Britain bans doctor who linked autism to vaccine.

[Irishgrrrl]

OK, let me preface this by saying that I don''t really know where I stand on this issue and, as a non-parent, I''m not entirely sure that I have a right to even HAVE an opinion on this issue. But, I''ve been interested in what everyone else has said in previous threads regarding this topic, and I wanted to make sure that everyone here got a chance to see this article: http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-world/20100524/EU.Britain.Autism.Doctor/

I''ll be interested in hearing what you all have to say, if anyone feels like discussing this. Do you think it was right to revoke the doctor''s license to practice medicine? Why or why not?

Please note that I realize that this is a hot-button issue for many, and I''m hoping to keep this discussion civil and in the spirit of PS.

 

[meresal]

I didn't read your link... but...

He was on the Today show this morning, and Matt llaid into him pretty hard, but he stands by his research. You can probably find the interview online.

ETA: If he indeed tampered with the findings in his research, then I do agree that his license should be revoked.

 

[pancake]

I'm a paediatric doctor. The damage that Andrew Wakefield has done is almost immeasurable and the impact continues to reverberate around the developed world. That he has been allowed to continue practising for so long - and and in being allowed to do so, continuing to propagate his bogus "evidence" amongst many parents who didn't know better but somehow thought they were being assiduous parents - is a travesty and I am glad to see him gone.

It is going to take years to undo the damage - heck, it already has been years.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 5/24/2010 6:45:45 PM
Author: pancake
I'm a paediatric doctor. The damage that Andrew Wakefield has done is almost immeasurable and the impact continues to reverberate around the developed world. That he has been allowed to continue practising for so long - and and in being allowed to do so, continuing to propagate his bogus 'evidence' amongst many parents who didn't know better but somehow thought they were being assiduous parents - is a travesty and I am glad to see him gone.

It is going to take years to undo the damage - heck, it already has been years.

Ditto this.

I'm really pleased that he has been struck off - that man has done a huge amount of harm and many children have died because of his scaremongering. Daisy is having her MMR and her next set of other shots next week and I am totally happy about that decision, especially as due to Wakefield there is a very low take-up in my area, there have been measles epidemics here for the last few years due to lack of herd immunity and over 10 children have died.

FWIW, my FIL (who's a geriatrician) sits on the committee that decides whether to strike people off the register or not. He wasn't on this case, but I know that they are extremely careful and rigorous with the investigations and trying the cases.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

I am guessing it is not his position that got his license revoked, but the way he went about doing his study.

I have read that he pulled kids from his son's Birthday party to partake in the study, and did colonoscopies for which there was no medical justification for. Putting children through the risks of anesthesia and the risks of the procedure (which are low but still present) were not justified for the study he was doing. There are also reports that he falsified his evidence. Some of thee cases he reported as 'colitis' actually had path reports that were normal.

It was his unethical methods that got the study revoked, not the findings. He did not carry out the study in a proper manner.

Here is the CNN article about the
Link

 

[asscherisme]

Date: 5/24/2010 5:02:41 PM
Author:Irishgrrrl
OK, let me preface this by saying that I don''t really know where I stand on this issue and, as a non-parent, I''m not entirely sure that I have a right to even HAVE an opinion on this issue. But, I''ve been interested in what everyone else has said in previous threads regarding this topic, and I wanted to make sure that everyone here got a chance to see this article: http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-world/20100524/EU.Britain.Autism.Doctor/

I''ll be interested in hearing what you all have to say, if anyone feels like discussing this. Do you think it was right to revoke the doctor''s license to practice medicine? Why or why not?

Please note that I realize that this is a hot-button issue for many, and I''m hoping to keep this discussion civil and in the spirit of PS.

I am the parent of mulitple autistic children and I do not for one tiny second blame the vaccines my children got. I blame family history that I did not know about when I was having my kids as well as me not recognizing signs of autism (aspergers) in my ex husband and not realizing that explained his inappropriate behavior and sometimes odd behavior on his part that ulitmately broke up our marraige.

I did not realize thats what my ex had until my oldest was diagnosed with aspergers and then it clicked. And I saw it in his father and his brother.

I think that to not vaccine your children puts not just your own children at risk but puts my children and your neighbors children and children across the country or other far away places at risk by bringing back diseases that were all but gone through the use of vaccine.

 

[Porridge]

Finally. His methods were appalling. He is not fit to practice.

 

[asscherisme]

Date: 5/24/2010 7:17:06 PM
Author: LtlFirecracker
I am guessing it is not his position that got his license revoked, but the way he went about doing his study.

I have read that he pulled kids from his son's Birthday party to partake in the study, and did colonoscopies for which there was no medical justification for. Putting children through the risks of anesthesia and the risks of the procedure (which are low but still present) were not justified for the study he was doing. There are also reports that he falsified his evidence. Some of thee cases he reported as 'colitis' actually had path reports that were normal.

It was his unethical methods that got the study revoked, not the findings. He did not carry out the study in a proper manner.

Here is the CNN article about the
Link

Absolutely I think it should have been revoked. I worked in a research lab in college and reading about how he did his research makes my skin crawl. No regard for his subjects. If that all really happened, as a parent, it makes me sick.

edied to add, even if I was not a parent his methods were unethical and sickening.

 

[kama_s]

PARTY AT MY HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!



About freakin' time

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

GOOD RIDDANCE!!! However, I will say that the doctor is only part of the ultimate problem. Lancet was negligent as well and I would really like to see some of the pressure put on the Journal.

Kama, I''ll be right over. Can I bring anything???

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 5/24/2010 7:17:06 PM
Author: LtlFirecracker
I am guessing it is not his position that got his license revoked, but the way he went about doing his study.

I have read that he pulled kids from his son''s Birthday party to partake in the study, and did colonoscopies for which there was no medical justification for. Putting children through the risks of anesthesia and the risks of the procedure (which are low but still present) were not justified for the study he was doing. There are also reports that he falsified his evidence. Some of thee cases he reported as ''colitis'' actually had path reports that were normal.

It was his unethical methods that got the study revoked, not the findings. He did not carry out the study in a proper manner.

Here is the CNN article about the
Link

LF, I agree. I don''t think his position was what did him in . . . I think it was the procedures he used in doing his research. It does seem that he employed some very questionable methods. (I read the same thing you did about the kids at the birthday party.) If he did, in fact, manipulate the evidence in the study to show the results that he wanted (not the results that the study actually supported), then I definitely believe the authorities were right in revoking his license.

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

I will bring the wine, what a problem he is.

I think the reasons his theory caught on were many. For one, the parents get to blame someone. It is not their fault, they didn''t feed little Johnny the wrong thing or have bad genes, the big bad profit hungry drug companies didn''t want to lose money by having people not take their vaccines. Never mind that vaccines have the lowest profit margin of pretty much everything they produce and the drugs to treat many of those conditions on the other hand cost a small fortune.

Second, it is better than having no idea. If you know the cause, you can work towards fixing it or divert your energy and frustration into activism. If it just sort of happens, what as a parent do you do?

I think he should review his oath, the first part is "do no harm".

 

[neatfreak]

I absolutely agree that he should have his license revoked. He falsified research which in turn caused many many children to go unvaccinated, which in turn is causing outbreaks of diseases that for all intents and purposes had previously been eradicated, which in turn has caused people to DIE from diseases that are preventable with vaccines.

Let me think about that one for a minute here...

 

[ksinger]

Date: 5/24/2010 8:03:13 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
GOOD RIDDANCE!!! However, I will say that the doctor is only part of the ultimate problem. Lancet was negligent as well and I would really like to see some of the pressure put on the Journal.

Kama, I''ll be right over. Can I bring anything???

Kama, I''ll bring my favorite "party shrimp". Even people who hate me love to see my shrimp arrive.

Agreement here. He''s clearly an ideologue, and as such is impervious to reason, and has lost his dedication to truth and ethics because of it. It always amazes and disappoints me when this happens to drs and scientists, but it can and does, and when it does, it can do enormous damage, just like we have seen because of the poor choice of The Lancet.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

Date: 5/24/2010 7:10:43 PM
Author: Pandora II

Date: 5/24/2010 6:45:45 PM
Author: pancake
I''m a paediatric doctor. The damage that Andrew Wakefield has done is almost immeasurable and the impact continues to reverberate around the developed world. That he has been allowed to continue practising for so long - and and in being allowed to do so, continuing to propagate his bogus ''evidence'' amongst many parents who didn''t know better but somehow thought they were being assiduous parents - is a travesty and I am glad to see him gone.

It is going to take years to undo the damage - heck, it already has been years.

Ditto this.

I''m really pleased that he has been struck off - that man has done a huge amount of harm and many children have died because of his scaremongering. Daisy is having her MMR and her next set of other shots next week and I am totally happy about that decision, especially as due to Wakefield there is a very low take-up in my area, there have been measles epidemics here for the last few years due to lack of herd immunity and over 10 children have died.

FWIW, my FIL (who''s a geriatrician) sits on the committee that decides whether to strike people off the register or not. He wasn''t on this case, but I know that they are extremely careful and rigorous with the investigations and trying the cases.

Thritto.

I don''t even want to think about the number of children that have died because their parents bought into this man''s studies.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Date: 5/24/2010 7:46:01 PM
Author: kama_s
PARTY AT MY HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!




About freakin'' time

Just bought a bottle of Patron. Margaritas anyone?

 

[softly softly]

Now if only Jenny McCarthy''s books and general pronouncements could be subject to the same level of scrutiny and sanction.

 

[Mrs Mitchell]

Date: 5/24/2010 8:33:28 PM
Author: neatfreak
I absolutely agree that he should have his license revoked. He falsified research which in turn caused many many children to go unvaccinated, which in turn is causing outbreaks of diseases that for all intents and purposes had previously been eradicated, which in turn has caused people to DIE from diseases that are preventable with vaccines.

Let me think about that one for a minute here...

I agree with this. He was struck off for breaching ethical guidelines on research and for falsifying data to support his hypothesis. The consequence of his actions was apalling, but I don't think that is was the reason why he was struck off. It was the act itself that was the reason if I'm understanding this correctly.

I personally think this is a good precedent, because otherwise researchers may not not be sanctioned for such breaches in situations where the consequences were less catastrophic.

What I find hard to understand is why the Lancet accepted his paper in the first place. When I carried out research at a psychiatric hospital in the UK, at the point where I submitted papers for publication, I also had to submit proof that I had received consent from the local Health Board's ethics committe before my study began. Getting that consent was a lengthy and complex process. Every aspect of the proposed methodology was scrutinised in detail by a panel including lay advisors, legal advisers, psychiatrists, psychologists and a medical statistician. I had to report any deviation from the original proposal and seek approval before continuing. None of my research was particularly high profile or groundbreaking, either. Just small studies, with no invasive procedures, mainly observing outcomes. Nothing that would affect patient outcomes in any way, yet I still had to go through that process. So I have no idea how his crazy methodology squeaked past an ethics committee, far less how it was accepted for publication in such a prestigious journal.

 

[pancake]

Date: 5/25/2010 4:21:52 AM
Author: softly softly
Now if only Jenny McCarthy's books and general pronouncements could be subject to the same level of scrutiny and sanction.

Unfortunately when you're a celebrity you get to say whatever you want, don't have to be accountable for any damage you cause, and a population of gullible people listen to everything you say because being a celebrity affords you "expert" status.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

While we all hope the published findings of medical research are based on fact or at least verified data, the public''s perception is based on trust. Ethical standards and practices for research are there to protect our trust in the findings, so that we, as lay people, can know that the due diligence has been completed and what we''re reading is the truth (or very likely). Situations like this undermine this trust on so many different levels. This doctor ultimately broke the Hippocratic Oath by his actions, because he did harm to our trust. He did harm to the medical profession. For that reason alone he should have his license revoked.

 

[TravelingGal]

Y. A. Y.

!
!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is still totally affecting us today and will for awhile to come. I put my daughter into preschool a few weeks ago and they asked for her immunization records. The director seemed so pleased that Amelia was totally current. I asked her, because I was curious, whether they accept non vaccinated kids (since they''re private and all). She looked sort of frustrated, and said they do, as long as they sign the personal belief papers (she said this with a half eye roll). I gathered that happens a lot. Who knows how many unvac''d kids are at that school, but considering it''s a upper middle class area, my guess is the numbers are pretty high.

 

[BoulderGal]

Re:

Date: 5/25/2010 4:21:52 AM
Author: softly softly
Now if only Jenny McCarthy's books and general pronouncements could be subject to the same level of scrutiny and sanction.

Unfortunately when you're a celebrity you get to say whatever you want, don't have to be accountable for any damage you cause, and a population of gullible people listen to everything you say because being a celebrity affords you "expert" status.

Hmmmm.... can we censure her as well? Permanent laryngitis perhaps?

Whooping cough (pertussis) is rearing it's ugly head in my area because of loss of herd immunity, thanks to Wakefield and followers. I have twins with autism, one more affected than the other, and a neurotypical (whatever that means). All got vaccinations.

 

[vespergirl]

Re:

Date: 5/25/2010 4:21:52 AM
Author: softly softly
Now if only Jenny McCarthy's books and general pronouncements could be subject to the same level of scrutiny and sanction.

Unfortunately when you're a celebrity you get to say whatever you want, don't have to be accountable for any damage you cause, and a population of gullible people listen to everything you say because being a celebrity affords you "expert" status.

It's unfortunate that many people listen to the opinions of celebrities, but fortunately many educated people I know don't take their medical advice from former Playboy bunnies. Thank goodness that dr. can't practice medicine anymore.

 

[Pandora II]

I paid privately for Daisy to have the varicella vaccination a couple of weeks ago as they don't vaccinate against chicken-pox in the UK.

I was advised to by my father and by the hospital consultant who we are seeing to establish whether or not she has Hereditary Spherocytosis - it's a dominate genetic condition that DH has so 50/50. DH is immunocompromised and so it would not be funny if she was to give him shingles or chicken pox.

Whilst discussing it with them and my GP practice nurse, I asked about why it wasn't included with the MMR as it has to be given the same day. Apparently Wakefield is the reason - they have such problems getting people to take up the MMR as it is without adding in another.

Uptake of MMR is so bad in my area that they now do the two shots 4 weeks apart rather than two years apart so that they can keep hold of the parents who sign up for the first one.

When I went to the private clinic, the New Zealand nurse who did the shot was telling me that it was mandatory in NZ and Australia and was also telling me about the problems they had seen with the single vaccines. Apparently loads of clinics set up to do these as there was a lot of interest from parents, however the majority ended up going bust often having taken payment up front. Plus it was found that many of the vaccines they provided were not stored or transported correctly and some came from dubious manufacturers so these parents were actually putting their children at potential risk and also risking not getting the immunisation. GPs don't do the single vaccinations here, you have to pay privately.

I admit that when I was looking for a clinic I went with the London Travel Clinic as I know they have a good reputation and are very busy so the probability of the vaccines being stored correctly was high.

So, all thanks to Wakefield kids here aren't covered for chicken-pox which whilst normally fairly mild (although horribly uncomfortable) can be very nasty. Children are hospitalised every year because of it and there have been some deaths due to complications.

ETA... I was out shopping a few weeks ago and spotted a couple of women in the supermarket wearing T-shirts saying 'We Support Wakefield'...

 

[softly softly]

Pandora I found your post very interesting. I live in Australia and had no idea that there were private clinics for vaccinations as I have always gotten mine through our G.P and have always followed the recommended schedule. Had I known they were available I very much doubt I would have used them as in my experience the whole MMR controversy/scare seems to have had less impact over here.