loved us more than they loved each other. They had a marriage that existed because they both wanted a family and to be parents. In fact, my mom decided she wanted to marry my dad when she was a nursing student working on the Maternity Ward- the students would play a game where they would be at the desk that faced the elevator. When the doors opened and a man was standing there, they would first try to guess which woman was his wife (this was at a time when the men weren't in the delivery room and sometimes weren't even at the hospital when the baby was born!)

The game then evolved into "if you were in the maternity ward yourself, who would you want to be in the elevator for you?" And Mom said my father's name and then called him that night to say yes to his on-going and much repeated proposal. They had known each other almost their entire lives and while I don't doubt that they love each other very much, they both always said kids & family come first.

I don't have children, but went through a divorce when I was in my late 20s and experienced the fact that sometimes people fall out of romantic, passionate love. Or sometimes one person continues to feel that romantic love & the other decides they don't. I can't imagine that parents ever really love their children less or have a change of heart, no matter what happens.

As far as sex goes, I do know a lot of people with very happy, satisfying marriages with lots of physical attention but very little actual sex. And I know people who have a lot of sex in marriages where they no longer really love, or even like, the person they're married to.

My sister's husband died suddenly last year. They were a couple for 18 yrs and married for 12. He was her closest friend, lover, provider. To say that she is crushed is an understatement- she feels that most of her life is gone. But they have a daughter and she has said that the only thing that could EVER be worse than her DH dying would have been the loss of their daughter. As hard as it is now, she does have a life and the will to live. If her daughter had died instead she said that she would see no point in living. And I totally get that.
 

Dreamer_D

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Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

Laila619|1296849237|2843143 said:
qtiekiki|1296838032|2842923 said:
I, too, was annoyed with the association of sex frequencies with being in love.

I think what she means is that most of those women don't even *want* to have sex with their DHs anymore after the baby comes along, whereas she still does.

I read it quite differently. Yes she makes the point you do, but in describing her love for her husband she focuses a lot on the physical side of it. The implication is that for her, passion and sexual desire = love.
 

Dreamer_D

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Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

part gypsy|1296851967|2843189 said:
Also, did anyone get the feeling from the article this woman was bragging about how she has a great sex life (to the extent she can't talk about it with her "girlfriends" and how much she and her husband love each other, more than those pesky irrelevant sattelites of children? Seriously sister, alot of women out there have good sex lives with their husband, even after having children. they just don't feel the need to write an article about it.
I think their narcissism suits each other very well.

Yes, it felt like that to me a little too.
 

Dreamer_D

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Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

iugurl|1296932700|2844086 said:
I have known 3 women who have multiple children and later divorced their husband. I am not implying that all divorces are caused by this, just that it can happen. They admit that they think it is their fault. They admit that they showed no attention or affection to their husband since kids. They went to work, came home at spent ALL the time with the kids until bed. On the weekends, they woke up did things with the kids, until bed. And they regret it! They wish that they could have at least spent one night a month with their husband. All 3 feel as though had they given 10% of their time with husband, they would still be married.

Maybe they spent all their time with the kids because their husband did not carry his weight? ;)) My comment is more general, not about your specific friends, who may be correct about the reasons for the dmise of their marriage.

But I think the man is equally to blame if a couple are not having sex as much as he would like. If a woman's needs are met in the relationship, she will want to have sex with her husband. Research suggests that happiness in marriage declines sharply aften kids are born. The culprit? Most of the time, it is unfulfilled promises and expectations regarding how much parenting men are actually going to do. Resentments build. I would not want to have sex with a man who did not pull his weight in our family, especially if he promised to do so before the kiddos came along, and I think many other women don't want to either.
 

iugurl

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Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

Dreamer_D|1296950701|2844379 said:
Maybe they spent all their time with the kids because their husband did not carry his weight? ;)) My comment is more general, not about your specific friends, who may be correct about the reasons for the dmise of their marriage.

But I think the man is equally to blame if a couple are not having sex as much as he would like. If a woman's needs are met in the relationship, she will want to have sex with her husband. Research suggests that happiness in marriage declines sharply aften kids are born. The culprit? Most of the time, it is unfulfilled promises and expectations regarding how much parenting men are actually going to do. Resentments build. I would not want to have sex with a man who did not pull his weight in our family, especially if he promised to do so before the kiddos came along, and I think many other women don't want to either.

Perhaps. I know for sure that 1 of the ladies think her exhusband is the best father in the world. She knows that everything he does is and was for the kids. He always helped clean the house after he got off work (she did not work). He often cooked the dinners, changed diapers, went grocery shopping etc. I am basing this on what she has said... I think if he did not "pull his weight" she would simply say so, instead of singing his praise??

I was not really referring to sex, but rather just general attention or affection. I don't think ignoring a husband is going to encourage him to "pull is weight." How is he supposed to know what is wrong if you do not communicate? I think if a husband were to simply ignore his wife he would be very wrong. I don't care WHY. It is. If you cannot communicate your frustration with his or her unfulfilled promises then you cannot blame him or her.
 

packrat

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Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

I don't have an answer. Questions like the buffalo thing (It was always put to me as a boat situation-you and your husband and baby/child are in a boat, boat goes down, husband is unconscious/can't swim, who do you save..) there are a thousand questions like that and I saw an episode of Oprah where she asked that and the audience got crazy at the women who replied, no matter how they replied. I hope to never be in a situation like that and if I were, I would make a decision unconsciously and act on it out of pure instinct. I'd not be weighing my options this on v that one, I would guess it's going to have to be a split second decision if it's a life or death matter and your body will just react. And I would hope other people wouldn't sit in judgement of someone being forced to make a decision like that.

I would be devastated to lose my kids. I would be devastated to lose my husband. If I lost my husband, I would still have my kids and they would give me reason to keep going. I would never in a million years say if I lost my kids I would have to reason to keep living or to *go on*-I would still have a husband and the day we got married we committed ourselves to becoming as ONE. We would work thru it *together* because that's what we do. We're a united front, a team. I see it as selfish to say "Oh sorry honey my life is over totally and completely now that the kids are gone and you mean nothing to me anymore." He'd be hurting too, I'm quite sure, over the loss of his kids. A different kind of hurt possibly, seeing as how he didn't carry them and birth them.

My grandparents did lose a son. My dad had a second brother we knew nothing about until we were..high school maybe? When they were little, grampa used to take them on the tractor and gramma didn't like it. Grampa poo poo-ed her fears apparently and took Dad's brother with him when he was out in the fields. Grampa was backing up the tractor and was turned around to watch where he was going and his son was on the other side. He fell off and grampa didn't see him. I think he was 4. That was the end of their marriage, even tho they stayed together. Rather than comfort each other, Grampa blamed himself, Gramma blamed Grampa, and a whooooole lot of resentment built up that lasted until Grampa died 6 years ago. There was no reaching out to each other when they *both* needed it.
 

LaurenThePartier

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Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

I don't have an answer, either, but it's mostly because I don't yet have children. As it stands now, I will likely hope to have a similar view in expressing my physical love to my husband once we do have children. It varies from couple to couple, but for us, sex and intimacy is an important expression, and I hope to always retain that desire for my husband. I believe that the love I will feel for my children will be different (and therefore, unquantifiable) from the love I now feel, and will feel in the future for my husband, but I have pledged to love and honor my husband for the rest of my life (the next 40-60 years) and I am committed to making my husband as happy as he makes me for the rest of his life. Hypotheticals are just that; yes, I can picture myself being devastated if I were to lose a child or my husband, but I do think that ultimately, I would have no idea just how devastating until I was placed in either situation.

I do know that my parents are a fantastic example of this. In my 18 years living with my family, my parents only took 5 or so vacations without my sister and me. I never felt neglected or unloved; in fact I know that they love us tremendously, and are happy that we have both found loving and healthy relationships, but I sense that they knew their constant time and love were shorter term requirements as we were only under their constant care for 18-20 years; they have pledge to be together forever, and I know my parents are still deeply in love 36 years later.

As for the lack of sex breeding unhappiness for men, I'm trying to be as delicate as possible here, but I think some of you would really benefit from spending more time on male-dominated forums where sex after children is frequently discussed. Of course a man is going to placate and reassure his wife who clearly doesn't express her desire for him as she once did because she is concentrating on her child's well-being, but on a male-driven forum somewhere, he is complaining about the lack of intimacy and warning other unmarried men to "not do it". Of course there are clearly exceptions to this sentiment, but I fear that the importance of sex as a method of a woman communicating her love from a man's perspective is being diminished simply because we can't easily separate ourselves from our own relationships.
 

Haven

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Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

I just KNEW this was going to be about the Ayelet Waldman article when I saw the title of this thread!

If anyone's interested in reading more from her, she used to have a blog titled "Bad Mother" at this url:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/magazine/29preschool-t.html?scp=1&sq=childhood depression&st=cse

There's a link to her new fancy shmancy website on the blog.

She's married to Michael Chabon, author of The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay, among others. Have you read his work? If so, can you really blame her for loving him so much? :Up_to_something: (I'm just KIDDING! But he is a truly amazing writer.)

I don't have children, but I've really enjoyed reading this discussion. And I couldn't pass up the opportunity to plug Chabon's writing. Sorry! He's just so GOOD.
 

Laila619

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Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

LaurenThePartier|1297022478|2844960 said:
As for the lack of sex breeding unhappiness for men, I'm trying to be as delicate as possible here, but I think some of you would really benefit from spending more time on male-dominated forums where sex after children is frequently discussed. Of course a man is going to placate and reassure his wife who clearly doesn't express her desire for him as she once did because she is concentrating on her child's well-being, but on a male-driven forum somewhere, he is complaining about the lack of intimacy and warning other unmarried men to "not do it". Of course there are clearly exceptions to this sentiment, but I fear that the importance of sex as a method of a woman communicating her love from a man's perspective is being diminished simply because we can't easily separate ourselves from our own relationships.

I kind of have to agree here with your Lauren. I think most men do have high drives, but if they keep being told no by their wives after kids come along, they will stop asking as much--who wants to always get shot down, ya know? That's not to say all women and men are like this of course, but in general...
 

rosetta

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Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

hey this chabon guy is not half bad looking! not my type though.

i hope SO chooses to save our children over me (we don't even have any yet and may never do) and i do the same.

we are responsible for their lives and it would be the only right thing to do. i hope we would be selfless enough to give each other up.

but by god, i would miss him every second of my life.

it's not that i object to her loving her husband more.

it's that she is essentially too selfish to sacrifice her own desires to save her children's lives.

:blackeye:
 

fieryred33143

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Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

For a long time I struggled with understanding how a marriage can be put first. Not the why, I get the why. But how? When the baby is so small and needs so much attention, how in the world do you ignore their needs to first satisfy the needs of your spouse?

Then I realized that it's all in how you choose to interpret the idea of putting your marriage first. I don't take it literally. I think it's just having a united front and making time for one another. Don't have to give up your complete adoration for your child or feel guilty for feeling that way, but you do have to make time for one another.

I look back at some of my behaviors as I was trying to grasp this concept. My daughter is a very picky eater. Her food cannot touch each other. She has to eat as much of one thing before she can move on to the next (forget giving her a spoonful of chicken AND rice, oh the drama!). We are at a point that while we don't want to create bad eating habits, we do whatever we can do to get some food in her. She eats the most when she is in the living room and is allowed to play with her toys in between her bites of food. This meant that after my FI would put together a delicious meal as an appreciating for everything else that I do in the home, he would sit alone in the dining room eating while I sat in the living room with our daughter eating. That to me was an example of putting my child's needs (or rather, habits) in front of his needs. I did a typical mom thing. It works in the living room so off to the living room I went without thinking that maybe he would like to sit down next to his "wife" to enjoy a meal together and have a conversation. We have since stopped that.

As for the sex thing, the article makes it seem like moms should be 100% available to their husbands. I don't agree with it because sometimes I just can't. Life is exhausting. But I also understand that I cannot completely shut myself off. Physical connection is almost as important as emotional connection.

Oh, and as for choosing a child's life over a spouse: when I was pregnant we saw an episode of some medical drama. In that episode, the father either chose or had to choose to save the child's life over the mothers (can't remember exactly). I asked him what he would do in that position and he said without even thinking that he would choose to save my life. There was no changing his mind or making him feel guilty of the answer. That's what he would have done. Now that she is here, we both agree that we are to save her life before each other because that's what responsible adults would do. If there is a fire right now, which we talk about often, I am to jump out the window while he runs to get out daughter. It's just common sense. I have more of a chance of saving myself than our daughter does and that holds true for any twisted scenario we could think of.
 

Dreamer_D

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Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

Laila619|1297026913|2845032 said:
LaurenThePartier|1297022478|2844960 said:
As for the lack of sex breeding unhappiness for men, I'm trying to be as delicate as possible here, but I think some of you would really benefit from spending more time on male-dominated forums where sex after children is frequently discussed. Of course a man is going to placate and reassure his wife who clearly doesn't express her desire for him as she once did because she is concentrating on her child's well-being, but on a male-driven forum somewhere, he is complaining about the lack of intimacy and warning other unmarried men to "not do it". Of course there are clearly exceptions to this sentiment, but I fear that the importance of sex as a method of a woman communicating her love from a man's perspective is being diminished simply because we can't easily separate ourselves from our own relationships.

I kind of have to agree here with your Lauren. I think most men do have high drives, but if they keep being told no by their wives after kids come along, they will stop asking as much--who wants to always get shot down, ya know? That's not to say all women and men are like this of course, but in general...

Oh I know that for many men sex = love, they have have high drives. I am married to a man who would like sex every day if he can get it.. No doubt many men are the same. I just think that for many men who are puzzled about why they are not getting any once kids arrive.... well they are not taking enough responsibility for the situation in my humble opinion. It takes two to tango... or not as the case may be.

I just think that passion and wild crazy sex is not the be all end all representation of the quality of relationship a couple shares, as implied by the author's article. Poor quality relationships do not breed crazy sex lives. But the oppositive is not true -- that wild and crazy sex creates a happy relationship (even for sex crazed men).

I am guessing that Ayelet and her husband have wild sex and passion because they share a deep emotional connection, and dare I add, he is probably a good father and supporter of his wife's personal growth and fulfillment to boot.
 

qtiekiki

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Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

Laila619|1297026913|2845032 said:
LaurenThePartier|1297022478|2844960 said:
As for the lack of sex breeding unhappiness for men, I'm trying to be as delicate as possible here, but I think some of you would really benefit from spending more time on male-dominated forums where sex after children is frequently discussed. Of course a man is going to placate and reassure his wife who clearly doesn't express her desire for him as she once did because she is concentrating on her child's well-being, but on a male-driven forum somewhere, he is complaining about the lack of intimacy and warning other unmarried men to "not do it". Of course there are clearly exceptions to this sentiment, but I fear that the importance of sex as a method of a woman communicating her love from a man's perspective is being diminished simply because we can't easily separate ourselves from our own relationships.

I kind of have to agree here with your Lauren. I think most men do have high drives, but if they keep being told no by their wives after kids come along, they will stop asking as much--who wants to always get shot down, ya know? That's not to say all women and men are like this of course, but in general...

I agree with this, and was not trying to belittle the importance of sex/intimacy. Although, I think if a man is unhappy with the lack of sex and is not feeling love, then he needs to communicate it. It does not help the situation if he just stops asking or gets it elsewhere, be it a prostitute or an affair.

We went through this and still get into this situation every now and then. There was no issues when we had one kid, but it became an issue after we have our second. I noticed that DH was a little unresponsive to my talking, like he was upset. He never said anything, so I thought it's just a bad day. When it continued, I asked him what's going on. Initially, he said nothing. Eventually, he thought me that he felt ignored, that I don't give him any attentions/affections. We talked over the situation, and it was very much what's Dreamer said about the DH not pulling his weights. DH is great at dinner, but the baths and bedtimes are all me (not entirely his fault, as DD wouldn't let him put her to sleep). A lot times I would fall asleep putting DD to bed. We agreed that he needs to be understanding and I need to put more attention to his needs. We still go through good and bad days, but overall it's good.

And DH would jokingly say to his newly engaged friends and cousins to not have kids too soon because that's the end of it. But when you ask him if he wants to go back and not have kids, he would say no. I bet some of the guys on those male-dominate forums wouldn't change a thing in their world, but it's just a guy thing to say.
 

Skippy123

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Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

phoenixgirl|1296852604|2843198 said:
I read this as another one of those "I'm trying to make a living as a part time writer, so I made up some crap to write about" articles.

Ditto Phoenixgirl on the above. I read a lot of the posts and then read the article; I think the discussion in the thread is much more interesting than the article itself. The author sounds full of herself. I am still preggo so I can't say what I would do but it is interesting to think about how I might feel after having kids versus now.
 

Mara

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Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

My response is pretty much along the same lines as Linds... my responsibility now is to my child first, my 'family' including my husband as second or as first if it can be encompassed into one. My child cannot care for himself or make decisions on his own yet. As a parent, you take on a responsibility to that child to consider them above all others...at least for a period of time.

And as others have already said, that article is about equating sex with love, or so it READS--not sure if that was the intent.
 

february2003bride

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Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

Haven|1297025537|2845000 said:
I just KNEW this was going to be about the Ayelet Waldman article when I saw the title of this thread!

If anyone's interested in reading more from her, she used to have a blog titled "Bad Mother" at this url:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/magazine/29preschool-t.html?scp=1&sq=childhood depression&st=cse

There's a link to her new fancy shmancy website on the blog.

She's married to Michael Chabon, author of The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay, among others. Have you read his work? If so, can you really blame her for loving him so much? :Up_to_something: (I'm just KIDDING! But he is a truly amazing writer.)

I don't have children, but I've really enjoyed reading this discussion. And I couldn't pass up the opportunity to plug Chabon's writing. Sorry! He's just so GOOD.


She was on Oprah when her article first came out. Oprah may as well have put her in front of a real firing squad. The women in the audience were brutal.

To answer the question, my children come first. The love for my children and husband are different but equal. However I chose to bring my children into this world, it is my job to protect them. I cannot imagine a life without my husband, even when I feel like strangling him :devil: . But I know he feels the same way- if I chose him over my children in a life or death situation, he would never forgive me. And I feel the same.
 

february2003bride

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Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

Dreamer_D|1297035025|2845156 said:
Laila619|1297026913|2845032 said:
LaurenThePartier|1297022478|2844960 said:
As for the lack of sex breeding unhappiness for men, I'm trying to be as delicate as possible here, but I think some of you would really benefit from spending more time on male-dominated forums where sex after children is frequently discussed. Of course a man is going to placate and reassure his wife who clearly doesn't express her desire for him as she once did because she is concentrating on her child's well-being, but on a male-driven forum somewhere, he is complaining about the lack of intimacy and warning other unmarried men to "not do it". Of course there are clearly exceptions to this sentiment, but I fear that the importance of sex as a method of a woman communicating her love from a man's perspective is being diminished simply because we can't easily separate ourselves from our own relationships.

I kind of have to agree here with your Lauren. I think most men do have high drives, but if they keep being told no by their wives after kids come along, they will stop asking as much--who wants to always get shot down, ya know? That's not to say all women and men are like this of course, but in general...

Oh I know that for many men sex = love, they have have high drives. I am married to a man who would like sex every day if he can get it.. No doubt many men are the same. I just think that for many men who are puzzled about why they are not getting any once kids arrive.... well they are not taking enough responsibility for the situation in my humble opinion. It takes two to tango... or not as the case may be.

I just think that passion and wild crazy sex is not the be all end all representation of the quality of relationship a couple shares, as implied by the author's article. Poor quality relationships do not breed crazy sex lives. But the oppositive is not true -- that wild and crazy sex creates a happy relationship (even for sex crazed men).

I am guessing that Ayelet and her husband have wild sex and passion because they share a deep emotional connection, and dare I add, he is probably a good father and supporter of his wife's personal growth and fulfillment to boot.


To the bolded part- possibly. However when this first came out in 2005, Ayelet herself said multiple times (in defending her article) that young 20 year old women were always throwing themselves at her husband and she needed to keep the spark alive so he wouldn't stray. The interviews I've seen of her, including her Oprah episode, is more of an insecure woman "marking" her DH publically.
 

diva rose

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Messages
451
Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

Dreamer_D|1297035025|2845156 said:
Laila619|1297026913|2845032 said:
LaurenThePartier|1297022478|2844960 said:
As for the lack of sex breeding unhappiness for men, I'm trying to be as delicate as possible here, but I think some of you would really benefit from spending more time on male-dominated forums where sex after children is frequently discussed. Of course a man is going to placate and reassure his wife who clearly doesn't express her desire for him as she once did because she is concentrating on her child's well-being, but on a male-driven forum somewhere, he is complaining about the lack of intimacy and warning other unmarried men to "not do it". Of course there are clearly exceptions to this sentiment, but I fear that the importance of sex as a method of a woman communicating her love from a man's perspective is being diminished simply because we can't easily separate ourselves from our own relationships.

I kind of have to agree here with your Lauren. I think most men do have high drives, but if they keep being told no by their wives after kids come along, they will stop asking as much--who wants to always get shot down, ya know? That's not to say all women and men are like this of course, but in general...

Oh I know that for many men sex = love, they have have high drives. I am married to a man who would like sex every day if he can get it.. No doubt many men are the same. I just think that for many men who are puzzled about why they are not getting any once kids arrive.... well they are not taking enough responsibility for the situation in my humble opinion. It takes two to tango... or not as the case may be.

I just think that passion and wild crazy sex is not the be all end all representation of the quality of relationship a couple shares, as implied by the author's article. Poor quality relationships do not breed crazy sex lives. But the oppositive is not true -- that wild and crazy sex creates a happy relationship (even for sex crazed men).

I am guessing that Ayelet and her husband have wild sex and passion because they share a deep emotional connection, and dare I add, he is probably a good father and supporter of his wife's personal growth and fulfillment to boot.

Totally agree with Dreamer here.

If men help around the house and kids - I'm sure they will be getting more action from their wives.
Women are often too tired after caring for the house and kids to have the time to think about sex.
Someone should seriously write a guide for men on 'how to be a good husband and get sex from your wife'.
 

janinegirly

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
3,689
Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

I agree with DD's points and also like fountainfairfax's post.

I very much get annoyed with authors or "studies" which condescendingly preach how things should be and in turn make women feel even more guilty than they already do. Not everything is black and white, not all men have higher drives and decline in sex after kids does not always mean NO sex or that this is forever. It is simply not realistic for women to be all things to all people and they shouldn't have to choose. The fact is many women these days are working high profile jobs, and being great moms/wives, cooking, cleaning, being there or the in laws,etc. It is not realistic to also be a sex god to acquiese the male ego (which by the way is not always what men need either - I"m just talking sterotypes here). Marriage, especially after kidS, is a partnership built on a foundation of love and there are ebbs and flows in several aspects including frequency of intimacy. A strong and mature marriage will survive that and a husband who truly loves his wife will know how he can help to allow for more free time for the 2 of them (if that is the issue). And he will also know this (infant - toddler stage or whatever is creating the challenge at the moment) is NOT forever.
 

iugurl

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Messages
476
Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

diva rose|1297234794|2847429 said:
If men help around the house and kids - I'm sure they will be getting more action from their wives.
Women are often too tired after caring for the house and kids to have the time to think about sex.
Someone should seriously write a guide for men on 'how to be a good husband and get sex from your wife'.

I don't think that if the housework is completely split 50/50, that the husband will "get more action." Sure, in some cases but not all. I don't even think the majority of cases that the husband feels deprived of sex will be resolved by doing more housework.

The underlined portion :confused: ... Well I am saddened by this. I am sure there are bad husbands and wives out there. I know there are. But just to assume that those who are denied sex are bad husbands/fathers. Nope. Not true. I feel like you are implying that most husbands and fathers are clueless on how to be "good" and they clearly need help. Of course the men are at fault. Mothers are automatically "good" and don't need a guide. You may not have meant it that way, but it is how I read into it. It sounds too much like.. here doggy, sit and jump and if you are "good" you will get a treat.
 

Laila619

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
11,676
Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

iugurl|1297268244|2847623 said:
diva rose|1297234794|2847429 said:
If men help around the house and kids - I'm sure they will be getting more action from their wives.
Women are often too tired after caring for the house and kids to have the time to think about sex.
Someone should seriously write a guide for men on 'how to be a good husband and get sex from your wife'.

I don't think that if the housework is completely split 50/50, that the husband will "get more action." Sure, in some cases but not all. I don't even think the majority of cases that the husband feels deprived of sex will be resolved by doing more housework.

The underlined portion :confused: ... Well I am saddened by this. I am sure there are bad husbands and wives out there. I know there are. But just to assume that those who are denied sex are bad husbands/fathers. Nope. Not true. I feel like you are implying that most husbands and fathers are clueless on how to be "good" and they clearly need help. Of course the men are at fault. Mothers are automatically "good" and don't need a guide. You may not have meant it that way, but it is how I read into it. It sounds too much like.. here doggy, sit and jump and if you are "good" you will get a treat.

I agree with you, iugirl. In addition, there are plenty of good guys who do their fair share (or even more) around the house and with the kids.

Is it okay if our husbands were to say, "I'm too tired from working, paying the bills, and raising the kids to show my wife affection and to be romantic"?
 

diva rose

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Messages
451
Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

My post was general and not specific. Perhaps I should have elaborated a bit more.

I'm not stating all men are terrible husbands and all wives are great etc.
Nor am I stating, women are the ones rejecting sex all the time. In fact, men also reject sex in a marriage.
One of the reasons men use for lack of affection towards their wives: because they are too tired from work and providing for the family etc.

There have been numerous research done looking into sex and marriage. There are a variety of factors why there is lack of sex in a relationship, it can be due to medical conditions, psychological issues etc.

In general - in a marriage were there are no medical/underlying cognitive/psychological issues - many women don't have sex because they are unhappy with their husbands. Most times it is related to them feeling their husbands aren't helping around the house, paying them attention etc. Here is a quick article:

http://www.thirdage.com/articles/why-women-stop-having-sex-1

My comments were in reference to relationships where there are no medical/psychological factors involved.
It is also a fact - 'household chores/duties' issue is one of the major factors in marriage satisfaction/cause for disputes.

In addition, being a good husband doesn't mean you are a good father. These are two totally different things.
A good father can be a terrible husband. Vice versa.
 

JulieN

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13,375
Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

My dad's friends have been together since she was a senior in HS. Dated all through college, got married, lived in the suburbs, and had kids. She divorced him because she felt he loved the kids more than he loved her. But I think what she really meant was that he just liked to be home with the kids and wasn't caveman enough...

As to the authoress, I think she just has a high drive.
 

chemgirl

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Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

Although I found the article to be really condescending and irritating, I don't entirely disagree with it. Growing up, it was very clear that my parents loved each other more than they loved us. Maybe that's the wrong way of saying it, they loved us a lot and they loved each other in a different way. However, it was clear that they were each other's first priority. I remember a car trip where a bag of cement fell off of a truck and the car in front of us hit it. We couldn't see a thing and we were on a highway. Once we cleared the dust cloud we had the whole "if we were in an accident who would we save" talk. My mom was really upset, said she probably couldn't lift my dad, so she would save us. My dad said he'd save my mom and then come back for us. He said she was the most important person to him and his top priority (although we were really important too!). I always thought that was normal (until now).
 

NovemberBride

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Messages
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Re: Loving your DH more than your children: Interesting Arti

I love my DD and my DH differently, but I wouldn't say I love one more than the other. If pressed to choose, I would probably say parents should love their children more than each other. In the water buffalo situation, I would without a doubt save DD and I believe DH would as well. Although we are not planning to and I hope we do not divorce, in my mind I can imagine a scenario where we do and I would be able to go on living my life. Although divorce is not death, DH would no longer be in my life in either case. I cannot imagine a scenario where DD dies and I am able to go on living. When I hear about children dying, I cannot fathom how their parents go on living their lives without completely falling apart. I chose my DH and I love him very much, but we are two separate people who had our own lives before we met. DD is a part of me and I love her with a ferocity that I have never felt for anyone else. There is nothing she could do to make me stop loving her. Yet, there are certainly things DH could do that would make me stop loving him.
 
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