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B&M Concern-What now?

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corbin801

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Dec 30, 2009
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I''m a few months away from reaching my savings goal and purchasing a ring. I decided today to stop by four jewelers, decide by random by my phone, two mom and pop and two big name B&M''s.

The first big named B&M miss represented there AGS0 diamonds as AGS000''s. Way overpriced! The second large named diamond dealer insisted on matching a diamond to my price range. 1.25, I, SI2, GIA Ex for tweleve thousand dollars and that was all I needed to see according to him, because that diamond will perform the best of all his diamonds at that price. O, and that was two grand over my price range.

Better luck with the mom and pop''s? The first place was pretty understocked and pushed me in the direction of diamond cuts that I wasn''t even close to interested in. I want a round brilliant, not a heart shaped or pear diamond. Stop bringing them out for me to look at. The last lady I visited showed me diamonds with the dimensions written on the case and couldn''t provide any documentaion on them. I guess I''ll just take your word for it...NOT

Is this what i''m supposed to expect? OR did I just get a bad random sample?

The diamonds I saw today were overpriced crap. I know I''ll have better luck buying on line, but I want to get my eyes on alot of different diamonds. I want to find out exactly what I like. Any suggestions on getting better luck with B&M''s? Also, has anyone had experience in traveling to any of the on-line vendors on pricescope to personally look at there diamonds? I wouldn''t mind spending a few bucks and flying to a vendor, If it meant I could get or atleast identify exactly what I want. Is this to extreme?
 

Dreamer_D

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Dec 16, 2007
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AGS000 means that it is ideal for cut, polish, and summetry, like a GIA tripple Ex. No misrepresentation there.

Jared''s carries a peerless line that can show you what an ideal cut looks like. As for price, you most likely won''t find better at a B&M than you will find at a PS recommended vendor.

If you like in NY or Huston you could visit Good Old Gold or Whiteflahs or Brian Gavin Diamonds perhaps. You really don''t need to fly out though. Go to Tiffany''s and a Hearts on Fire dealer, that is enough to see what well cut diamonds look like. All the PS vendors have liberal return policies so the stones can come to you, not the other way around
4.gif
 

swingirl

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Apr 6, 2006
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5,667
Internet vendors that offer images plus great customer service can ease your fears about buying on the internet. Most jewelers don't offer images and have a smaller inventory in-house for you to look at.

This one is close to the one your local jeweler showed you.

1.225ct I SI1
 

HVVS

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
816
In this thread, https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/done-my-homework-still-need-help.134690/, I posted a the PS dimensions for a great cut RB, if that helps any. Those dimensions are posted in a lot of other threads, too. I just borrowed.

I bought a H&A RB (actually one and an upgrade) from Good Old Gold. There is definitely nothing to compare in any local stores here, except possibly the Hearts On Fire, which is a branded H&A. Maybe you can locate a HOF dealer near you and look at their H&A RBs in person. Someone on here called them "Wallets on Fire," lol.
 

IceExplorer

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Joined
Oct 23, 2009
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462
You''re basically a couple of months behind me. I was were you are right now in late Nov, early Dec.
It''s great you''re beginning the process without being rushed. You''re definitely going to be thankful you did when you get towards then end of your search.

I felt the same way you did about the B&M''s and I planned to fly to NYC to find somewhere to at least get some decent candidates to look at. I saw so many poor performing diamonds for extremely high prices (compared to online vendors). I also ran into numerous sales associates who didn''t seem to be overly knowledgeable or maybe they just weren''t willing to share their knowledge. I found myself either insulting or intimidating them by asking for more data (sarin, ASET, idealscope etc..). I have yet to find an associate that is willing to deal with an quasi-educated buyer. So, towards the end, I just went in and played dumb. Despite all of that, I managed to get to see numerous stones.

If you are just going in to look for quality diamonds, I found it best to not discuss budget or over inflate your budget so you are shopping within THEIR price ranges.

In the end I resolved myself to say what ever needed to be said to see the better diamond inventory. After all, I felt like they were saying whatever needed to be said to sell me one.

I decided against flying to NYC because it''s cheaper to have diamonds shipped for review for my final candidates (like you, I was going to fly there). I feel as though I''ve seen enough to understand and eliminate what I DON''T WANT. Out of all the diamonds I looked at there were many that were nice and yet much lower in specs than I am looking for. So, the final candidates will all be above those levels thus eliminating any concern.

Don''t get discouraged, keep seeking to understand and most of all, don''t be scared to ask questions!!

I think you are on the right track by trying to get your eyes tuned-in to match the knowledge you have.

Good luck with your search!!
 

Paul-Antwerp

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
2,859
Hi Corbin,

I am sorry for these bad experiences, but I guess that the result is also somewhat due to your random selection.

As a comparison, I have just googled a rather generic diamond-term, and of the four first links, three do not have any cut-information and the info on the fourth site is limited.

I would suggest that if you want to buy locally, you should still select which local business to visit by some online-research. It will likely improve the overall impression.

Live long,
 

corbin801

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2009
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9
*************************************************
Thanks for the
P: 1/26/2010 10:37:34 PM
swingirl

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 3,616
Last Post: 1/26/2010
Member Since: 4/6/2006
Find all posts | Pictures

Subscribe to this author Internet vendors that offer images plus great customer service can ease your fears about buying on the internet. Most jewelers don't offer images and have a smaller inventory in-house for you to look at.


This one is close to the one your local jeweler showed you.




1.225ct I SI1

Posted: 1/26/2010 10:37:34 PM

*****************************************


That is a much better stone than I was shown, at a much lower cost! I just want to be able to see a bunch of stones like that to notice the slight differences in depths that will change the way of the light performs and the way the diamond looks. |




 

corbin801

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2009
Messages
9
Date: 1/26/2010 10:50:20 PM
Author: IceExplorer
You''re basically a couple of months behind me. I was were you are right now in late Nov, early Dec.
It''s great you''re beginning the process without being rushed. You''re definitely going to be thankful you did when you get towards then end of your search.

I felt the same way you did about the B&M''s and I planned to fly to NYC to find somewhere to at least get some decent candidates to look at. I saw so many poor performing diamonds for extremely high prices (compared to online vendors). I also ran into numerous sales associates who didn''t seem to be overly knowledgeable or maybe they just weren''t willing to share their knowledge. I found myself either insulting or intimidating them by asking for more data (sarin, ASET, idealscope etc..). I have yet to find an associate that is willing to deal with an quasi-educated buyer. So, towards the end, I just went in and played dumb. Despite all of that, I managed to get to see numerous stones.

If you are just going in to look for quality diamonds, I found it best to not discuss budget or over inflate your budget so you are shopping within THEIR price ranges.

In the end I resolved myself to say what ever needed to be said to see the better diamond inventory. After all, I felt like they were saying whatever needed to be said to sell me one.

I decided against flying to NYC because it''s cheaper to have diamonds shipped for review for my final candidates (like you, I was going to fly there). I feel as though I''ve seen enough to understand and eliminate what I DON''T WANT. Out of all the diamonds I looked at there were many that were nice and yet much lower in specs than I am looking for. So, the final candidates will all be above those levels thus eliminating any concern.

Don''t get discouraged, keep seeking to understand and most of all, don''t be scared to ask questions!!

I think you are on the right track by trying to get your eyes tuned-in to match the knowledge you have.

Good luck with your search!!
Thank you,

You’re right though. I feel like I have to get upset or insult the diamonds they are making me look at to get anywhere and that just doesn''t make for a good atmosphere. I will try to wait out the B.S. sales pitches and try again with a new set of dealers. I like the Idea of over inflating my budget, to hit the stones I want to look at. NICE!

If you don''t mind me asking, Who shipped you the diamonds for review? And where they shipped to a local dealer or appraiser?
 

tonyc2387

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
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227
Date: 1/27/2010 9:14:52 AM
Author: corbin801
You''re right though. I feel like I have to get upset or insult the diamonds they are making me look at to get anywhere and that just doesn''t make for a good atmosphere.

This is definitely true... all their diamonds are the best you''ll ever see. But it''s a fine line... start calling all their diamonds for the crap they are, and they''re suddenly indignant and will never show you a stone again.

It *is* funny to watch them get all worked up though... If it makes you feel any better, I had one guy complement me on my $10 old navy collared shirt, which he thought buttered me up enough to try and sell me an uncerted diamond with "the regional manager''s" help. Never again will I be going near that chain.


As for AGS000, those are both valid definitions, depending on who you talk to. In general the ''00'' for ''D/IF'' is seen as slightly overkill around here, so AGS000 for ideal cut/polish/symmetry is more commonly used. Hope this helps
1.gif
 

ACN

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
71
To get the best idea of how the PS vendor diamonds would perform, go visit Tiffany & a Hearts on Fire dealer in your area. I visited the HOF dealer in my area and was able to compare the HOF vs. non-HOF and get an idea of what I liked and disliked. Once I knew what I wanted, it was simple finding the stone from a PS vendor, since for example a 2.0ct H/VS2 HOF from a B&M cost around $40-45k, while on PS, they cost around $20-30k.
 

enbcfsobe

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 17, 2007
Messages
1,154
If you just want to look at stones to see the differences in of what different colors/clarities/cut qualities look like in person, I would avoid giving them a budget. As you saw, that will lead them to bring out only those things they think they can sell you for that price -- which are not the things you want to see. If they won''t show you stones without a dollar figure, walk out. You''re probably not buying from them anyway. First look through a PS-recommended vendor website to get an idea of what you can get online for your actual budget. Ask to see stones that fall within similar ranges of carats/clarity/color but only those that are GIA Ex and AGS0. This doesn''t mean they will be fabulous according to PS standards but it eliminates a bunch of the bad eggs. Take a look at as many of them together as they''ll let you see, and get them to take you outside or into a room with natural light. Otherwise much of the "performance" you observe will be influcence by their super-duper lighting. Alternatively, order an Idealscope so you can see the light performance the way PS vendors show it on their sites. If there are some that you really like, write down the stats from the cert or ask them for a copy of it. Then come back to PS and compare prices. Hope that helps...
 

corbin801

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2009
Messages
9
Date: 1/27/2010 10:27:03 AM
Author: tonyc2387

Date: 1/27/2010 9:14:52 AM
Author: corbin801
You''re right though. I feel like I have to get upset or insult the diamonds they are making me look at to get anywhere and that just doesn''t make for a good atmosphere.

This is definitely true... all their diamonds are the best you''ll ever see. But it''s a fine line... start calling all their diamonds for the crap they are, and they''re suddenly indignant and will never show you a stone again.

It *is* funny to watch them get all worked up though... If it makes you feel any better, I had one guy complement me on my $10 old navy collared shirt, which he thought buttered me up enough to try and sell me an uncerted diamond with ''the regional manager''s'' help. Never again will I be going near that chain.


As for AGS000, those are both valid definitions, depending on who you talk to. In general the ''00'' for ''D/IF'' is seen as slightly overkill around here, so AGS000 for ideal cut/polish/symmetry is more commonly used. Hope this helps
1.gif

I absolutely agree that D/If is overkill. I just wanted to see what a "Perfect Diamond" looked like. This is the first time I''ve ever looked at, much less studied diamonds. Might as well see what all the Hoopla is about on the flawless side, but It will be a G/H, SI1, AGS 0 cut diamond for me.

Thanks for the reply.
 

MichelleCarmen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 8, 2003
Messages
15,880
Date: 1/26/2010 10:29:11 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
AGS000 means that it is ideal for cut, polish, and summetry, like a GIA tripple Ex. No misrepresentation there.

Jared's carries a peerless line that can show you what an ideal cut looks like. As for price, you most likely won't find better at a B&M than you will find at a PS recommended vendor.

If you like in NY or Huston you could visit Good Old Gold or Whiteflahs or Brian Gavin Diamonds perhaps. You really don't need to fly out though. Go to Tiffany's and a Hearts on Fire dealer, that is enough to see what well cut diamonds look like. All the PS vendors have liberal return policies so the stones can come to you, not the other way around
4.gif
Jared's does have their peerless line, as Dreamer suggested, and they're a good place to check out well-cut diamonds. Just be prepared that even though their sales staff is trained to know the difference between the peerless and other lower quality cuts, that doesn't necessarily mean they follow their own knowlegde. When I told them what I was looking for and told them I had found one stone online for a specific amount, rather than price match, the gal said I should go down in cut quality and it wouldn't matter that much (she said very good cut and ideal are basically the same, so it didn't matter that the very good cut cost MORE than the ideal AGS I had found) and she also tried to convince me that an I1 is just as good as a SI1.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,852
Date: 1/27/2010 11:54:40 AM
Author: corbin801


I absolutely agree that D/If is overkill. I just wanted to see what a ''Perfect Diamond'' looked like. This is the first time I''ve ever looked at, much less studied diamonds. Might as well see what all the Hoopla is about on the flawless side, but It will be a G/H, SI1, AGS 0 cut diamond for me.

Thanks for the reply.
love that combo.
36.gif
 

tonyc2387

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
Messages
227
Date: 1/27/2010 11:54:40 AM
I just wanted to see what a ''Perfect Diamond'' looked like.
...
Thanks for the reply.

For a diamond already set in a ring and in a store, same as an F/VS2?
2.gif
No problem!

+1 DF, great combo.
 
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