vent

[Cehrabehra]

so my friend who started dating the dying guy is now way in over her head - she sent me an email to check out the guy's blog and I responded that I just got into beijing and cannot view certain things here including that and that I may not have a chance to for quite some time as I have only 2 days at home after this trip to prepare for going to the usa for 2 weeks and then getting the kids started on school but that I would try to at least take a look at it when I could.

so she called me on my cell phone "to talk". I told her I didn't have time because we just got to the hotel and we're going out on our onlyd ay in beijing on our own. I could tell she NEEEEDED to so I said I had 5 minutes.... then she sobbed on the phone for 45 minutes and took another 15 to compose herself. Even then I had to say I needed to go. She says I'm the only friend of hers that she can be truly herself with and I appreciate that.

I feel really bad for her that she's feeling all of these feelings of grief etc., but it was totally predictable and I find that irritating - especially when I'm a world away from her. There's really nothing I can do. She's bringing this on herself. Total crash and burn. I feel helpless.

UGH - This is all rhetorical, just needed to vent... the extra 5 minutes to blow steam for wasting an hour

 

[kenny]

I think you'd be a great friend, Sara.

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Sara, she's dating a dying guy?? Did she know he was dying when she started the relationship? (Sorry I think I missed the backstory!)

 

[Nashville]

I don't know any backstory here, but it does sound frustrating. I know that to most people it wouldn't seem logical to date someone with a terminal illness, but that's love. Again, I don't know the story but it doesn't seem like people usually make those decisions lightly and maybe it was for a good reason? Does she really care about him? Was she holding out hope for recovery?

I don't know anything beyond the snipet I've just read, and of course she shouldn't be infringing on your time when you've told her you can't talk. I imagine you've probably been very compassionate during this.

"but it was totally predictable and I find that irritating. There's really nothing I can do. She's bringing this on herself. Total crash and burn."
I know it probably seems that way, but it doesn't make it any less painful when someone dies. For whatever reason, she kept an open heart with this guy. Maybe next time say "I understand that it's difficult, but I don't feel as though I have any constructive advice to offer you as I've never been in this situation. Have you looked into a grief counselor? I just feel ill equipped and don't want to say the wrong thing." Might send a subtle hint?

 

[Indylady]

It sounds like you're mad she's dating someone that's dying?

Just because he's dying doesn't mean he's not somebody worth getting to know. If you're mad over this, you should tell her so she doesn't come to you about it.

 

[LadyBlue]

Old post for reference https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-would-you-do.142014/#post-139369#p139369

 

[RaiKai]

Just because she was aware the guy had terminal cancer when they started dating, does not make it any less hard, and I think to say she "brought it on herself" is incredibly harsh. Brought on what? Falling in love with someone? Wanting to get to know someone, despite their illness? How was she to know what she would really feel until she was actually there and in the situation?

I once had a boyfriend who got very sick after we had been together a few years. I know it is not the same as starting to date when I knew he was sick, but, it is my experience. He recovered, we thought, and then died suddenly not long after. I don't regret any of that time I had with him despite how things ended. I have to say that prior to meeting my H, he was one of the only people I had ever dated who really saw and loved me for who I was, authentically. Even if I had known how it was going to end, I would not have changed a thing about choosing to date him.

I do think that she was not very respectful of your time during this, when you said you could not talk, she needed to respect that, but, I also relate to her feeling there is no one else she can really talk to about this. I am sure she even finds it hard to talk about her SO about this at times. If YOU are finding it hard to talk to her about it, I would recommend next time you talk to her, you let her know that you understand she is having a hard time, but you do not feel in a position to help her through it, and recommend she talk to a grief counselor to explore more the deeper issues...but you will still be there as her friend.

 

[Cehrabehra]

I think you'd be a great friend, Sara.

Thank you kenny, that's one of the nicest things anyone has said to me here

I don't want to stir up another debate but to clarify a couple things - she met him at a benefit for him - she knew he had brain cancer before she ever talked to him. She has abandonment issues and tends to hook up with guys who are unavailable. Ironic since she is a successful psychologist. I love her to death, but all of the signs were there and she was unwise. I don't begrudge her her hurt feelings, those are a normal consequence of the path she's on. She chose this path, consciously. Blindly. She was fully aware but she disregarded it.

Right now he isn't dying but he spends one week out of every month on chemo and as much as he likes her and connects with her he wants a low drama relationship and so she's hiding all of her drama and internalizing it. And venting to me. She's also in the process of freezing eggs because she feels she will run out of time to find a life partner. STARTING a relationship, however noble, with someone who is so ill when you already feel stressed for time and have issues that this will guarantee to come up - who knows, maybe she can learn from this once and for all - it's not my job to figure this out for her. But it's my job to listen to her traipse down a path that was predicted and pointed out to her repeatedly before it got this far.

I told her before she can focus on finding peace with this she needs to meditate on her own inner strength and clarity. I told her that SHE undertook this path, this role, and it was a hard one and that she needed to be stronger or she needed to leave. She can't rely on everyone else to support her through this. I dunno - I feel for her and of course part of me wants to just be comforting, but I live so far away right now and it kills me that she bit off more than she can chew and that she *knew* better.

I have a hard time even addressing all of the emotions and feelings involved in their relationship because she was so foolish to start this path, she's not strong enough.

ETA - also, this is a woman I've been "best friends" with for 26 years and who is pretty egocentric. I also am having a difficult time with this because I am pretty overwhelmed in my own life right now. The things in my life are really good but time consuming and the time difference is difficult and it's hard when her primary focus in our relationship is what I will do or say to help HER. She's never been there for me - I had kids instead of going to grad school and she thought it was boring and made no secret of that fact.

 

[Indylady]

Cehra, I think you resent this woman. Are you really friends? I only ask because you put it in quotes. Perhaps its time to evaluate your relationship and distance yourself if you feel that she hasn't been there for you and has been critical of your life choices.

 

[VRBeauty]

I love her to death, but all of the signs were there and she was unwise. I don't begrudge her her hurt feelings, those are a normal consequence of the path she's on. She chose this path, consciously. Blindly. She was fully aware but she disregarded it.

...STARTING a relationship, however noble, with someone who is so ill when you already feel stressed for time and have issues that this will guarantee to come up - who knows, maybe she can learn from this once and for all - it's not my job to figure this out for her. But it's my job to listen to her traipse down a path that was predicted and pointed out to her repeatedly before it got this far.

I told her before... I told her... I live so far away right now and it kills me that she bit off more than she can chew and that she *knew* better.

..she was so foolish to start this path, she's not strong enough.

ETA - also, this is a woman I've been "best friends" with for 26 years and who is pretty egocentric. I also am having a difficult time with this because I am pretty overwhelmed in my own life right now. The things in my life are really good but time consuming and the time difference is difficult and it's hard when her primary focus in our relationship is what I will do or say to help HER. She's never been there for me - I had kids instead of going to grad school and she thought it was boring and made no secret of that fact.

1) You don't particularly respect this woman or the relationship choice she's made.

2) You feel like you don't have time to deal with her issues right now, and you resent that she's asking you to take time away from your busy life to spend time listening to the inevitable outcome of her foolish choices.

Sara -- that probably came off appearing to be more harsh than I intended. But... I think the main points remain: you think your relationship with this woman is one-sided to your detriment, you're not getting anything from it, and you don't have time for this kind of drama.

O why not just tell her that?

It sounds as if you think she's engaging in self-destructive or delusional behavior. If this is the case, and you're humoring her by listening or pretending to do so, then you're enabling her delusions at best, and at worst... encouraging them.

So just tell her that you're sorry, but your own family needs all of your attention right now... or tell her that you think she's madking a really foolish choice (in loving this guy) and beg her to please understand that you can't support it although she should know that YOU love HER and support HER in any way I can... or, whatever.

BTW I don't mean to denigrate the "my family cones first and that means I can't always respond to your e-mails argument; it is perfectly valid. So is the "I think you're making foolish choices and/or I think you're a drama queen at heart" argument. I do take issue with dancing around the question, and avoiding telling the (your) truth to either spare the confrontation or save the friendship.

 

[decodelighted]

Agree with the previous post. Once you "check out" *physically* (i.e.-- stop answering her calls -- because you've long ago checked out "emotionally") what's going to happen? She's going to blow a gasket & end up revealing all her true feelings to this dude & he's going to cut off the relationship for his OWN sake & she'll be free of this whole mess. Probably. That's my prediction.

You can't help someone so entrenched in the same drama stories. And they have no real reason to change as long as they are getting the same payoffs they've always been getting. Change your REACTION: change the game. Don't react. Don't feed into it. Cut it off & let the chips fall.

I've had to say to long-term friend: "I'm sorry, I just can't talk about xxxx anymore" But if, in this case, your XXXX is *HER* period.... then it might be time to "end" this "charade" of a "friendship". Which is probably imaginary anyway, right?

 

[missy]

Just because she was aware the guy had terminal cancer when they started dating, does not make it any less hard, and I think to say she "brought it on herself" is incredibly harsh. Brought on what? Falling in love with someone? Wanting to get to know someone, despite their illness? How was she to know what she would really feel until she was actually there and in the situation?

I once had a boyfriend who got very sick after we had been together a few years. I know it is not the same as starting to date when I knew he was sick, but, it is my experience. He recovered, we thought, and then died suddenly not long after. I don't regret any of that time I had with him despite how things ended. I have to say that prior to meeting my H, he was one of the only people I had ever dated who really saw and loved me for who I was, authentically. Even if I had known how it was going to end, I would not have changed a thing about choosing to date him.

I do think that she was not very respectful of your time during this, when you said you could not talk, she needed to respect that, but, I also relate to her feeling there is no one else she can really talk to about this. I am sure she even finds it hard to talk about her SO about this at times. If YOU are finding it hard to talk to her about it, I would recommend next time you talk to her, you let her know that you understand she is having a hard time, but you do not feel in a position to help her through it, and recommend she talk to a grief counselor to explore more the deeper issues...but you will still be there as her friend.

I agree with everything you wrote RaiKai.

While it may not have been the wisest decision on this woman's part to start a relationship with someone she didn't really know yet but kne was dying is besides the point as she already did. So no use lamenting over that. What's done is done.

Now the question is how to be best there for her without sacrificing your time with your family. And I think your advice is spot on. Just be honest (in a gentle way) and be there for her when you can and direct her to a professional with whom she can share all of this. In fact, as a psychologist she should already have someone in the field that she can go to since I believe they have to occasionally go to therapy themselves. Or that just might be misinformation I got while watching In Treatment LOL.

In any case it certainly would be prudent for her to be in therapy because of her habit (as Sara posted) of falling for emotionally unavailable men. That needs attention and soon if she is to lead a happy and peaceful and emotionally fulfilling life.

And once you love someone it should be for better or worse regardless of the fact she knew what she was getting into before she fell in love - this is the situation she is in now. I wonder how he feels about her...is he in love as well?

 

[iheartscience]

I would also have a hard time being sympathetic about the coming death of her boyfriend. Yes it's sad that he's dying, but she deliberately chose to get involved with him. I agree with VRBeauty's and deco's posts. I would tell her that you just can't talk about this subject because it's hard for you to be sympathetic when she knew what she was getting into.

I also did this with a friend regarding a relationship they were in. The friend knew what they were doing was self-destructive, yet they kept doing it, and then kept crying to me about it. I just cannot feel sorry for someone or be nice to someone who keeps making stupid choices over and over again. They stopped talking to me about it and it was better for our relationship.

 

[missy]

If I choose to be a friend to somebody I am unconditional in that friendship as long as it isn't abusive and I guess the definition of abusive is up for interpretation and unique to each individual. Yes, she made a mistake but that doesn't mean she will not suffer his loss and that doesn't mean she shouldn't turn to her friends. But as I said that choice is personal but to blame someone for their suffering is just not something I feel good about. It is what it is and as a friend all you can do is be there for her. If you can.

 

[Cehrabehra]

I am super tired and super freaking STUFFED from some awesome beijing food (surprisingly different from dongbei food) so I'm going to answer this once I no longer feel my stomach is going to explode but I had to just say one thing lol

Deco - awww, you remembered haha

 

[junebug17]

Just a few quick thoughts on this...Cehrabehra, you sound like you are having a rough time feeling sympathy for your friend right now, so maybe it's better to just be honest with her about your feelings, instead of trying to be comforting and supportive when your heart just isn't in it. I'm not being judgemental (sp) here, we all just feel what we feel sometimes. I love my sister with all my heart, but I get frustrated and impatient with her sometimes. I think that can happen in long-term relationships.

 

[Indylady]

I would also have a hard time being sympathetic about the coming death of her boyfriend. Yes it's sad that he's dying, but she deliberately chose to get involved with him.

Really? I imagine that if I met my SO and he was the same person, just dying, I would have still fallen in love with him and chosen to be with him. But, I also don't know Cehra's friend, and if she has a history of dramatic, complicated relationships, I can understand being frustrated and being unable to be sympathetic.

 

[LGK]

I am thinking she isn't really a friend at this point- that she's just one of these energy sucking drama queens we all could do with less of in our lives, and that you're letting the history blind you to the reality. Yeah, it's horribly sad she fell in love with a dying man. But it sounds like this is a pattern of hers, and was a choice she made rather conciously, and you're in freaking CHINA. It's gotta be hard to hold her hand if you're a world away, especially if you have had your sympathy for her worn down over the years.

I'd just (as kindly as possible) cut the umbilical cord already and tell her you wish her the best, but you're going to take a break for the time being, because you just can't be there for her in the way she needs you and blah blah. Maybe look her up in a few years when you're able to, if you want. But really, sometimes, you just gotta stick a fork in it and call it done.

I think I'm a bit cold and brutal about these types of things because I had to do this so much in my life- when I was a (rather wild and stupid) teenager & young adult I spent a lot of time with people that were noooo good, for me or my life. And consequently I had to do a mass exorcism during my mid '20s, and have been a heck of a lot happier for it. So perhaps, with my experience in cutting many, many people loose, I'm a bit more likely to choose to do that. I have rarely regretted the decision to do that with people who use me, or people who I realize I wouldn't trust to have my back if I really needed them, etc. Just not worth the energy, pretending you are friends, yanno?

Good luck. Not a fun situation, for sure.