My head is spinning!

[researcher]

Hi, Everyone!
I have been reading your postings for the past two weeks in an effort to absorb as much as possible about princess cut diamonds and greatly appreciate the knowledge I've acquired. At this time though I'm still a bit confused regarding what to look for in princess cut diamonds. According to my research, the best princess cut diamonds should have gradings of:

cut (1A-2B) (depth 58%-80%, table 58%-78%)
color (D-H)
clarity (FL-VS2)
symmetry (EX-G)
polish (EX-G)

I am hoping to get a 2.0-2.99 ct diamond, and am therefore wondering how much each of the above properties will effect the brilliance, fire, and scintillation.

For instance, will non-experts see a noticeable difference between the above gradings once the diamond is set (e.g., color of D vs. H)? Is it more important to find an "ideal" cut "H" color or a "premium" cut E color? The reason I'm asking is I've found diamonds such as follows:

Cut: 2B (77.8, 77)
Color: E
Carat: 2.36
Clarity: VS2
Polish: EX
Symm: Good

Cut: 1A
Color: G
Carat: 2.09
Clarity: VS2
Polish: EX
Symm: VG

Cut: 1B (73.3, 72)
Color: H
Carat: 2.68
Clarity: VS2
Polish: VG
Symm: VG

None have a culet or flourescence, and all were graded by the GIA. The cost is only about $600 difference (the first being more expensive). I was just wondering because I like the idea of getting a better cut diamond (especially because it has better symmetry and as a plus is also larger), but don't know how much of a difference color will make at this size.

Thanks for your consideration and all your help!!!

 

[Nicrez]

Well done researcher and welcome to PS!

I personally would want to see these three together with my own eyes...Shaped stones always have less precision when cut, so even the 1A, 1B, and 2A may look different.

i couldn't make a choice further than the 1A, based on wanting the most efficient cut, but what are the price points? Which are the better buys? Do you want size? I saw the G as a great compromise, but that doesn't automatically eliminate the H...The E could be lovely, but I would still want to see them all together.

Is that possible for you? Are they local or internet? Same vendor?

I think the E would most likely have the highest price, as size and cut are great. VS2's are excellent and the best bargain for those who don't want to see any visual imperfections (without carrying a loupe!) and so you did good!

Tell us more about the stones like their depths and tables, and such, because it's important to me to see that the table percent is slightly lower than the depth to allow the stone fire and a good look...Just my $.02...

 

[researcher]

Wow! Thanks for getting back to me so quickly! Here are the specs more in depth:

Cut: 2B (Depth: 77.8, Table: 77, Ratio: 1.05, Girdle: M-STK)
Color: E
Carat: 2.36
Clarity: VS2
Polish: EX
Symm: Good
Cost: $16355

Cut: 1A (Depth: 69.3, Table: 62, Ratio: 1.13, Girdle: STK)
Color: G
Carat: 2.09
Clarity: VS2
Polish: EX
Symm: VG
Cost: $17,028 (with Tiffany setting)

Cut: 1B (Depth: 73.3, Table: 72, Ratio: 1.04, Girdle: TN-STK)
Color: H
Carat: 2.68
Clarity: VS2
Polish: VG
Symm: VG
Cost: $16342

These diamonds are all from internet vendors so I need to somewhat make a blind decision. At this time I actually have a spreadsheet with 30 diamonds on it that all fit into the gradings I listed in my previous message. The prices range from $11,399 for an H 2.03 VS2 to $18,334 for an H 2.19 IF. I haven't been able to calculate all of the cut grades yet because I'm waiting on crown height information, but so far I haven't come across any diamonds with crowns under 8%. It's therefore difficult to decide on the proper stone. I want to get a great quality diamond, but I don't want my boyfriend to go broke in the process (my limit is $18,500 but I would prefer to stay below $16500). BTW, I don't know if this helps, but my ring size is a 4.5 so diamonds tend to look larger on me

Thanks for all your help! Oh, and if anyone is interested in my spreadsheet once we've selected our diamond I'll be happy to pass it along!

 

[Nicrez]

Well, what I noticed instantly is that the one i like the most is VERY VERY rectangular...is this what you are looking for?

They all seem to be rectangular. The closest to a square is the H. The G is TOO rectangular for a princess, in my opinion, but maybe not yours...?

Also, the first one has a table and depth that are almost equal. I would have preferred a slightly lower table than depth, to make sure the optics are optimized, and the angles are best for Fire, Brilliance and Scintillation...

The third stone has a better ratio, BUT the girdle is too varied from Thin to Thick, which makes me nervous. That shows sloppiness of cutt (IMHO) and also can be dangerous for the stone when set for chipped edges and corners! The second one would have been the winner, if it was at least a 1.04 ratio...

Frankly, I am not excited about any of these...But that's just my opinion. Honestly, it's a toss up of which one I could pick if I had to, but i am not going to recommend any of them...

Have you checked out the optics on some of the stone on the Good Old Gold.com website? Just for reference...?

 

[alexah]

Hi Researcher

I agree with what Nicrez said about the stones posted above...
I found two alternative stones that you might like to check into?
They're SI1's but if they're eye-clean (you can ask the vendors), they seem pretty good...

First one from Engagementringsdirect.com -
Lot Number: 2385941 Price: $13110.61 Laboratory: GIA Carat Weight: 2.24 Color: G. Clarity: SI1. Shape: Princess Depth: 72.9 Table: 68.00 Polish: VG Symmetry: G Culet: N Girdle: TN-STK Fluorescence: N Measurements: 7.08X7.09X5.17.

Second from Whiteflash.com -
Item Code: 2415096 Price: $14,020.00 Report: GIA Shape: Princess Carat: 2.51 Color: H Clarity: SI1 Depth: 74.6 Table: 71 Girdle: M-SLTK Polish: Very Good Symmetry: Good Culet: None Fluorescence: No Measurements: 7.48-7.28X5.43 Length/Width: 1.03

Good luck with your search!

 

[Hest88]

Table and depth are not enough with which to evaluate a princess cut. If you're looking at the AGA charts you probably see that they also contain such things as crown height, which is very important if you are evaluating light return. Also, with fancy shapes you can't always rely on the numbers, but if you can get a Sarin on the stones it would help.

 

[researcher]

That's what I was afraid of--they meet the "criteria" for good diamonds, but my understanding is that doesn't necessarily mean much unless the numbers match up. As for the ratio, I would like to keep in the 1.0-1.02 range if possible but am willing to go to a 1.05. I honestly just posted those 3 diamonds to gauge everyone's perceptions of what balance is needed to achieve the best diamonds. What are your thoughts on:

Cut: 1A (Depth: 70.7, Table: 66, Ratio: 1.03, Girdle: TN-STK)
Color: G
Carat: 2.21
Clarity: VS2
Polish: VG
Symm: VG
Cost: $15300

Cut: 1A (Depth: 73.9, Table: 72, Ratio: 1.02, Girdle: Mp)
Color: H
Carat: 2.67
Clarity: VS1
Polish: G
Symm: VG
Crown: 11%
Pavilion: 60%
Cost: $14294

Cut: 2A (Depth: 71.8, Table: 67, Ratio: 1.02, Girdle: TN-TK)
Color: H
Carat: 2.49
Clarity: VS2
Polish: VG
Symm: G
Cost: $16013

Cut: 1A (Depth: 74.2, Table: 74, Ratio: 1.01, Girdle: M-TK)
Color: H
Carat: 2.53
Clarity: VVS2
Polish: VG
Symm: G
Cost: $16916

I've tried looking at the optic pics but, honestly, I don't really know what I'm looking for. I was hoping to get a better idea of the properties to look for before I set out to examine light leak reports, sarin reports, etc. on my top 5 diamonds.

Thanks again for all your assistance! You're saving me TONS of time!

 

[researcher]

You're so sweet! Thank you so much for your suggestions! I really appreciate your help!

 

[alexah]

...and then there's this nice-sounding 2.21 G VS2 good old gold stone...

http://www.goodoldgold.com/princess_2_21ct_g_vs2.htm

Edited to add:
1 more (from dirtcheapdiamonds.com) -

http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=2212101

Stock Number: 2212101
Laboratory: GIA
Carat Weight: 2.2
Color: G
Clarity: VS1
Shape: Princess
Depth: 67.5%
Table: 66%
Polish: EX
Symmetry: VG
Culet: N
Girdle: TN-M
Fluorescence: Medium
Measurements: 7.41x7.21x4.87

 

[researcher]

Thanks for your response

I'm working on getting the Sarin reports for some of the diamonds, but decided I should have a good foundation to work from before I go collecting 30 reports. What I've found from looking at local jewelry stores is that the table doesn't seem to effect the overall look of the diamond as much as depth, except when the table was significantly larger than the depth (e.g., 80 table with 73 depth). Is that correct or am I way off base?

 

[researcher]

Thanks for the tip! I actually have that one on my spreadsheet, so it's nice to know I hit the mark with at least one!

 

[moremoremore]

I just wanted to add that the 2.21 G Vs2 stone was purchased by GOG and is now listed on their site (about 1000 more

)

ALso, I can't get on the site now, but the 69.3 depth, 62 table stone is supposedly owned by excellentdiamondcutters.com in NYC. It's listed there for under about 14800 I think. That must be SOME band for a total of over 17000!

 

[moremoremore]

actually, the 69.3, 62 table is on abazias for the cheapest at 14,300. Who on earth gave you a quote of nearly three grand more? (don't answer that

).... But even if it's a plat band, that's high...even if they have some awesome policies....

 

[moremoremore]

sorry- to clarify- the Dirt cheap and GOG stone is the same stone!

 

[researcher]

Thanks for letting me know about the 2.21 G Vs2 stone--guess I need to move faster! I can't believe that the same stone is listed for so much less! Finding the best stone at the best price is so difficult! Maybe it's time I pass this research stuff along to my boyfriend....

 

[researcher]

I should have clarified--it's a setting with 1.0 ctw channel set stones. Still sounds like it's a bad deal, but not so bad

 

[moremoremore]

not so bad!

.... I have to say that the 69.3, 62 looks amazing by the #s. Excellentdiamondcutters told me they owned it a while back....you never know though....especially since it's being offered elsewhere cheaper..?.. But I love rectangular princess stones...provided there is no bow-tie...but I must say that that sounds like an amazing stone!

Best of luck to ya!

 

[researcher]

I hate to admit it, but I'm still a little lost. I was wondering if someone could help me out by giving their opinions on the following diamonds (some of which I posted earlier but have not yet received any guidance). I just want to better understand why they are/aren't good purchases. Your assistance is much appreciated!

Cut: 1A (Depth: 70.7, Table: 66, Ratio: 1.03, Girdle: TN-STK)
Color: G
Carat: 2.21
Clarity: VS2
Polish: VG
Symm: VG
Cost: $15300

Cut: 1A (Depth: 73.9, Table: 72, Ratio: 1.02, Girdle: Mp)
Color: H
Carat: 2.67
Clarity: VS1
Polish: G
Symm: VG
Crown: 11%
Pavilion: 60%
Cost: $14294

Cut: 2B (Depth: 63.1, Table: 72, Ratio: 1.03, Girdle: M)
Color: H
Carat: 2.61
Clarity: VS2
Polish: VG
Symm: VG
Crown: 6%
Pavilion: 56%
Cost: $14771

Cut: 2A (Depth: 70.2, Table: 74, Ratio: 1.01, Girdle: TN-M)
Color: H
Carat: 2.55
Clarity: VS1
Polish: G
Symm: G
Crown: 8%
Pavilion: 61%
Cost: $15160

Cut: 2A (Depth: 71.8, Table: 67, Ratio: 1.02, Girdle: TN-TK)
Color: H
Carat: 2.49
Clarity: VS2
Polish: VG
Symm: G
Cost: $16013

Cut: 1A (Depth: 74.2, Table: 74, Ratio: 1.01, Girdle: M-TK)
Color: H
Carat: 2.53
Clarity: VVS2
Polish: VG
Symm: G
Cost: $16916

 

[valeria101]

It's obvious these numbers have already been reserached to death. If you are after a brilliant princess cut than the final selection will have to be made on this criteria and nothing else...

I can surely understand the title of this post! It is not worth getting a headache trying to 'what if' about information that the respective numbers simply DO NOT contain (prediction of brilliance that is).

 

[moremoremore]

I wanted to add that re: the 2.21, the GOG price is higher...but of course it is....they do a lot more than just drop ship....and you get 100% upgrades....so in my opinion, if you can swing it, the extra cost is worth it....

And Valeria- amen to that! I have given up..... I will be having a jeweler get me two or three stones off of the internet...and I will keep my fingers crossed....there is NO way to tell....You know, that's why sometimes, it's good to consider an EGL.... at least you get crown info on the certs!