Received Appraisal - Diamond Value

[charlottedeac1]

This weekend I picked up my girlfriend''s(future fiance) ring, along with the GIA report and appraisal. The store completed the appraisal in house and inflated the value of the ring by 42% over the paid amount. Is this normal?

Also, as I was writing a check for the ring, I asked the woman if she would classify the stone to be an "ideal" cut. She said definitely, as it''s "round brilliant with a table of 58% and depth of 61.5." They do not have a Sarin, nor does any store in the area. Therefore, I can''t get the information on the angles of the stone. I don''t recall the third measurement on the stone, but the first two are 7.76x7.62x....
1.71ct
good symmetry
excellent polish

According to my research on Pricescope, I paid a fair price on the diamond if it''s deemed ideal. From what data is available, is this, or could it be an ideal stone? I must add that I have looked at the stone in various lighting and it seems spectacular.

Thanks in advance for your opinion!

 

[Richard Sherwood]

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The store completed the appraisal in house and inflated the value of the ring by 42% over the paid
amount. Is this normal?
-----------

It's fairly common. The only way to know if it is realistic is to have a non-involved appraiser tell you what the average retail value is.

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Also, as I was writing a check for the ring, I asked the woman if she would classify the stone to
be an "ideal" cut. She said definitely, as it's "round brilliant with a table of 58% and depth of
61.5." They do not have a Sarin, nor does any store in the area.
-----------

If they don't have a Sarin, they have no way of knowing whether the make is ideal or not.

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Therefore, I can't get the information on the >angles of the stone. I don't recall the third
measurement on the stone, but the first two are >7.76x7.62x....
1.71ct
good symmetry
excellent polish
-----------

The 58% table and good symmetry are going to keep it out of the ideal make designation. How far it ranks below that would be determined by the missing information.

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According to my research on Pricescope, I paid a fair price on the diamond if it's deemed ideal.
From what data is available, is this, or could it be an ideal stone?
-----------

Ideal proportions are very strict and exacting. Because of this they command a significantly higher price than non-ideal stones. Trying to gauge your diamond's value against ideal make prices is meaningless until you find out what cut class category your diamond is. The range of cut quality can cause the value of a diamond to vary by as much as 60%.

Chances are you've got a fine make stone and a fair price. You just won't know how fine and how fair until you have a non-involved professional examine the stone.

 

[denverappraiser]

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On 8/30/2004 9:45:30 AM Richard Sherwood wrote:

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Ideal proportions are very strict and exacting. ----------------

Rich,

I agree with almost everything you said with the exception of the above line. 'Ideal' is a shamelessly misused word and the meaning can vary enormously depending on what definition is being used at the time. Unfortunately, there is not an industry standard. In many cases, it means little more than 'Awsome' or 'New and Improved'. Under the AGS rules, the described stone would not qualify.

By the way, I though you said you were on vacation. You're not sitting on the beach writing e-mail are you? Knock it off! Have another margarita.

Neil Beaty, GG ISA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Neil, I know you're landlocked out there in the middle of nowhere, so I'll forgive you for disagreeing with me.

Do it again though and I'll have you shot.

Heh heh heh...

The industry standards that I recognize regarding ideal make would be the AGS and AGA cut class systems. These are the "standard bearers" recognized by most vendors dealing in ideal make stones.

I find that a lot of jewelers think "ideal make" refers to just a well made stone, and use the term little realizing that there is a specific set of parameters which apply to the term. The jeweler above seems a case in point.

How long do you think a diamond vendor would last in the trade advertising "ideal makes" and selling class 2 stones? There is, in fact, exacting standards recognized for the term. Look at the AGS 0 grade. All you have to have is the polish slip below "ideal" and you lose the ideal make status. That's pretty exacting in my book.

 

[denverappraiser]

Rich,

I also like the AGS and AGA standards. Personally, I use the word to describe AGS0 with EX/EX symmetry & polish. I regularly see dealers selling stones as 'ideal' that are nothing of the kind by either of those two standards. When pressed to produce a definition of their term, they either can't come up with anything or have something completely unrelated to the rest of the world. It's made me sensitive to claims of idealness.

Unfortunately, dealers who sell class 2 stones and call them ideal seem to be pretty successful at it. It also seems to work for dealers who confuse J colors with H's.

Neil Beaty, GG ISA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[valeria101]

I thought that "super ideal" is mostly PS wording for lack of better name to tell precisely cut graded H&A from AGS0... until I happened upon THIS page.

They say:
"The idea behind Super Ideal Cuts is that they display a visual effect that many call "hearts and arrows," although this is also a brand name. Cutting these Super Ideals requires more exacting symmetry than was possible before computer technology. The hearts-and-arrows effect is the result of this perfect symmetry, not of ideal proportions. Most Super Ideals, however, are cut to ideal proportions in order to maximize the brilliance and value of the stones..."

Is "super ideal" used reasonably often as a trade name ?

 

[Richard Sherwood]

I see what you're saying Neil. That cut grades are being commonly exagerated just like color and clarity grades.

That doesn't mean there's not an industry standard though, but just that's it's not being followed by many jewelers, mostly those who are naieve to the standard.

I agree with your observation though.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Valeria, I use the term "Super Ideal" on my appraisals when a diamond satisfies the following criteria:

1. AGS 0 or AGA 1A
2. Hearts & Arrows optical symmetry
3. Exceptional IdealScope image
4. Exceptional DiamCalc Light Return Analysis

I think the term has a proper niche in the grading "lingo", as long as it is used in the manner we see here on PriceScope.

 

[charlottedeac1]

The diamond is an F VS2, so while I agree Richard that it may not be ideal by your strict standards, it's still a rare and quality stone. I hope she loves it!

 

[denverappraiser]

charlottedeac1,

I apologize for spinning your question so far off track. I have a bad habit of doing that. It was so unusual to see a situation where Rich was wrong about something that I couldn't resist pointing it out. It turns out that we actually agree. In any case, this digression was not related to your stone and it was rude to hijack your thread after you had already recieved such a well considered answer.

It sounds like a wonderful stone, I'm sure she'll love it.

Neil Beaty, GG ISA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[Richard Sherwood]

I agree. Sounds like a great stone c.d. Congratulations.