Starting a Family

[monkeyprincess]

Anyone else considering trying for a family shortly after you get married?

My fiance and I have been talking lately about how long after the wedding we will stop trying not to have a baby (if that makes sense). I'll be 28 when we get married, and he is almost 10 years older than me, so age is a bit of a factor. We both really want at least two children, and my older sister experienced some problems with infertility before she had her two little ones. I know of many other people who have experienced difficulty, so it is just not something I'm going to take for granted and wait around too long. Therefore, we're talking about not doing anything to prevent a pregnancy after we have been married about 3 months or so.

The main problem with that is that it doesn't really make sense career-wise for me to have a baby for a few more years because I'll be a new associate at a large law firm about a month after we get married, and I'm sure the partners will not take kindly to finding out I'm pregnant a few months after starting. But I refuse to let that dictate my family decisions. The other concern I have is that we will miss out on having time to just be a married couple before becoming a family.

Just curious what other people's thoughts are on this issue. Am I crazy to consider trying for a baby so soon after getting married?

 

[laughwithme]

With you at 28 and hubby at 38, and a sister with infertility issues - I personally would start very quickly. I think it has a lot to do with your priorities - if you want to advance in your career agressively, the truth is, a baby will probably hinder that. But, let''s be honest - if the job contract is written, you''ve got the job, preggo or not. It sounds like you have a great career ahead of you, so the real question is, are you ok with not advancing as quickly as another woman might who can wine and dine the clients every night, and show up at 4:30 am to bust her butt on a big case. Those are the people who will likely get the promotions. As for quality time in a marriage - what things have you always imagined doing with your hubby before having a family? That''s a good place to start - trips to take? Sky diving? Cooking classes? Whatever it is - mark em off the list and then start trying. Maybe you don''t really have many of those things, or you''ve already accomplished them - if this is the case, might as well start trying asap.

So to answer your question, I don''t think you''re crazy at all, and in your shoes, I would probably start trying on my honeymoon. But, kids are a huge priority to me (three of them) so I would expect to be ready to start that family at age 28.

 

[mayerling]

I''ll be in my thirties when we get married so I''d definitely like to start trying soon after the wedding.

 

[LadyJane83]

This is a very personal decision. I wouldn''t say that you are crazy for wanting to start a family shortly after you are married. Some people know that they want a family right away and never use birth control. If you have been with your future husband for a long time (especially if you have lived together, traveled together, etc.) waiting to start might not be that important.

But it sounds like you are hesitant.... and that might be an indication that you should wait. Can a doctor rule out some of your concerns about fertility? (I''m not sure what they can do...) In general, after 35 it becomes more difficult (but far from impossible) for a woman to conceive... but you should be fine up until that point. You could wait until you are 30 or 32 even to have 2 kids by the time you are 35. "Older" parents are more common today than ever.

You have to decide, on a personal level, whether you want to put your career first or have a family. I hate to be so blunt, but I think it will be short of impossible to have a successful career as an attorney in a large law firm and have a successful family life with young children... unless your husband is in a position to be a stay at home dad, or does not otherwise work long hours and is willing to take on the brunt of the child care. I''m not saying this is right, but having worked at a large law firm (and having several friends working at other large law firms) I''d say it is the reality.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

 

[LadyJane83]

I''d like to edit that a bit. I think you can have a successful career as an attorney and have young children in some situations... it''s just not as likely at a large law firm b/c of the billing requirements.

 

[purselover]

Date: 3/26/2010 2:29:51 PM
Author: LadyJane83
I''d like to edit that a bit. I think you can have a successful career as an attorney and have young children in some situations... it''s just not as likely at a large law firm b/c of the billing requirements.

ditto everything LadyJane said ....also idk if it has any merit but the one thing everyone said to me about getting married was wait to have kids and make sure you have enough time to enjoy yourselves as a married couple first

 

[lucyandroger]

Date: 3/26/2010 2:29:51 PM
Author: LadyJane83
I''d like to edit that a bit. I think you can have a successful career as an attorney and have young children in some situations... it''s just not as likely at a large law firm b/c of the billing requirements.

Not just the billing requirements but also the unpredictable schedule and complete lack of respect for your life outside of the office.

***bitter lawyer here***

 

[stephbolt]

I''m 27 and FI is 30 (we''re getting married in 5 weeks). We have decided to wait at least a year after getting married to think about starting a family. Part of that is around that time, FI should make partner at his firm (he''s at a small disability law firm and has been all but guaranteed this). Part of it is wanting some time to do something besides save money and worry about wedding planning, we''re excited to take some trips. And part of it is we would love to sell our current home and move somewhere larger first. Once we get all that done, well, then we''ll see about kids.

 

[monkeyprincess]

I know, if I had known the realities of life as a lawyer before, I wouldn''t have signed up for law school Honestly, I''m going to work at this law firm because that is my best option at this point, not because I have a desire to be a high-power attorney. Fortunately, or unfortunately, I did quite well in school and was able to get a great clerkship, so I feel like I owe it to myself and everyone who helped me get to this point, to try it out for awhile. And we should be able to put nearly all of my generous salary into savings. It is my hope that after I get experience at this firm, which is large by my city''s standards (not NYC/DC standards), I will have more of a shot at getting some sort of in-house/corporate counsel type position, which will be more conducive to having a family.

My fiance and I will have been together for 3 years this coming June, and we will get married in August. We do not live together, but really, for the past year, we might as well have been. We spend every free moment together, eat dinner together every night, and usually alternate whose place to stay at. So, I feel like we are getting a taste of married life now. We will be taking a couple trips before the wedding and going on a honeymoon after the wedding, so I don''t really feel like we will have missed out on that kind of thing.

The timing of all of this is what frustrates me.

 

[LilyKat]

Monkeyprincess, only you can know what is right for you. You're certainly not crazy, and many many people try straight after getting married - but you have to make absolutely sure it's what you really want right now, and you won't look back later in life and wonder "what if". I imagine you've worked really hard for the career opportunity you have now. I would say that 28 is still young as far as fertility goes. I wouldn't leave it until the last minute - eg if you were 32/33, I'd be telling you to get a move on. But perhaps a compromise of waiting 2 years would seem make you more comfortable? Many of my friends are doctors/lawyers/other professionals, and I only know one or two who had babies before the age of 30 (of my generation). There are few fertility problems that you'd have at, say, 31, that you wouldn't have had at 28.

How does your fiance feel about it? If you both feel the time is right and you truly want it, then I think you should go for it. Just don't feel under pressure when you're not

And remember that however long it took your sister, you should only stop trying not to have a baby (I get what you mean!) when you're ready to get pregnant RIGHT AWAY - because sometimes, it only takes once...

 

[LadyJane83]

I can sympathize When I signed up for law school having kids and getting married was the last thing on my mind. Now, the work schedule and student loans seem to complicate things and limit my choices.

Anyway, I think it is smart to work in a large firm for a few years and save money. Government jobs are also more conducive to family life and usually provide great benefits. I''m sure you will find a balance that works for you. Sometimes it''s just the best bet to "go with your gut."

 

[NovemberBride]

Honestly, I would never recommend having a baby while a junior associate at a large law firm. It''s not a matter of whether you advance quickly or not, it''s a matter of meeting the bare minimum requirements of the job. I worked at two large law firms as a junior associate and a typical workday for me was leave the house by 8 and get home no earlier than 8 (but much later on many, many nights). I have no idea how I would balance that with having a small child unless I had live-in childcare or my DH stayed home. But you wouldn''t be seeing your child very often. As a junior associate, you will have no control over your hours. No one is going to let you off the hook because you have a small child. There is a reason most women wait until they are mid-levels or above to have kids. Once you are a mid-level you have more opportunity to dictate your schedule (i.e. you can take work home, etc). I don''t mean to make it sound terrible, I actually loved a lot of things about working for a firm, but this was before I had a child. I went in-house 2 years ago and just had my first child. Much more manageable. However, most in-house positions are for those with 4+ years experience, so that wouldn''t be an option for a few years.

 

[monkeyprincess]

It''s not only my age I''m concerned about - I realize in all likelihood I will be able to have a baby for several more years - but like I said, my fiance is ten years older than me, and for a variety of reasons waiting several years is not an option. I''m still looking for jobs now, and if something comes along between now and September, I would gladly give up the firm job. But with the economy as it is right now, people are a little gun shy about adding on new employees, and I just don''t have the experience needed for many of the available positions I have applied for.

 

[LabRatPhD]

This is something FI and I have been discussing. We want children but have no idea when the best time would be. I am 27 and in my 4th year of graduate school and FI is 29 and a 4th year associate in a big law firm. We are both highly motivated individuals and have goals we want to achieve, maybe even me moreso than FI. There is no way I would have a child during grad school because of the hours I work and chemicals I deal with on a daily basis. I plan on going into big pharma after my PhD/postdoc and it is not the most forgiving environment for women who want to have children. FI would like to make partner or at least counsel at the firm, which will be very difficult, and he will also have unforgiving hours. He has said that going in-house would be an option for him but he isn''t sure. My mother has volunteered childcare since she knows FI and I are very career-oriented but I feel terrible using that option. Needless to say, we are still struggling with this issue.

I have no advice to offer but wish you the best in making your decision. It is incredibly tough!

 

[LadyJane83]

If I were you, I wouldn''t necessarily give up the big firm job until I actually had the baby. I''d milk it for all it was worth and save up some dough in the meantime.

If you are in a "now or never" situation with respect to having kids and you know that you want them, I''d suggest starting right away. I''d say it would be crazy NOT to start right away. Just make sure it really is a "now or never" situation first, because it seems like all else being equal, it is advisable to wait a while.

I know your future husband is older, but if he is in good health, this alone doesn''t have to sway you. My parents had my brother when my dad was in his forties and it worked out fine.

 

[monkeyprincess]

Thank you for your comments and perspectives. It really does help to hear other people''s thoughts. I know for myself being a mother is more important to me than my career, so I will not let my career dictate my family decisions. But you''re right ladyjane that I do not necessarily need to treat it as a "now or never" kind of thing.

 

[NovemberBride]

Date: 3/26/2010 4:18:18 PM
Author: monkeyprincess
Thank you for your comments and perspectives. It really does help to hear other people''s thoughts. I know for myself being a mother is more important to me than my career, so I will not let my career dictate my family decisions. But you''re right ladyjane that I do not necessarily need to treat it as a ''now or never'' kind of thing.

Monkeyprincess - I felt exactly the same way you do. My career is important to me (as I think it is to anyone who suffered through 3 years of law school), however, my daughter is hands-down more important than my career. If you can hold out a few years and stick it out at the big firm, you will have a lot of options open to you that make it much easier to balance a law career and a family, such as going to a smaller firm or going in-house. In my current in-house position, I make a great salary but work 9-5:30 for the most part. I drop DD off at daycare on my way in and I am home by the time DH gets home with her. I have the option to bring a lot of work home with me, so I can do work after she goes to bed. For me, it really is the best of both worlds - I have a challenging job but feel I get to spend a sufficient amount of time with my baby. I know I would not have been given an opportunity like this if I did not pay my dues at a large firm for a few years.

 

[RaiKai]

I think this is a very personal decision that only you and your partner can make, irrespective of other people's experiences once you have considered the "factors" that are important to you.

My husband and I married at 30 and 35 and are still those ages for a little longer, I am a still new lawyer (but in a very family oriented, close-knit firm) and while there are some legitimate concerns about fertility and a few other personal factors I won't get into, neither of us is quite ready for children at this point. If we do decide have children, we won't be actively trying to conceive for at least another 2-4 years. If there was an "oops" we would manage, but we are not going to actually TRY for quite a while. However, we come from a perspective that if we can't have them, we won't feel our lives are incomplete either and that there are other options for us if we still want children (i.e. adoption). I try not to put too much pressure on myself about what may or may not happen, to be honest. I am just not ready, even if my bio clock ticks (strongly at times).

I don't know, while I recognize there are legitimate fertility concerns in general, and some specific ones for myself, I also know MANY MANY women who had beautiful healthy children in their mid to late thirties (and beyond) when they were ready. Most of my friends did not have their first child until their early thirties if not later.

And...your sister is NOT you. Really, I don't advise making this decision based on others experiences or pressures...you need to do what works for YOU and your partner. Period.

Anyway, only you can decide. I agree with LadyJane's comments about the law career path though....there is a reason a lot of women leave the law profession (i.e. family life), and the attrition rate is FAR higher in large firms (and very few women get to partner status in big firms). I am very fortunate where I work as I have incredibly life balance and they are very high on respecting personal life choices. I am quite confident I will be able to bring my child to my office if I needed to, but even so, it will likely be my husband who stays at home (willingly of course!) as he is going to have actual paternity-leave benefits, etc which I will not as a "self employed professional", and my salary will likely be higher...and to be honest, of us both, he is the one more eager to stay at home in the early years (and I think he is better suited to it than I too!).

To be quite honest, my husband and I really want to enjoy our lives "just us" for a while longer and all that entails (like last minute dates, romantic vacations, sleeping in on Saturday mornings....) that just aren't going to be possible for at least a while after having children. Don't underplay the importance of having a strong - and fun - marriage before bringing children into it. You are going to need that strength, and fun, when your days consist entirely of nothing but diaper changes and talking about baby poop (really, it happens). I know you spend a lot of time together...but that is still VERY different than living together so it's really not quite a "taste of married life" yet!!

 

[dcgator]

I don''t think you are crazy for wanting to go right into having kids after marriage. I too am 28, and have very many of the same concerns (family and fertility wise, not lawyer wise). My DH and I got married last June and we had initially planned on waiting 2 years before having a baby, considering my OBGYN had told me to start before I was 30 (due to cysts and fibroid issues) But, we are both finding that we want a family and now is as good a time as any since we have steady jobs, etc.

As for your particular job situation, I can''t speak to the lawyer-specific issues, but I can say that there will probably not be a "perfect" time to have a kid. There will always be something that would make you think about waiting. If you know you want kids, I can''t imagine it''s going to be much easier to have them when you are just becoming a partner or in some other scenario. If you have a support system like family offering day care, that sounds pretty solid.

Regarding the married-time thing, I do not have kids, but I have heard this arguement a lot from my mom

. I am not saying she is wrong, but I believe life is a lot different for her generation than mine. She got married and started having kids years before I did. I can certainly understand why she could have wanted more "married" time and/or time to enjoy herself and figure out who she is. In my case, I have a bachelors degree, Masters degree, have lived overseas for 2 years, have traveled a lot, and have been by myself for longer periods of time. (My DH has also had considerable travel/life experience.) I feel like I know who and I am and what I want. If I had gotten married at 23 and had a kid by 25, I''m sure I would have felt differently. Also, my mom quit her job after my bro was born, and bascially became a SAHM, and I''m sure she felt a bit cheated with other things she wanted to do.

As far as time with my DH, we have been together for just shy of 3 years and have lived together for about 2 years. I don''t think (hopefully

) there are going to be anymore surprises with our personalities. He has acutally been gone for about 4 months of our marriage (deployment) but I feel like we know eachother and will remain just as close post-Little One. While we enjoy us time, we would really like a LO and figure being young enough to enjoy them will be nice (not to knock those who wait a while, just our preference).

That being said, other PP are correct in stating that it is a personal choice. No one can decide for you, you just need to be ready. But, I strongly urge you to talk to you OBGYN before you stop not trying. The process is not usually as easy as just stoping Birth Control or whatever method you use. My OBGYN wanted me to stop BC 6 months before I wanted to get pregnant. You also need to be sure you have adequate insurance coverage, etc. Finally, if you are really going for it, it doesn''t hurt to be on prenatals either. I would recommend "What to Expect Before You''re Expecting" just to get an idea of the process.

I wish you best of luck with whatever you decide and should you want some hints about what to look forward to, please lurk in on the TTC Thread

 

[Haven]

Date: 3/26/2010 4:46:51 PM
Author: RaiKai
I think this is a very personal decision that only you and your partner can make, irrespective of other people's experiences once you have considered the 'factors' that are important to you.
[ . . . ]
And...your sister is NOT you. Really, I don't advise making this decision based on others experiences or pressures...you need to do what works for YOU and your partner. Period.
[ . . . ]
To be quite honest, my husband and I really want to enjoy our lives 'just us' for a while longer and all that entails (like last minute dates, romantic vacations, sleeping in on Saturday mornings....) that just aren't going to be possible for at least a while after having children. Don't underplay the importance of having a strong - and fun - marriage before bringing children into it. You are going to need that strength, and fun, when your days consist entirely of nothing but diaper changes and talking about baby poop (really, it happens). I know you spend a lot of time together...but that is still VERY different than living together so it's really not quite a 'taste of married life' yet!!

I agree with all of this, and RaiKai's last paragraph describes us well, too.

DH and I married in July of 2008. We were 27 and 38 at the time. I thought for a while before we married that we would probably want to try shortly after we married, but that turned out to be so far from how things have played out.

We are having so much fun being married that we are just not interested in having children right now. A part of me started to question whether I really want children shortly after I realized that I didn't want them *right away* but now I've realized that I do want them, just not right now.

In my opinion, the only good reason to have children is because you *want* children and you are prepared for the realities of becoming a parent.. I'm absolutely not interested in having children before I really want them just because of my age. If we get baby fever while we are still able to have children, THEN we'll have them. But to have them any sooner than when we are truly ready and wanting them is just not going to cut it for us.

I'm currently 29, and DH is 39 until 4/15.

 

[sonnyjane]

I am 26 and have been married for 16 months. I'm going to aim for having a child by 30, so starting to try when I turn 29. I honestly wouldn't mind one a little bit sooner, but I am not in a position, financially that is, to have a child yet. I owe a TON of money on my school loans, and even though I'm currently working, every dime I make goes to my loans and my husband pays all of our other expenses. Even at that rate, it's going to take me a long time to pay these puppies off.

I, like you, am also torn because I worked really REALLY hard to get to where I am currently in my career. I finally have my absolute dream job, and I'm worried that if I leave the work force to have a child, I won't be able to break back in (it's a very competitive and physical job, so I couldn't work while pregnant either; it would have to be a long break).

I do think it is important to have "husband and wife" time after being married prior to becoming an instant family, so that's something you will want to consider seriously. Even though my family has a history of fertility issues, my mother had my youngest sister at the age of 41 without issues, so it's definitely possible to have children later in life - 30 isn't the magic number is all I'm saying That's when I'll aim for, but even if I reach 35 and don't have a child yet I won't panic.

 

[mayachel]

We have baby fever in this household! Just today, I was thinking about how excited I am for us to start ttc. I''m 29, getting married this summer, and for over a year have been joking about a honeymoon baby when go away in the winter. We live together, and have 3/4 of our ducks in a row. We know we want kids, we already own our first home, and have a bit of savings. Meanwhile, I''m aiming to graduate and pass boards in the spring of 2011. I am FREAKED OUT by the thought of being pregnant one year from now. Because of similar things. I''ll be doing a clinical rotation in the spring with potential for 24hr shifts, boards and then looking for a job! Part of me really wants to start working ASAP. but, with a hypothetical baby due that following fall...well, it just doesn''t seem like the time to try and start. I feel like my timing is off on the career/family track. BUT I know that my mother started menopause fairly young. By the time she was in her early 40s she was done! AND my history hasn''t been the most dependable and predictable to say the least. I''ve also spent 4 years specializing in reproductive health and women of all ages with fertility issues, so ya. The gist of it all is, I''m not interested in leaving it to chance. I''ve got many more prime working years than fertile years.

 

[PumpkinPie]

I''ll be 29 at the time of our second wedding anniversary this July and we still feel like we still need some time to reach some financial/career goals before making any babies decision. However this is a very personal decision and no one can answer the question. Are there any indications/symptoms suggesting that you may have infertiity issues? Like I said, I''m almost 29 and still feel like I''m not being rushed by my body/biology.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

I am settled in my career, and will be 31 going on 32 when we get married. I was originally planning on starting a family right away. But there is still one more thing I want to do, go to Italy. I don''t want to take a screaming toddler, and I want to drink wine (I love Italian wine), so I really don''t want to go pregnant. So now we are planning a trip to Europe 6 months after the wedding, and we will TTC shortly after that.

 

[katamari]

So some advice from someone who married at 32 and is planning on waiting: Over the course of your children''s lives, having 29/39-years-at-your-birth parents versus 31/41-years-at-your-birth parents will have no measurable difference. However, in terms of your career and relationship, waiting these two years could make very impacting differences.

I also second PPs who mentioned talking to your GYN (and it is probably even more important to have your FI go to his doctor for a sperm analysis). Fertility is much more strongly effected by your own physiology than your genetics. Most doctors aren''t able to tell you will have fertility issues until you begin to TTC, but they can rule out some major problems that will limit fertility early.

 

[megumic]

Ahhhh! Monkeyprincess! I think we are the sameeee exact personnnn!

Okay, slightly different, but more similar than not! I am a 2L and we are getting married in Oct. We want to start TTC in January 2011, which means potentially preggo as I take the bar and begin a clerkship (fingers crossed I get one!) So I tottalllllyyyyyy hear every single little word you are saying!!!

The thought of starting a legal career newly married with baby in tow is exhausting. It really is. I think it''s a very personal choice and has to be right for you, but I know for us we''ve always decided our professional lives will not put our personal lives on hold or even be considered in our personal life plans. (Hence a wedding mid-3L fall semester - I must be crazier than ever.) But that is a very very personal choice.

As hard as I''ve worked in law school, that JD won''t go anywhere. I''ll always have it and it will always have value and be meaningful. While a big law firm career is sure to be taxing and stressful, I say go for it and see how it goes. If you decide to go for a family and get pregnant, you''ll change pace if necessary. Sometimes I think trying to plan so much is precisely what throws us off course in the first place! Plus, planning conception is like predicting when the economy is going to come back.

Very contrary to what PP have said, my very favorite professor said to me the other day to not wait to have kids, because then you get to enjoy them longer. I mean, how is this not a totally excellent and valid point???

I also often dread the "what if it takes me four years to conceive" notion. It gives me anxiety pangs already! Daily we talk about our plans to stop trying to not get pregnant, so I totally get where you guys are right now.

Only you can decide whether your career will dictate your personal life or vice-versa. I would agree with many posters that a stable career, income, reinvesting your law school time into the field, etc, is a great move - I also advocate that having a child will not be ruinous to your career or future.

 

[monkeyprincess]

We ARE in very similar positions megumic. Good luck with finding a judicial clerkship. I truly think it is one of the best jobs in the world. I absolutely love it and would do it a lot longer if it were an option. I also think it would be a great job if you have a child because my schedule is pretty predictable. And the health insurance is great (assuming you do a federal clerkship). My co-worker''s wife had a baby, and it was FREE.

To answer some of the previous posters'' questions, my sister has mild PCOS and endometriosis, and she was unaware of either condition until she tried for a baby because she really didn''t have any of the usual symptoms. Both conditions are thought to be hereditary, so that is definitely a worry for me, even though I do not have any indication I have a problem. I did a lot of research while she was struggling, so I know all about TTC. I''m hoping we will get lucky and not struggle, but I would rather know at 28/29 that I have fertility issues than wait until 32/33. Plus, my fiance is nearly 40, and I have seen research discussing paternal age as a risk factor for infertility and some genetic disorders.

I understand people can and do have babies later in life, so I know there is no need to panic. But we both feel like we have done enough living for ourselves and would love to have a baby together. Hopefully, we''ll be able to start trying in the next couple of years.

 

[mrscushion]

I know where you''re coming from. It''s tough getting a well-paid, fast-track job out of expensive graduate school and wondering whether, once you''ve had kids, that investment will still have been worth it.

I''m 29 and about to be done with graduate school. I''m getting married in September to FI, who is also 29 and still finishing school as well. I know there is risk involved in pushing children off, but I just cannot fathom yet giving up (a) my close relationship with FI and (b) pausing my career. I know I want children, but not before 31/32. I want to get a good job now and then establish myself solidly within that organization before having kids.

Only you know what''s right for you.

 

[pinki]

I''m 29 and FI''s 32 and we''re starting immediately. We want 3 kids, and if you start spacing them out about 2 years we''re looking at having our last when I''m 35/36 and that''s just getting into a risky age and increases chances of problems. I''ve been off birth control since January to get it out of my system so that when June hits we can get at it right away! We''ve been friends 8 years, together 3 so I really don''t see a need in having time as a married couple.

 

[yssie]

Not immediately, but plan to start trying within a couple of years of our wedding this September (we''ll be 23/24). I want to have all our children in my twenties, and we''re hoping for three. I anticipate that it''ll be hard juggling work and school (for me, FI will be done in a year or so), but it''s looking like we''ll be alternating somewhat, so one of us will shoulder more "family" responsibilities than the other at any given time... I couldn''t imagine not having a successful career, or giving that up to start a family - or vice versa, I''m just lucky I''m not in a field that would demand those sacrifices.


Monkeyprincess, only you and your FI know what''s right for you - and whatever your thoughts and feelings are, you''re not crazy for having them!