Media blue fluorescence stone, reserve or return ?pls help me

[feidudu]

Got a stone from bluenile 1.25c e vs2 3ex with an amazing price only $8.5k, indoor everything is perfect but when outside ,I found something just like my pics follows .
I am a new guy and I do not know whether it looks like milky or cloudy ? I just think it is not clear , Is fluorescence the reason ? Actually I do not know whether I should just take it ... Any guy can give me some suggestion ?
thks for replying .

 

[feidudu]

sometimes it seems to be very good.. same time and same place pic...

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/20/2010 1:16:57 PM
Author:feidudu
Got a stone from bluenile 1.25c e vs2 3ex with an amazing price only $8.5k, indoor everything is perfect but when outside ,I found something just like my pics follows .
I am a new guy and I do not know whether it looks like milky or cloudy ? I just think it is not clear , Is fluorescence the reason ? Actually I do not know whether I should just take it ... Any guy can give me some suggestion ?
thks for replying .

Hi feidudu and welcome!

Medium blue fluorescence will not normally have any adverse effects on a stone such as causing it to be cloudy, just to check is the stone clean? If you are unsure what you are looking at, take the stone to an independant appraiser that can check the fluorescence for you and give you some peace of mind.

appraiser listing

It looks like a beautiful stone and ring, its possible it is the fluorescence you are seeing as you might notice a slight bluish glow in some lighting, also diamonds can look blue if they reflect the sky so that could be what you are noticing.

 

[Firestone]

It does appear to have fluorescence. Stones with fluorescence look blue in sunlight. Did you know that the stone had fluorescence? I would return it. No fluorescence is preferable.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/20/2010 1:21:51 PM
Author: Firestone
It does appear to have fluorescence. Stones with fluorescence look blue in sunlight. Did you know that the stone had fluorescence? I would return it. No fluorescence is preferable.

In your opinion. Please make this clear if you are going to continue to offer your advice here.

You might find this article on fluorescence from the Pricescope Tutorial of interest.

 

[feidudu]

actually I do not care blue light ,blue makes it different and valuable , I just can not bear it not clear as I expected . but since I am new guy , I do not which reason caused this ,and I do not want to make a wrong decision .

 

[Lula]

Date: 3/20/2010 1:21:51 PM
Author: Firestone
No fluorescence is preferable.

Why? Sources? Evidence? Your credentials?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/20/2010 1:30:46 PM
Author: feidudu
actually I do not care blue light ,blue makes it different and valuable , I just can not bear it not clear as I expected . but since I am new guy , I do not which reason caused this ,and I do not want to make a wrong decision .

I understand, what I would do so you get the advice you need is definitely get an appraiser to take a look, I really doubt there is a problem but it could well make you feel better to hear that from someone whom is an expert and can inspect the stone for you.

If you use the tool above in my earlier post I linked for you, it will give you names of appraisers in your area.

 

[Lula]

Date: 3/20/2010 1:30:46 PM
Author: feidudu
actually I do not care blue light ,blue makes it different and valuable , I just can not bear it not clear as I expected . but since I am new guy , I do not which reason caused this ,and I do not want to make a wrong decision .

Welcome, feidudu, when you say it is not clear as you expected, do you mean that it is not a white color like you expected, or do you mean that the diamond appears cloudy, like you can''t see into it?

 

[Round Halo Lover]

Threadjack:

Much nicer Avatar Lorelei!!

 

[Firestone]

Date: 3/20/2010 1:22:32 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/20/2010 1:21:51 PM

Author: Firestone

It does appear to have fluorescence. Stones with fluorescence look blue in sunlight. Did you know that the stone had fluorescence? I would return it. No fluorescence is preferable.

In your opinion. Please make this clear if you are going to continue to offer your advice here.


You might find this article on fluorescence from the Pricescope Tutorial of interest.

Then perhaps you should prefix your posts with "in your opinion". Stones with fluorescence are marked down. If fluorescence was a positive attribute stones with fluorescence would cost more. Like this poster, most people don''t expect their diamonds to look blue in sunlight.

 

[Tom Gelb]

In looking pretty closely at this photo (and please bear in mind that there is only so much one can learn without looking in real life) there is a possiblity that the table facet (the large facet on the top of the stone in the center) is at such an angle in relation to the light that it is just about to reflect the sun. If this is so then this reaction is very normal and common to all diamonds. Basically the light is reflecting off the surface of the facet. It is not the brightest part of the light that is being reflected, but it is light nonetheless, and any diamond reacts the same way at that angle to the light. But please note this is simply a possibility. I hope it helps.

Good luck.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I have read many posts from appraisers here on PS and they all agree with a situation where flor adversely affects the optics of a diamond are very rare and only with strone blue flor. So the most likely explanation is either cleanliness and Lor point out, or reflection as Tom suggested, it seems to me.

But to set your mind at ease, it is worth taking it to a qualified independent appraiser to have it checked!

Your stone is amazing BTW! And a very good price.

 

[Lula]

Date: 3/20/2010 1:41:00 PM
Author: Firestone

Date: 3/20/2010 1:22:32 PM

Stones with fluorescence are marked down.

Because of marketplace pressure (preference, e.g., your preference) not because they are defective, which is what your post insinuates. (Choice of words matters here, Firestone).

And, in some cases, fluorescence adds to the value/price of the stone (e.g., stones that are below H in color).

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/20/2010 1:41:00 PM
Author: Firestone

Date: 3/20/2010 1:22:32 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/20/2010 1:21:51 PM

Author: Firestone

It does appear to have fluorescence. Stones with fluorescence look blue in sunlight. Did you know that the stone had fluorescence? I would return it. No fluorescence is preferable.

In your opinion. Please make this clear if you are going to continue to offer your advice here.


You might find this article on fluorescence from the Pricescope Tutorial of interest.

Then perhaps you should prefix your posts with ''in your opinion''. Stones with fluorescence are marked down. If fluorescence was a positive attribute stones with fluorescence would cost more. Like this poster, most people don''t expect their diamonds to look blue in sunlight.

I have no need to do that when I am quoting factual information, when I am making certain statements then I try to make sure others know this is my preference or opinion only. You should do the same.

It is true some diamonds with fluorescence are marked down due to the stigma from years back concerning it, maybe in time this will change. And some actually enjoy having their diamonds look bluish from the effects of fluorescence.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/20/2010 1:41:41 PM
Author: Tom Gelb
In looking pretty closely at this photo (and please bear in mind that there is only so much one can learn without looking in real life) there is a possiblity that the table facet (the large facet on the top of the stone in the center) is at such an angle in relation to the light that it is just about to reflect the sun. If this is so then this reaction is very normal and common to all diamonds. Basically the light is reflecting off the surface of the facet. It is not the brightest part of the light that is being reflected, but it is light nonetheless, and any diamond reacts the same way at that angle to the light. But please note this is simply a possibility. I hope it helps.

Good luck.

Thanks Tom!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/20/2010 1:39:39 PM
Author: Round Halo Lover
Threadjack:

Much nicer Avatar Lorelei!!

HEHE!

Thanks RHL!

 

[feidudu]

Date: 3/20/2010 1:36:00 PM
Author: sarap333

Date: 3/20/2010 1:30:46 PM

Author: feidudu

actually I do not care blue light ,blue makes it different and valuable , I just can not bear it not clear as I expected . but since I am new guy , I do not which reason caused this ,and I do not want to make a wrong decision .

Welcome, feidudu, when you say it is not clear as you expected, do you mean that it is not a white color like you expected, or do you mean that the diamond appears cloudy, like you can''t see into it?

I mean that it looks cloudy...but I can not tell....it is so weird .

 

[Firestone]

Date: 3/20/2010 1:56:12 PM
Author: sarap333

Date: 3/20/2010 1:41:00 PM

Author: Firestone

Date: 3/20/2010 1:22:32 PM


Stones with fluorescence are marked down.

Because of marketplace pressure (preference, e.g., your preference) not because they are defective, which is what your post insinuates. (Choice of words matters here, Firestone).


And, in some cases, fluorescence adds to the value/price of the stone (e.g., stones that are below H in color).

The marketplace is what decides what is preferable. Stones with fluorescence sell for less money than stones with no fluorescence because it is not a desirable characteristic. And a stone turning blue in sunlight is pretty dramatic. It is no different than saying a colorless stone is preferable to a stone looking yellow or saying that an eye clean stone is preferable to visible inclusions.

This person was obviously taken back and concerned about how the stone looked in sunlight. I don''t see how it is being helpful to him to mislead him to think that it is a normal occurrence for diamonds to turn blue in sunlight. He specifically asked if this could be due to fluorescence and he specifically asked for opinions if he should return it.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/20/2010 2:06:33 PM
Author: feidudu

Date: 3/20/2010 1:36:00 PM
Author: sarap333

Date: 3/20/2010 1:30:46 PM

Author: feidudu

actually I do not care blue light ,blue makes it different and valuable , I just can not bear it not clear as I expected . but since I am new guy , I do not which reason caused this ,and I do not want to make a wrong decision .

Welcome, feidudu, when you say it is not clear as you expected, do you mean that it is not a white color like you expected, or do you mean that the diamond appears cloudy, like you can''t see into it?

I mean that it looks cloudy...but I can not tell....it is so weird .

Its highly unlikely to be the medium blue fluorescence, I would definitely see an appraiser to put your mind at ease. And do make sure the stone is very clean as this can dull it tremendously.

 

[feidudu]

thanks all above . u r so zealous

 

[Firestone]

Date: 3/20/2010 2:06:33 PM
Author: feidudu

Date: 3/20/2010 1:36:00 PM

Author: sarap333

Date: 3/20/2010 1:30:46 PM


Author: feidudu


actually I do not care blue light ,blue makes it different and valuable , I just can not bear it not clear as I expected . but since I am new guy , I do not which reason caused this ,and I do not want to make a wrong decision .

Welcome, feidudu, when you say it is not clear as you expected, do you mean that it is not a white color like you expected, or do you mean that the diamond appears cloudy, like you can''t see into it?

I mean that it looks cloudy...but I can not tell....it is so weird .

It is possible the fluorescence is making the stone look cloudy. What color grade is the stone and how strong is the fluorescence. Regardless, if the look of the stone doesn''t please you, you should return it.

 

[Lula]

Date: 3/20/2010 2:11:25 PM
Author: Firestone

Date: 3/20/2010 1:56:12 PM

Author: sarap333

Date: 3/20/2010 1:41:00 PM


Author: Firestone

Date: 3/20/2010 1:22:32 PM



Stones with fluorescence are marked down.

Because of marketplace pressure (preference, e.g., your preference) not because they are defective, which is what your post insinuates. (Choice of words matters here, Firestone).



And, in some cases, fluorescence adds to the value/price of the stone (e.g., stones that are below H in color).

The marketplace is what decides what is preferable. Stones with fluorescence sell for less money than stones with no fluorescence because it is not a desirable characteristic. And a stone turning blue in sunlight is pretty dramatic. It is no different than saying a colorless stone is preferable to a stone looking yellow or saying that an eye clean stone is preferable to visible inclusions.


This person was obviously taken back and concerned about how the stone looked in sunlight. I don't see how it is being helpful to him to mislead him to think that it is a normal occurrence for diamonds to turn blue in sunlight. He specifically asked if this could be due to fluorescence and he specifically asked for opinions if he should return it.

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. It is your opinion that he should return it. It's perfectly fine to express your opinion.

It is my opinion that stones with blue fluorescence are under-valued in the marketplace.

We can have a difference of opinion, as long it is clear what is opinion and what is the result of industry research.

Here's where I disagree with your post, and where I believe you need to provide more evidence for your statements:

What is not true is that fluorescence often causes stones to be cloudy. GIA tried to do a study of this and could not find enough stones negatively affected by fluorescence to comprise a meaningful sample. If you want to argue with GIA, be my guest.

What is also not true is that the presence of medium or strong blue fluorescence lowers the value/cost of a stone. Again, in stones with color grades below H, fluorescence adds a bit to the price.

I own a stone with strong blue fluoro, and I did my research before I bought it. That is the basis for my knowledge.

Finally, medium blue fluorescence may not be enough to turn the stone blue. It is not clear if the poster is seeing the blue sky, the effects of fluorescence, inclusions such as clouds, etc. We just don't know. That's why the recommendation is for him to take the stone to an appraiser -- hopefully an appraiser who is using this century's standards for grading stones and not myths.

I agree with you; if, after he gets an expert opinion, he still does not like the stone, he should return it.

 

[Firestone]

Date: 3/20/2010 2:29:10 PM
Author: sarap333

Date: 3/20/2010 2:11:25 PM

Author: Firestone

Date: 3/20/2010 1:56:12 PM


Author: sarap333

Date: 3/20/2010 1:41:00 PM



Author: Firestone

Date: 3/20/2010 1:22:32 PM




Stones with fluorescence are marked down.

Because of marketplace pressure (preference, e.g., your preference) not because they are defective, which is what your post insinuates. (Choice of words matters here, Firestone).




And, in some cases, fluorescence adds to the value/price of the stone (e.g., stones that are below H in color).

The marketplace is what decides what is preferable. Stones with fluorescence sell for less money than stones with no fluorescence because it is not a desirable characteristic. And a stone turning blue in sunlight is pretty dramatic. It is no different than saying a colorless stone is preferable to a stone looking yellow or saying that an eye clean stone is preferable to visible inclusions.



This person was obviously taken back and concerned about how the stone looked in sunlight. I don''t see how it is being helpful to him to mislead him to think that it is a normal occurrence for diamonds to turn blue in sunlight. He specifically asked if this could be due to fluorescence and he specifically asked for opinions if he should return it.

Okay, now we''re getting somewhere. It is your opinion that he should return it. It''s perfectly fine to express your opinion.


It is my opinion that stones with blue fluorescence are under-valued in the marketplace.


We can have a difference of opinion, as long it is clear what is opinion and what is the result of industry research.


Here''s where I disagree with your post, and where I believe you need to provide more evidence for your statements:


What is not true is that fluorescence often causes stones to be cloudy. GIA tried to do a study of this and could not find enough stones negatively affected by fluorescence to comprise a meaningful sample. If you want to argue with GIA, be my guest.


What is also not true is that the presence of medium or strong blue fluorescence lowers the value/cost of a stone. Again, in stones with color grades below H, fluorescence adds a bit to the price.


I own a stone with strong blue fluoro, and I did my research before I bought it. That is the basis for my knowledge.


Finally, medium blue fluorescence may not be enough to turn the stone blue. It is not clear if the poster is seeing the blue sky, the effects of fluorescence, inclusions such as clouds, etc. We just don''t know. That''s why the recommendation is for him to take the stone to an appraiser -- hopefully an appraiser who is using this century''s standards for grading stones and not myths.


I agree with you; if, after he gets an expert opinion, he still does not like the stone, he should return it.

LMAO!! Your personal opinion that stones with fluorescence are undervalued in the market place doesn''t change the fact that fluorescence is not a desirable trait and such stones are sold for less. Factually stones with fluorescence sell for less money. Your personal opinion is not going to change the views of the diamond industry and consumers at large. Regardless of your personal opinion, I don''t think it is honest to mislead someone to think that a stone with fluorescence that turns blue outside is a desirable characteristic. Most people don''t want their diamond to look like a mood ring. If a person understands that it is not a desirable trait and still wants the stone, that is fine. We all pick and choose what is important to us.

"What is not true is that fluorescence often causes stones to be cloudy."

I didn''t say that. Please don''t accuse me of saying something that I didn''t say. I said it was possible that fluorescence could cause a stone to appear cloudy. That is a true statement. I also asked the color grade and amount of fluorescence.

You and I aren''t there. If the poster says the stone looks cloudy, I am going to accept the word of the poster who is actually viewing the stone.

Bottom line is the poster is not happy with the looks of the stone. If I wasn''t happy with the looks of a stone, I would not waste my money on an appraisal because no appraisal is going to make someone like a look. It sounds like this person knows the stone has fluorescence and the stone is showing blue.

 

[kenny]

We have four diamonds that range from no fluorescence to my asscher which is GIA F, medium blue.

In the sun I can see blue in all four, which must be reflections of the blue sky.

 

[Lorelei]

It is really quite simple.

This poster has just purchased an E VS2 diamond with medium fluorescence if I am reading the title and first sentence of the post correctly. I also take it from that post and their second one that they are otherwise pleased with it but are concerned that it looks cloudy outside. As for the stone looking blue, I also ascertain from a latter post that this is to them a desirable feature of the diamond, also diamonds can reflect the blue of the sky routinely- nothing can be done about that.

Medium blue fluorescence is apparently rarely responsible for making a stone look cloudy, therefore there are other possibilities such as the stone being dirty or other scenarios - however as we are in no real position to judge here on an internet forum, if the poster otherwise likes the diamond, then taking it to an independant appraiser would quickly tell him if in the rare instance there is a problem, or far more likely not.

 

[Firestone]

Date: 3/20/2010 2:58:23 PM
Author: Lorelei
It is really quite simple.


This poster has just purchased an E VS2 diamond with medium fluorescence if I am reading the title and first sentence of the post correctly. I also take it from that post and their second one that they are otherwise pleased with it but are concerned that it looks cloudy outside. As for the stone looking blue, I also ascertain from a latter post that this is to them a desirable feature of the diamond, also all diamonds do reflect the blue of the sky - nothing can be done about that.


Medium blue fluorescence is apparently rarely responsible for making a stone look cloudy, therefore there are other possibilities such as the stone being dirty or other scenarios - however as we are in no real position to judge here on an internet forum, if the poster otherwise likes the diamond, then taking it to an independant appraiser would quickly tell him if in the rare instance there is a problem, or far more likely not.

I didn''t catch the color grade was listed. Based on the title of the thread, I suspect the person knows the stone has fluorescence. High color grades such as E with strong fluorescence have been known to look cloudy. I wonder if the fluorescence is stronger than medium or if medium fluorescence with an E is causing a little cloudiness.

 

[feidudu]

Hi,guys. I think I find my answer . I took a pic moment ago as follows .
Even under the sunlight ,I can still see the bottom of the setting . I think a cloudy stone can not do this .
I hope I am right
I really appreciate for all the suggestions .

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/20/2010 3:09:08 PM
Author: Firestone

Date: 3/20/2010 2:58:23 PM
Author: Lorelei
It is really quite simple.


This poster has just purchased an E VS2 diamond with medium fluorescence if I am reading the title and first sentence of the post correctly. I also take it from that post and their second one that they are otherwise pleased with it but are concerned that it looks cloudy outside. As for the stone looking blue, I also ascertain from a latter post that this is to them a desirable feature of the diamond, also all diamonds do reflect the blue of the sky - nothing can be done about that.


Medium blue fluorescence is apparently rarely responsible for making a stone look cloudy, therefore there are other possibilities such as the stone being dirty or other scenarios - however as we are in no real position to judge here on an internet forum, if the poster otherwise likes the diamond, then taking it to an independant appraiser would quickly tell him if in the rare instance there is a problem, or far more likely not.

I didn't catch the color grade was listed. Based on the title of the thread, I suspect the person knows the stone has fluorescence. High color grades such as E with strong fluorescence have been known to look cloudy. I wonder if the fluorescence is stronger than medium or if medium fluorescence with an E is causing a little cloudiness.

There is a possibility, abeit extremely remote, that the fluorescence is stronger than stated on the report but this would be very unusual and even more unusual that it is having a negative effect on the stone. But as it would appear the OP otherwise likes the diamond, an appraiser would soon be able to tell them what the situation is. SB fluorescence can apparently cause cloudiness in the rare cases it is an issue in even near colourless diamonds.

As Sara stated above, GIA wanted to do a study on strong/ extremely strongly fluorescent diamonds which did display effects such as cloudiness, but out of the 26,010 sample stones with strong/ extremely strong blue fluorescence they obtained, they were unable to find enough that were cloudy in order to make such a study worthwhile.

If you would like to read GIA's article on fluorescence, I have linked it for you below.

http://lgdl.gia.edu/pdfs/W97_fluoresce.pdf

 

[Dreamer_D]

ate: 3/20/2010 3:17:34 PM
Author: Lorelei


As Sara stated above, GIA wanted to do a study on strong/ extremely strongly fluorescent diamonds which did display effects such as cloudiness, but out of the 26,010 sample stones with strong/ extremely strong blue fluorescence they obtained, they were unable to find enough that were cloudy in order to make such a study worthwhile.

If you would like to read GIA''s article on fluorescence, I have linked it for you here.

This seems conclusive to me. In the face of such empirical evidence it seems foolish to argue that cloudiness is of concern with this diamond.