Young man wishing to change marital status. Please help.

[poorcollegeguy]

Hello Experts,

You all are great. I have been soaking your knowledge up for hours already. I am going to propose to my girlfriend in about a month and a half. She means the world to me and I really want to get her something amazing. Unfortunately, I am in school and have very little money and will be buying it on credit (I’d like to keep it under 4K but can go up to 5K). We have talked a little about it and she says that she doesn’t care (she’s very sweet) but I know she deserves something very special I was wondering if I could ask a few questions. Here they are:

1. Instead of a larger stone, she said she would be much happier with a smaller one that was more shiny/ higher quality. Are sparkle and quality synonomous? If not how are they different?

2. I want her to have a diamond she can signal planes with. What shape, cut, clarity, color, ect. would be optimal for sparkle (and what aspects, if any, are sacrificed for sparkle)?

3. Is there something to be said for Asscher and Emerald besides that they are more rare and have a distinct look?

4. If I have a .50-.70 carat ring will it look better (shinier, bigger) in a solitaire setting or with a setting with diamonds that are channel-set in the band?

5. I know what cut, clarity, color, and carat mean but what do depth, table, and fluorescence mean and how will they effect the look of the diamond?

6. Finally, does Blue Nile suck? I hope not because they are the ones that have given me credit.

7. Do any of you all have the slogan “[Insert store name here] Where the ice doesn’t break you”? Because if you don’t and want it, I’ll give it to you for some store credit

(You guessed right, I am trying everything

)

This is one of the most important things I have ever done for my girlfriend and I really want to do it right for her. If you even help with one of these I would really appreciate it.

Thanks,
Nathan

 

[goldengirl]

Lol--you seem very earnest and I'm sure she will appreciate the efforts you put in on her behalf. Let me just give you a few answers:

If you want her to have a diamond she can signal planes with, a round brilliant is going to be your best bet. DO NOT sacrifice the cut, that makes the biggest difference! Get an Ideal-cut stone, no matter what shape you decide (and it may be wise to feel her out on what shapes she prefers, as some people feel very strongly about some shapes). The color that will be "acceptable" to you will depend a lot on how color-sensitive she/you are, as well as what shape you buy. (For example, RBs are much more forgiving than, say, a Princess cut, so there are a ton of people happy with their I- or J-color RBs but for the Princess you should really try to keep it at H or above.)

Clarity, you will find, effects the COST of the diamond much more than its APPEARANCE. You will probably be able to find a nice, eye-clean SI1 for a good price, but if you're nervous buy a VS2. That clarity level will get you the biggest diamond in your price range. (Oh, and I spoke with BlueNile, who said that their Signature diamonds--even the SI1s--are inspected to be certain they're eye-clean. So you can safely buy a BlueNile SI1 without worry.)

Asscher and EC's are beautiful, very distinct cuts that take a certain kind of person to love them. They are lovely in their own right, but they probably won't be signalling any planes.

A "smaller" diamond will probably pack more of a punch as a solitaire, and IMO, if you go the solitaire route you will be able to afford much more in the way of the center stone than if you spend a ton of your budget on the setting.

Depth & table percentages mostly help us identify whether or not the stone is well-cut. A really deep stone, for example, won't reflect as much light. I suggest you get familiar with the definition of an "ideal" cut stone and discard anything that falls out of that range. (Try the Pricescope tutorial.) However, BlueNile keeps their Signature stones within the Ideal range, so if it's too much info you can always just stick to the Signature line!

Fluorescence is very much personal preference, and doesn't do much besides make the diamond look whiter unless under a blacklight. If it's very strong, if may make the diamond look cloudy or oily, which of course you want to avoid...but most people can't tell the difference between a faint, med, and no fluoro.

BlueNile has some very happy customers here on Pricescope; that, and their exceptional return guarantee would make me very comfortable buying from them.

The last thing I want to say is, if you buy a RB solitaire, you'll be able to swing a whole lot more than a .5-.7 stone for a $5000 line of credit... but I recommend you go for something "reasonable", instead of the biggest, bestest, blingiest thing you can get for what BlueNile will finance. You don't want to still be paying this thing off when you're married!

Examples of RB's I found in their signature line:

.84 G SI1
.71 H VS2
.53 G VS2
.40 G SI1

Happy Hunting!

 

[glitterata]

Some advice from an old married lady: Don't go into debt to buy a ring. $5000 or even $4000 is a lot of money if you don't have the income for it. You'll need every penny to start your new life together.

Does it have to be a diamond? Why not buy her a pretty gemstone ring for hundreds of dollars, not thousands? Or a well cut CZ that looks just like a diamond (check out the ones Wink Jones sells--he posts on this site). You can get a diamond later when you're making money.

Or get engaged without a ring. There's no law saying you need a ring to get engaged.

If you really think a diamond ring is necessary, consider waiting until you can afford it before you get engaged.

If I were your sweetie, I would rather have no ring and no debt than have to help you work off the debt once we're married or have wait to get married until you've paid it off. Weddings are expensive. Houses are expensive. Kids are expensive. Starting out in the world is expensive. Diamonds are a luxury, not a necessity, and debt makes everything much, much, much harder.

 

[denverappraiser]

I'll just answer one of the questions because there are so many well informed people here to talk about diamonds.

Question #6

No, Blue Nile does not suck.
Don't go into debt to buy a diamond.

If you decide that you MUST go into debt, dispite Glitterata's excellent advise, there are plenty of people out there that are anxious to loan you money at a better rate than the instore financing deals will give you. Visa cards in the 6-7% range are pretty easy to come by if you are creditworthy. If you aren't creditworthy, see the answer above.

Neil Beaty, GG ISA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[moremoremore]

I have recently discovered the good quality stones on B.N. But they are overpriced in my opinion....

 

[Todd07]

Hi PCG,


Take a look at this link to better understand dazzle in a ring. https://www.pricescope.com/forum/ed...diamond-eye-catching-or-beautiful-t15002.html




Round shape w/ Ideal cut should provide the most light return vs. Ascher or Emerald




For settings, do a search on Bezel and see if anything interests both of you. They can improve the size appearance. Another route might be to spend most of your money on the stone and get simple solitare setting. Later when you have more money, you can upgrade to a better setting, maybe adding side stones or channel setting.




For undestanding Cut, read up on the cut adviser and the ideal-scope




spend a week reading new posts, the tutorials here and and some of the vendor sites. Your questions have been discussed in other posts and reading will give you alot of insight.




my 2c recommendation for a guy on a budget.


Cut - Ideal round brilliant


Color - H-J provide the best value. You need to see stones at your local B&M to see how sensitive you are. D is more rare and preferred by many while others like the faint color and warmth in a less rare J-k.


Clarity - Go for SI1 that is confirmed eye clean




This is good tool to use Search by cut quality


I just found several H color SI1 clarity stones with HCA scores div>

0.795 carats $2961


0.84 carats $3192S


0.9 carats $4022*S





Blue Nile pricing is seen to be abit on the high side but as you said, they offer credit /idealbb/images/smilies/22.gif They don't provide Idealscope pictures but you should be able to get a Sarin report to analyze cut.

 

[glitterata]

If you absolutely must...

...get her an ideal cut J, K, or L SI2-I1. It might have a slight warm tint or a spot or two that you can find if you stare hard, but it'll be very bright and sparkly, and it won't cost nearly as much as a "better" stone that looks almost the same.

Here are a couple possibilities under $1000:

http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=2771313
http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=2358527

If you do go this route, the best way to do it is to choose one of the highly rated vendors on this board and discuss what you're looking for with him/her. Make sure the vendor looks at the stone. That way you'll know whether it's a "good," eye-cleanish I1.

But an even better idea is NOT TO GO INTO DEBT FOR A DIAMOND.

 

[fancycoloredfan]

Hi Nathan,
I agree w/ Ricardo on going with a bezel setting. My best friend's engagement ring is a bezel-set princess stone and it looks much larger than it is. So, yes, I'd consider a bezel setting...

Another thing to keep in mind, round brilliants ARE more expensive than other shapes like princess or emerald cut - there is a premium. So your idea to go with an emerald cut stone is not a bad idea at all - they are very beautiful and unique.

While I agree that you should not go in debt for a ring, I think it would make her happy AND YOU happy to come up with a ring to symbolize your unity/connection/commitment etc.

I'd say go for the emerald or princess cut.

-Ariana

 

[Jennifer5973]

If you must go into debt, try paying for it with a credit card, then immediately transferring that balance to one of these cards with no interest deals for 12 mos. Then, be disciplined about paying it off.

 

[Rowan]

Hi,
I have a RB .52ct G VS2 ideal cut stone in a platinum cathedral setting that sits up nicely off the finger. As I said in another post, it may not be a honker, but it certainly gets noticed. I get tons of compliments on how sparkly it is. Definately go with ideal cut.

 

[moremoremore]

even though the rounds are more expensive, they not deep cuts and face up bigger than fancy cuts (there is the issue of surface area, but I think they still look the largest). So while a comp. fancy in terms of ct weght is cheaper, you'll have to go up in ct weight in the fancy to get the visual size of the round.

Also, you have a lot less wiggle room for color in emerald and asschers. An I or J in a round will look MUCH whiter than a I or J emerald or asscher. Asschers also face up small.

 

[quaeritur]

----------------
On 9/17/2004 4:48:43 PM goldengirl wrote:

... (Oh, and I spoke with BlueNile, who said that their Signature diamonds--even the SI1s--are inspected to be certain they're eye-clean. So you can safely buy a BlueNile SI1 without worry.)...

Depth & table percentages mostly help us identify whether or not the stone is well-cut. A really deep stone, for example, won't reflect as much light. I suggest you get familiar with the definition of an 'ideal' cut stone and discard anything that falls out of that range. (Try the Pricescope tutorial.) However, BlueNile keeps their Signature stones within the Ideal range, so if it's too much info you can always just stick to the Signature line! ...

BlueNile has some very happy customers here on Pricescope; that, and their exceptional return guarantee would make me very comfortable buying from them.

----------

Hi there-

I'm one of BN's satisfied customers. HOWEVER, a few things to point out. Their signature stones fall into the BLUE NILE definition of ideal, not necessarily AGS (a very highly respected grading lab). Many of their sig stones actually don't perform that well on the HCA. So it's not a safe bet to just pick one and assume it will be great -you still need to do your homework and get crown and pavilion angles. The only info BN uses to grade their signature line is table and total depth%. I've found non-signature series stones of theirs, including the one I purchased, that were better than some of their sigs.

Also, BN tends to be slightly more expensive than some of the other vendors listed on PriceScope. Not enormously so, but something to take into account.

I think others have answered the rest of your questions, so I'll leave it at this. Enjoy the search!

 

[aljdewey]

College guy: I agree with everyone else....don't go into debt for the ring.




TRUST ME on this one. Before we knew each other, my DH and I both got in a bit over our heads....and it feels like being stuck in a trash compactor. Thankfully, we both learned the lesson....don't overextend. Starting out costs a bit of money....furnishing one's first place, etc. Plus you want to begin saving for the wedding.




Trust me on this also: a diamond doesn't have to be huge to make her happy. It has to be offered as a promise of marriage from you, and it should sparkle nicely....that's IT. From a woman's perspective, having a "killer" ring isn't worth it if it means her fiance is stressed out because he feels pressured trying to pay off debt.




Can I make a suggestion? If you really want to propose and you want to get a diamond, you can get a lovely, sparkly diamond in the half-carat range for relatively reasonable money....$1000-$1100. A simple solitaire setting will run you an additional $80 or so. I really think this is the more financially responsible way to go.




It will also hold a lot of sentiment. Later on, when you get more established, you can get her a larger stone if you wish......and it will mean more. It will be a symbol of how hard you've worked together and what you've accomplished. She'll be able to convert her half-carat stone into a lovely pendant when that day comes....or maybe use it as a side stone with the new diamond.




Here are a few that might work for you:




.55, G, SI2 for $1050.....the Ideal image on this is beautiful! http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-680230.htm#




.56, I, SI1 for $1071....again, beautiful IS image and well, WELL-cut. http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-677993.htm#




Good luck.

 

[hoorray]

Al and Glitteratta give good advice. Propose with something simple that won't put you into heavy debt. Make the proposal as thoughtful and special as possible. That is what this is really about. If you want to, tell her that down the road, you'll find an occasion to upgrade. She will probably love wearing that first stone around her neck (or however) forever. It will be memories of just starting out together.

I know we sound like kill-joys, but staying out of debt will make a huge difference on your near term future and set you up for a great start together.

 

[Daniela]

Regarding going into debt: It's also a question of when you're graduating, and how much you'll be making when you do. If you're one year from being done and know you'll have a good job lined up when you do, then it's probably just fine. But be very, very cautious. What Al said about getting in over your head before you've even started out is very true.

I am going to go against the grain and suggest that perhaps you should buy a ring with side stones (three stone? One with channel set diamonds?). It is my opinion that side stones, while they don't make the center stone look bigger per se, do contribute to the overall "presence" of the ring. A girl who just got engaged that I saw at the gym the other day had a ring with a smaller round and some baguettes on the side. From a couple of feet away, that ring really looked like it had presence. When you look at it, you see the overall package, not just the center stone.

There is more than one way to approach this purchase, which is probably why it's so exciting. Don't rule out side stones just yet!

I will, however, also strongly support the suggestion that you get a bezel! Bezels are so beautiful, there is a large variety of them out there, and they make the stone look a lot larger. I sometimes regret not having one myself for the wearability factor. If you get a nice half carat diamond that you can afford and set it into a bezel, or even one of those bezels with diamonds around the stone that make it looks so huge, your girlfriend's ring will be beautiful and big looking!

Here is the perfect thread demonstrating the size difference:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-new-bezel-set-micro-pave-e-ring-setting-is-here.18526/

Can you believe it? The magic of the bezel!

And my last advice is actually against the grain as well: Don't get a cheap setting. The whole ring should be beautiful, so even if you're buying a simple solitaire, buy something of quality that will last and that has nice finished details. It's not just about the diamond.

Edited to add: Asschers are beautiful. Rounds may technically sparkle more, but step cuts sparkle differently and are not inferior by any means. They don't signal planes, but they have their own subdued and very difference classy way.

 

[goldengirl]

quaeritur--

While I note, of course, that BlueNile can just make up whatever they define as an "ideal" stone and call them that

, in my perusals on their site (along with the AGS Ideal numbers table and the HCA), their Signature line stood up quite well. I didn't find any stones that didn't fit the AGS percentages of ideal--there might have been some polish/symmetry that were VG, but I cannot recall. I do know the ones I was drooling over were all AGS OOO. So I'm a little confused...

And yes, BN is probably more expensive...but like he said, they're offering credit, and like some folks would rather pay more to walk into a B&M, he's willing to pay their premium because they'll finance his dream of putting a diamond on his lady's hand. Sweet. I agree with you all that a diamond shouldn't be bought on credit...but to be quite frank, mine probably will be, too. I can understand his desire. But I still say he should buy a token, not a flare!

 

[quaeritur]

Hey goldengirl!

AGS ideal standards include crown and pavilion angle ranges for cut proportion, as well as girdle thickness and culet size, if I'm remembering correctly. Blue Nile only takes into consideration total depth% and table% for proportions (at least according to the info I found on their site), though they also require polish and symmetry to be ideal for their signature collection. I'm not saying there aren't nice sig stones out there, there certainly are. But it's better to know how to use the HCA before shopping for them, because there are sig stones like this one at Blue Nile as well. It's not terrible, but not something I'd want to be paying a premium for.

By the way, I haven't looked through their entire sig collection to see whether the stones are all AGS0. They may well be. But some AGS0s are more better than others