D versus F Lucida

[alexah]

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On 9/19/2004 12:42:27 PM G Weldon wrote:

I have to be honest; I have to have the blue box, and unfortunately, everyone would blanch to know that I haven't looked at any stones there under $65,000..... I don't want to even tell you what the D IF stone costs but let's just say that I have to have to know that the diamond is amazing to pay the kind of money that Tif's is asking.
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I guess you can ignore my previous post... the friend i mentioned had to have a tiffany ring too - her explanation - she had a cartier in her previous marriage...

I guess the Tif name still does appeal to some.

 

[G Weldon]

I have to admit it's a strange phenomemon fueled solely by marketing. Because the prices are so high, more people want it. The more they charge, the more "exclusive" and unattainable, the higher the desire. Only in America. Anyway, I was talking candidly with my boyfriend about this - about the fact that I could choose a Lucere, Flanders, Asscher.. for way less and then it dawned on me. I don't think there are any parameters published for those shapes either! I don't want a princess cut, so I'm just screwed. I already know that the Lucida isn't the best shape, but I like it.

He has been so patient throughout this whole process; I'm not sleeping anymore agonizing about the amount of money we're spending on a stone that just isn't up to par compared to others. I think instead of searching for the perfect stone, I should get a Lucida D VVS1 or VVS2 with visually good brilliance or fire with the idea that I will eventually want a round one in 5 years or so and then, even though I will be upgrading at Tiffany's, I'll at least know the ideal %s to look for. I just didn't want to start out with the idea that I would trade up later; I didn't think that that would be a good start...

 

[valeria101]

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On 9/19/2004 12:53:27 PM G Weldon wrote:



There is no reason for them not to tell me

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Oh yes there is... if you buy from a brand name, you buy their trust - otherwise why would they be charging a third extra !!? Why would Tiffany need produce proof they are great

really.

Actually, there woudl be a way to determine what is the best optics this cut model can achieve. All you need is a good simulation. For this, you need a user of GemAdviser (or some other gem cut design software). That's not me...

I am pretty sure that the Lucida cut was indeed enginered using such software - all are these days

Hope this helps, for all the technicals involved.

Flawless diamond rough is rarely "wasted" to produce the most brilliant diamond feasible from it. Totally understand them. Too bad this is not presented upfront

 

[alexah]

Have you looked at the Jubilee cut at Good Old Gold?

The GOG site's an interesting read in general - they really know their stuff there. And, if you ever wanted to upgrade/change diamond shape in a few yrs, they do trade-ins.

They also have a new hearts & arrows cushion cut which is really sparkly & classy/classic...

Just want to make sure you examine all the possibilities instead of rushing headfirst into the hype of Tif. I'm glad you realize it's hype - and that there's better out there, and for less money...
When you're starting out & have a wedding & a life to plan together, there's no sense throwing $ away...

 

[alexah]

Also - you prob know this but - IFs are only flawless at the magnification they're graded - up the mag & you may see small flaws.
When you look at your diamond, day in, day out, without a loupe, VS1 will look identical to you...

The way i see it, diamonds are not rare & the price is tremendously artificially inflated. You're already paying too much for a little crystal - why pay for more of what you can't even see?

 

[valeria101]

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On 9/19/2004 1:14:29 PM G Weldon wrote:



Because the prices are so high, more people want it. [...] I don't think there are any parameters published for those shapes either!

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These are all diamond cut brands... and they are not telling what makes them great

But some do. there are some diamond cuts made for brilliance and sold with some test of optics done on each stone. It is sort of a technical exercise to understand what these are all about, but if you want to know why a brand is charging extra and if it worth it, than you may have one more week of reading diamond technicals ahead

To begin with - I would bet that not too many brands would dare charge what Tiffany does for their Lucida - for better or worse.

Below is a picture of the facet maps of two 'sister cuts' - Lucida and Lucere. Not very different. And I must have a Gem (Gem adviser application) file of the Lucere. No Lucida though, eve if they are so close.

Branding does work everywhere. But what value ca it add to the already precious diamonds, I really have no idea.

 

[goldengirl]

I, too, want to throw in my vote that you go see Good Old Gold...if you think the Lucida is the best alternate square brilliant available, you haven't seen the Jubilee!!

Also check out the Regent and the Queen of Hearts, both beautiful modified square brilliants with (I believe) more brilliance than the Tif Lucida and more information available so you can make that decision on your own!

Jonathan doesn't have anything in the size you're looking for in stock, but if you ask I'm sure he can get something in!

 

[G Weldon]

Another problem... the jubilee doesn't have any published "ideal cut" proportions either, right? I think once a customer has chosen a particular fancy shape, that person must settle on his or her eye for the right choice. Bummer. I just know that out of the rings I am looking at, one is the "best." It's just that no one will tell me which one that is; and I don't have that gem simulator machine to help me figure it out. I want to choose the "best" Lucida - or even Lucere for that matter, but without knowing how to determine the best cut, I'll never get be able to choose the best stone. Instead of being fun, my quest for this ring is becoming a total and utter nightmare.

 

[valeria101]

Below is a caption of what the Lucere cut looks like in a Gem Adviser simulation. You can rotate the model in different "lighting" conditions so I just took two angles at random: the image to the right shows what the cut looks like in diffuse light and the one to the left shows fire (dispersion). There's more...

The author of the GEM file is Jonathan from Good Old Gold (avatar "Rhino")

 

[valeria101]

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On 9/19/2004 1:36:15 PM G Weldon wrote:



Another problem... the jubilee doesn't have any published 'ideal cut' proportions either, right? I think once a customer has chosen a particular fancy shape, that person must settle on his or her eye for the right choice.
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Not quite. The jubilee, regent and queen of harts come with optical analysis of each diamond. Since there is a quite wide range of proportions that produce top brilliance for each cut, these tests are more precise than specifying proportions. Just like the H&A viewer is supposed to tell Harts & Arrows rounds apart while numbers cannot predict if a round brilliant is H&A or not

I think the Harts and Arrows was the first diamond brand to be sold based on a test of light return. Now there are quite a few, including quite a few types of squares.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[reena]

"Another problem... the jubilee doesn't have any published "ideal cut" proportions either, right? I think once a customer has chosen a particular fancy shape, that person must settle on his or her eye for the right choice."

wrong GW!




if you go to GOG, for ex, and look at some luceres, jubilees or QOHs, jonathan will perform a barrage of tests on these stones (for brilliance, light return, etc.) AND share every single piece of information available about the stones in order to make sure that you (1) make the most informed choice possible, (2) get the most for your money and (3) end up with a traffic-stopping stone that you ADORE. quite clearly, from the experience you describe, tiffany isn't interested in doing ANY of that for you--they want to keep you in the dark and take your money, and they don't appear to care one way or another if you like your stone once you walk out the door.




sorry, i'm not trying to sound preachy, but GIRL! an $85k budget for a ring!

my good lord, you have the chance to end up with the most sparkly, fabulous, traffic-stopping--not to mention giant--piece of ice, ever, on your finger!!! before you make a final decision on the lucida you owe it to yourself to explore all your options. (like how about a gi-normous non-designer 3+c F/VS2!!) sorry, just my .02.




also, you may want to check out another recent thread on this board where the recipient of a 1.3 c Lucida was lamenting the fact that nobody at all seemed to recognize that her ring was from tiffany, if that matters to you.

 

[G Weldon]

Thanks for the advice.. I really need to think.. it's only taken a whole year! I've been looking at stones, albeit only at Tif's, for about a year now. Where is that link about the girl lamenting?

 

[reena]

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/1-34-tiffany-lucida.18783/}

good luck with your decision. i didn't mean to sound harsh--it's just angers me that tiffany won't give you any information on the stones you're considering, and that they just expect you to trust their "word" on such an important purchase.

i hope that no matter what you decide, you end up with an e-ring that you adore.

 

[moremoremore]

I knew you wanted the blue box

While it's not what I would choose, you certainly have the right to do whatever you want with your $$$.

That said, I think that the only way for you to tell if you're getting the "best" lucida that you can is to look at tons of lightscope images for tons of them...even ones you're not interested in...but to see how the stones you are looking at compare to the scopes of others. The scope for the jubilee which shows black and red basically tells you it's got superb light return. Same for rounds. You're not going to get that with the lucida. I'm liking cushions these days, and I am aware that it won't have the black and red of the jubilee or H&A...but I still like it. I'm also a princess fan...so I understand what it is to just like a certain shape and look. But I do think the jubilee will be very close in look...but sans the blue box...

So that is your homework. Go back to the store and ask to see the scope for about ten stones. Don't expect blacks and dark reds...but at least you can see which ones do better than the others and see how yours does.

 

[moremoremore]

Ohh, I just read that you needed to 'think'...good girl

Seriously, have you looked at the GOG analysis for the jubilee? Just to see what kind of info they are giving you and what I would DEMAND from any vendor. If the blue box is what you need emotionally, that's ok. But I just wouldn't count on tons of people (outside of close friends) knowing...because a reply that "oh, it's from tiffany" to someone who asks to see a ring is very obnoxious!

 

[moremoremore]

Ohh, I just read that you needed to 'think'...good girl

Seriously, have you looked at the GOG analysis for the jubilee? Just to see what kind of info they are giving you and what I would DEMAND from any vendor. If the blue box is what you need emotionally, that's ok. But I just wouldn't count on tons of people (outside of close friends) knowing...because a reply that "oh, it's from tiffany" to someone who asks to see a ring is very obnoxious!

 

[G Weldon]

Hmm. lightscope.. at Tiffany's? I doubt they have that info, but I'll ask for it. They didn't even want to give me copies of the lab report until I was taking up their time by insisting on copying down everything by hand - then they finally forked over the sheets. I will admit, in NY the sales staff at Tif's is very snobby. In Vegas, sort of snobby, and in Chicago, it depends on who you talk to. NY is so snobby that the sales staff will not pull certain rings for you until you have some sort of committment.. a line of credit there, or something that lets them know that you are really going to purchase the ring. One salesperson told me that it costs them $300 to pull these rings and provide them to show for the customers... so he wasn't going to just pull stones for me willy nilly. What gall! Yeah dude, I'm going to pay 85gs for a ring and you're complaining about $300? It's shockingly absurd! Even though I want a Tif. diamond, I'm never going to be like that!

 

[reena]

sorry but i am so scandalized by that. (and i, too, live in NYC.)

 

[G Weldon]

I have to admit that it's bizarro.. I don't know if the stores compete with one another.. and that's why NY doesn't like brining in rings from Chicago and vice versa. It's not that they won't do it, but I get the distinct impression that they don't like doing it. Also, once the sales guy mentioned the $300 thing on three different occassions, I just feel very uncomfortable there. I really think it's utterly condescending and frankly, when you're looking at the cost, at that level, the attitude is unwarranted.

 

[hoorray]

I would have a problem with an attitude like that also. Have you considered one of the other high end jewelers like Henry Winston or Cartier? They carry as much or more "brand" clout, and I would hope would work harder to get your business.

 

[elmo]

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On 9/19/2004 3:21:01 PM lop wrote:

Have you considered one of the other high end jewelers like Henry Winston or Cartier?
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I'd add Graff to the list as well http://www.graffdiamonds.com/.

For 85 Gs I think I'd want some very serious colored diamond side stones to go with the three-carat puppy reena also suggested

.

 

[G Weldon]

I haven't gone to Cartier, but I have been to HW twice. HW seemed to have an asscher style or princess or some square ring shape, but when I was there, it didn't have a lucida shape. I tried on a couple of its rings, and I can't say that I was geeked. I think HW is more for an older crowd and larger stones. I don't want to go over 2.75 because I'm small and my ring size is 4 1/2. I guess I didn't really spend as much time in there as maybe I should have. I have to be honest, at the time I didn't have a budget of a ferrari so I didn't linger there too long. Now, a year later, maybe I should reconsider. Do they sell Lucere or Flanders type stones? I think HW takes special orders?

Cartier, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't offer a lucida/flanders/lucere type stone, right? On its website, the closest thing is a cushion stone, and the minimum is 3 carats... Ahhh, I think I'll stop in there today just to check it out. I will say this.. if I were going for a round stone I would definitely consider Cartier because I think its setting is fabulous.

 

[G Weldon]

I forgot to mention that I spoke with a Tiffany rep today. They are going to work with me regarding better cut. Yippi...I hope.

 

[moremoremore]

Oops! I thought those scope images were from Tiffany, but I see that Ana posted them. I think that's crazy that they don't even offer that most basic of services. And $300 to call the stone in? I guess fedex to Tiffany is "special". Jonathan seems to be able to call any stone in for 65-85 bucks. Anyhoo...good luck with the search...hope you fell comfortable trusting the Tiffany salesman to tell you what is a 'better cut'!