Vendor claims Ideal Scope is useless

[LGail]

I found the diamond I think I am going to buy. All the specs have turned out to be really good. I will repost below. The vendor sent me the picture of the diamond and it looks beautiful (somehow I can''t get it to upload into my message though). I asked for the ideal scope and he said 1. He had no means to take the "picture" and send it to me, 2. It''s worthless because there are no standards for how the diamond and scope are held and therefore the ideal scope can turn oout different depending on how either is held. Would this raise a red flag to anyone?
1.6 ctw princess cut
SI1, H
6.78 x 6.19 x 4.45
Depth: 71.9%
Table: 68%
Crown Height: 11%
Girdle: Slighttly Thick
Culet: None
Polish/Sym: Very Good/Very Good
Fluor: None
$6,980
How do you all feel the $ compares with the diamond?

 

[Mara]

well I don't know much about princesses, but the IdealScope shows light return. How you hold it is not going to fill color into blank white dead areas! It may show pale pinks where reds are or vice versa, but even if an absolute idiot is holding it, it still gives some idea on how the diamond will perform and what is a dead area. When I first got it, I had to practice a bit but even then you can see dead areas vs live ones and then as you use it more, you get better at recognizing the really great areas. just because he does not feel it's useful doesn't mean you as a consumer has to settle for his luddite ways. If anything, the light source to use is more contoversial as to what it shows...but how you HOLD it? Please! Tweezers and diamond in one hand and scope in other or set it up on a flat surface with a light source and snap the picture. Honestly, it's not rocket science to use the thing. I have taken and posted my own IS images of my own personal diamonds.




anyway my bottom line would be that i would not buy a fancy diamond (aka princess) without a scope image, the numbers are one thing but that image will tell you how that stone returns light which is especially important for a fancy stone. if knowing how it returns light is not important, then buy the diamond.

otherwise, tell him to get a digital camera ($150) and an idealscope ($25) and come up to speed on the year 2004.

it may help him sell more stones in the long run.

 

[mm]

add to those "HUGE" outlays a lightsource that is sold by idealscope (really just a battery powered slide viewer with two countersunk holes in the perspex, so you can site the diamonds in) and you idiot proof it!

The diamond is always held correctly, with the right light.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Thanks 4 the plug guys

$30 for the light.

If your vendor can take normal photos he should take the pink reflector out and use it without the lens in the way he takes his normal photos.

PRincess are not as easy to grade with the ideal-scope. But get a pic and we will help you.

 

[icelady]

LGail,

Since you are pretty new (to posting anyway) to PS, you may not know that Garry H is the developer of the Ideal Scope.

Go back and tell the jeweler what Garry said, and if he doesn't have an Ideal Scope, offer to send him one, its only $25 and is worth having!

 

[kevinng]

Aha! So, that's what it is! I will buy a battery powered slide viewer.
Then I will drill 2x countersunk holes in a square plastic block and stick it on top!

Personally, I find the Idealscope very useful! It helps us identify the diamond if we send it to the jeweller too. If it comes back leaky... call the police.

 

[WinkHPD]

No less an authority on diamond cutting than Richard von Sternberg, head of EightStar diamond company made a public posting that the ideal scope was an excellent tool for the public to be able to use at an affordable price to help them see where the light is coming from in their diamonds.

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

P.S. I must resist the urge to start a new thread "buyer claims Vendor is useless"

 

[strmrdr]

I always get myself in trouble in these threads :}

This is just my opinion: the ideal-scopes and ones like it give the consumer a shortcut to developing an expert eye for diamonds.
I makes major problems like miss cut facets that leak light, fisheye and nail heads obvious even to the non experts.
Im not sure I buy into that it shows something that rhino/"r/t"/wink wouldn’t see with there bare eyes/loupe.
But it does make it visible to non-experts.
Thus it does serve a very useful purpose especially when buying diamonds over the net.

Tell you stone A ideal cut h&a diamond will return 5% more light than diamond B ideal cut h&a .. well I call no way :}

 

[ame]

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On 7/13/2004 11:56:44 PM LGail wrote:

Would this raise a red flag to anyone?
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Yup. And Id tell him that Im taking my business elsewhere.

 

[WinkHPD]

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On 7/14/2004 4:34:08 AM Garry H (Cut Nut) wrote:

Thanks 4 the plug guys

$30 for the light.

If your vendor can take normal photos he should take the pink reflector out and use it without the lens in the way he takes his normal photos.

PRincess are not as easy to grade with the ideal-scope. But get a pic and we will help you.
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Gary,

Kisses and HUgs! Just yesterday I had to tell a lady that I could not get good pictures through my Hearts and Arrows viewer and that taking pictures through the firescope required more than I was prepared to give as far as set up etc.

This morning after my meeting with my webmaster I was able to take this picture in under one minute. Maybe it is not perfectly set up., but it is very good and quite usable to show the quality of the Arrows. Thank you for solving this for me!

Thanks also for Paul Slegars for leaving me an Idealscope to play with and to take apart!

Wink

 

[Patty]

Great pictures Wink!

 

[WinkHPD]

Thanks Patty, the stone was not perfectly level, which makes the arrows at 3 and 9 o'clock look very slightly crooked in the picture. At normal magnification and when the stone is perfectly level they look perfect to the eye. Photography can be VERY brutal!

Wink

 

[researcher]

As a princess lover (and recent owner!), I can't praise the ideal scope enough. Some stones that looked great by the numbers had AWFUL light leakage, and I could have only known that from the images. So, even though your stone has AMAZING

numbers, you really do want to check out the ideal scope image just to be sure. Have you considered buying your own ideal scope to check out the stone? You might feel kinda funny going into stores with it (I did), but I wouldn't buy a fancy without seeing the light leakage through an ideal scope! Good luck!!!

 

[kevinng]

Oh... I found my own ideal light.

I took the transparent plastic cap off my ideal hair mousse... and made a countersunk hole on it. Then, I put the plastic cap on my PDA, and turn the brightness on to high.

All I have to do is to place my ideal diamond on the ideal plastic cap, I can use the Idealscope to view the diamond with ease.

Since I carry my PDA around all the time, that's one problem solved.

 

[questionsRus]

haha are you an engineer keving? i like your improv solution

 

[Rank Amateur]

Rank Amateur claims Vendor is useless.

 

[chialea]

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On 7/15/2004 12:47:07 PM kevinng wrote:

Oh... I found my own ideal light.

All I have to do is to place my ideal diamond on the ideal plastic cap, I can use the Idealscope to view the diamond with ease.

Since I carry my PDA around all the time, that's one problem solved.----------------

Does this mean you carry the mousse around as well? I've a good number of friends with the "bat belt" effect from the gadgets, but that's just a bit overboard.

Go Go Gadget Hairdo!

 

[quaeritur]

LOL! too funny

 

[nicknomo]

The vendor is partially right IMO. The problem with the ideal scope is that you have no idea how the person taking the picture is lighting it.

It would be plausible if everyone is taking the picture the same way, using the same equipment. Then comparison would be very useful.

However this is not the case. An under exposed image with too little light can easily produce an image with no visible leakage. Same goes with distance of the diamond from the scope. By putting the diamond practically inside the scope, it can look much better than it actually is.

Of course, the above comments describe dubious behavior by the vendor, intentionally done to trick the potential buyer.

There are other ways the scope could legitimately be innacurate for the purposes, under similar circumstances to the ones listed above. Let's say you have a light pink region in the center of the diamond (fairly common). Too much light, or multiple non-rear light sources can make this center more pronounced.

Take the same diamond, and give it too little light, and slightly less exposure time on the camera... and you light pink area in the center gets a bit darker. Most people, who would unknowingly see the same diamond side by side with these two different exposure would probably grade the darker one as superior.. when in truth it is hte same diamond.

The point is, without standardization of practices, an ideal scope image may not present a completely accurate picture of the diamond you are buying. By no means is it useless... practically any way you do it will give you a good estimate of light leakage. Despite this, non standard or slightly different usage will cause different results. The level of precision of hte instrument is ultimately decided by the user.

IMO, the ideal scope was a great tool for me, as I could ensure that my procedure for viewing the diamonds were correct. I also viewed the diamonds the same way each time. It was very useful in this respect... I think everyone has to understand though, that once you hand someone else the scope, you can't count on consistency.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

How true - I have wanted to create a system that gives consumers consistent photo's for years.

Along the way we decided the best way to encourage vendors to all use the same system was to save them time (= money).

We have worked with OctoNus software developers to develop a rapid capture system that automatically crops the photo and files it to where ever you wish.
The system takes great normal full frontal photo's as well.
And there is never a need to use adobe!!!!

The software is almost ready. We have holding trays that are all the same and easy and quick to change between ideal-sccope and normal view.

It works with mid range Canon cameras (Canon allow us to control the camera from the computer screen).

Any enquiries email to [email protected] and we will contact you.

 

[nicknomo]

Wow.. looking pretty techno savvy there

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Not bad for a little outfit who flog pink shot glasses

FOFL

 

[noobie]

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On 7/16/2004 5:13:37 PM Garry H (Cut Nut) wrote:





Not bad for a little outfit who flog pink shot glasses

FOFL

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LOL, hey can you pass me another, HIC

 

[WinkHPD]

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On 7/16/2004 5:13:37 PM Garry H (Cut Nut) wrote:

Not bad for a little outfit who flog pink shot glasses

FOFL

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I wash gon shay that after take out pink thingy for pic ture taken, that little clear thingy makes for good drinken! Hic